Tony Dungy weighs in on officiating

The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

Try explaining the BS call on Baker vs Amari Cooper now...

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

Well, somebody had to have that opinion I guess you're it!

👆🏽

Point to 90 cal comment lmao!!

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

Ageed

was not a penalty. Any Giant fan crying about this can't see the trees from the forest regarding this team. The call on Baker was bullshit too. The over officiating of PI is helping to ruin the games.

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

No way that was the right call. He clearly hit EE in the back prior to the ball arriving and it clearly affected his ability to catch it. He didnt just reach over he hit him in the back. He was not playing the ball, he was playing to jar the ball loose and arrived too early. It was much more pass interference than what was called on Baker.

Why have review if you are not going to let things be overturned unless it is a clear mugging? in preseason they made up think that calls would be overturned by the call on ballentine. but reality is that same call is not being made in the real games, its a joke.

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

Technically?

98%??

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time

what? so engram gets position in between the defender and the ball but it's ok for the guy to go through him a second before the ball arrives. in what universe is that not PI?

can both suck. They aren't mutually exclusive. And that's 100% PI on the Engram play and it wasn't even close. Even if you want to claim they're "letting the defenders play" or some BS, that just makes the ensuing call against Baker 10x worst.

In comment 14665565 rocco8112 said:

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In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said: Quote: The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time Ageed was not a penalty. Any Giant fan crying about this can't see the trees from the forest regarding this team. The call on Baker was bullshit too. The over officiating of PI is helping to ruin the games.

So there's the problem.

The Giants were wronged, but the mechanism to correct it doesn't work either.

Either call both, or neither.

Dungy is correct.

this wasn't even a borderline one, he had no chance of catching the ball.

In comment 14665575 peteschweaty said:

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In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said: Quote: The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time what? so engram gets position in between the defender and the ball but it's ok for the guy to go through him a second before the ball arrives. in what universe is that not PI?

In thr olden days, if you were making a play on the ball you could have some contact from behind the receiver. It is called defense. I liked how they let them play last night, until that fucking bullshit call on Baker on a 3rd down. Brutal call, but crying about the Engram call is brutal too. Giants would have lost anyway so who cares.

The Giants need to build a real team before crying about the officials. Shurmur is grasping at anything to deflect blame as the team circles the drain to a three win season.

we got hosed last week on that as well.

In comment 14665589 rocco8112 said:

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In comment 14665575 peteschweaty said: Quote: In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said: Quote: The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time what? so engram gets position in between the defender and the ball but it's ok for the guy to go through him a second before the ball arrives. in what universe is that not PI? In thr olden days, if you were making a play on the ball you could have some contact from behind the receiver. It is called defense. I liked how they let them play last night, until that fucking bullshit call on Baker on a 3rd down. Brutal call, but crying about the Engram call is brutal too. Giants would have lost anyway so who cares. The Giants need to build a real team before crying about the officials. Shurmur is grasping at anything to deflect blame as the team circles the drain to a three win season.

You might be right, except the ref in the both said it was clearly PI, thought it had a chance to be overturned until somebody whispered in his ear. So, no it was PI.

Now, Bakers was not PI and even the ref in the both said it was not, in fact if you watch, Cooper actually uses a straight arm to separate and that is the very definition used by NFL to call PI, so technically it was OPI...

but it was technically PI. There's no technically. There is or there isn't. And it is. So, even if it's never called, it cannot, by definition, be right.

Such a stupid take.

the Baker thing was bullshit..

In comment 14665553 90.Cal said:

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In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said: Quote: The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time Try explaining the BS call on Baker vs Amari Cooper now...

Exactly -not saying the Giants would have won, they would have but it would have changed the complexion of the game.

You could argue about the EE one. He got there early but didn�t exactly drill him. The ball could have been caught. However, you can�t let that go and then on the next possession call hand checking that had as little or even less impact on a 3rd down for 20+ yards.

Decide if you will let them play, or call it tight. That decision can�t change play to play which is exactly what is happening now. Nobody who watches the NFL has any idea when or if PI will be called now because it seems almost random.

The officiating is way to involved in the outcome of the game.

There is no doubt the Engram was hit in the back BEFORE the ball got to his hands. It is obvious. The replay system SHOULD have reversed the call. That is Dungy's point.

Calling PI on Baker vs. Cooper was bad only because it wasn't as close to PI as the non call on Engram. At the end he kind of reached out to grab him, still not an obvious PI.

