Anyone else hear what Chris Canty just said on ESPN NY?

We are stuck with this clown owner too.

Anyone who thinks TC, with 2 rings and a shot at the HOF, didn't have major say please come see me about a slightly used bridge I have for sale. There were articles about how they were going to dial HC input back when BM was hired. By his second draft, there were articles how he still had input.

Plenty of coaches have said no thanks to the Giants. Fans of the Giants have a hard time believing this isn't a dream place to work, but it very well may be true.

Ought to deflate anyone’s wild dreams that BB would come back here!

That had to deal with the benching of Eli and starting his replacement was destined to fail. It was good advice for Patricia and McDaniels...then. Now that Eli is no longer QB, I think the job is MUCH more attractive.

In comment 14667130 Section331 said:

Quote:

In comment 14667100 BillT said: Quote: When they wanted to bench Eli and break his consecutive game streak for a nobody backup did he stop them. When they wanted to bench Eli this year after he said he wanted Eli to play the whole year did he stop them. These are two publicly know instances of Mara not meddling. Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner". That is fair, but don't think other candidates didn't notice when Mara threw McAdoo head first under that bus when the Eli benching decision went south. I think McAdoo was awful (even during the playoff season, it was smoke and mirrors), but Mara went along with the plan, and then blamed McAdoo when fans got outraged.

The question was is Mara meddling. How does this show meddling. Do you think as owner he should have the right to fire his GM and coach? If he does is that meddling.

are not good.

We went from the Mannings WANTING Eli to come to the Giants to Belichek not wanting his assistants to take jobs here.

This is very, very concerning. I fell sorry for the folks who paid for these PSL's. Seems like a fate worse than being trapped in a bad time share.

In comment 14667125 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14667100 BillT said: Quote: When they wanted to bench Eli and break his consecutive game streak for a nobody backup did he stop them. When they wanted to bench Eli this year after he said he wanted Eli to play the whole year did he stop them. These are two publicly know instances of Mara not meddling. Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner". I really don't want to re-litigate this, but your comments are the exact opposite of what actually transpired.

Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner".

In comment 14667043 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

random for Canty to just make this up. was there more context? I don't doubt it could be true that Bill said this, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he didn't. Just not clear on why Canty would make it up. Seems like one of those things to file away and access when/if more information like this leaks.

Same boat here. This could easily have leaked out from someone associated with either Patricia or McDaniels. The Giants were rumored to be interested in Patricia, maybe it was less than confidential that BB told Patricia to not consider it?

Seems like the kind of thing that would be too easy to shoot down if Canty just outright made it up.

In comment 14667140 BillT said:

Quote:

The question was is Mara meddling. How does this show meddling. Do you think as owner he should have the right to fire his GM and coach? If he does is that meddling.

I agree for the most part that there is little evidence of Mara "meddling", although his insistence on having final word in HC/GM hires may give candidates pause. My comment was only about how poorly he handled the Eli benching situation, and how that impacts how he is viewed by the league.

In comment 14667143 BillT said:

Quote:

Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner".

I don't have actual audio, but apply some common sense.

Eli loses to the Bills and his career record falls to 116/116.

So he's one loss away, with a bad team, from falling to a career record below .500.

Do you think it's just a coincidence that he's hasn't played since?

I really hope you're not that naive...

Has been telling me that Schumer, was only one hat would take the job, since he was hired. How far the mighty have fallen.

In the ESPN profile of him a few years back he tearfully called the Giants "the greatest organization in sports".

In comment 14667134 fkap said:

Quote:

Anyone who thinks TC, with 2 rings and a shot at the HOF, didn't have major say please come see me about a slightly used bridge I have for sale. There were articles about how they were going to dial HC input back when BM was hired. By his second draft, there were articles how he still had input. Plenty of coaches have said no thanks to the Giants. Fans of the Giants have a hard time believing this isn't a dream place to work, but it very well may be true.

That's why the whole thing with the full blaming of Reese with the draft picks doesn't hold water when you consider the history of Tom Coughlin.

Coughlin was about as much a control freak as anyone. He put plenty of work in to every detail of the job. Suddenly, around draft time, he sat in the corner and had nothing to say about which players were being selected to his roster?

I just find that difficult to believe. I believe both worked together to develop the mess they eventually left behind.

In comment 14667162 Spike13 said:

Quote:

Has been telling me that Schumer, was only one hat would take the job, since he was hired. How far the mighty have fallen.

Another perfectly sourced news item. Definitely. Nobody else would have taken the job.

Man, that IS eye opening.

..

what Canty is talking about was after the 2017 season when McAdoo imploded. If you remember, at the time Belichick was not in a good place with Kraft and Brady after the whole Jimmy G. trade. There were proxy stories in ESPN which slammed Brady and seemed to come from the Belichick camp.

So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants.

However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run.

