Shurmur poll. Keep him or ditch him

Reads these and listens to us.....

Fire him

And steal one more game I’ll be fine with bringing him back. I won’t love it but you can’t continue to churn through coaches.

I get the fact we don't have a great roster but he doesn't seem like he's getting anything out of these guys. Totally uninspired.

Ditch him

Not to keep him. Who has any reason to believe Shurmur is a long-term solution as HC?

This logic for retaining Shurmur doesn’t withstand ten seconds of examination. What Jones needs is a solid coaching environment in which he and his teammates are steadily developing, not this train wreck.

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Not going to find anyone better at this time

I d like to wait til end of season to decide. But if I was the owner, HA HA, I d say he better beat the Jets; win 2 of 3 against the Dolphins,Redskins, and Bears,and have a very competitive game or win against Eagles

That would be either 4-3 or 3-4 finish with things looking up, I d keep him.

But if there is a repeat of the Cardinal game in there, the Eagle games are. Non competitive, final record 4-12 or 5-11, serious consideration would be given for change

Test that you pass and get to be an NFL HC for another year.

If I spell my name right, do I get to go to Harvard?

Talk about lowered expectations.

In comment 14666477 ron mexico said:

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And steal one more game I’ll be fine with bringing him back. I won’t love it but you can’t continue to churn through coaches.

Don't agree with the "you can't turn through coaches" defense.

Yeah, I get it...bad teams fire their coaches more often.

But I look at this more like a 35 yr old single woman who desperately wants to get married and have kids would look at her dating life. With her biological clock ticking, as soon as she realized that the guy she's been dating is not "THE ONE" she needs to move on.

Giants management should have realized by now that Shurmur is not "The One" that can take this team back to the playoffs. They need to move on.

This is an easier decision than firing McAdoo was.

and the needs time crowd is delusional. Shurmur will not improve instincts, game management, player usage management with time. He has had time here, as an assistant and as a previous HC.

Better players will not improve any of those areas and when you add in his horrible challenge choices, his behavior on the sidelines when calls go against him (he literally seems like a child when he challenges calls he doesn't like just to lose a timeout and it screams of desperation) and his overall Blah feeling you get from him, he just isn't the guy I want leading a YOUNG team.

The Giants need new blood and not some guy who seems good because he coached a GREAT player (McAdoo- Rodgers), it is time to get a young guy with ideas and who can get these young players up and running quickly.

As soon as you realize you're never going to win with the current guy, the current guy has to go.

Chronic losing will hurt Daniel Jones more than learning a new offense would. And the team is about more than just Daniel Jones. Shurmur doesn't even use Barkley properly, FFS. How do you screw that up?!

either give both another year, or give both walking papers.

The last thing the org needs is to hire yet another coach, then find themselves with a GM problem. They'll be reluctant to move on the GM a year into the new coach's tenure and you'll be looking at an additional losing season for no reason.

Assuming that the Giants remain on their current trajectory without major improvement, of course.

. Not sure there is

I respect your opinion but that's what happened last year, a somewhat strong finish that led everyone to believe they were on the right track. I can't take that one to the bank this year. And do you think they have any shot at beating the Eagles? I don't see that. The Bears with that defense? if they come out of this season with four wins five if they are lucky where is the positive in that? how do you bring him back?

Ditch Murmur. He's a pussy. Sorry he is what he is.

There's a few good coaches out there with winning records looking for a job.
There's also a bunch of coordinators who deserve a shot as well.

And ownership is mistaken if they believe otherwise.

Ditch him

Fire him, and Gettleman too!

Ditch Murmur. He's a pussy. Sorry he is what he is.

There's a few good coaches out there with winning records looking for a job.
There's also a bunch of coordinators who deserve a shot as well.

Ditch Murmur. He's a pussy. Sorry he is what he is.

There's a few good coaches out there with winning records looking for a job.
There's also a bunch of coordinators who deserve a shot as well.

take away his playcalling responsibility. Get an offensive coordinator to allow Shurmur to be the head coach. Being a head coach and the offensive coordinator is WAY too much for Shurmur's.

Ditch Murmur. He's a pussy. Sorry he is what he is.

There's a few good coaches out there with winning records looking for a job.
There's also a bunch of coordinators who deserve a shot as well.

That being said, i do not envision ever having a winning record with Shurmur at the helm.

