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Baldinger Analysis

EricJ : 11/5/2019 2:39 pm
I was watching some of his short video clips on Twitter. He points out quite a bit in various videos but this one really points out why we have a serious coaching problem.

It makes me wonder whether our OL really is THIS bad, or if it is a combination of their ability plus talent.

Baldinger's explanation here or a play near the goal line makes too much sense to be ignored.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1191702439998754816

Blocking - ( New Window )
26 could've also danced less too  
penkap75 : 11/5/2019 2:47 pm : link
I don't think he's fully healed.
Maybe at 100% he could do his dancing, but if just 90%, then just hit the hole and go.
I've been pondering the OL talent vs coaching/scheme question  
Chris684 : 11/5/2019 2:50 pm : link
since I realized Marshall Newhouse is starting for the Pats.

We've also had a number of guys come through here who've been better before and after they were here.

I'm beginning to wonder WTF we are doing wrong.
RE: 26 could've also danced less too  
allstarjim : 11/5/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14665659 penkap75 said:
Quote:
I don't think he's fully healed.
Maybe at 100% he could do his dancing, but if just 90%, then just hit the hole and go.


Yes at 0:24 on that first Baldy link, what is Saquon doing with that dance right there. There's green in front of him, he danced and allowed Bennett to get back into that play. Saquon has two good options here, he can just drive right up in that green in front of him and perhaps he gets to the endzone, or he can plant his foot and bounce outside to the right where he likely has a 1-1 vs a corner, and I like his chances there. Option 3 was what he did, which was dance in the running lane and allow a player on the ground to tackle him. Baldy makes a good point here but Saquon also flubbed that play.
RE: I've been pondering the OL talent vs coaching/scheme question  
Diver_Down : 11/5/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14665665 Chris684 said:
Quote:
since I realized Marshall Newhouse is starting for the Pats.

We've also had a number of guys come through here who've been better before and after they were here.

I'm beginning to wonder WTF we are doing wrong.


Hiring an OL coach that was sleeping on friend's coaches the year before. Everywhere he has coached, the OL was shit. When he was first hired, it was my first red flag with Shurmur and I wanted Shurmur originally. At the time, I was hoping that Hal was only retained until a better coach was brought in. I didn't want Hal to taint Will.
A fairly simple analysis  
aGiantGuy : 11/5/2019 3:00 pm : link
These are concepts that Iíve seen executed at the high school level by average OL coaches. I know they donít get as much practice time as they used to, but itís hard not to question the standard of football Mr. Shurmur is endorsing from his coaching staff and players.
fixable?  
richinpa : 11/5/2019 3:02 pm : link
Thats blocking scheme but also hard to practice this until they line up in the game?
so coaching it up would be the answer about knowing the better angles.

Really though how is engram going to figure out he goes and gets the safety and ellison gets big guy? they have to communicate which it seems they don't here . expereince I guess?

and saquan could have cut more to the right to hit the gap there . he needs to make a different run on that play too . seems he is not anytime to blame for running issues.
In high school  
cjac : 11/5/2019 3:06 pm : link
we could figure out blocking assignments based on how guys were lined up. Everyone knew what to do and who to block and line calls were made.

This team, these NY Giants, are just a very very poorly coached team.
RE: 26 could've also danced less too  
Gmen703 : 11/5/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14665659 penkap75 said:
Quote:
I don't think he's fully healed.
Maybe at 100% he could do his dancing, but if just 90%, then just hit the hole and go.


Possibly. He did look pretty fast on that screen pass however. Guess change of direction could be an issue.
RE: fixable?  
aGiantGuy : 11/5/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14665694 richinpa said:
Quote:
Thats blocking scheme but also hard to practice this until they line up in the game?
so coaching it up would be the answer about knowing the better angles.

Really though how is engram going to figure out he goes and gets the safety and ellison gets big guy? they have to communicate which it seems they don't here . expereince I guess?

and saquan could have cut more to the right to hit the gap there . he needs to make a different run on that play too . seems he is not anytime to blame for running issues.


