Sy'56's Giants-Cowboys Game Review Now Available

but sorry you had to watch that game again....lol

Depressing, but great work.

I agree with you on the Kris Richard mention - not that I really know his work, but when everyone else is looking for the next big offensive guru to work their magic with Jones, I'd rather have a defensive minded coach for the next guy. I'd rather someone else have the responsibility for getting the most out of the QB, someone whose full time job isn't getting the entire team to produce and who can narrow in their focus on just Jones.

but sobering.

I ragged on Peppers after the last game, and he played better. Maybe I should try Saquon. He ran soft in school, but last year I had hopes he would be able to change his game enough to be a consistently effective NFL RB. Consistency is the best trait a RB can offer an NFL team, and vital for the way the Giants are trying to play offense. I spent much of the game wondering how much more effective Ahmad Bradshaw would have been playing in it.

Saquon is a wonderful athlete in incredible shape. I wonder if he's in love with his own physical perfection, and protecting it is his top priority? I remember a play of his I watched in college where two tacklers converged on him who were sure to make the tackle. His response? He lay down and curled up. Literally.

I remember a Bradshaw opponent say that trying to tackle him was like trying to tackle an alligator. Maybe Saquon needs a little gator.

.

In comment 14667742 TC said:

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but sobering. I ragged on Peppers after the last game, and he played better. Maybe I should try Saquon. He ran soft in school, but last year I had hopes he would be able to change his game enough to be a consistently effective NFL RB. Consistency is the best trait a RB can offer an NFL team, and vital for the way the Giants are trying to play offense. I spent much of the game wondering how much more effective Ahmad Bradshaw would have been playing in it. Saquon is a wonderful athlete in incredible shape. I wonder if he's in love with his own physical perfection, and protecting it is his top priority? I remember a play of his I watched in college where two tacklers converged on him who were sure to make the tackle. His response? He lay down and curled up. Literally. I remember a Bradshaw opponent say that trying to tackle him was like trying to tackle an alligator. Maybe Saquon needs a little gator.

Love Bradshaw, but his style was really hard on his body. He has the hardware to show for it though.

Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough.

He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse.

In comment 14667748 Torrag said:

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Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse.

Jon is hurt now and a free agent. Hoping him and Bethea never see the field again wearing a giant uniform. They have cost us games more than anyone else on this team.

when your team's offense is primarily in the shotgun. That's also true of offensive linemen when it comes to physical run-blocking. And yet Shurmur for some inconceivable reason has fallen in love with the shotgun formation ever since Daniel Jones was inserted into the starting lineup. Look at Barkley's highlight film from last season. Look at Jones' success in the preseason. You will see a lot more of the QB under center, downhill running, and play-action passing off of it. As for the refusal to run the ball outside/off tackle or the lack of plays in which Barkley is in space, blame the play caller/designer. As I said weeks ago, this offense should look the way Minnesota's does right now. Dalvin Cook running with a fullback and tight end or multiple tight ends in front of him, then downfield play action passing off of it. Elijhaa Penny is as much of a waste of a roster spot as Tanney if the coach refuses to use him. I'm not completely absolving Barkley of blame (I don't think he's been the same since the injury), but I don't see how any back could be successful lining up in the shotgun this much behind this offensive line.

You can envy EE, but he's just a different player than Barkley. EE is a steady pounder, while Saquon is a HR hitter. Barkley has more 40 yard plays already than EE has in his entire career. Since the start of last season, Saquon has more 20+ yard runs than EE despite 113 less carries. Imagine if the play caller/designer actually ran the ball outside/off the edges.

I'm still not sure how the Jones' run is a fumble if the play is supposed to be dead as soon as he dives headfirst or slides.

Carter and Ximines get blocked WAY too easily on running plays by opposing tight ends.

Yep, saw that about Barkley..He hesitates far too much. I see holes, that close because he hasn't hit it quick enough. And why does Shurmur always take the guy out after a big play? Always. Is his conditioning so bad he can't stay out.

I think Jones takes far too long to pull the trigger on checkdowns. You can see Barkley or Gallman in the flat, wideopen and Jones just ignores it until a LB gets there leaving no gain. Maybe that goes to your thoughts on not using Barkley in space.

Thought Carter was giving the LT fits - 2 holding penalties. But too much overpusuit by the back side end or LB gave Zeke all those yards.

Mayo and Ogletree are just too damn slow. Mayo sees the play, he tries to get there, just too late, always a step late.

Agree that Ballentine was good to see out there and much better than Haley.

That would be funny if it were not for the fact that it is tragic.

It looks like he will finally not be starting, but only because of an injury.

In comment 14667766 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:

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That would be funny if it were not for the fact that it is tragic. It looks like he will finally not be starting, but only because of an injury.

Thought that was a strange quote. If he was just standing there, why did Saquon just run into him? Yes it did happen and yes I did see that and said WTF. I also saw another one where Saquon either tripped over his own feet or Michael Bennett seemed to stick his foot out to trip him - 4th qtr -but there was a huge hole and Barkley got two yards.

hope it is the injury, but he looks so tentative, weak and slow to the point of attack on run plays.

