Quote. Belichick doesn't think the Giants job is attractive. He told both Josh McDaniels and Matt Patricia that is not the job you want.
That's a pretty bold statement to make if it's just his opinion. He said it as if its a fact like everyone inside the NFL knows it's true.
Anyone else hear it?
Plenty of coaches have said no thanks to the Giants. Fans of the Giants have a hard time believing this isn't a dream place to work, but it very well may be true.
That's why the whole thing with the full blaming of Reese with the draft picks doesn't hold water when you consider the history of Tom Coughlin.
Coughlin was about as much a control freak as anyone. He put plenty of work in to every detail of the job. Suddenly, around draft time, he sat in the corner and had nothing to say about which players were being selected to his roster?
I just find that difficult to believe. I believe both worked together to develop the mess they eventually left behind.
Another perfectly sourced news item. Definitely. Nobody else would have taken the job.
So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants.
However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run.
I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.
The Giants model will absolutely preclude them from landing most of the big names out there. Belichick would never come work for Gettleman, you’d have to clean house for his arrival. I assume that would even be true for McDaniels. You’re definitely not getting a big name college coach - Saban, Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley, Jim Harbaugh, Dabo Swinney, David Shaw - to come in and work as #3 in the football org structure. Those guys are program builders, CEO types. They want to run everything and if you’re hiring them they should run everything.
The best case for keeping Shurmur one more year might be that I cannot see them firing Gettleman this year, but they might fire both of them next year. Both need to go and the Giants need to modernize IMO if we’re going to make real progress.
He'd probably be smarter with coach's challenges.
So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants.
However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run.
I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.
Imagine missing on Belichick so we could hire a guy that doesn't know how to call timeouts or use his challenges.
Bunch of crap......
I do have a hard time believing that Belichick himself would take (or advise a trusted subordinate to take) a position where he'd have Chris Mara sitting at the table and making personnel decisions with him.
Bunch of crap......
Why is it hard to understand that maybe the Giants owners are better people than Irsay, but that Irsay is more hands off when it comes to football decisions?
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Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner".
I don't have actual audio, but apply some common sense.
Eli loses to the Bills and his career record falls to 116/116.
So he's one loss away, with a bad team, from falling to a career record below .500.
Do you think it's just a coincidence that he's hasn't played since?
I really hope you're not that naive...
LOL..subscribe to conspiracy theories too?
I went to the Buffalo game. When I walked out, I said it was time for a change and the only change that could pump life into the team was at QB.
We were 0-2 with the #6 pick in the draft sitting on the bench with no team having ZERO juice.
Wake up.
So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants.
However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run.
I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.
I know it's en vogue to trash Mara lately (and Matt I'm not talking about you, I understand you're just telling the story) but I have a really hard time believing John Mara wouldn't wait 2 more weeks if BB if he really felt he was considering coming.
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..not to take the Indy job after he accepted it too?
Bunch of crap......
Why is it hard to understand that maybe the Giants owners are better people than Irsay, but that Irsay is more hands off when it comes to football decisions?
JC - no issue with it as it could be true...I was just sorta busting on BB being the end all for deciding who goes where.......
Doesn't Mara also constantly get slammed for keeping things "familiar" or in the family so to speak?
BB was available for him and all he had to do was wait 2 weeks so he hired Pat Shurmur?
I don't believe it.
So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants.
However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run.
I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.
Giants not wanting to wait 2 weeks to hire the greatest coach of all time?
LOL..subscribe to conspiracy theories too?
I went to the Buffalo game. When I walked out, I said it was time for a change and the only change that could pump life into the team was at QB.
We were 0-2 with the #6 pick in the draft sitting on the bench with no team having ZERO juice.
Wake up.
You can ignore how these guys operate all you want. But Mara is motivated by perception, especially with his other son Eli.
And just to be clear, I wanted Jones to start from day one and Eli cut back in March. It was time to turn over the keys way before the Buffalo loss. So I had zero interest in another wasted Eli chapter...
But because Mara wanted to keep Eli - pick the reason: services rendered, hoping for another magic carpet ride, etc - Eli was going to be the starter.
And while we were 0-2, Eli wasn't playing horribly. We couldn't stop anyone in weeks 1 and 2, and Buffalo actually has a championship defense. So Eli's inability to create points against them wasn't so unusual in hindsight. Basically, we were getting exposed early as being a bad team on both sides of the ball.
But that record as the NY Giants QB was a big deal. It was discussed in the media and we covered it here. Mara absolutely was aware of it. So why continue to trot Eli out there to endure another painful, wasted, hopeless season? Once the record hit 116-116, and Eli knew the Jones switch was inevitable, it was a perfect time to segue to Jones...
I really have no idea why that would be such a stretch to think it's a conspiracy theory.
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LOL..subscribe to conspiracy theories too?
I went to the Buffalo game. When I walked out, I said it was time for a change and the only change that could pump life into the team was at QB.
We were 0-2 with the #6 pick in the draft sitting on the bench with no team having ZERO juice.