I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.

That the Giants way of doing things is antiquated, must be a perception that’s out there. Specifically the approach of hiring a GM - particularly a dinosaur like Gettleman - then hiring a coach and having the coach report to the GM. You look around the league and top coaches have a ton of power, often they are the most powerful football person on staff. Belichick is an extreme example, but you see it elsewhere as well. Or you try to hire a coach and GM in tandem, guys who have a prior history together, share a philosophy, etc.

The Giants model will absolutely preclude them from landing most of the big names out there. Belichick would never come work for Gettleman, you’d have to clean house for his arrival. I assume that would even be true for McDaniels. You’re definitely not getting a big name college coach - Saban, Urban Meyer, Lincoln Riley, Jim Harbaugh, Dabo Swinney, David Shaw - to come in and work as #3 in the football org structure. Those guys are program builders, CEO types. They want to run everything and if you’re hiring them they should run everything.

The best case for keeping Shurmur one more year might be that I cannot see them firing Gettleman this year, but they might fire both of them next year. Both need to go and the Giants need to modernize IMO if we’re going to make real progress.

In comment 14667185 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Man, that IS eye opening.

He'd probably be smarter with coach's challenges.

In comment 14667191 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

what Canty is talking about was after the 2017 season when McAdoo imploded. If you remember, at the time Belichick was not in a good place with Kraft and Brady after the whole Jimmy G. trade. There were proxy stories in ESPN which slammed Brady and seemed to come from the Belichick camp. So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants. However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run. I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.

Imagine missing on Belichick so we could hire a guy that doesn't know how to call timeouts or use his challenges.

Chris has been saying this basically since the Shurmur hire. There’s no way in hell somebody would choose Shurmur over two of the hottest young coordinator head coaching candidates at the time.

..not to take the Indy job after he accepted it too?

Bunch of crap......

waiting out Belichick and hired Shurmur instead. That one doesn't pass the smell test.

I do have a hard time believing that Belichick himself would take (or advise a trusted subordinate to take) a position where he'd have Chris Mara sitting at the table and making personnel decisions with him.

In comment 14667221 BillKo said:

Quote:

..not to take the Indy job after he accepted it too? Bunch of crap......

Why is it hard to understand that maybe the Giants owners are better people than Irsay, but that Irsay is more hands off when it comes to football decisions?

In comment 14667152 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14667143 BillT said: Quote: Anyone have anything to back up "Mara is s meddling owner". I don't have actual audio, but apply some common sense. Eli loses to the Bills and his career record falls to 116/116. So he's one loss away, with a bad team, from falling to a career record below .500. Do you think it's just a coincidence that he's hasn't played since? I really hope you're not that naive...

LOL..subscribe to conspiracy theories too?

I went to the Buffalo game. When I walked out, I said it was time for a change and the only change that could pump life into the team was at QB.

We were 0-2 with the #6 pick in the draft sitting on the bench with no team having ZERO juice.

Wake up.

given Mara's personality and risk averse nature.

In comment 14667191 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

what Canty is talking about was after the 2017 season when McAdoo imploded. If you remember, at the time Belichick was not in a good place with Kraft and Brady after the whole Jimmy G. trade. There were proxy stories in ESPN which slammed Brady and seemed to come from the Belichick camp. So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants. However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run. I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.

I know it's en vogue to trash Mara lately (and Matt I'm not talking about you, I understand you're just telling the story) but I have a really hard time believing John Mara wouldn't wait 2 more weeks if BB if he really felt he was considering coming.

In comment 14667226 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14667221 BillKo said: Quote: ..not to take the Indy job after he accepted it too? Bunch of crap...... Why is it hard to understand that maybe the Giants owners are better people than Irsay, but that Irsay is more hands off when it comes to football decisions?

JC - no issue with it as it could be true...I was just sorta busting on BB being the end all for deciding who goes where.......

It was anecdotal; I didn’t preface my statement with anything that could be construed as “asshat,” information, just ones speculation/opinion.

In comment 14667234 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

given Mara's personality and risk averse nature.

Doesn't Mara also constantly get slammed for keeping things "familiar" or in the family so to speak?

BB was available for him and all he had to do was wait 2 weeks so he hired Pat Shurmur?

I don't believe it.

In comment 14667191 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

what Canty is talking about was after the 2017 season when McAdoo imploded. If you remember, at the time Belichick was not in a good place with Kraft and Brady after the whole Jimmy G. trade. There were proxy stories in ESPN which slammed Brady and seemed to come from the Belichick camp. So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants. However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run. I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way.

Giants not wanting to wait 2 weeks to hire the greatest coach of all time?

In comment 14667232 BillKo said:

Quote:

LOL..subscribe to conspiracy theories too? I went to the Buffalo game. When I walked out, I said it was time for a change and the only change that could pump life into the team was at QB. We were 0-2 with the #6 pick in the draft sitting on the bench with no team having ZERO juice. Wake up.

