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Steve Tisch

Tony in Tampa : 11/6/2019 8:57 am
As much flack as Mara receives for his complacency and inaction (and rightly so since the problem with 8 years of losing starts at the top): will Tisch ever step up and say enough is enough?

I understand that Mara runs the football side and Tisch (as his father before him) leaves the day to day decisions up to Mara. I know Tisch is a Hollywood producer and the part of the Giants that he seems to love the most is hangout with the players on the sidelines during games. But if Mara appears content with the deterioration of a once proud franchise-one that his father and Tisch's father built-does Steve Tisch feel the same? The Tisches had a part to play in the Giants 80ís resurgence too.

Steve, step up. Tell John enough is enough. The house needs to be cleaned and that probably starts with Gettleman. We're looking at another losing season next yr with the same drum beat and likely some cosmetic changes. I have to think if Tisch raised his voice Mara would listen.
If Steve Tisch raises his voice  
90.Cal : 11/6/2019 9:01 am : link
This thing will turn around. Great.
People get furious when Tisch ever says anything  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/6/2019 9:05 am : link
but it's not like it's evident that Mara knows what he's doing. Tisch hasn't been the one leading this franchise to 2 to 5 win seasons.
I have mentioned this previously but it  
Thatís Gold, Jerry : 11/6/2019 9:05 am : link
is both of them but I think it is more insidious than that. Fact is, this team has a long history of ineptitude broken up by periods of excellence then followed by long periods of ineptitude.

I posted yesterday how, just in my lifetime as a Giants fan - 58 years - how often this team has been non competitive and missed the playoffs. We are the worst team in the NFC East in terms of playoff appearances since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970.

That speaks to problems within the Mara family and now the Mara-Tisch family. I mean Well and Tim Mara couldn't stand each other and if Pete Rozelle hadn't stepped in who knows what might have happened. The Maras were not in great shape financially in the early 90's until Bob Tisch came aboard and helped the team out in the aspect of revenue generation etc.

We, as fans, have to recognize the reality which is the Maras, in particular, have not been good stewards of this franchise.
RE: I have mentioned this previously but it  
Section331 : 11/6/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14666570 Thatís Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
is both of them but I think it is more insidious than that. Fact is, this team has a long history of ineptitude broken up by periods of excellence then followed by long periods of ineptitude.

I posted yesterday how, just in my lifetime as a Giants fan - 58 years - how often this team has been non competitive and missed the playoffs. We are the worst team in the NFC East in terms of playoff appearances since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970.

That speaks to problems within the Mara family and now the Mara-Tisch family. I mean Well and Tim Mara couldn't stand each other and if Pete Rozelle hadn't stepped in who knows what might have happened. The Maras were not in great shape financially in the early 90's until Bob Tisch came aboard and helped the team out in the aspect of revenue generation etc.

We, as fans, have to recognize the reality which is the Maras, in particular, have not been good stewards of this franchise.


Good post. There is a tendency to lionize Wellington, w/o acknowledging how awful he was for most of his tenure. The late 80's teams weren't on him, as Roselle forced George Young on him. I'll give Wellington the benefit of the last 2 SB teams, as Accorsi and TC were his hires.

Maybe John can mature into a better owner like his father did, but right now, I don't see it.
Obviously I have no clue how things operate  
ron mexico : 11/6/2019 9:14 am : link
but I feel like Tisch stays in his lane and is not the problem here.

He doesn't have a brother high up in the FO who treats it like a part time job
.  
GiantEgo : 11/6/2019 9:14 am : link
All the losing has to have an impact financially I have been waiting for a Tisch revolt.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2019 9:15 am : link
Jeez... you know it's gotten REAL bad when fans are hoping Steve Tisch will talk sense into John Mara.

Yikes.
How is losing having an economic impact?  
cosmicj : 11/6/2019 9:16 am : link
Honest question. How is this era affecting the value of the Giants?
RE: .  
GiantEgo : 11/6/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14666593 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Jeez... you know it's gotten REAL bad when fans are hoping Steve Tisch will talk sense into John Mara.

Yikes.


Not hoping for anything... just think there is bound to be discord
RE: How is losing having an economic impact?  
christian : 11/6/2019 9:21 am : link
In comment 14666595 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Honest question. How is this era affecting the value of the Giants?


Well, right off the bat, assuming all other revenue is equal (without an earning report who knows) not going to the playoffs most certainly impacts the bottomline.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 11/6/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14666611 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
In comment 14666593 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Jeez... you know it's gotten REAL bad when fans are hoping Steve Tisch will talk sense into John Mara.