Fire him on the morning of December 30th

Time to move on

Will keep

In Shurmers 3 1/2 years as a head coach he has never fielded a squad that was greater than the sum of its parts. Gotta move on.

bad coaches don't make bad teams good
bad coaches make good teams worse
good teams don't keep bad coaches.

ditch him

Tell us what you think.

He doesn't understand the flow of the game, when to take chances and when to play it safe. That is a serious disconnect. He's a good OC, but I don't know that he will ever be a good HC.

I don't see the benefit of kicking the can down the road, nor how beating the Jets and/or Dolphins changes that.

and I wonder does he have any idea what he's doing? When you look back at the Eli benching when McAdoo was coach it was his comments about the need to see what they had that led to McAdoo benching Eli and the the whole thing falling apart with McAdoo loosing the team. He took the fall at the feet of Mara's suggestion which almost was a directive to McAdoo to do what he did.

Came up. Repost in 16 seconds!
Wholly shit.
I guess I got my point across. LOL

In comment 14666520 CMicks3110 said:

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. Not sure there is

Shurmur is one of the three worst head coaches in the NFL. Of course there are better options out there.

In comment 14666529 BamaBlue said:

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take away his playcalling responsibility. Get an offensive coordinator to allow Shurmur to be the head coach. Being a head coach and the offensive coordinator is WAY too much for Shurmur's.

Why would you do that, when Shurmur has already proven to be utterly clueless about game management?

Enough said. He needs to go ASAP. What has anyone seen from him that tells you he's going to be a good head coach? 58 games as head coach in the league is enough of a sample size. He's career record is one of the worst of all time. Repeats the same mistakes week after week. MOVE ON.

You are what your record says. Losing coach 24 games below 500 and counting. Plus in all seriousness his game management and decision making is just horrible. We basically get out coached every week.Not a recipe for success even when the roster talent is upgraded.And he can take the DC with him.

Nine games into the season we have Baker admitting he doesn't know the playbook. What does that say about the coaching staff?

When Jenkins opted out of tackling Jarwin he should have been benched immediately. What message does that send to the young players?

The contrast was the Dallas/Giants game. The new regime is only in its second year. It needs more time. A few years ago the Giants selected Beckham. The next pick was Dallas. They chose Zack Martin. I inquired here as to why the Giants passed on Martin. The response was "He is a better player". We all know how that played out. Parcells said thirty years ago, if you want to build a football team, start from the line of scrimmage and work your way back. Changing coaches can ruin a young quarterback. The cap space will be there next year. I'm hoping for a good draft peppered with a few good free agent signings. In the mean time, lets look for progress and the further development of our new quarterback.

But he has shown enough to me over his time that he is just not cut out for being a HC in this league. He needs to go at years end.i think the Giants need to steer clear of candidates who think so highly of themselves and don’t delegate to their coordinators. Shurmer and McAdoo both refuse to let their OCs do their jobs, and both are awful at in game management. We need a HC who is a manager first and foremost and can rely on their staff. There are so many problems with the staff we have, OL coach is dreadful, DC is enept, and our OC doesn’t serve any purpose. I want a HC who is focused on making sure his staff is doing their jobs, and he’s getting the most out of his players to win the damn game.

He's been dealt two losing hands in his first two years. Bad Eli in year one and a rookie QB and some of the youngest players in the league in year two.

I like his aggressive takes which, frankly, will work once he has a better team around Jones (and I like that Jones is already being conditioned to think that going for it on fourth down is always on the table).

He was a big part of why Jones is here - let him get a chance to work with the kid. Also the team plays for him.

It's always been the plan that he'll get a few years so I would stay patient and keep moving forward with him.

Regardless of what many on BBI want or think. I prefer we keep him another year. I do want to see improvement next season or after that I believe Giants will think about moving on. That’s the way I see it.

A wise post. Agreed.

he is the 7th most losing head coach of all time. He is a loser. Has shown nothing to change that. Has to go.

Ditch him, but at the same time not much confidence in the Giants making the right choice to succeed him.
Ideally, they'd ditch both Shurmur and Gettleman.
But that would still leave Mara.

He clearly can't manage a game. I think the players might like him, but it's not helping his own play calling and time management.

The team gets worse by the week. And another meaningless late season "surge" won't change my mind.

I believe in continuity...

I feel he's been dealt a faulty hand...

I don't think this team has the TALENT to compete...

I think an offseason with cap space and more solid drafting as in the past two years will help...

So, all other things equal, I'd keep him.

HOWEVER:

As noted, it appears he's unwilling or unable to shake up his staff...not good.

