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Shurmur poll. Keep him or ditch him

blueblood'11 : 11/6/2019 8:00 am
My son and I have been having this debate and personally I do not think this team will win under this head coach. He may be a good coordinator but it sure as hell is not translating into a competent head coach.

I realize Jones is a rookie QB but overall this team has gotten worse not better. Shurmur's in game decisions at times are head scratching, he does not appear to be a very good game manager, and doesn't seem to know how to utilize Barkley.

My son's biggest concern is starting over again with a new system and is afraid it will stunt the growth of Jones or screw him up like what appears to be happening with Darnold. I don't have that concern.

The offensive line was upgraded and I for one cannot believe they are individually all that bad. These guys have proven track records. Of course Solder is not living up to his contract.

As for the defense, it ain't working. And while Bettcher is the DC the buck stops at the top.

So to all my fellow diehard Giant fans do you see any light at the end of this tunnel? I don't. Of course my son's argument is the unknown with bringing in a new coach. I say it can't be any worse.

I say, fire Shurmur. Start anew before it's too late.

What say you all?
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Well...  
Johnny5 : 11/6/2019 9:48 am : link
... Bye.

That's how I feel.

I don't even think he is a good OC. Minnesota offense doesn't look any worse to my eyes, and they were completely embarrassed by Philly in his very last game as OC for them.

I was all for giving him a shot, but right now I fully believe he is NOT the guy. I will still root for him to turn it around if they stick with him, but at this point I'm done... let's move on.
RE: joeinpa  
joeinpa : 11/6/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14666521 blueblood'11 said:
Quote:
I respect your opinion but that's what happened last year, a somewhat strong finish that led everyone to believe they were on the right track. I can't take that one to the bank this year. And do you think they have any shot at beating the Eagles? I don't see that. The Bears with that defense? if they come out of this season with four wins five if they are lucky where is the positive in that? how do you bring him back?


No I don’t think they beat the Eagles or Bears. That s why I thought my standard of 4-3 with a win over the Eagles was a high enough bar to warrant bringing Shurmur back.

I don’t agree that going 4-3 rest if way with win over the Eagles is the same as last year s finish, mostly because it would have been accomplished with a younger team.
👎  
ZogZerg : 11/6/2019 9:51 am : link
👎
Ditch  
Big d E 2 : 11/6/2019 9:55 am : link
him
rnargi  
fkap : 11/6/2019 9:59 am : link
I would think keeping the 3-4 scheme is a given.
First, I think it was a Mara/Gettleman decision to go in that direction. The mood is likely that it isn't the scheme, but the coaching.
Second, they've been drafting/acquiring players to play 3-4. Reversing course would mean a few years of switching to 4-3.

Plus, plenty of coaches come in accepting the existing QB. It was debatable whether Eli was a mandate to keep, but I think it's a given that DJ is the QB for the foreseeable future, so any coach would only get the job with that in agreement.

Keep him with changes  
Daniel in MI : 11/6/2019 10:03 am : link
I don’t think he’s the long term answer but I don’t want Jones under 3 systems in 2 years.

Force a new OL coach and a play caller on him. Get him some OL help and 1 actual WR as a FA. He’s on notice.
Keep Him - Think next year is basically Final Exam.  
bc4life : 11/6/2019 10:19 am : link
No one won in Cleveland. Bad situation.

Not qualified to judge OL Coach, but they have to find a way to improve there. Think draft and FA will have to help. They need a real dominant run blocking FB or TE - who can catch if absolutely necessary. Treat the offense as basically based on 6 blockers every down.

Defense - all about the LBs. It help shutting down run and generating a pass rush.

Shurmur has always said - run comes first, the straw hat stirs the drink. Everything has to focus on finding a way to be one of better run games in the league.
i think he needs to stay  
Rudy5757 : 11/6/2019 10:22 am : link
he hasnt been given a talented roster to work with. even the players we traded away are either old or average at best with their new clubs. Its not like we traded away talent. I dont like firing coaches after 2 years, its bad for business and I dont think you will get a good coach knowing they have a 2 year window.