They practice the switch blocks in practice. When they get into the game itís a matter of reading the defenseís alignment when you get to the line. Then they can make a line call between themselves to make the switch. Again, Iíve seen this done in hs football. The Giants just make it seem harder than it is.
Goes back to what I always look for  
djm : 11/5/2019 3:14 pm : link
How many times do we see nyg WRs running free in the secondary. How many times does the nyg RB have a huge hole and easy yards to gain. How many times do we see a well designed play fooling the opposition? Better yet, how easy do things look for this offense? I know thereís talent issues but at some point the HC has to make things easier on the offense.
It does seem...  
Dan in the Springs : 11/5/2019 3:15 pm : link
like players everywhere are uncertain about their responsibilities. Then there's the question of making plays.
Nobody on this team  
phil in arizona : 11/5/2019 3:36 pm : link
knows what they are doing.

RE: RE: 26 could've also danced less too  
allstarjim : 11/5/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14665704 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
In comment 14665659 penkap75 said:


Quote:


I don't think he's fully healed.
Maybe at 100% he could do his dancing, but if just 90%, then just hit the hole and go.



Possibly. He did look pretty fast on that screen pass however. Guess change of direction could be an issue.


Yes, the speed is there, I don't think he's as explosive or as powerful in his cuts. When you have an ankle that isn't all the way back, I absolutely do feel he's not breaking as many tackles because he can't plant and drive using all of his power in that lower half because of the ankle.

One more game until the bye week, and hopefully the extra week of rest will help. But I suspect that he's going to need much longer than that, so he might not be back to himself until 2020.
I donít follow other teams that closely  
mattlawson : 11/5/2019 3:43 pm : link
Are there multiple TE sets that make those blocks routinely?
Shitty coaching  
Rflairr : 11/5/2019 4:14 pm : link
This OL coach has never coached a good OL in his career. And was out of the league until this clown Shurmur got hired
RE: 26 could've also danced less too  
Gman11 : 11/5/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14665659 penkap75 said:
Quote:
I don't think he's fully healed.


It looks like if he takes that outside he scores untouched.
Giants are one of the richest  
Metnut : 11/5/2019 4:25 pm : link
teams in the league. There's no excuse for us not to have the best assistants, coaches, and analysts, given that there's no salary cap in place for these positions. It's embarrassing that this current cast of characters is running things.
Eli is the common denominator  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/5/2019 4:27 pm : link
you dont need an oline, WRs or TE with a mobile QB -bbi
This all starts with the fact that Engram is not a blocker  
mikeinbloomfield : 11/5/2019 4:35 pm : link
he can't do half the position's job. Putting him inside of Ellison maybe give away to the defense that it's a run, but how about worrying whether Engram should be blocking one of the better DEs in our division when you know blocking isn't his strong suit.

Blaming Barkley seems silly when he's just trying to make something out a play where the Giants don't do their blocking assignments.
RE: RE: I've been pondering the OL talent vs coaching/scheme question  
Section331 : 11/5/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14665690 Diver_Down said:
Quote:

Hiring an OL coach that was sleeping on friend's coaches the year before. Everywhere he has coached, the OL was shit. When he was first hired, it was my first red flag with Shurmur and I wanted Shurmur originally. At the time, I was hoping that Hal was only retained until a better coach was brought in. I didn't want Hal to taint Will.


It's almost a certainty that Callahan will be shitcanned in DC, I'd hire him in a heartbeat. He is a terrific OL coach. The problem is, he probably wants to be an OC. No thanks to that.
Hal Hunter is just an awful OL coach  
Jay on the Island : 11/5/2019 4:39 pm : link
In one of his recent game recaps Sy mentioned that part of Solder's struggles were due to poor technique. How does an experienced OT all of a sudden have issues with technique? How has Hunter not corrected this issue? Why hasn't a single offensive linemen shown improvement over the past two years?
RE: RE: RE: I've been pondering the OL talent vs coaching/scheme question  
Jay on the Island : 11/5/2019 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14665881 Section331 said:
Quote:

It's almost a certainty that Callahan will be shitcanned in DC, I'd hire him in a heartbeat. He is a terrific OL coach. The problem is, he probably wants to be an OC. No thanks to that.

I've been advocating for Callahan as well. He won't get an OC job but we could lure him here with an OL coach/Assistant HC title. He's done a good job with that OL coach considering the talent he's had to work with.
Played O-Line for many years  
BlueHurricane : 11/5/2019 4:42 pm : link
Baldinger is 100% correct. A scoop block as we used to call would have been a much better option in that alignment.