It appears that he's unwilling to delegate the in game play calling and it's unclear how much his OC has a hand in game planning...not good.

In game management is questionable, at best...too many head scratchers to blame it all on the players...not good.

Does not instill confidence via media/press that there is a process, that he's following it, and providing metrics that his process is on track...

For those reasons, I think it may be time to let him go. So here's the conundrum:

Who replaces him, and what's the vision?

A new coach usually wants HIS QB. What if Jones ain't it?

A new coach may have a different defensive philosophy. What if this ain't it? We've been drafting for this situation for two years, do they blow it up or stay the course?

I never thought of Shurmur as a stop gap. A stop gap doesn't 'build' anything...they ride with what they have until another person can start building.

I don't think I can take another "rebuild" but it sure doesn't FEEL like "stay the course" is the answer, either.

A

2020 is a key key year for our franchise to either sink or swim for another 3-5 years

We have 60M+ to spend and some rookies /2nd year players developing

We need to do alot next year with about 6-8 key positions to have a shot at being competitive

Do we want DG and Shurmur guiding this ship?

Poll is about Shurmur so I vote fire and start new so we aren't redoing this again in 2 years anyway.

Tell tale signs of a bad coach have been called out. When a guy like Jenkins makes a half tackle effort and he isn't benched (maybe he will be? ) then the coach is a wuss. No backbone and players won't respect him at all

And that he is calling plays instead of coaching is an issue unless you have the resume to prove it. he does not

...he's gone at the end of this season.

As is the vast majority of his staff.

Great coaches build their scheme to fit the players they have and teach their players the scheme.
Then adjust and build accordingly.

whats the point in keeping him till the end of the year? He's had 7 games with "his QB" yet he calls the same game. His only encouraging play calling was vs TB and he's gone away from that. Fire him during the bye week and give the interim coach a handful of games to see if there is a difference. Also helps start the coaching process sooner

... Bye.

That's how I feel.

I don't even think he is a good OC. Minnesota offense doesn't look any worse to my eyes, and they were completely embarrassed by Philly in his very last game as OC for them.

I was all for giving him a shot, but right now I fully believe he is NOT the guy. I will still root for him to turn it around if they stick with him, but at this point I'm done... let's move on.

In comment 14666521 blueblood'11 said:

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I respect your opinion but that's what happened last year, a somewhat strong finish that led everyone to believe they were on the right track. I can't take that one to the bank this year. And do you think they have any shot at beating the Eagles? I don't see that. The Bears with that defense? if they come out of this season with four wins five if they are lucky where is the positive in that? how do you bring him back?

No I don’t think they beat the Eagles or Bears. That s why I thought my standard of 4-3 with a win over the Eagles was a high enough bar to warrant bringing Shurmur back.

I don’t agree that going 4-3 rest if way with win over the Eagles is the same as last year s finish, mostly because it would have been accomplished with a younger team.

👎

him

I would think keeping the 3-4 scheme is a given.
First, I think it was a Mara/Gettleman decision to go in that direction. The mood is likely that it isn't the scheme, but the coaching.
Second, they've been drafting/acquiring players to play 3-4. Reversing course would mean a few years of switching to 4-3.

Plus, plenty of coaches come in accepting the existing QB. It was debatable whether Eli was a mandate to keep, but I think it's a given that DJ is the QB for the foreseeable future, so any coach would only get the job with that in agreement.

I don’t think he’s the long term answer but I don’t want Jones under 3 systems in 2 years.

Force a new OL coach and a play caller on him. Get him some OL help and 1 actual WR as a FA. He’s on notice.

No one won in Cleveland. Bad situation.

Not qualified to judge OL Coach, but they have to find a way to improve there. Think draft and FA will have to help. They need a real dominant run blocking FB or TE - who can catch if absolutely necessary. Treat the offense as basically based on 6 blockers every down.

Defense - all about the LBs. It help shutting down run and generating a pass rush.

Shurmur has always said - run comes first, the straw hat stirs the drink. Everything has to focus on finding a way to be one of better run games in the league.

he hasnt been given a talented roster to work with. even the players we traded away are either old or average at best with their new clubs. Its not like we traded away talent. I dont like firing coaches after 2 years, its bad for business and I dont think you will get a good coach knowing they have a 2 year window.