It is so stark how much more physical, agressive and productive Elliot looks compared to Barkley. Not good.

As a theme in your review, the team is physically soft and mentally soft as well.

10 - 31 since the start of 2017

Horrible

He’s injured with a bad leg (running backs use their legs sometimes don’t they?) and playing behind a line that can’t block with a rookie QB that probably can’t read the defense and a clueless coaching staff that doesn’t know enough to sit him. But sure, he’s soft and tentative. Ridiculous.

In comment 14667748 Torrag said:

Quote:

Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse.

Between Hunter and Shurmur you don't know who shoulders more blame for choosing him?

Does Gettleman get any credit for picking the players on the roster?

In comment 14667742 TC said:

Quote:

but sobering. I ragged on Peppers after the last game, and he played better. Maybe I should try Saquon. He ran soft in school, but last year I had hopes he would be able to change his game enough to be a consistently effective NFL RB. Consistency is the best trait a RB can offer an NFL team, and vital for the way the Giants are trying to play offense. I spent much of the game wondering how much more effective Ahmad Bradshaw would have been playing in it. Saquon is a wonderful athlete in incredible shape. I wonder if he's in love with his own physical perfection, and protecting it is his top priority? I remember a play of his I watched in college where two tacklers converged on him who were sure to make the tackle. His response? He lay down and curled up. Literally. I remember a Bradshaw opponent say that trying to tackle him was like trying to tackle an alligator. Maybe Saquon needs a little gator.

I recall announcers saying that Bradshaw used to run "angry"!

In comment 14667780 trueblueinpw said:

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He’s injured with a bad leg (running backs use their legs sometimes don’t they?) and playing behind a line that can’t block with a rookie QB that probably can’t read the defense and a clueless coaching staff that doesn’t know enough to sit him. But sure, he’s soft and tentative. Ridiculous.

I wouldn't call him soft but he has been tentative and hesitates to hit a hole where he could get 4 yds but instead tries for the big move resulting in no yds, 2nd and 6 is a lot better than 2nd and 10.

He was getting hit in the backfield on almost every run. Last week was the same. With the Dallas OL he would have run for 200.

the draft. I don't think he's suggesting that Barkley is soft, I think he sees his play regressing and isn't sure how much of it is getting popped behind the line on a regular basis and how much of it is the injury.

But if you see Barkley now and think he's the same player as last season, I don't think we're watching the same game.

Soft. Between how he's being used by Shurmur and how he's running it's a big disappointment and so obvious. And at this point I don't know how they stop Jones fumbling issues but it can't continue. Rookie or no rookie. I expect interceptions by a rookie but not this epidemic of fumbles.

Just a clarification, he has fumbled 10 times. He has lost 8 of those fumbles. He recovered one and an OL recovered another. It needs to stop.

The bigger concern is his pocket presence and internal clock. He has been sacked 26 times. Yes, we know the OL isn't good. It has been the NY Giants legacy for a decade. But he needs to speed up his reads and get rid of the ball. Being a tackling dummy isn't courageous/heroic.

doesn't just take whats there, he looks for a big play on every touch

poor in-line blocking, but he was supposed to be a good blocker v lb's and db's, yet it seems that dopey ps has him regularly blocking DE's straight up

In comment 14667826 Diver_Down said:

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Just a clarification, he has fumbled 10 times. He has lost 8 of those fumbles. He recovered one and an OL recovered another. It needs to stop. The bigger concern is his pocket presence and internal clock. He has been sacked 26 times. Yes, we know the OL isn't good. It has been the NY Giants legacy for a decade. But he needs to speed up his reads and get rid of the ball. Being a tackling dummy isn't courageous/heroic.

This is, I believe, correct. He just takes too long. It is why I said he doesn't get the ball to the outlet quick enough. He tries to extend plays and by the time he determines nothing is there he is either late to the outlet or sacked.

In comment 14667780 trueblueinpw said:

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He’s injured with a bad leg (running backs use their legs sometimes don’t they?) and playing behind a line that can’t block with a rookie QB that probably can’t read the defense and a clueless coaching staff that doesn’t know enough to sit him. But sure, he’s soft and tentative. Ridiculous.

No offense to you or your opinion but, I see the same damn thing. He waits to make a move and runs laterally a lot when forward is the best option. Yes, he is a homerun hitter but he takes losses way way too much and tends to not take the gap that would guarantee 3 to 4 yards and try for something else, resulting in losses way more often this year. A lot goes into it but, Barkley is not immune from criticism jsut because he is our "star" player.

...leaves me with the unalterable impression that this franchise is not only a bottom-dweller, but will continue to be a bottom-dweller long term.

Not good when you're forced to focus on next year's spring Draft in late October.

Not good at all.

...who said Jon Halapio would be fine in this newly constructed offensive line.

That list was pretty long.

Ahhh… how the Giants looked legit in the warm glow of mid-July.