That wasn't even a combo block. If they were attacking that alignment using the same technique Ellison should have gotten more of a hit on Bennett before going to the next level. That in itself proves it to be a bad scheme because Ellison lending that hand to Engram with where Bennett was lined up is not an easy task and most likely allows Heath a much better shot at the play.

This is annoying as all hell.
I've pointed out a bunch of shit in our pass game schematically that  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/5/2019 4:48 pm : link
doesn't make sense. Now we got Baldy pointing out shit in blocking assignments that doesn't. Pat Shurmur is so far over his head. This guy scammed his way to HC jobs twice.
RE: Played O-Line for many years  
aGiantGuy : 11/5/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14665894 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
Baldinger is 100% correct. A scoop block as we used to call would have been a much better option in that alignment.

That wasn't even a combo block. If they were attacking that alignment using the same technique Ellison should have gotten more of a hit on Bennett before going to the next level. That in itself proves it to be a bad scheme because Ellison lending that hand to Engram with where Bennett was lined up is not an easy task and most likely allows Heath a much better shot at the play.

This is annoying as all hell.


Spot on, it might be the TE coach more in play here. But the scheme itself just isnít fitting the teams talents. Where are the outside zone plays???
The commentator was harping all night that we needed to get Saquon in space, why is this so hard for us to do? Can we just steal the Saints playcalls for Kamara and go from there?
RE: RE: 26 could've also danced less too  
.McL. : 11/5/2019 5:05 pm : link
In comment 14665685 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14665659 penkap75 said:


Quote:


I don't think he's fully healed.
Maybe at 100% he could do his dancing, but if just 90%, then just hit the hole and go.



Yes at 0:24 on that first Baldy link, what is Saquon doing with that dance right there. There's green in front of him, he danced and allowed Bennett to get back into that play. Saquon has two good options here, he can just drive right up in that green in front of him and perhaps he gets to the endzone, or he can plant his foot and bounce outside to the right where he likely has a 1-1 vs a corner, and I like his chances there. Option 3 was what he did, which was dance in the running lane and allow a player on the ground to tackle him. Baldy makes a good point here but Saquon also flubbed that play.

I agree with you this time jim...

The blocking wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible either. Barkley has to make more of that play.
interesting that  
Jay in Toronto : 11/5/2019 5:08 pm : link
Shurmer was a C as a collegiate.
OL played well  
bc4life : 11/5/2019 5:14 pm : link
second half opf last season - youb think Hunter just forgot how to coach?
RE: OL played well  
Diver_Down : 11/5/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14665948 bc4life said:
Quote:
second half opf last season - youb think Hunter just forgot how to coach?


You have to factor in how abysmal Flowers | Omameh/Greco was. 2nd half of the season, and Will is making less rookie mistakes. Jamon was actually competent. Solder was hurt early in the season and was likely feeling better. And while Spencer sucks, he was a huge improvement over Greco. Wheeler sucked, but he gave great effort.

All of that isn't a credit or discredit to coaching. It is just a matter of incrementally improving the talent at each position in which case it shows an improvement from the 1st to the 2nd half.
Perfect example of why Engram isn't really a TE  
BillT : 11/5/2019 5:38 pm : link
Do you think if you replace Engram with an average 6'5" 260lb TE that Bennett tosses him aside like he did with Engram. Sure, there is a work around but this is why Engram both gives and takes away.
Do the TE and OL meet together?  
George from PA : 11/5/2019 5:52 pm : link
I remember reading that the TEs and OL do not meet together....

Shouldn't they?
RE: RE: 26 could've also danced less too  
nzyme : 11/5/2019 6:05 pm : link
In comment 14665704 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
In comment 14665659 penkap75 said:


Quote:


I don't think he's fully healed.
Maybe at 100% he could do his dancing, but if just 90%, then just hit the hole and go.



Possibly. He did look pretty fast on that screen pass however. Guess change of direction could be an issue.


I know he looked fast but you can see that he's slightly galloping which means he's still not planting on that leg fully. Credit to him for not making excuses.
RE: Perfect example of why Engram isn't really a TE  
Diver_Down : 11/5/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14665975 BillT said:
Quote:
Do you think if you replace Engram with an average 6'5" 260lb TE that Bennett tosses him aside like he did with Engram. Sure, there is a work around but this is why Engram both gives and takes away.