Yikes.



Not hoping for anything... just think there is bound to be discord


You may not be - OP certainly is.
I could be wrong but doesn't the football operations  
robbieballs2003 : 11/6/2019 9:26 am : link
belong to Mara and the other shit belong to Tisch?
RE: How is losing having an economic impact?  
ron mexico : 11/6/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14666595 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Honest question. How is this era affecting the value of the Giants?


Concession sales at the stadium are a decent chunk of team revenue as the NFL doesn't take any of that. You have to think those are down significantly with the stands emptying out at half time. They also dont get the OBJ warmup boost like they used to.

The prices they can charge sponsors also have to drop during down periods.

You act like  
TrueBlue56 : 11/6/2019 9:29 am : link
Firing gettleman is the answer. Gettleman is 2 years into a full roster rebuild and next year is the first year he will have salary cap relief.

Let's fire gettleman and bring in someone else who brings in another head coach, who brings in a new staff, more changes to schemes and after 2 years we can do it again and again and again. It has worked with the jets, they are on their 4th head coach in 13 years and their 4th general manager. How about the browns? 7th head coach since 2009, their 6th general manager since 2009.

Dave gettleman took over a team that went through 7 years of bad drafts and a roster completely depleted of talent, but yeah let's keep turning the front and the roster over.
The Tisches played no  
Matt in SGS : 11/6/2019 9:46 am : link
part in the 1980s Giants resurgence because they didn't buy into the team until 1991 when Robert Tisch bought 50% from Tim Mara to partner with Wellington.

It was widely recognized that Tisch left the football decisions to the Maras but they got involved on the financial aspects. And do you know what most Giants fans (season ticket holders especially, as I was/am one) linked to Tisch? Buying pre-season games. Seriously. Prior to the early 1990s, pre-season games were optional for season ticket holders to buy. Most opted not to, and the tickets were available for purchase at the box office. Since Giants games had the long waiting list, this was the change for non-season ticket holders to see the team in person, even if for a short time and a pre-season setting. Tisch changed that and forced season ticket holders to buy the pre-season games at full price (which was the policy until it was changed a few years back that pre-season ticket prices went down and regular season ticket prices went up).

Anyway, go back and watch the LT jersey retirement ceremony in 1994 (I think it was LT, not Simms in 1995). When Tisch is announced, the fans boo the hell out of him. They did it because of the pre-season ticket mess.

Anyway, the ownership line of demarcation won't change. The Tisches handle the financial matters and marketing matters, and the Maras handle the football matters.
Matt your Giants story-telling  
Chris684 : 11/6/2019 9:52 am : link
is worthy of a radio show.

I did not know that pre-season ticket tale about Tisch but it's very interesting. Did Tisch's policy spread to the rest of the league as well?
I love how often  
darren in pdx : 11/6/2019 9:55 am : link
there are posts from people saying some certain person just has to say ĎEnough is enoughí or start yelling angrily like itíll magically fix everything. What reality do you live in that you think thatíll actually do something productive?
RE: Matt your Giants story-telling  
Matt in SGS : 11/6/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14666674 Chris684 said:
Quote:
is worthy of a radio show.

I did not know that pre-season ticket tale about Tisch but it's very interesting. Did Tisch's policy spread to the rest of the league as well?


I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised. From a business perspective it made sense. These were unsold tickets that would hit the market and people didn't buy them. Most preseason games were half full (or empty). He saw a way to essentially get 2 full games of revenue even if the fans didn't show up. At the time as a fan, you had no recourse. You buy the games or you give up your season tickets. Hence the venom from the fans. The Giants finally reacted to the fact that fans try to recoup money and sell the preseason games, and they would always take a bath since no one would pay full price on them. So what they did was keep the season ticket package the same price, and lower the preseason games and up the regular season games. The end result, if you are a fan who sells your seats, it works out better for you. But back in the 1990s, the Giants all these long time season ticket holders over a barrel.