Looking at the team and how poorly they're playing, how much of this can be attributed to coaching vs lack of talent?

In other words, do you think we have players playing poorly that may be adequate under another coaching staff?

Would be huge if we can count on these guys as main pieces on the D moving forward. Hopefully L. Williams can join them. I still think Baker is going to be an answer moving forward. Let him take his lumps this year.

I don't know that I'd say Saquon is playing soft. I think the injury might have him off his game. If anything though, he seems to be trying to do too much since he came back.

In comment 14667848 M.S. said:

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...who said Jon Halapio would be fine in this newly constructed offensive line. That list was pretty long. Ahhh… how the Giants looked legit in the warm glow of mid-July.

I think your "list" wasn't that long. It isn't revisionist on my part. The consensus was that so long as Zeitler was healthy (he has not been) and Hernandez continues to progress that Halapio would be fine with superior talent around him. It was accepted that if Halapio was the worst/weakest link on the OL than the OL would be much improved.

It was the fallacy of placing our eggs in the Remmers basket. There were a vocal minority that was absolutely against it. Yet, many were celebrating the signing after the draft as finally addressing RT. Eric was posting pictures of Remmers as a Viking boasting that this is what a RT looks like. Yet, he wasn't even healthy enough to participate in non-contact drills in shorts/t-shirt 2 months from opening day.

We would have been better served in secreting Wheeler away to an Eastern European girls gymnast camp to get "stronger" while stockpiling clean piss for him to use with a Whizzinator. We all know that Wheeler sucked, but it wasn't for lack of effort. He was just weak and slow.

was coming off back surgery for an offensive lineman. So many people wanted to be positive about this offseason that any excuse was used to justify saying pleased about it.

Betting on a tackle with a bad back and being fully aware they had no roster depth at the position. It's stupid.

lost in all the Danielmania is the fact that Barkley is the marked man in this offense. He draws a crowd wherever he goes. Jesus, he's even got a couple of guys waiting for him on swing passes. Barkley is a great back, but he can't run through 3 guys laying in wait for him. This offense, with its emphasis on short passes and its lack of a deep threat outside of a raw rookie, helps DC's to crowd the middle of the field and stay closer to the LOS.

If you were a DC, isn't this exactly how you would play it? Stop the home run hitter and make the TO-prone rookie passer beat you.

The 'consensus' (if there was one) was that Halapio would be better than Pulley (not a high bar) and that with Hernandez and Zeitler around him the interior OL would be a plus.

As for Remmers, few thought he was a long term solution. Most (including the front office) viewed him as a below average RT and a stopgap that would be better than Wheeler.

In comment 14667884 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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was coming off back surgery for an offensive lineman. So many people wanted to be positive about this offseason that any excuse was used to justify saying pleased about it. Betting on a tackle with a bad back and being fully aware they had no roster depth at the position. It's stupid.

Was that directed at me? I didn't mean to gloss over his injury. I've been pointing it out since the idea of signing him was proposed. I also didn't want Williams in FA coming off an ACL. Williams has signed a prove-it deal and has shown to be healthy so I wouldn't be opposed this year. I just don't think we are good enough with depth to take chances on players with prove-it deals.

I think a better strategy outside of the juiced Wheeler plan would have been to draft OL early instead of DG opting to cluster draft an entire defensive secondary and then settle for Big George.

Fixing the OL was one of the priorities of DG. Addressing the OL with late round draft picks or players coming off the ambulatory squad is not going to fix the OL.

In comment 14667848 M.S. said:

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...who said Jon Halapio would be fine in this newly constructed offensive line. That list was pretty long. Ahhh… how the Giants looked legit in the warm glow of mid-July.

So what? I was one of those that expected Halapio to be pretty decent. Are we also supposed to turn in our Giants secret decoder rings because we thought he'd be decent? As fans we hope that the players we have can be league average or better. We all hoped that a healthy Solder, a bigger Halapio, adding Zeitler and Remmers would give the offense a spark, Hernandez would further develop into a top 10 guard.

Are you gloating that Halapio added nothing?

Maybe Greg will stop acting like he's CC Brown 2.0. I think Peppers will take a huge step forward if the Giants put a decent FS next to him. Honestly I think some of his issues this season are due to him trying to overcompensate for Bethea.

Kris Richard is on my wishlist of HC options. I love hearing that he gets the best out of his players. He is exactly what this franchise needs.

If Jason Garrett is fired, which I think he will be, then the Giants could bring Rod Marinelli over as the DC. They would need a top OC because of Daniel Jones but I would look to Jay Gruden asa OC and do whatever it took to bring Bill Callahan over as OL coach. That would be an impressive coaching staff.

Barkley is "Playing Soft" wouldnt that make him a terrible pick? He has all the tools to be the best in the league, but the #2 overall pick as a RB needs to be better that that year 2.

He is the 6th highest paid RB in the league in his 2nd year. I just cant see how this was a good pick considering that the position usually has quality players available in FA that can be had at a similar cost. Quentin Nelson on the other hand is the 23rd highest paid player at his position getting paid less than half of what the top OG is getting and $4 million less than we are paying Zeitler.