You can ignore how these guys operate all you want. But Mara is motivated by perception, especially with his other son Eli.

And just to be clear, I wanted Jones to start from day one and Eli cut back in March. It was time to turn over the keys way before the Buffalo loss. So I had zero interest in another wasted Eli chapter...

But because Mara wanted to keep Eli - pick the reason: services rendered, hoping for another magic carpet ride, etc - Eli was going to be the starter.

And while we were 0-2, Eli wasn't playing horribly. We couldn't stop anyone in weeks 1 and 2, and Buffalo actually has a championship defense. So Eli's inability to create points against them wasn't so unusual in hindsight. Basically, we were getting exposed early as being a bad team on both sides of the ball.

But that record as the NY Giants QB was a big deal. It was discussed in the media and we covered it here. Mara absolutely was aware of it. So why continue to trot Eli out there to endure another painful, wasted, hopeless season? Once the record hit 116-116, and Eli knew the Jones switch was inevitable, it was a perfect time to segue to Jones...

I really have no idea why that would be such a stretch to think it's a conspiracy theory.

are the new Cleveland Browns?

In comment 14667262 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14667232 BillKo said: Quote: LOL..subscribe to conspiracy theories too? I went to the Buffalo game. When I walked out, I said it was time for a change and the only change that could pump life into the team was at QB. We were 0-2 with the #6 pick in the draft sitting on the bench with no team having ZERO juice. Wake up. You can ignore how these guys operate all you want. But Mara is motivated by perception, especially with his other son Eli. And just to be clear, I wanted Jones to start from day one and Eli cut back in March. It was time to turn over the keys way before the Buffalo loss. So I had zero interest in another wasted Eli chapter... But because Mara wanted to keep Eli - pick the reason: services rendered, hoping for another magic carpet ride, etc - Eli was going to be the starter. And while we were 0-2, Eli wasn't playing horribly. We couldn't stop anyone in weeks 1 and 2, and Buffalo actually has a championship defense. So Eli's inability to create points against them wasn't so unusual in hindsight. Basically, we were getting exposed early as being a bad team on both sides of the ball. But that record as the NY Giants QB was a big deal. It was discussed in the media and we covered it here. Mara absolutely was aware of it. So why continue to trot Eli out there to endure another painful, wasted, hopeless season? Once the record hit 116-116, and Eli knew the Jones switch was inevitable, it was a perfect time to segue to Jones... I really have no idea why that would be such a stretch to think it's a conspiracy theory.

Because you make it like that the ONLY reason they made the switch.

Owner sees record, pulls plug on Eli to save the QB.

I can put 10 reasons for a change over his career record.........but you elevate that to the reason to support your meddling owner theory.

And, Eli hasn't played since because it's not his team anymore. Again, you throw in something with zero relevance. Eli only plays if DJ gets hurt. Only way.

Good, bad or indifferent, anyone who has been a fan of this team over the years knows this to be the case.

I think many of the Giants problems are based on this fact.

The son who took over for the deceased patriarch of the family held on too long to the last 2 great figures of this franchise that date back to his father.

Coughlin was hand picked by Wellington against Ernie's wishes. Do you think it was just a little bit hard for John to see him go?

Eli pulled a stunning comeback as Wellington was lying on his death bed in what came to be the last game he was actually alive for on his way to winning 2 Super Bowls.

We all might not like it but those two things have factored heavily in the decisions made since the end of 2015.

Actually the Browns would be a step up since the start of 2017. Since that time the Giants have lost the most games in the NFL. More losses than the Browns who went 0-16 one of those years.

In comment 14667271 BillKo said:

Quote:

Because you make it like that the ONLY reason they made the switch. Owner sees record, pulls plug on Eli to save the QB. I can put 10 reasons for a change over his career record.........but you elevate that to the reason to support your meddling owner theory. And, Eli hasn't played since because it's not his team anymore. Again, you throw in something with zero relevance. Eli only plays if DJ gets hurt. Only way.

I may not have been the only reason - true - but I believe it was the motivating reason.

Obviously I'm not going to persuade you, but I find it very funny that you think that record was "something with zero relevance" in the change.

Like I said, Eli was not the sole reason we were off to an 0-2 start. We were off to an 0-2 start because the team that Gettleman built is still not good and the coaches who have to coach this team are in way over their heads at this point...

the top of your list? We had an aging QB on the decline, horrible line and very little young talent on either side of the ball to build around. Also a lot of cap issues. We also just fired a coach after less than 2 seasons. And our FO runs things like it has for 100 years.

Sign me up!

Plus BB wants the job for himself....lol

In comment 14667206 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

In comment 14667185 Greg from LI said: Quote: Man, that IS eye opening. He'd probably be smarter with coach's challenges.

