He has a lot of help in that, but this is a league of Assignments and Effort and Mistakes. He's making lot's of Mistakes...too much trading 3 spectacular plays for one error. Too Much Contact...I'm referring to the contact that is under his control and also the contact that is the result of the play design itself.
I really like Jones...even more and more, mistakes and all. Let's see him limit the errors....give his team a chance to win Late..steal a few games. He needs to begin playing like a guy who's capable of leading a MUCH BETTER 2020 Squad.
Goooooooooooo Giiiiaaannntttsssss!!!!!!!
You know there is always going to be a learning curve for QB's, especially rookies who get thrown into the mix in their first year. You just hope that Jones will learn from his mistakes this year, correct them and take it to the next level in year 2. Problem is, no one knows how he will turn out at this point.
They make mistakes.
Jones isn't "LOSING" us games any more than the incompetent HC, DC, horrendous defense, awful offensive line or general lack of talent are.
But I still say let the kid play, as this is invaluable learning time and he will either fix it or fail. I rather watch him fumble away then Eli going 3 n out and checking it down short of the 1st down marker for the millionth time.
There is hope with Jones at least.
Damn Jones if he was only as good Eli was his rookie year the Giants would be a SB contender.
I believe this is correctable, either from a mechanical or mental standpoint.
He throws a really nice ball.
He's accurate.
He's mobile.
He's tough.
He's smart.
He's a hard worker.
He's fearless.
He also puts the ball on the ground way too much. He loses track of safeties sometimes. He tries to do too much at times.
Most of his problems are correctable. You can't teach a lot of what he does do well. He's not even a half season into his career. He needs time.
Yes he needs to work on fumbles, pocket awareness and he needs to get the ball out to the checkdown receiver quicker. Several times the other night he waited to long and by the time he got the ball out, the checkdown was covered.
I am truly hopeful on DJ. I think Gettleman may have found a winner.
Yes he needs to work on fumbles, pocket awareness and he needs to get the ball out to the checkdown receiver quicker.
I think there is a balance here when it comes to pocket awareness. I actually like the fact that he does not get panicked back there. He has courage and is willing to hang in there. That is something that should be considered to be a positive. He just needs to develop an internal clock that says.. time to get rid of the ball or get out of this pocket.
The internal clock needs to be his biggest focus this offseason.
That is NOT a major sin for a rookie. That's why you play him. It's called growing pains. Anyone who thought the Giants would win a bunch of games with Jones at QB was not being realistic.
Don't you know? It's about Assignments and Effort and Mistakes. Oh, and Capitalization of Words for no apparent Reason.
He throws a really nice ball.
He's accurate.
He's mobile.
He's tough.
He's smart.
He's a hard worker.
He's fearless.
He also puts the ball on the ground way too much. He loses track of safeties sometimes. He tries to do too much at times.
Most of his problems are correctable. You can't teach a lot of what he does do well. He's not even a half season into his career. He needs time.
Exactly. The irony is if they weren't always playing from behind, if we had any kind of defense there wouldn't be as much pressure on him to try to do too much. He may not force the balls he's forcing or just take the sac rather than waiting too much to try to throw a ball that ends up being knocked out of his hands or have to stretch out for that first down he's fumbling. We'll never know the answer. Certainly he needs to correct these issues if he's going to be the Giants next successful QB. I can only hope he does.
But poor season is due to defense. I am more concern about 2020 defense....then 2020 Daniel Jones
That is NOT a major sin for a rookie. That's why you play him. It's called growing pains. Anyone who thought the Giants would win a bunch of games with Jones at QB was not being realistic.
When you're line is giving him zero time to get rid of the ball..
Of course he's going to look at his first read and then dump off. If the line would afford him the extra 2 seconds he can go to his second and third read.
He has no confidence in that line line now. Just like Eli didn't. So now you're seeing Jones do what Eli had done before him.
It's not rocket science. The line has to play MUCH better for him to be effective.
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It's not rocket science. The line has to play MUCH better for him to be effective.
Unfortunately, I see the OL losing individual battles on every play, often two or three simultaneously. Very few schemes will fix this...it's a dearth of talent/ability issue.
On defense...Ive never seen a team so collectively unable to get off their blocks. It's like an epidemic of incompetence.
Skill players aside, this team simply does not have the roster talent to compete on most Sundays.
Like the stages of grief...I've come to accept this I'm afraid.
And Baker Mayfield is an arrogant prick who needs to grow up, though he's also not alone on the Browns in having an attitude problem. If he can do that (big "if", Baker!), he can also be a decent QB.
I mean he's averaging 2 fumbles a game
However, and its prob because i hate him, i'm going to blame Shurmur. A good coach would coach him out of it.
They make mistakes.