The value of a RB at #2 for a bad team just isnt there. I love the kid and he is everything you want to root for in a player, we just over drafted him since we needed so many other players that could offer better value for the spot taken.

Draft Barkley at #2?
I saw what most saw the last few games that Barkley looks tentative and reluctant to pick up the dirty yards. His pass blocking needs work. He needs to be the engine behind this offense. I know the OL is not great but he needs to put his nose in there and stop waiting for the home run. I thought I would never say that Elliott is much better. I question his toughness at this point. If he is still hurt then feature Gallman. He gets the dirty yards.

write up. Thanks.

In comment 14667996 Rudy5757 said:

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Barkley is "Playing Soft" wouldnt that make him a terrible pick? He has all the tools to be the best in the league, but the #2 overall pick as a RB needs to be better that that year 2. He is the 6th highest paid RB in the league in his 2nd year. I just cant see how this was a good pick considering that the position usually has quality players available in FA that can be had at a similar cost. Quentin Nelson on the other hand is the 23rd highest paid player at his position getting paid less than half of what the top OG is getting and $4 million less than we are paying Zeitler. The value of a RB at #2 for a bad team just isnt there. I love the kid and he is everything you want to root for in a player, we just over drafted him since we needed so many other players that could offer better value for the spot taken.

1. There's a salary scale which is distorting your "rankings". If Nelson was taken #2 overall, he'd be earning nearly $8M average which would be the 5th highest for LGs (he's 7th highest paid LG now) or 17th highest paid OG.

2. By including all "guards", you're doubling the number of players and starting positions which is obviously going to skew the ranking.

In comment 14667971 Jay on the Island said:

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Maybe Greg will stop acting like he's CC Brown 2.0. I think Peppers will take a huge step forward if the Giants put a decent FS next to him. Honestly I think some of his issues this season are due to him trying to overcompensate for Bethea.

At worst, Peppers is a poor man's Collins at 1/5th (or less) the cost. With his athleticism, he has the potential to be better in coverage, but we'll see if he ever develops the instincts. If not, his ceiling is probably Collins, which is still very valuable at his current cost.

Speaking of SB, he doesnt look the same but I think a lot of that is due to how bad halapio and the rest of the line has been. I really don't see what in the world the staff sees in that guy.

Calling Barkley "Soft"

..that said over the summer that Halapio's level of performance would have a HUGE impact on the overall offensive production? Assuming he would be the 4th 'dud' this week.

The interior 3 as a unit is one of the biggest disappointments of the season, and the inside run game & cleanliness of the pocket is really below league average.

Interesting list of guys running the four teams Sy cites as being able to get their playmakers into space; Turner, McVay, Peyton, and Kubiak (Stefanski is OC, but is still learning on the job). Room to grow there for Shurmur. Better get going on the self-scouting, Coach.

Thanks, Sy. Best read on the GMen on a week-to-week basis, even if the evaluations aren't putting smiles on anybody's faces!

In comment 14667748 Torrag said:

Quote:

Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse.

Thanks Sy. Great review as usual...

Where is FMiC now?
Sy is making the exact same point I made, on the exact same type of players.
In my thread I when I questioned his mental abilities, I made it clear that it wasn't raw intelligence, it was speed of processing.

FMiC, are you willing to admit yet, that it is possible that I saw a pattern early on, perhaps before others, a pattern that has continued unabated?

In comment 14668069 .McL. said:

Quote:

In comment 14667748 Torrag said: Quote: Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse. Thanks Sy. Great review as usual... Where is FMiC now? Sy is making the exact same point I made, on the exact same type of players. In my thread I when I questioned his mental abilities, I made it clear that it wasn't raw intelligence, it was speed of processing. FMiC, are you willing to admit yet, that it is possible that I saw a pattern early on, perhaps before others, a pattern that has continued unabated?

Why are you provoking an argument? I believe fmic took issue with you claiming Halapio didn't have the smarts to play the position. Also you were claiming you knew without doubt what players assignments were. I believe if you wouldn't state ideas that aren't proven as if they are there wouldn't be much issue.

In comment 14667756 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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when your team's offense is primarily in the shotgun. That's also true of offensive linemen when it comes to physical run-blocking. And yet Shurmur for some inconceivable reason has fallen in love with the shotgun formation ever since Daniel Jones was inserted into the starting lineup. Look at Barkley's highlight film from last season. Look at Jones' success in the preseason. You will see a lot more of the QB under center, downhill running, and play-action passing off of it. As for the refusal to run the ball outside/off tackle or the lack of plays in which Barkley is in space, blame the play caller/designer. As I said weeks ago, this offense should look the way Minnesota's does right now. Dalvin Cook running with a fullback and tight end or multiple tight ends in front of him, then downfield play action passing off of it. Elijhaa Penny is as much of a waste of a roster spot as Tanney if the coach refuses to use him. I'm not completely absolving Barkley of blame (I don't think he's been the same since the injury), but I don't see how any back could be successful lining up in the shotgun this much behind this offensive line. You can envy EE, but he's just a different player than Barkley. EE is a steady pounder, while Saquon is a HR hitter. Barkley has more 40 yard plays already than EE has in his entire career. Since the start of last season, Saquon has more 20+ yard runs than EE despite 113 less carries. Imagine if the play caller/designer actually ran the ball outside/off the edges. I'm still not sure how the Jones' run is a fumble if the play is supposed to be dead as soon as he dives headfirst or slides. Carter and Ximines get blocked WAY too easily on running plays by opposing tight ends.