If you can honestly look at the roster and say we are a playoff team then I dont know what to tell you. He has made some bad decisions as a lot of coaches do. when you are losing everything looks bad. When you have no talent to work with you have to look for signs that the team is improving. i see a team that does play hard week in and week out. I did not see that under macadoo. his teams quit. year 3 is the key year for this coach and franchise. We have some building blocks in place and have to continue to build on that. If after year 3 we are still in the 5 win territory then he must go.

.

Below average coach in a below average coach league. College coaches are making big money and have more power, so few are going to the pros. Yes, he does not deserve to stay, but the question is who are you going to get to take his place? Mara is too cheap to make a bold hire, so that would leave a young coordinator, which is like rolling dice again.

Shurmur is better than Mcadoo, and Garret for that matter.

Is there any question he’s a bottom 5 nfl coach? Shouldn’t the Giants strive for better?

The only reason to keep Shurmur is to continue the progress of Daniel Jones. Keep him in the same system, until he gains experience.

Here is a short list of recent 1st round QB's who had different Coaches/coordinators their second year.

Sam Darnold
Jamies Wilson
Marcus Mariota
Mitch Trubisky
Paxton Lynch
Josh Rosen
Jared Goff(benefitted from coaching change)
Blake Bortles

Consistency is important for a football team, but particularly for a QB.

Take away play calling duties.

coordinator with absolutely no business being a head coach. The longer we keep him the longer we wait to be relevant.

Shurmur is not a better head coach than McAdoo.

won 11 games and made the playoffs and had a good game plan against the Packers. if not for our WRs deciding to forget how to catch, that could have been a different game.

McAdoo needed to go, but his actual in game coaching was world's better than Shurmur, and its not close.

Other people have floated this idea, which I agree with. During the bye week have Shurmur hand over playcalling to Shula and focus on being more of the CEO (like Coughlin). Not because I think Shula will be a great playcaller (because based on his history he probably won't), but just to see how Shurmur does when he does not have to worry about playcalling. If after that he is still a disaster in terms of game management and the team not looking ready, then you can seriously consider letting him go.

My brother and I wanted this done before the season even began. He can still ask for plays in real time and develop the gameplan.

As far as firing him I'll wait until the end of the season before deciding.

This guys “strength” is supposed to be on offense as a play caller. Now people want to take that away? What’s the point of keeping him then?

He didn't come in and tweek things he came in and is building an entirely new team. You let him go this far you let him finish. Our most consistent problem is going to a 3-4 to emphasize the athleticism of your linebackers but we don't have but 1 athletic linebacker so our safeties have to do most of the tackling and until that changes this team will continue to produce Hall of Fame TE's (for opposing teams) give up 3 and longs and 30+ points a game. Firing the coach aint gonna do s$%t. It will be tough for the Giants to win until they get some athletes in the middle of their defense.

If the Giants don't replace him it's tantamount to not trying to win.

It bothers me when the D comes off the field after a big 3rd down stop & he has his head buried on his play chart instead of congratulating & pumping up his team. Too many other things to mention Gotta Go

Do it by the end of the season, too, to get a head start on replacements.

In comment 14666505 cosmicj said:

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Test that you pass and get to be an NFL HC for another year. If I spell my name right, do I get to go to Harvard? Talk about lowered expectations.

Post of the fucking year. Some of the comments on this thread are insane.

THERE IS NO REASON TO RETAIN SHURMUR ONE MORE MINUTE.

even though Shurmur is supposed to be an offensive genius is that it allows him to focus on other issues. First, overall game management. Second, if he's not burdened with the playcalling he can impart his overall offensive knowledge in specific areas to help the team -- helping Jones regarding ball security and/or pocket presence, using his experience as an offensive lineman and offensive line coach to assist with the offensive line.

...

It was the Arizona game. That game was a crossroads for the season. Had they won, I think they could have remained competitive to the tune of 7-9 wins which would have been another step up before competing for playoffs next year.

It was all set up. 10 days to prepare. Some offensive weapons back. West coast team coming east for 1pm start.

It was a major failure and has only gotten worse since. I'm not confident they even reach last year's 5 win total.

He should be gone and I would do it in season even though they never would. I'd elevate McGaughey as a reward for his units playing really well and since I like Special Teams coordinators as head coaches I wouldn't mind seeing what he could bring on an interim basis as I start the HC search.

just needs more time. Personally, I am willing to sit through some more sessons over by Halloween to eventually see Shurmurball in its full glory

2 seasons of this stuff is enough. He will do the same crap in year 3. He is not HC material as we are finding out. We need a f'ing leader with fire to get these guys motivated and prepared to play.