The inconsistency we are all witnessing is what is driving us crazy.

The ability for coaches to challenge PI will disappear this offseason.

as people exist who either don't know the rules or oblivious to what constitutes PI, the NFL will have a leg to stand on.

as this thread illustrates, idiots like that exist.

... I bought a new Fleetwood"

In comment 14665744 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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as people exist who either don't know the rules or oblivious to what constitutes PI, the NFL will have a leg to stand on. as this thread illustrates, idiots like that exist.

It's not even rules, it's logic. It was PI *and* the no call was the right call.

In comment 14665767 Paulie Walnuts said:

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... I bought a new Fleetwood"

haha

To me that is clearly PI. You can�t be playing the ball when your wrapping the receiver up. Nor can you be playing the ball by going through the receiver. That�s just BS.

In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said:

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The defender was playing the ball.

The defender had his arm around Engram and the ball hit him in the back. It was a shitty call.

Baker grabbed the jersey with his arm extended. Clear PI. Now did it affect the play? No. Would a top CB gotten away with it? Probably

But you are DeAndre Baker with a reputation for getting beaten and grabbing. That call ain�t going your way. So don�t grab. Especially when it is completely unnecessary

You are a tight end. Shield the ball with your body. You think the defender knocks that away from Witten? Not in a million years

Answer these questions. Is the ball anywhere in that frame? Is the defender already in contact with the receiver and playing through the receivers back? The answer to the first question is NO and the answer to the second question is YES. The obvious conclusion PI.

In comment 14666012 Vanzetti said:

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Baker grabbed the jersey with his arm extended. Clear PI. Now did it affect the play? No. Would a top CB gotten away with it? Probably But you are DeAndre Baker with a reputation for getting beaten and grabbing. That call ain�t going your way. So don�t grab. Especially when it is completely unnecessary

I don't know what you are watching, but Cooper pushed Baker with a straight arm, that is PI. Did baker do "hand checking" a little grab and go, yes. But Cooper was the one who reached back with a straight arm and created separation...

looking through blue colored spectacles?

Troy Aikman? Tony Dungy? Joe Tressitore? Booger McFarland? John Parry?

All long-time supporters of Big Blue, I'm guessing......

In comment 14666017 Vanzetti said:

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You are a tight end. Shield the ball with your body. You think the defender knocks that away from Witten? Not in a million years

If a DB come from 5 yards behind and plays through the TE's back? Yes the ball gets knocked away and Duh, Witten weighs 265, Engram 235.

actually knock a ball away from Witten without going through his back??

The takes get more and more moronic in an odd support that somehow a penalty everyone saw as one, wasn't a penalty. Technically it was......

In comment 14666090 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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looking through blue colored spectacles? Troy Aikman? Tony Dungy? Joe Tressitore? Booger McFarland? John Parry? All long-time supporters of Big Blue, I'm guessing......

Vanzetti has quickly become a disaster of a poster. Several long time posters have called him out recently but he just continues to baffle. I honestly think someone hacked his account. Otherwise, he�s got issues going on

All anyone says when this crap comes up is "this rule was put in place for the clear and obvious... this rule is to make sure the wrong team doesn't end up in the super bowl like last year."

But so many of the call that have not been called and then subsequently been overturned WERE clear and obvious pass interference, but you're saying that because this isn't the NFC Championship game, it therefore can't get overturned?

Engram got hit early. The defender got there early. If There have been a number of calls so far this year that were even more obvious than that and did not get overturned to be called PI. What would happen if this were the NFCCG and those calls don't get overturned?

If last night was the NFCCG I would feel pretty screwed as a fan, and same can be said for any number of other non-PI calls this year that were challenged and not overturned IF they had occurred in the NFCCG. Are they going to change the standard for what will get called PI when the playoffs come around? Or what will happen when a PI call is missed in the playoffs and they have to keep up this charade of not overturning obvious missed calls because that's what they did all regular season? There will be even more of a backlash because they will have had a chance to get it right with review and still ended up costing a team a playoff game because they have to remain consistent with the standards they set in the regular season. Or they will have to change the standards because "it's the playoffs" and the team that gets screwed by the overturned call will be left asking why did they overturn it in a big game but not 98% of the other times in the regular season? Either way it will be an even worse controversy.

What a mess.