A downhill running RB, FB and pulling G wears out a D, let alone takes the ball out of the hands of a TO machine QB.

McL trying to rile up FMIC to have the same exact argument.

In comment 14668087 Jay on the Island said:

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McL trying to rile up FMIC to have the same exact argument.

Jay, are you ever going to call him out on anything?

And, Yep...

Let's see if he has any self awareness that he is usually the one to stir things up. And lets see if he has enough character to admit when he's made a mistake.

I'm betting its neither.

He will come on to this thread and curse me, and call me arrogant. He will take what I wrote out of its context and twist it yet again.

But when you look at what I wrote, it was highlighting the exact same issue and the plays I linked were the exact kind of plays that Sy writes about. What I wrote, I put a as a doubt, which is even milder than what Sy has written here. I just didn't take the time to draft it the way Sy did.

When people talk about self awareness if they are aware we all suffer from lack of awareness time and time again throughout our lives. The goal is to lessen it, but I don't think we ever escape it.

In comment 14668100 .McL. said:

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In comment 14668087 Jay on the Island said: Quote: McL trying to rile up FMIC to have the same exact argument. Jay, are you ever going to call him out on anything? And, Yep... Let's see if he has any self awareness that he is usually the one to stir things up. And lets see if he has enough character to admit when he's made a mistake. I'm betting its neither. He will come on to this thread and curse me, and call me arrogant. He will take what I wrote out of its context and twist it yet again. But when you look at what I wrote, it was highlighting the exact same issue and the plays I linked were the exact kind of plays that Sy writes about. What I wrote, I put a as a doubt, which is even milder than what Sy has written here. I just didn't take the time to draft it the way Sy did.

Why would I call him out? Am I the thread police? You're clearly instigating a fight and then trying to play the victim. If you don't like the guy ignore what he says.

There is no reason to get so worked up over someone's opposing viewpoint.

In comment 14668012 giants#1 said:

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In comment 14667971 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Maybe Greg will stop acting like he's CC Brown 2.0. I think Peppers will take a huge step forward if the Giants put a decent FS next to him. Honestly I think some of his issues this season are due to him trying to overcompensate for Bethea. At worst, Peppers is a poor man's Collins at 1/5th (or less) the cost. With his athleticism, he has the potential to be better in coverage, but we'll see if he ever develops the instincts. If not, his ceiling is probably Collins, which is still very valuable at his current cost.

Yes, he had a lot of tackles against the run 7 and 8 yards down the field. Fantastic. Who the heck was he covering? Witten and Barwin combined for 9 catches 100 yards and a td and made monkeys out of us again.

In comment 14668127 HomerJones45 said:

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In comment 14668012 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 14667971 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Maybe Greg will stop acting like he's CC Brown 2.0. I think Peppers will take a huge step forward if the Giants put a decent FS next to him. Honestly I think some of his issues this season are due to him trying to overcompensate for Bethea. At worst, Peppers is a poor man's Collins at 1/5th (or less) the cost. With his athleticism, he has the potential to be better in coverage, but we'll see if he ever develops the instincts. If not, his ceiling is probably Collins, which is still very valuable at his current cost. Yes, he had a lot of tackles against the run 7 and 8 yards down the field. Fantastic. Who the heck was he covering? Witten and Barwin combined for 9 catches 100 yards and a td and made monkeys out of us again.

Are you blaming Peppers for Jarwin's long td run? That was Ogletree's man. Maybe go back and watch to see who was responsible for Witten and Jarwin before you just assume it was Peppers. Bethea has been abysmal all season long.

In comment 14667899 Diver_Down said:

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In comment 14667884 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: was coming off back surgery for an offensive lineman. So many people wanted to be positive about this offseason that any excuse was used to justify saying pleased about it. Betting on a tackle with a bad back and being fully aware they had no roster depth at the position. It's stupid. Was that directed at me? I didn't mean to gloss over his injury. I've been pointing it out since the idea of signing him was proposed. I also didn't want Williams in FA coming off an ACL. Williams has signed a prove-it deal and has shown to be healthy so I wouldn't be opposed this year. I just don't think we are good enough with depth to take chances on players with prove-it deals. I think a better strategy outside of the juiced Wheeler plan would have been to draft OL early instead of DG opting to cluster draft an entire defensive secondary and then settle for Big George. Fixing the OL was one of the priorities of DG. Addressing the OL with late round draft picks or players coming off the ambulatory squad is not going to fix the OL.