If you can honestly look at the roster and say we are a playoff team then I dont know what to tell you. He has made some bad decisions as a lot of coaches do. when you are losing everything looks bad. When you have no talent to work with you have to look for signs that the team is improving. i see a team that does play hard week in and week out. I did not see that under macadoo. his teams quit. year 3 is the key year for this coach and franchise. We have some building blocks in place and have to continue to build on that. If after year 3 we are still in the 5 win territory then he must go.
Keep Him  
pa_giant_fan : 11/6/2019 10:23 am : link
.
He’s a slightly  
Bones : 11/6/2019 10:24 am : link
Below average coach in a below average coach league. College coaches are making big money and have more power, so few are going to the pros. Yes, he does not deserve to stay, but the question is who are you going to get to take his place? Mara is too cheap to make a bold hire, so that would leave a young coordinator, which is like rolling dice again.

Shurmur is better than Mcadoo, and Garret for that matter.
Fire him  
TyreeHelmet : 11/6/2019 10:30 am : link
Is there any question he’s a bottom 5 nfl coach? Shouldn’t the Giants strive for better?
Keep him but fire Bettcher  
Captplanet : 11/6/2019 10:37 am : link
The only reason to keep Shurmur is to continue the progress of Daniel Jones. Keep him in the same system, until he gains experience.

Here is a short list of recent 1st round QB's who had different Coaches/coordinators their second year.

Sam Darnold
Jamies Wilson
Marcus Mariota
Mitch Trubisky
Paxton Lynch
Josh Rosen
Jared Goff(benefitted from coaching change)
Blake Bortles

Consistency is important for a football team, but particularly for a QB.

Take away play calling duties.
Shurmur is a decent  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2019 10:46 am : link
coordinator with absolutely no business being a head coach. The longer we keep him the longer we wait to be relevant.
Bones  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2019 10:46 am : link
Shurmur is not a better head coach than McAdoo.
McAdoo  
ryanmkeane : 11/6/2019 10:48 am : link
won 11 games and made the playoffs and had a good game plan against the Packers. if not for our WRs deciding to forget how to catch, that could have been a different game.

McAdoo needed to go, but his actual in game coaching was world's better than Shurmur, and its not close.
Shurmur  
CraigKupp : 11/6/2019 11:01 am : link
Other people have floated this idea, which I agree with. During the bye week have Shurmur hand over playcalling to Shula and focus on being more of the CEO (like Coughlin). Not because I think Shula will be a great playcaller (because based on his history he probably won't), but just to see how Shurmur does when he does not have to worry about playcalling. If after that he is still a disaster in terms of game management and the team not looking ready, then you can seriously consider letting him go.
'During the bye week have Shurmur hand over playcalling to Shula'  
Torrag : 11/6/2019 11:03 am : link
My brother and I wanted this done before the season even began. He can still ask for plays in real time and develop the gameplan.

As far as firing him I'll wait until the end of the season before deciding.
Shurmur  
TyreeHelmet : 11/6/2019 11:18 am : link
This guys “strength” is supposed to be on offense as a play caller. Now people want to take that away? What’s the point of keeping him then?
Keep him  
SgtDog : 11/6/2019 11:31 am : link
He didn't come in and tweek things he came in and is building an entirely new team. You let him go this far you let him finish. Our most consistent problem is going to a 3-4 to emphasize the athleticism of your linebackers but we don't have but 1 athletic linebacker so our safeties have to do most of the tackling and until that changes this team will continue to produce Hall of Fame TE's (for opposing teams) give up 3 and longs and 30+ points a game. Firing the coach aint gonna do s$%t. It will be tough for the Giants to win until they get some athletes in the middle of their defense.
Has to go  
Go Terps : 11/6/2019 11:36 am : link
If the Giants don't replace him it's tantamount to not trying to win.
DITCH  
steviej : 11/6/2019 11:37 am : link
It bothers me when the D comes off the field after a big 3rd down stop & he has his head buried on his play chart instead of congratulating & pumping up his team. Too many other things to mention Gotta Go
Ditch him and his whole staff except for McGaughey.  
Red Dog : 11/6/2019 11:39 am : link
Do it by the end of the season, too, to get a head start on replacements.
RE: Why is beating the Jets, a franchise in crisis, some sort of  
Go Terps : 11/6/2019 11:40 am : link
In comment 14666505 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Test that you pass and get to be an NFL HC for another year.