And this just emphasizes the points brought up in the Evan Engram thread earlier today. Despite his best effort, he is not a blocking TE. He really is a one dimensional player - a pass catching TE.
RE: I donít follow other teams that closely  
GoDeep13 : 11/5/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14665791 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Are there multiple TE sets that make those blocks routinely?
Watch the Ravens play. They employ a lot of 2 and 3 TE sets. All their TEs can block and Hurst and Andrews are quality receiving threats too.
The OL has been playing together for the entire season but donít seem  
Ivan15 : 11/5/2019 7:01 pm : link
to get even marginally better.
RE: RE: Perfect example of why Engram isn't really a TE  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/5/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14666007 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14665975 BillT said:


Quote:


Do you think if you replace Engram with an average 6'5" 260lb TE that Bennett tosses him aside like he did with Engram. Sure, there is a work around but this is why Engram both gives and takes away.



And this just emphasizes the points brought up in the Evan Engram thread earlier today. Despite his best effort, he is not a blocking TE. He really is a one dimensional player - a pass catching TE.

With iffy hands. Thanks Reese.
I know nothing about play calling but  
twostepgiants : 11/5/2019 8:06 pm : link
Why would you design the play to be run behind the two TEs who are expected to block Michael Bennett and a LB?

That doesnít seem to be a recipe for success
RE: Eli is the common denominator  
Thunderstruck27 : 11/5/2019 10:10 pm : link
In comment 14665856 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
you dont need an oline, WRs or TE with a mobile QB -bbi


The only problem with this statement is that Eli is such a huge cap hit, none of those problems could be addressed this offseason.
Terrible job by Saquon  
Vanzetti : 11/5/2019 10:42 pm : link
He sat in the hole dancing waiting for the Cowboys to come off their blocks.

Itís like Tiki said, you gotta know when to take what the defense gives you
Not a very good run from SB  
Bluesbreaker : 11/5/2019 11:16 pm : link
I like Baldy great listen and fun too .
Sounds logical but Engram is below average blocker
he doesn't have the frame for it .
I hope they just fire the Shurmur and the staff .
The only area thats been decent is specials
Man On Man  
Dragon : 11/5/2019 11:21 pm : link
Itís the way you win in the game of football, itís been been that way since the beginning. Engram how long has he been in the league and still canít block a DE one on one. Baker is proving what was questioned about him game speed there are no slow WRís in the NFL. To add to this problem he is not ready for full time it seems not knowing the defensive call. Iím not a Tuna or Coughlin fan at all but both would have benched him long ago. The OL has no fire in their bellies we canít move anyone off the line of scrimmage game after game.

Jones is learning everyone keeps saying but his turnovers average keeps rising. You can blame everybody from the owner to the water boy but itís not getting any better at all. Trade deadline came and went we kept all our vets with even a 5th round value or more why because we are building a winning team with what glass mirrors. I watch this team play with no ability to adjust to the game or provide different plays to make others adjust itís the same thing as before just different players.

Love the Giants but why in the name of God are we not finding out what we have in our young players the others are a past hopes and daily failures. Wake these players up cut 10 or 20 of them it canít be any worse then what we are seeing. Coaches can be fired also the season is done letís really look to the future and not keep believing we can win with these guys.
first mistake was having EE  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11/6/2019 12:07 pm : link
try to block Bennett at the goaline...just really stupid!! Bring in a 6th OL.

SB did notjhing wrong there, he had to try and create on his own because Bennett blew up EE.
'I realized Marshall Newhouse is starting for the Pats'  
Torrag : 11/6/2019 12:47 pm : link
Not very well. Pats are having a mediocre offensive season by their standards. The O-line is why. They're well coached and better at covering up their weakness but newhouse is still bad.
first mistake was having EE  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11/6/2019 1:56 pm : link
try to block Bennett at the goaline...just really stupid!! Bring in a 6th OL.

SB did notjhing wrong there, he had to try and create on his own because Bennett blew up EE.
Details matter  
Mattman : 11/6/2019 2:01 pm : link
Coughlin was the master of preparing his players with all small details. BB sees things no one else does.
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