But to be honest, you never wanted the Tisches talking football anyway. I've recounted this story on BBI many times, but Robert Tisch screwed up the Rodney Hampton free agency negotiation. In 1996, the Giants slapped the transition tag on Hampton, meaning they had a week to match any offer. The 49ers gave Hampton a decently sized deal. The Giants had a week to match. George Young wanted them to wait the full week in order to set up a number of other corresponding moves because the Niners were essentially paralyzed for a week until they knew if the Giants would match or not. Basically they had a competitive advantage as the Niners couldn't do anything. Anyway, Tisch was at a Ranger game and someone shoved a microphone in his face and asked him about Hampton a day or so after the Niners signed him. Tisch blurts out "oh, we're matching it, he's not leaving". (sad trombone) . The Giants officially announced the signing the next day and had the press conference and you could tell Young was pissed.

I was a season ticket holder back then.  
truebluelarry : 11/6/2019 10:27 am : link
My recollection is that the Giants were one of only 2 or 3 teams that hadn't required pre season ticket purchase as part of the season package. I'm not sure who the others were.
Yes, Steve Tisch mostly sticks to the financial ops  
Section331 : 11/6/2019 10:33 am : link
of the franchise, but what happens when operational dysfunction hits the bottom line? I don't know how true this is, but there were whispers that the McAdoo and Reese firings were influenced by Tisch putting his foot down.
That's the problem with the Giants ownership structure  
HomerJones45 : 11/6/2019 10:50 am : link
and always has been. I doubt Tisch is staying strictly to marketing and the financials. Just like Wellington's brother, sooner or later the temptation to get involved in football operations, especially when Wellington's progeny are bungling it badly, becomes too much.

That is how Rozelle got involved in the first place. The Mara siblings were arguing because the franchise was failing badly, Wellington refused to give up exclusive football control and his brother was complaining publicly and loudly. Rozelle stepped in (the company line is that Welly "requested" the Commissioner's assistance-yeah ok), and handed them George Young (who would never have taken the job otherwise) on the condition neither would interfere with Young's authority. (That became "owners own, GM's manage and coaches coach, which lasted until after the last SB).

History is no doubt repeating itself here.
Pre season ticket follow-up.  
truebluelarry : 11/6/2019 11:01 am : link
I did some digging in the NY Daily News archives and found these articles from April 1991:

https://i.imgur.com/vYDoRU1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aYDHPGv.jpg
This org is ineptly setup  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/6/2019 11:05 am : link
The problem seems to be Tisch has been more involved in decision making in the las decade. Says coaching search is going great!

Hires Ben Mcadoo.
And another alarming thing about Tisch  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/6/2019 11:12 am : link
that sets off the klaxons is the leak that Shermur had to put a powerpoint presentation for him explaining why we should trade obj. What kind of bureaucratic ineptitude is that?
RE: Pre season ticket follow-up.  
Matt in SGS : 11/6/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14666788 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
I did some digging in the NY Daily News archives and found these articles from April 1991:

https://i.imgur.com/vYDoRU1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aYDHPGv.jpg


Thanks Larry! I'm glad my memory still somewhat functions. My tickets have been in my family since Yankee Stadium and I split our seats with my cousin (though I got to 6 of the 8 games). I remember when this went down in the 1990s we were pissed because we had to pay all this additional money to see games that we didn't want to see. This was a big deal for season ticket holders, particularly the groups of fans who bought huge blocks of tickets and split it among family, workplaces, friends, etc. And Tisch's name was always attached to all the discussions around the ticket sales (as you showed in these clips), so the fans put this all on him and the fans did not like him at all and let him know it.
RE: RE: Pre season ticket follow-up.  
truebluelarry : 11/6/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14666825 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 14666788 truebluelarry said:


Quote:


I did some digging in the NY Daily News archives and found these articles from April 1991:

https://i.imgur.com/vYDoRU1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aYDHPGv.jpg



Thanks Larry! I'm glad my memory still somewhat functions. My tickets have been in my family since Yankee Stadium and I split our seats with my cousin (though I got to 6 of the 8 games). I remember when this went down in the 1990s we were pissed because we had to pay all this additional money to see games that we didn't want to see. This was a big deal for season ticket holders, particularly the groups of fans who bought huge blocks of tickets and split it among family, workplaces, friends, etc. And Tisch's name was always attached to all the discussions around the ticket sales (as you showed in these clips), so the fans put this all on him and the fans did not like him at all and let him know it.


Yep, me too. I had just graduated college in 1991 and the additional increase for the two pre season games was a huge deal to me at the time.

My family's season tickets went back to my grandfather purchasing them at Yankee Stadium around 1961 I believe. I gave them up after 2009 with the move to Met Life.
Larry  
Matt in SGS : 11/6/2019 11:29 am : link
what is also fascinating was the quote from Mara in that 1991 article that the Giants had a tough time coming to NY to play in the pre-season "because they can go elsewhere for more money". The pre-season schedule has always been this strange set up that I have been long curious how it is created.