Wake up.
You can ignore how these guys operate all you want. But Mara is motivated by perception, especially with his other son Eli.
And just to be clear, I wanted Jones to start from day one and Eli cut back in March. It was time to turn over the keys way before the Buffalo loss. So I had zero interest in another wasted Eli chapter...
But because Mara wanted to keep Eli - pick the reason: services rendered, hoping for another magic carpet ride, etc - Eli was going to be the starter.
And while we were 0-2, Eli wasn't playing horribly. We couldn't stop anyone in weeks 1 and 2, and Buffalo actually has a championship defense. So Eli's inability to create points against them wasn't so unusual in hindsight. Basically, we were getting exposed early as being a bad team on both sides of the ball.
But that record as the NY Giants QB was a big deal. It was discussed in the media and we covered it here. Mara absolutely was aware of it. So why continue to trot Eli out there to endure another painful, wasted, hopeless season? Once the record hit 116-116, and Eli knew the Jones switch was inevitable, it was a perfect time to segue to Jones...
I really have no idea why that would be such a stretch to think it's a conspiracy theory.
Because you make it like that the ONLY reason they made the switch.
Owner sees record, pulls plug on Eli to save the QB.
I can put 10 reasons for a change over his career record.........but you elevate that to the reason to support your meddling owner theory.
And, Eli hasn't played since because it's not his team anymore. Again, you throw in something with zero relevance. Eli only plays if DJ gets hurt. Only way.
I think many of the Giants problems are based on this fact.
The son who took over for the deceased patriarch of the family held on too long to the last 2 great figures of this franchise that date back to his father.
Coughlin was hand picked by Wellington against Ernie's wishes. Do you think it was just a little bit hard for John to see him go?
Eli pulled a stunning comeback as Wellington was lying on his death bed in what came to be the last game he was actually alive for on his way to winning 2 Super Bowls.
We all might not like it but those two things have factored heavily in the decisions made since the end of 2015.
Because you make it like that the ONLY reason they made the switch.
Owner sees record, pulls plug on Eli to save the QB.
I can put 10 reasons for a change over his career record.........but you elevate that to the reason to support your meddling owner theory.
And, Eli hasn't played since because it's not his team anymore. Again, you throw in something with zero relevance. Eli only plays if DJ gets hurt. Only way.
I may not have been the only reason - true - but I believe it was the motivating reason.
Obviously I'm not going to persuade you, but I find it very funny that you think that record was "something with zero relevance" in the change.
Like I said, Eli was not the sole reason we were off to an 0-2 start. We were off to an 0-2 start because the team that Gettleman built is still not good and the coaches who have to coach this team are in way over their heads at this point...
Sign me up!
Plus BB wants the job for himself....lol
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Man, that IS eye opening.
He'd probably be smarter with coach's challenges.
Hell even Amy Schumer would be smarter with coach's challenges.
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what Canty is talking about was after the 2017 season when McAdoo imploded. If you remember, at the time Belichick was not in a good place with Kraft and Brady after the whole Jimmy G. trade. There were proxy stories in ESPN which slammed Brady and seemed to come from the Belichick camp.
So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants.
However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run.
I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.
I know it's en vogue to trash Mara lately (and Matt I'm not talking about you, I understand you're just telling the story) but I have a really hard time believing John Mara wouldn't wait 2 more weeks if BB if he really felt he was considering coming.
I think that's the key part. Both sides checked in on the other, but I don't think the Giants felt that Belichick was seriously going to leave and moved on to Shurmur. Again, rumors and innuendo abound.
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Because you make it like that the ONLY reason they made the switch.
Owner sees record, pulls plug on Eli to save the QB.
I can put 10 reasons for a change over his career record.........but you elevate that to the reason to support your meddling owner theory.
And, Eli hasn't played since because it's not his team anymore. Again, you throw in something with zero relevance. Eli only plays if DJ gets hurt. Only way.
I may not have been the only reason - true - but I believe it was the motivating reason.
Obviously I'm not going to persuade you, but I find it very funny that you think that record was "something with zero relevance" in the change.
Like I said, Eli was not the sole reason we were off to an 0-2 start. We were off to an 0-2 start because the team that Gettleman built is still not good and the coaches who have to coach this team are in way over their heads at this point...
Never said the record was zero relevance. That was reference to why he's not back on the field. Eli's career as QB is OVER. It's Daniel Jones team.
Do you think if DJ gets hurt, they bring in Tanney or someone so Eli perserves his record?? LOL
You make the case he's not back on the field because of his record.
The record, as I said, was like 10th or 11th in a list of reasons to bench Eli.
I'd pick a broken action figure over Josh McDaniels
There is no best friend, is there?
It's ok, we know.
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Has been telling me that Schumer, was only one hat would take the job, since he was hired. How far the mighty have fallen.
There is no best friend, is there?
It's ok, we know.
Maybe it's Chuck...
Amy?