Jones isn't "LOSING" us games any more than the incompetent HC, DC, horrendous defense, awful offensive line or general lack of talent are.
I almost never disagree with arcs, but this time I take the disenting POV. Jones is hurting the Giants in far more ways than most realize or at least acknowledge.
But it's par for the course for a rookie QB. As for the "awful" OL discussed in many threads, this exact group of OL, if they were playing for Belichick in NE and in front of Tom Brady running the team on the field, they would be more than adequate.
I mean he's averaging 2 fumbles a game
However, and its prob because i hate him, i'm going to blame Shurmur. A good coach would coach him out of it.
He's not averaging two fumbles a game.
He's fumbling too much, but we don't need to exaggerate to make the point. He's started 7 games and fumbled 10 times.
Far too much. But, he doesn't have 14.
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Yeah, it's called being a rookie QB in the NFL.
They make mistakes.
Jones isn't "LOSING" us games any more than the incompetent HC, DC, horrendous defense, awful offensive line or general lack of talent are.
I almost never disagree with arcs, but this time I take the disenting POV. Jones is hurting the Giants in far more ways than most realize or at least acknowledge.
But it's par for the course for a rookie QB. As for the "awful" OL discussed in many threads, this exact group of OL, if they were playing for Belichick in NE and in front of Tom Brady running the team on the field, they would be more than adequate.
If the OL was playing better than it appeared to be, then I feel like you'd at least see it in the run game.
An inexperienced QB can make an offensive line look bad, but then how do we explain a consistent failure to block for Barkley?
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Yeah, it's called being a rookie QB in the NFL.
They make mistakes.
Jones isn't "LOSING" us games any more than the incompetent HC, DC, horrendous defense, awful offensive line or general lack of talent are.
I almost never disagree with arcs, but this time I take the disenting POV. Jones is hurting the Giants in far more ways than most realize or at least acknowledge.
But it's par for the course for a rookie QB. As for the "awful" OL discussed in many threads, this exact group of OL, if they were playing for Belichick in NE and in front of Tom Brady running the team on the field, they would be more than adequate.
Which ways would those be?
The proof is in the pudding. He's had less time to throw the football than just about any other QB in the league. These guys would magically all be good in New England?
The Patriots are a lazy example - I hate even bringing them up in discussions like these. They're just unprovable throwaway points.
If Belichick was the coach, we'd have a better record too. We don't have Bill and our OL doesn't play in Foxboro.
This offensive line is horrid. I have no idea how anyone could argue otherwise. It's every bit as bad as it was when Gettleman got here.
He's making a bunch of really good plays mixed with some bad mistakes. Shit happens but he isn't the problem with this team.
I mean he's averaging 2 fumbles a game
However, and its prob because i hate him, i'm going to blame Shurmur. A good coach would coach him out of it.
Lamar Jackson had 13 in 8 games as a starter last year (including playoffs) and another 2 in games he wasn't a starter.
Goff had 12 last year. Minshew has 11 this year. Josh Allen has 10.
IDK, but at some point early during Monday night's game the stat flashed that showed Barkley averaging 5.0 ypc.
Barkley has looked tentative at times this year, and in an effort to "follow his blockers" is freelancing less and therefore NOT generating the big hit plays he ran for last year when bouncing things outside. He also misses Sterling Sheppard's (and maybe OBJ's too) blocking in the run game that helped extend his runs 10+ yards downfield. Look for it and you'll see.
Still, he's averaging 5.0 yards per carry. This OL isn't as awful as many are making out!
Allstarjim and Cosmicjc have noted it as well.
The naysayers see what they want...
Item #1 is something you expect a bright guy to correct with experience. Eli struggled a little with it his whole career because he didn't seem to have the ability to give up on plays until the end of his career. Hopefully Jones learns it more quickly.
Item #2 is more concerning as it is not the same problem exactly as Tiki had with where and how to hold the ball when running. You can't hold the ball high and tight in the pocket when you are looking to throw. But he has to be able to better feel the rush, and secure the ball when the protection and throw just aren't there.
IDK, but at some point early during Monday night's game the stat flashed that showed Barkley averaging 5.0 ypc.
Barkley has looked tentative at times this year, and in an effort to "follow his blockers" is freelancing less and therefore NOT generating the big hit plays he ran for last year when bouncing things outside. He also misses Sterling Sheppard's (and maybe OBJ's too) blocking in the run game that helped extend his runs 10+ yards downfield. Look for it and you'll see.
Still, he's averaging 5.0 yards per carry. This OL isn't as awful as many are making out!
Allstarjim and Cosmicjc have noted it as well.
The naysayers see what they want...