Wasnt directed at anyone. I didnt have a problem with signing . There was just a lot depending on a surgically repaired back.

In comment 14668115 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14668100 .McL. said: Quote: In comment 14668087 Jay on the Island said: Quote: McL trying to rile up FMIC to have the same exact argument. Jay, are you ever going to call him out on anything? And, Yep... Let's see if he has any self awareness that he is usually the one to stir things up. And lets see if he has enough character to admit when he's made a mistake. I'm betting its neither. He will come on to this thread and curse me, and call me arrogant. He will take what I wrote out of its context and twist it yet again. But when you look at what I wrote, it was highlighting the exact same issue and the plays I linked were the exact kind of plays that Sy writes about. What I wrote, I put a as a doubt, which is even milder than what Sy has written here. I just didn't take the time to draft it the way Sy did. Why would I call him out? Am I the thread police? You're clearly instigating a fight and then trying to play the victim. If you don't like the guy ignore what he says. There is no reason to get so worked up over someone's opposing viewpoint.

Don't you see the hypocrasy in what you are saying.

You are calling me out, playing "Thread Polics". But yet when he goes off the farm, cursing, calling names, twisting things and generally being foul, you are OK with that.

In comment 14668114 crick n NC said:

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When people talk about self awareness if they are aware we all suffer from lack of awareness time and time again throughout our lives. The goal is to lessen it, but I don't think we ever escape it.

crick, I know exactly what I am doing.

Whether you like itor not.

Yes, I don't like the guy, but it's not just how he treats me, its how he behaves in general.

I don't really care if you like what I am doing or not. I don't care what you in particular think of me.

My goal when I make the comment I made above, is to expose him so that that other posters are not intimidated by his BS. To expose him for what he is.

If FMiCjr signed up for the board today and behaved the way he does, that poster would get run off in a NY minute. Why does anybody on here treat FMiC any different. He screams, he shouts, he is foul, and he tries to intimidate people. All the while accusing other's of arrogance.

The day his voice is muted because either he leaves, or he has lost respect from every other poster on the board, it will be a very good day for this board.

So, I go back to 1 very specific incident where he was foul... I will hammer it, and let him continue to embarrass himself. Regardless if other posters think I am being petty. I have my reasons.

what would you do to fix this offensive line? Do you think that much of Solder's issues are technique related? If they hire a competent OL coach and perhaps move him to RT do you think he could rebound or has he just begun breaking down?

In comment 14668251 Jay on the Island said:

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what would you do to fix this offensive line? Do you think that much of Solder's issues are technique related? If they hire a competent OL coach and perhaps move him to RT do you think he could rebound or has he just begun breaking down?

Problem with Solder is that he is not a mauler type. He has always relied on his ability to adjust and recover quickly to what his opponent does. Whether its through athletic ability, quick reactions, or good anticipation. I don't think that plays as well on the right side where you tend to have bigger stronger defenders. I fear he would just get pushed back all the time.

In comment 14668268 .McL. said:

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In comment 14668251 Jay on the Island said: Quote: what would you do to fix this offensive line? Do you think that much of Solder's issues are technique related? If they hire a competent OL coach and perhaps move him to RT do you think he could rebound or has he just begun breaking down? Problem with Solder is that he is not a mauler type. He has always relied on his ability to adjust and recover quickly to what his opponent does. Whether its through athletic ability, quick reactions, or good anticipation. I don't think that plays as well on the right side where you tend to have bigger stronger defenders. I fear he would just get pushed back all the time.

If he could just be a league average RT for one season it would allow the Giants to wait another year to find the long term answer. That or they could draft a day 3 OT and hope he develops behind Solder and takes over in 2021.

I just hope they come away with a LT in round 1 or 2 and also address C. If they fix those two spots then they would be fine with Solder at RT especially if they land a potential stud in Thomas.

No more bullshit, we hopefully have our franchise QB now it's time to protect the kid.

In comment 14668291 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14668268 .McL. said: Quote: In comment 14668251 Jay on the Island said: Quote: what would you do to fix this offensive line? Do you think that much of Solder's issues are technique related? If they hire a competent OL coach and perhaps move him to RT do you think he could rebound or has he just begun breaking down? Problem with Solder is that he is not a mauler type. He has always relied on his ability to adjust and recover quickly to what his opponent does. Whether its through athletic ability, quick reactions, or good anticipation. I don't think that plays as well on the right side where you tend to have bigger stronger defenders. I fear he would just get pushed back all the time. If he could just be a league average RT for one season it would allow the Giants to wait another year to find the long term answer. That or they could draft a day 3 OT and hope he develops behind Solder and takes over in 2021. I just hope they come away with a LT in round 1 or 2 and also address C. If they fix those two spots then they would be fine with Solder at RT especially if they land a potential stud in Thomas. No more bullshit, we hopefully have our franchise QB now it's time to protect the kid.

Well, I agree we need to find at least 2 OL next year, preferable an LT as one of them.

I have my doubts about Solder at RT, but it can't be any worse than Remmers with a bad back.