If I spell my name right, do I get to go to Harvard?

Talk about lowered expectations.


Post of the fucking year. Some of the comments on this thread are insane.

THERE IS NO REASON TO RETAIN SHURMUR ONE MORE MINUTE.
The reason you take away playcalling  
CraigKupp : 11/6/2019 11:59 am : link
even though Shurmur is supposed to be an offensive genius is that it allows him to focus on other issues. First, overall game management. Second, if he's not burdened with the playcalling he can impart his overall offensive knowledge in specific areas to help the team -- helping Jones regarding ball security and/or pocket presence, using his experience as an offensive lineman and offensive line coach to assist with the offensive line.
Ditch him  
ChathamMark : 11/6/2019 12:03 pm : link
...
Shurmur already failed his big test this year  
Chris684 : 11/6/2019 12:07 pm : link
It was the Arizona game. That game was a crossroads for the season. Had they won, I think they could have remained competitive to the tune of 7-9 wins which would have been another step up before competing for playoffs next year.

It was all set up. 10 days to prepare. Some offensive weapons back. West coast team coming east for 1pm start.

It was a major failure and has only gotten worse since. I'm not confident they even reach last year's 5 win total.

He should be gone and I would do it in season even though they never would. I'd elevate McGaughey as a reward for his units playing really well and since I like Special Teams coordinators as head coaches I wouldn't mind seeing what he could bring on an interim basis as I start the HC search.
Shurmur  
rocco8112 : 11/6/2019 12:15 pm : link
just needs more time. Personally, I am willing to sit through some more sessons over by Halloween to eventually see Shurmurball in its full glory
Shurmur need to be fired  
mdc1 : 11/6/2019 12:24 pm : link
2 seasons of this stuff is enough. He will do the same crap in year 3. He is not HC material as we are finding out. We need a f'ing leader with fire to get these guys motivated and prepared to play.
Barring a major turnaround,  
an_idol_mind : 11/6/2019 12:25 pm : link
I'd have to say ditch Shurmur.

Normally I'm not a fan of firing a coach after only two years, but back-to-back seasons with double digit losses is brutal. The team isn't playing any better than it was a year ago, and they're getting blown out almost every week. Rookie quarterback or not, there's no excuse for how bad this team is right now.

If the Giants win four of their remaining 7 games, Shurmur will finish with a career-high six wins in a season. That will be after four full years as a head coach in the NFL. I know two of those were with the Browns, but I don't know how you bring back a coach who has spent four years in the league and failed to crack seven wins in at least one of those seasons.
RE: probably comes down to if there is anyone out there who is better?  
mdc1 : 11/6/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14666520 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
. Not sure there is


You realize we have won 2 games? Is anyone better? yikes
I was a big fan of his uncle  
Mattman : 11/6/2019 12:28 pm : link
Pat Shurmur is probably a better coordinator than a head coach. He's probably a good guy that the players seem to like.

Like others have said, being a head coach is more than running one unit. You are responsible for overseeing all other coaches and the bigger picture of the game and offering input into all phases.

It is a results based position and he hasn't provided results. It doesn't matter what the adversity is that he is facing, if he isn't overcoming it his team won't.
Gotta go. In waaaayyyyyyyyy over his head.  
MOOPS : 11/6/2019 12:38 pm : link
we'd have to go on some tear  
UConn4523 : 11/6/2019 12:40 pm : link
to convince me that we should retain him. I supported him during the "it takes time" phase, but that's over. His mistakes are numerous and repeated. That series to close out the first half Monday night sealed it for me. Not running 2 times after that 1st down drop was fucking asinine.
He will be fired  
Vanzetti : 11/6/2019 12:43 pm : link
Unless Giants have a win streak