"so many of the challenges this year that have been non-calls that were subsequently not* overturned WERE in fact clear and obvious pass interference"

Dungy said exactly what I was trying to say in a lot fewer words here:


Tony Dungy
‏Verified account @TonyDungy
4h4 hours ago

I agree. So what�s going to happen in the playoffs? Will they change the standard because all of America is watching or continue to let bad calls stand because of the precedent being set now?

In comment 14666088 section125 said:

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In comment 14666012 Vanzetti said: Quote: Baker grabbed the jersey with his arm extended. Clear PI. Now did it affect the play? No. Would a top CB gotten away with it? Probably But you are DeAndre Baker with a reputation for getting beaten and grabbing. That call ain�t going your way. So don�t grab. Especially when it is completely unnecessary I don't know what you are watching, but Cooper pushed Baker with a straight arm, that is PI. Did baker do "hand checking" a little grab and go, yes. But Cooper was the one who reached back with a straight arm and created separation...

Section I agree with everything you are saying. But they are never calling offensive PI on that play. So what you are asking is that the official ignore the PI on both sides and make a no call. But Baker grabbed the jersey with arm extended. It was not egregious but it was right in front of the ref. That�s getting called when you are DeAndre Baker

In comment 14665565 rocco8112 said:

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In comment 14665543 Vanzetti said: Quote: The defender was playing the ball. That picture only tells half the story. It was TECHNICALLY PI , but That�s a non call 98% of the time Ageed was not a penalty. Any Giant fan crying about this can't see the trees from the forest regarding this team. The call on Baker was bullshit too. The over officiating of PI is helping to ruin the games.

I think people just want it to be consistent, and if it's reviewable, then let that be consistent too. The fact that the NFL made it reviewable but not really is just asinine. Don't make it a PR stunt. If your goal is to defend your inept officials then come out and defend them! Don't pretend to throw them under the bus to allow for the pound of flesh and then go to great lengths to have that flesh be useless.

I don't disagree that it's incredibly frustrating to watch timeouts get pissed away - add it to the list of things that Shurmur just doesn't seem to learn from - but he has actually been right on most of these challenges if you're following the rules.

if they are going to keep it reviewable. Like, okay, normal ticky-tack hand-fighting and slight physicality that isn't OBVIOUS pass interference maybe shouldn't be overturned to be called PI. The DB is turned and playing the ball, if the offensive player is engaging in some "physicality" himself, these are the things they can look for and say it can't be overturned if they check this box and/or that box, sort of thing. But you can't just generally say "well it has to be soooooo bad, ya know? Like REALLY bad! AND it has to be like a super important game, ya know like where it's obvious everyone's gonna get really MAD!" You can't just say that and figure everything will turn out fine.

You need some sort of actual guidelines. For instance-- if the defender gets there early AND he comes through the back of the receiver (not from the side for instance where he actually has a legitimate chance of playing the football) then THAT should be one of those that they are allowed to overturn.

pt the rule in place, they knew it would lead to challenges in critical spots just to take a shot at getting a call, but in reality, the rule is serving to uphold some really terrible calls.

You simply cannot put a rule in place and enforce it randomly and then expect it to have an impact.

In comment 14666017 Vanzetti said:

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You are a tight end. Shield the ball with your body. You think the defender knocks that away from Witten? Not in a million years

JFC you are stupid and getting stupider by the day. That's the opposite of what's supposed to happen. Touching a receiver, any receiver with the ball in the air, catcheable or not is defensive holding. I have no idea wtf you are watching or thinking but I'm pretty sure circus music is constantly playing in your pea sized brain.

in fact, reverse it. NO CONTACT during the 1st 5 yards. After those 5, ANYTHING GOES.

In comment 14666012 Vanzetti said:

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Baker grabbed the jersey with his arm extended. Clear PI. Now did it affect the play? No. Would a top CB gotten away with it? Probably But you are DeAndre Baker with a reputation for getting beaten and grabbing. That call ain�t going your way. So don�t grab. Especially when it is completely unnecessary

What a horrendous take on reality

In comment 14666347 Joey in VA said:

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In comment 14666017 Vanzetti said: Quote: You are a tight end. Shield the ball with your body. You think the defender knocks that away from Witten? Not in a million years JFC you are stupid and getting stupider by the day. That's the opposite of what's supposed to happen. Touching a receiver, any receiver with the ball in the air, catcheable or not is defensive holding. I have no idea wtf you are watching or thinking but I'm pretty sure circus music is constantly playing in your pea sized brain.

LOL...Perfect