Perhaps when Wellington passed and Arcosi retired more Mara's stuck their nose in but hopefully they are moving away from that. Still, they care about the players and that means something.
I'm sorry but if a coach wins here there are not many places that are better. It's tough to win in NY period and to do with a iconic franchise is pretty special. The networks like to hammer us because it is such a big market for them imo.
For the players it a special place to win. Many have long careers in entertainment long after. For those who win a Super Bowl, can you beat the parade in NYC?
Things are bad fellas but the Giants are stil in NY and one of the flagship franchises in the league run by ownership who is respected in league circles.
Ask the other teams what they think of the Pats. It's the equivalent of saying how much you love a coach that you just beat by 30 points in College FB.
You 'respect them because they run a clean program that does things the right way'.
But Patricia choosing the Lions over the Giants (by most accounts) says a lot.
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Man, that IS eye opening.
He'd probably be smarter with coach's challenges.
Pretty low bar....
Things are bad fellas but the Giants are stil in NY and one of the flagship franchises in the league run by ownership who is respected in league circles.
You're right. So are the Knicks.
Let that one sink in.
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Chris has been saying this basically since the Shurmur hire. There’s no way in hell somebody would choose Shurmur over two of the hottest young coordinator head coaching candidates at the time.
I'd pick a broken action figure over Josh McDaniels
Which one? Hulk, maybe?
Agree with this. It gets stated as fact frequently that Giants ownership is meddling, but none of us have any idea if that is true. Just because he wants to be informed before they bench the franchise QB it does not equate to meddling.
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When they wanted to bench Eli and break his consecutive game streak for a nobody backup did he stop them. When they wanted to bench Eli this year after he said he wanted Eli to play the whole year did he stop them. These are two publicly know instances of Mara not meddling. Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner".
Agree with this. It gets stated as fact frequently that Giants ownership is meddling, but none of us have any idea if that is true. Just because he wants to be informed before they bench the franchise QB it does not equate to meddling.
He absolutely had to sign off on Eli's benching - he just walked it back after the backlash made them look so bad.
And do we know how involved the Maras are in personnel decisions? Well - look at Chris Mara's title:
https://www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/chris-mara - ( New Window )
So, the first time he speaks out negatively about a player or organization will be the Giants? A team that he has some deep fondness for?
I will believe it when I hear it coming out of his mouth...not Canty's.
That being said, I would not be surprised if coaches and players determine on their own that this is not the place to be. I often argued that we end up with scraps in free agency because some of the better players simply dont want to play here.
Succeeding in NY is better than anywhere else and everyone knows it.
Succeeding in NY is better than anywhere else and everyone knows it.
Right - because what Canty is implying is it's not special to succeed in NY.
Look no further than the Knicks - everyone knows that the person(s) to take the Knicks to the promised land will be revered at probably a higher level than they deserve.
That hasn't made it any easier for them to land quality personnel, because the shitheel who owns the team is so caustic that he has hindered success.
Is Mara as bad? Probably not. Given the choice, would a Patricia want to go to Detroit, where the media pressure is much less and the GM is a former colleague from NE? Would he consider bypassing that for a team that had spent several years struggling and has a co-owner holding a senior personnel title?
Not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand.
Other people interviewed for the job, so it's safe to say they wanted it.
There are only 32 of these positions in the world. There isn't a HC job in the league that would only have one guy take interest.
Your best friend is an idiot, and you are naive.
I could see at the time of the last opening a concern with how the Eli situation would play out, and it has cost the franchise 2 years and substantial cap space. Other than that, what franchise that has had a job open over the last few years would you say is better?
Jets?
Cin?
Wash?
AZ (fired coach after 1 season)?
Browns?
Det?
Den (Elway running the franchise)?
Tampa?
....maybe GB, but then you inherit an aging Rodgers, both the good & bad.
All openings look bad at the time, but if you get the chance to be a HC in the NFL with a franchise like NYG, you grab hold of it.
[quote] That the Giants way of doing things is antiquated, must be a perception that’s out there. Specifically the approach of hiring a GM - particularly a dinosaur like Gettleman - then hiring a coach and having the coach report to the GM. You look around the league and top coaches have a ton of power, often they are the most powerful football person on staff. Belichick is an extreme example, but you see it elsewhere as well. Or you try to hire a coach and GM in tandem, guys who have a prior history together, share a philosophy, etc.
The Giants model will absolutely preclude them from landing most of the big names out there. Belichick would never come work for Gettleman, you’d have to clean house for his arrival. I assume that would even be true for McDaniels. You’re definitely not getting a big name college coach - Saban, Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley, Jim Harbaugh, Dabo Swinney, David Shaw - to come in and work as #3 in the football org structure. Those guys are program builders, CEO types. They want to run everything and if you’re hiring them they should run everything.
Very well said. I think the job would still be attractive to many big name coaches if (and only if) they were given some major power in terms of personnel decisions. No big name guy is likely to come here to play second fiddle - especially to an egomaniac like Gettleman. If one did, I could see a power struggle taking place rather quickly.