But you are not going to survive 5-11 followed by 4-12
Fire  
jeff57 : 11/6/2019 12:50 pm : link
Him
He has shown that he is not the answer  
Frank from CA : 11/6/2019 12:52 pm : link
At some point he has to make decisions that show that he improve the team and win football games. It is hard to see positives from Coach Shurmur. We'll never know how bad he was since the Front Office did not do their part in creating a winning team. The bad decisions and meh decisions overwhelm the good decisions.
I really want to take a BBI poll on this  
Leg of Theismann : 11/6/2019 1:36 pm : link
using Survey Monkey or something. I'd be interested to see half-way through his 2nd season if most people would rather keep him or ditch him.
Premature  
Thegratefulhead : 11/6/2019 1:39 pm : link
Leaning towards canning him. However, let's see if can develop Jones as the year progresses. You must admit the groceries need to ripen a bit. They are young and green, time should improve them. I was only looking for progress this year, time is running out.
He sucks.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/6/2019 1:40 pm : link
He sucked in Cleveland. He sucks here.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out Pat.
RE: The reason you take away playcalling  
TyreeHelmet : 11/6/2019 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14666936 CraigKupp said:
Quote:
even though Shurmur is supposed to be an offensive genius is that it allows him to focus on other issues. First, overall game management. Second, if he's not burdened with the playcalling he can impart his overall offensive knowledge in specific areas to help the team -- helping Jones regarding ball security and/or pocket presence, using his experience as an offensive lineman and offensive line coach to assist with the offensive line.


Do you actually believe this?
RE: Premature  
Go Terps : 11/6/2019 1:53 pm : link
In comment 14667149 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Leaning towards canning him. However, let's see if can develop Jones as the year progresses. You must admit the groceries need to ripen a bit. They are young and green, time should improve them. I was only looking for progress this year, time is running out.


Play out 2020 in your head with Shurmur coaching. So you see any scenario where we go 10-6? Any at all?
Keep Shurmur  
Route 9 : 11/6/2019 1:54 pm : link
I want to see his record be 19-60 as a head coach
DITCH  
ArcadeSlumlord : 11/6/2019 4:42 pm : link
DEUCES BITCH!
RE: Gotta go. In waaaayyyyyyyyy over his head.  
ArcadeSlumlord : 11/6/2019 4:45 pm : link
In comment 14667014 MOOPS said:
Quote:

Ditch him  
Phil in Joisey : 11/6/2019 6:31 pm : link
right after this week's loss to the Jets.
RE: RE: Premature  
JinCO : 11/7/2019 10:28 am : link
In comment 14667174 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14667149 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Leaning towards canning him. However, let's see if can develop Jones as the year progresses. You must admit the groceries need to ripen a bit. They are young and green, time should improve them. I was only looking for progress this year, time is running out.



Play out 2020 in your head with Shurmur coaching. So you see any scenario where we go 10-6? Any at all?


Ok so play out 2020 with the current roster, especially the OL... Still no way we go 10-6. The players so far have not made plays.
Ditch  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 10:37 am : link
He is worse than McAdoo and on Handley’s level.
RE: He’s a slightly  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/7/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14666724 Bones said:
Quote:
Below average coach in a below average coach league. College coaches are making big money and have more power, so few are going to the pros. Yes, he does not deserve to stay, but the question is who are you going to get to take his place? Mara is too cheap to make a bold hire, so that would leave a young coordinator, which is like rolling dice again.

Shurmur is better than Mcadoo, and Garret for that matter.


Not only is he worse than McAdoo, he is significantly worse than McAdoo.

His record wouldn't support your "below average" appraisal. His win percentage is abysmal.
I think a loss to the Jets  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/7/2019 11:07 am : link
will seal his fate.
RE: RE: He’s a slightly  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14668077 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14666724 Bones said:


Quote:


Below average coach in a below average coach league. College coaches are making big money and have more power, so few are going to the pros. Yes, he does not deserve to stay, but the question is who are you going to get to take his place? Mara is too cheap to make a bold hire, so that would leave a young coordinator, which is like rolling dice again.

Shurmur is better than Mcadoo, and Garret for that matter.



Not only is he worse than McAdoo, he is significantly worse than McAdoo.

His record wouldn't support your "below average" appraisal. His win percentage is abysmal.
He makes McAdoo look like Bill parcells.
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