Do you think last season's offensive line was good? I think we can all agree that the line was terrible last season and Barkley averaged 5.0 yards per carry. Barkley is an elite talent who will perform regardless of the players around him. Barkley averaging 5 yards per carry doesn't prove that the offensive line is good at pass blocking.
[quote] "running the ball".
IDK, but at some point early during Monday night's game the stat flashed that showed Barkley averaging 5.0 ypc.
Barkley has looked tentative at times this year, and in an effort to "follow his blockers" is freelancing less and therefore NOT generating the big hit plays he ran for last year when bouncing things outside. He also misses Sterling Sheppard's (and maybe OBJ's too) blocking in the run game that helped extend his runs 10+ yards downfield. Look for it and you'll see.
Still, he's averaging 5.0 yards per carry. This OL isn't as awful as many are making out!
Allstarjim and Cosmicjc have noted it as well.
The naysayers see what they want... [/quote
Saquon is at 4.6 YPC for the season. His last 4 games he's averaging 1.2, 4, 3.4 and 2.0.
Gallman has had 5 or more carries in two games. In those two games he's averaging 3.5 and 2.
As of the Lions game he was the most pressured QB in the NFL. By a significant margin.
IDK, but at some point early during Monday night's game the stat flashed that showed Barkley averaging 5.0 ypc.
Barkley has looked tentative at times this year, and in an effort to "follow his blockers" is freelancing less and therefore NOT generating the big hit plays he ran for last year when bouncing things outside. He also misses Sterling Sheppard's (and maybe OBJ's too) blocking in the run game that helped extend his runs 10+ yards downfield. Look for it and you'll see.
Still, he's averaging 5.0 yards per carry. This OL isn't as awful as many are making out!
Allstarjim and Cosmicjc have noted it as well.
The naysayers see what they want...
Saquon is at 4.6 YPC for the season. His last 4 games he's averaging 1.2, 4, 3.4 and 2.0.
Gallman has had 5 or more carries in two games. In those two games he's averaging 3.5 and 2.
As of the Lions game he was the most pressured QB in the NFL. By a significant margin.
Eli wasnt the problem here folks. He may not have been the solution but manning wasnt holding this shit show back. Many of us shouted this from the rooftops for months or years.
Jones has a lot of work to do. I love his ability, aura and demeanor and I think we got a great young qb but the giants can certainly ruin him just like they ruined Eli. Who we gonna blame in 2 years?
Eli wasnt the problem here folks. He may not have been the solution but manning wasnt holding this shit show back. Many of us shouted this from the rooftops for months or years.
Jones has a lot of work to do. I love his ability, aura and demeanor and I think we got a great young qb but the giants can certainly ruin him just like they ruined Eli. Who we gonna blame in 2 years?
Eli also wasn't the solution. You conveniently also neglected to mention the difference in salary or his age.
Here's the stat that matters against DAL/BUF.
0-2.
We scored 17 and 14 points in those two games with Manning. The Giants scored more points in Jones' first start (32) than each of the first two weeks combined. So, forget the yardage stuff - it's a weak, nonsense argument and a small sample size that we can do all sorts of twisting and turning on.
Barkley's ankle is still very clearly not right. So, Manning is the only one of the two who had 100% Saquon Barkley this year. Jones played half his games without Barkley entirely, and he's looked like 85% of the guy he was before since he's been back.
OL improvement will help him along with both of these btw
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fumble as much as he does.
I mean he's averaging 2 fumbles a game
However, and its prob because i hate him, i'm going to blame Shurmur. A good coach would coach him out of it.
He's not averaging two fumbles a game.
He's fumbling too much, but we don't need to exaggerate to make the point. He's started 7 games and fumbled 10 times.
Far too much. But, he doesn't have 14.
I d argue not all of those fumbles were his fault. He had 13 fumbles in his career at Duke. Fumbling has not been a significant problem for him until this season.
Every confidence he will fix it
This is an awful team and any QB would look bad playing for the Giants.
Jones has receivers who cannot separate, run wrong routes, and have limited receiving ability.
He has played with his top receiver sidelined most of the season.
The Giants receivers are at the bottom of the league with 2 yards average separation.
The offensive line has allowed 31 sacks in (8) games.
Jones has a 48% completion rate when under duress, but a 70% completion when he has a clean pocket.
The play calling is abysmal. last year Barkley had over 2,000 total yards including 721 yards receiving. I know that Barkley has been injured (which also hurt Jones) but what happened to the wheel route and spreading Barley out?
Jones is making making rookie mistakes but most are due to Jones trying to make a play. Diving forward while running for a first down, standing in the pocket too long, throwing into tight windows.
I would not be happy if Jones did not try to extend plays
I do not want a facilitator at QB. The Giants are building toward the future and allowing Jones to grow.
He is not the problem but part of the solution.