Hell even Amy Schumer would be smarter with coach's challenges.

Great coaches want the challenge. Parcells went to the Pats,Jets and Cowboys when those teams were at the absolute bottom.

In comment 14667242 Chris684 said:

Quote:

In comment 14667191 Matt in SGS said: Quote: what Canty is talking about was after the 2017 season when McAdoo imploded. If you remember, at the time Belichick was not in a good place with Kraft and Brady after the whole Jimmy G. trade. There were proxy stories in ESPN which slammed Brady and seemed to come from the Belichick camp. So the story goes (rumors abound), the Giants had intermediaries with Belichick and the Giants did not hire a replacement with the thought being the new coach would come from the Patriots staff. The part missing was that Belichick had interest in returning to the Giants after 2017 and wanted the job for himself. He didn't try to end around Patricia or McDaniels, if I recall both actually interviewed. But the feelers were out there to have Belichick return to the Giants. However, the Patriots win the AFC title game, forcing the Giants to wait another 2 weeks for the Super Bowl, but instead of waiting things out with Belichick, they hired Shurmur who was the hot assistant after the Vikings run. I'd be shocked if Belichick was slamming the Giants org in any way. I know it's en vogue to trash Mara lately (and Matt I'm not talking about you, I understand you're just telling the story) but I have a really hard time believing John Mara wouldn't wait 2 more weeks if BB if he really felt he was considering coming.

I think that's the key part. Both sides checked in on the other, but I don't think the Giants felt that Belichick was seriously going to leave and moved on to Shurmur. Again, rumors and innuendo abound.

In comment 14667291 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14667271 BillKo said: Quote: Because you make it like that the ONLY reason they made the switch. Owner sees record, pulls plug on Eli to save the QB. I can put 10 reasons for a change over his career record.........but you elevate that to the reason to support your meddling owner theory. And, Eli hasn't played since because it's not his team anymore. Again, you throw in something with zero relevance. Eli only plays if DJ gets hurt. Only way. I may not have been the only reason - true - but I believe it was the motivating reason. Obviously I'm not going to persuade you, but I find it very funny that you think that record was "something with zero relevance" in the change. Like I said, Eli was not the sole reason we were off to an 0-2 start. We were off to an 0-2 start because the team that Gettleman built is still not good and the coaches who have to coach this team are in way over their heads at this point...

Never said the record was zero relevance. That was reference to why he's not back on the field. Eli's career as QB is OVER. It's Daniel Jones team.

Do you think if DJ gets hurt, they bring in Tanney or someone so Eli perserves his record?? LOL

You make the case he's not back on the field because of his record.

The record, as I said, was like 10th or 11th in a list of reasons to bench Eli.

In comment 14667215 MtDizzle said:

Quote:

Chris has been saying this basically since the Shurmur hire. There’s no way in hell somebody would choose Shurmur over two of the hottest young coordinator head coaching candidates at the time.

I'd pick a broken action figure over Josh McDaniels

In comment 14667162 Spike13 said:

Quote:

Has been telling me that Schumer, was only one hat would take the job, since he was hired. How far the mighty have fallen.

There is no best friend, is there?

It's ok, we know.

In comment 14667318 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14667162 Spike13 said: Quote: Has been telling me that Schumer, was only one hat would take the job, since he was hired. How far the mighty have fallen. There is no best friend, is there? It's ok, we know.

Maybe it's Chuck...

Amy?

Some bumps along the way but in the picture of things I am happy to be a fan.

Perhaps when Wellington passed and Arcosi retired more Mara's stuck their nose in but hopefully they are moving away from that. Still, they care about the players and that means something.

I'm sorry but if a coach wins here there are not many places that are better. It's tough to win in NY period and to do with a iconic franchise is pretty special. The networks like to hammer us because it is such a big market for them imo.

For the players it a special place to win. Many have long careers in entertainment long after. For those who win a Super Bowl, can you beat the parade in NYC?

Are a better landing spot than the Giants. Seems totally reasonable. The Fords are not held in nearly as high regard around the league than the Maras and the never being in a Super Bowl seems to prove it. Also it is widely known the Belichek has a strong relationship with John Mara so this just seems like Canty shooting his mouth off.

Things are bad fellas but the Giants are stil in NY and one of the flagship franchises in the league run by ownership who is respected in league circles.

means easy to beat and win against.

Ask the other teams what they think of the Pats. It's the equivalent of saying how much you love a coach that you just beat by 30 points in College FB.

You 'respect them because they run a clean program that does things the right way'.

Not sure what to believe...

But Patricia choosing the Lions over the Giants (by most accounts) says a lot.

In comment 14667206 Mr. Bungle said:

Quote:

In comment 14667185 Greg from LI said: Quote: Man, that IS eye opening. He'd probably be smarter with coach's challenges.

Pretty low bar....