It used to be very "Wild West" in how they were put together. I think for the most part, the teams themselves kind of pair up like at a dance and agree to the schedule, outside of some mandated games from the league for a promotional thing (ie- Hall of Fame game or a game in another city). That's why if you go back through the years it was always the Giants vs. Jets (easy to see why for both) and they play the Patriots every year (proximity and the Giants and Patriots have a long history together for many years with the Giants as the "NFC Boston" team since the 1960s). The other 2 games tend to be just a rotation among a few teams (Steelers, Jaguars, Bengals, Bears, etc).

But it's funny to see Mara try to explain forcing the fans to buy the tickets to help the Giants schedule games and share the proceeds with teams. We know already that the TV rights are negotiated locally. The Giants are on NBC now, but if you go back to the 1980s, it was PIX Channel 11 (Sam Rosen was the play by play guy). The Jets used to be on Channel 9. Bottom line, the Giants were leaving money on the table in the pre-season and they passed the cost on to the season ticket holders since no one was buying the games at the box office.
RE: Larry  
truebluelarry : 11/6/2019 11:36 am : link
In comment 14666869 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
what is also fascinating was the quote from Mara in that 1991 article that the Giants had a tough time coming to NY to play in the pre-season "because they can go elsewhere for more money". The pre-season schedule has always been this strange set up that I have been long curious how it is created.

It used to be very "Wild West" in how they were put together. I think for the most part, the teams themselves kind of pair up like at a dance and agree to the schedule, outside of some mandated games from the league for a promotional thing (ie- Hall of Fame game or a game in another city). That's why if you go back through the years it was always the Giants vs. Jets (easy to see why for both) and they play the Patriots every year (proximity and the Giants and Patriots have a long history together for many years with the Giants as the "NFC Boston" team since the 1960s). The other 2 games tend to be just a rotation among a few teams (Steelers, Jaguars, Bengals, Bears, etc).

But it's funny to see Mara try to explain forcing the fans to buy the tickets to help the Giants schedule games and share the proceeds with teams. We know already that the TV rights are negotiated locally. The Giants are on NBC now, but if you go back to the 1980s, it was PIX Channel 11 (Sam Rosen was the play by play guy). The Jets used to be on Channel 9. Bottom line, the Giants were leaving money on the table in the pre-season and they passed the cost on to the season ticket holders since no one was buying the games at the box office.


Given that the pre season games are not a part of the mega-lucrative network television contracts and broadcast locally via whatever deal the host team can work out with an independent affiliate (the Giants were on WPIX forever when I was growing up, and only as tape-delay) the main source of revenue was ticket sales. If 26 teams required season ticket holders to purchase tickets then the Giants would not be an attractive venue to visit.
And before Sam Rosen  
truebluelarry : 11/6/2019 11:37 am : link
it was Tim Ryan with Tucker Frederickson.

:-)
RE: And before Sam Rosen  
Matt in SGS : 11/6/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14666899 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
it was Tim Ryan with Tucker Frederickson.

:-)


Yup, and Bobby Duhan was in the booth with Sam.
RE: RE: How is losing having an economic impact?  
uther99 : 11/6/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14666630 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14666595 cosmicj said:


Quote:


Honest question. How is this era affecting the value of the Giants?



Concession sales at the stadium are a decent chunk of team revenue as the NFL doesn't take any of that. You have to think those are down significantly with the stands emptying out at half time. They also dont get the OBJ warmup boost like they used to.

The prices they can charge sponsors also have to drop during down periods.


I've read TV deals and sponsorships are the major sources of income. Tickets and concessions are not major factors
RE: Pre season ticket follow-up.  
Jints in Carolina : 11/6/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14666788 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
I did some digging in the NY Daily News archives and found these articles from April 1991:

https://i.imgur.com/vYDoRU1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aYDHPGv.jpg


My God...23 or 26 dollars per game in 1991
RE: RE: Pre season ticket follow-up.  
truebluelarry : 11/6/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14666976 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 14666788 truebluelarry said:


Quote:


I did some digging in the NY Daily News archives and found these articles from April 1991:

https://i.imgur.com/vYDoRU1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aYDHPGv.jpg



My God...23 or 26 dollars per game in 1991


That's cheaper than parking is today!
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