You realize he re-signed Spencer Pulley who was part of an improved unit last season. He's on a longer term deal and making more money than halapio. As he should be. He also should have been playing this entire season.

I'd suggest you brush up on your roster, acquisitions and cap before debating. It will save you some embarrassing moments...like now.

In comment 14668251 Jay on the Island said:

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what would you do to fix this offensive line? Do you think that much of Solder's issues are technique related? If they hire a competent OL coach and perhaps move him to RT do you think he could rebound or has he just begun breaking down?

I think Solder is done.

It is hard to buy a left tackle, teams rarely let the good ones go. I think they should toss a lot of money at a RT in FA, there will be a couple good ones, and go hard after the top LT in the draft even if it warrants a trade up.

.

In comment 14668340 Torrag said:

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You realize he re-signed Spencer Pulley who was part of an improved unit last season. He's on a longer term deal and making more money than halapio. As he should be. He also should have been playing this entire season. I'd suggest you brush up on your roster, acquisitions and cap before debating. It will save you some embarrassing moments...like now.

That's fucking hysterical - that's your defense, that he paid good money to a stiff like Pulley?

Some of you deserve this shit football, that's for damn sure. I can imagine back in the 70's you'd be running out behind that plane trying to pull the banner down yelling 'Just give Welly another 5 years, he's almost there!'.

My original post criticized the coaches for playing halapio.

You argued isn't DG culpable for the roster.

I then pointed out DG supplied him with another better option. Which they chose not to use.

How that doesn't make sense to you baffles me.

The O-line was better last season when they played Pulley. That is the point.

I can't make you smarter or improve your ability to make a coherent argument so I'm moving on from this one.

In comment 14668518 Torrag said:

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My original post criticized the coaches for playing halapio. You argued isn't DG culpable for the roster. I then pointed out DG supplied him with another better option. Which they chose not to use. How that doesn't make sense to you baffles me. The O-line was better last season when they played Pulley. That is the point. I can't make you smarter or improve your ability to make a coherent argument so I'm moving on from this one.

You'd better move quickly, before more people stop by to laugh at you.

You're asserting that Pulley is a better player because the line played better last year? What does that say for Gettleman's other acquisitions in Zeitler and Remmers?

Pulley is trash - he maybe marginally better or worse than Halapio, but both of them are barely replacement level players, let alone quality starters.

In comment 14668012 giants#1 said:

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In comment 14667971 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Maybe Greg will stop acting like he's CC Brown 2.0. I think Peppers will take a huge step forward if the Giants put a decent FS next to him. Honestly I think some of his issues this season are due to him trying to overcompensate for Bethea. At worst, Peppers is a poor man's Collins at 1/5th (or less) the cost. With his athleticism, he has the potential to be better in coverage, but we'll see if he ever develops the instincts. If not, his ceiling is probably Collins, which is still very valuable at his current cost.

What Collins are we talking about?

Peppers isn't perfect or a Pro Bowler but he has made more plays in 8 games than Collins did the past two seasons in NY. Collins tackling Was nice but he didn't force turnovers.

It wasn’t about inability, it was about willingness to tackle on that TD play. He had no interest in trying. And it wasn’t the only time he made that kind of decision during the game, or at other times this season. He’s checked out effort wise.

Engram should have been traded even a 2nd round pick would
do . Never wanted a tweener . Cowboys built a powerful
O-line and promptly put the best back in football behind
it . They added a big TE in Jarwin who already owns us .
Agree Barkley would have have 200 yards behind that line ..
Were hopeful Jones is the goods but he is a turnover
machine right now . Patty is a disaster he has no idea
how to score in the redzone . His use of Barkley is criminal
The play calls make no sense none .
The defense takes half the game by the time they figure
things out then the opposition counters them I don't
see another win on the schedule do you ?

In comment 14668613 Crispino said:

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It wasn’t about inability, it was about willingness to tackle on that TD play. He had no interest in trying. And it wasn’t the only time he made that kind of decision during the game, or at other times this season. He’s checked out effort wise.

Likely the beginning of where Shroomur loses the team. I would bet money on it.

Thanks for the efforts. Must be brutal watching this team a 2nd and 3rd time.

I think the biggest thing I take is that the Giants will be competitive again when they become tough on the lines. This will make things easier for Jones, Barkley and the WR's. It is really that simple. Win the lines and this team wins again.

Coaching....he just does not have it. I think he is flustered and when I watch the games it is like he is picking something from his playsheet that works. I have no idea why he is "Air Shurmur" . Protect your QB

FMIC has been a ass for a long time....maybe he got cut too many times in little league.

In comment 14668075 crick n NC said:

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In comment 14668069 .McL. said: Quote: In comment 14667748 Torrag said: Quote: Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse. Thanks Sy. Great review as usual... Where is FMiC now? Sy is making the exact same point I made, on the exact same type of players. In my thread I when I questioned his mental abilities, I made it clear that it wasn't raw intelligence, it was speed of processing. FMiC, are you willing to admit yet, that it is possible that I saw a pattern early on, perhaps before others, a pattern that has continued unabated? Why are you provoking an argument? I believe fmic took issue with you claiming Halapio didn't have the smarts to play the position. Also you were claiming you knew without doubt what players assignments were. I believe if you wouldn't state ideas that aren't proven as if they are there wouldn't be much issue.