I'd have to say ditch Shurmur.

Normally I'm not a fan of firing a coach after only two years, but back-to-back seasons with double digit losses is brutal. The team isn't playing any better than it was a year ago, and they're getting blown out almost every week. Rookie quarterback or not, there's no excuse for how bad this team is right now.

If the Giants win four of their remaining 7 games, Shurmur will finish with a career-high six wins in a season. That will be after four full years as a head coach in the NFL. I know two of those were with the Browns, but I don't know how you bring back a coach who has spent four years in the league and failed to crack seven wins in at least one of those seasons.

In comment 14666520 CMicks3110 said:

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. Not sure there is

You realize we have won 2 games? Is anyone better? yikes

Pat Shurmur is probably a better coordinator than a head coach. He's probably a good guy that the players seem to like.

Like others have said, being a head coach is more than running one unit. You are responsible for overseeing all other coaches and the bigger picture of the game and offering input into all phases.

It is a results based position and he hasn't provided results. It doesn't matter what the adversity is that he is facing, if he isn't overcoming it his team won't.

to convince me that we should retain him. I supported him during the "it takes time" phase, but that's over. His mistakes are numerous and repeated. That series to close out the first half Monday night sealed it for me. Not running 2 times after that 1st down drop was fucking asinine.

Unless Giants have a win streak

But you are not going to survive 5-11 followed by 4-12

Him

At some point he has to make decisions that show that he improve the team and win football games. It is hard to see positives from Coach Shurmur. We'll never know how bad he was since the Front Office did not do their part in creating a winning team. The bad decisions and meh decisions overwhelm the good decisions.

using Survey Monkey or something. I'd be interested to see half-way through his 2nd season if most people would rather keep him or ditch him.

Leaning towards canning him. However, let's see if can develop Jones as the year progresses. You must admit the groceries need to ripen a bit. They are young and green, time should improve them. I was only looking for progress this year, time is running out.

He sucked in Cleveland. He sucks here.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out Pat.

In comment 14666936 CraigKupp said:

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even though Shurmur is supposed to be an offensive genius is that it allows him to focus on other issues. First, overall game management. Second, if he's not burdened with the playcalling he can impart his overall offensive knowledge in specific areas to help the team -- helping Jones regarding ball security and/or pocket presence, using his experience as an offensive lineman and offensive line coach to assist with the offensive line.

Do you actually believe this?

In comment 14667149 Thegratefulhead said:

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Leaning towards canning him. However, let's see if can develop Jones as the year progresses. You must admit the groceries need to ripen a bit. They are young and green, time should improve them. I was only looking for progress this year, time is running out.

Play out 2020 in your head with Shurmur coaching. So you see any scenario where we go 10-6? Any at all?

I want to see his record be 19-60 as a head coach

DEUCES BITCH!

In comment 14667014 MOOPS said:

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right after this week's loss to the Jets.

In comment 14667174 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14667149 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Leaning towards canning him. However, let's see if can develop Jones as the year progresses. You must admit the groceries need to ripen a bit. They are young and green, time should improve them. I was only looking for progress this year, time is running out. Play out 2020 in your head with Shurmur coaching. So you see any scenario where we go 10-6? Any at all?

Ok so play out 2020 with the current roster, especially the OL... Still no way we go 10-6. The players so far have not made plays.

He is worse than McAdoo and on Handley’s level.

In comment 14666724 Bones said:

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Below average coach in a below average coach league. College coaches are making big money and have more power, so few are going to the pros. Yes, he does not deserve to stay, but the question is who are you going to get to take his place? Mara is too cheap to make a bold hire, so that would leave a young coordinator, which is like rolling dice again. Shurmur is better than Mcadoo, and Garret for that matter.

Not only is he worse than McAdoo, he is significantly worse than McAdoo.

His record wouldn't support your "below average" appraisal. His win percentage is abysmal.

will seal his fate.

In comment 14668077 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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In comment 14666724 Bones said: Quote: Below average coach in a below average coach league. College coaches are making big money and have more power, so few are going to the pros. Yes, he does not deserve to stay, but the question is who are you going to get to take his place? Mara is too cheap to make a bold hire, so that would leave a young coordinator, which is like rolling dice again. Shurmur is better than Mcadoo, and Garret for that matter. Not only is he worse than McAdoo, he is significantly worse than McAdoo. His record wouldn't support your "below average" appraisal. His win percentage is abysmal.

He makes McAdoo look like Bill parcells.