How far up FMiC’s ass do you think you are at this point? I would say its hard to tell where you start and he leaves off...

In comment 14668228 .McL. said:

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In comment 14668114 crick n NC said: Quote: When people talk about self awareness if they are aware we all suffer from lack of awareness time and time again throughout our lives. The goal is to lessen it, but I don't think we ever escape it. crick, I know exactly what I am doing. Whether you like itor not. Yes, I don't like the guy, but it's not just how he treats me, its how he behaves in general. I don't really care if you like what I am doing or not. I don't care what you in particular think of me. My goal when I make the comment I made above, is to expose him so that that other posters are not intimidated by his BS. To expose him for what he is. If FMiCjr signed up for the board today and behaved the way he does, that poster would get run off in a NY minute. Why does anybody on here treat FMiC any different. He screams, he shouts, he is foul, and he tries to intimidate people. All the while accusing other's of arrogance. The day his voice is muted because either he leaves, or he has lost respect from every other poster on the board, it will be a very good day for this board. So, I go back to 1 very specific incident where he was foul... I will hammer it, and let him continue to embarrass himself. Regardless if other posters think I am being petty. I have my reasons.

This is now the 4th time you've called me out on posts. What the fuck is your problem? For somebody who doesn't seemingly care what I think - you keep calling me out proactively.

I will repeat what I said initially. You said that Halapio lacked the "mental acuity" to play the C position. And you've been patting yourself on the back continually everytime someone posts that Halapio is playing poorly. Are you that much of an smugly, arrogant guy that you look at this as validation of a terrible take?

And you don't even know what the fuck you are arguing about. You will not find a post from me talking about Halapio being a great player. You will not find a post saying Halapio should be gifted the position. I entered that discussion for the sole purpose of pointing out your arrogance in questioning a professional football player's mental fitness.

But this is nothing new for you. You continually ascribe arguments to me I don't make. Just like the analytics discussion. I entered that fray to dismiss the notion that Gettleman didn't use analytics at Carolina (not a claim you made) - and to again question the smug arrogance of basing the qualifications of a person to run a department based on his LinkedIn profile - something you did post about.

The pattern with you is a continued smug arrogance is telling us what professional football people are and aren't doing.

You talk about screaming, shouting and being foul as if you are above the fray - yet this is another instance of you calling me out when you still can't get it fucking straight why I went after your Halapio comments in the first place. The arbiter of mental acuity?

Smug arrogance is the shoe that fits - and I'll point that out everytime your insecure ass feels the need to call me out unprovoked.

In comment 14668743 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 14668075 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14668069 .McL. said: Quote: In comment 14667748 Torrag said: Quote: Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse. Thanks Sy. Great review as usual... Where is FMiC now? Sy is making the exact same point I made, on the exact same type of players. In my thread I when I questioned his mental abilities, I made it clear that it wasn't raw intelligence, it was speed of processing. FMiC, are you willing to admit yet, that it is possible that I saw a pattern early on, perhaps before others, a pattern that has continued unabated? Why are you provoking an argument? I believe fmic took issue with you claiming Halapio didn't have the smarts to play the position. Also you were claiming you knew without doubt what players assignments were. I believe if you wouldn't state ideas that aren't proven as if they are there wouldn't be much issue. How far up FMiC’s ass do you think you are at this point? I would say its hard to tell where you start and he leaves off...

"Take it down a notch"

In comment 14668131 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14668127 HomerJones45 said: Quote: In comment 14668012 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 14667971 Jay on the Island said: Quote: Maybe Greg will stop acting like he's CC Brown 2.0. I think Peppers will take a huge step forward if the Giants put a decent FS next to him. Honestly I think some of his issues this season are due to him trying to overcompensate for Bethea. At worst, Peppers is a poor man's Collins at 1/5th (or less) the cost. With his athleticism, he has the potential to be better in coverage, but we'll see if he ever develops the instincts. If not, his ceiling is probably Collins, which is still very valuable at his current cost. Yes, he had a lot of tackles against the run 7 and 8 yards down the field. Fantastic. Who the heck was he covering? Witten and Barwin combined for 9 catches 100 yards and a td and made monkeys out of us again. Are you blaming Peppers for Jarwin's long td run? That was Ogletree's man. Maybe go back and watch to see who was responsible for Witten and Jarwin before you just assume it was Peppers. Bethea has been abysmal all season long.

Oh I did. Let me tell you what Peppers was doing on that play: sitting with his thumb in his ass the entire time watching the play unfold in front of him. Uninformed individuals, say, like yourself, will blame Ogletree who was apparently supposed to let Prescott run for 20 yards or Bethea, who had a man, instead of the one guy on the defense who was unoccupied the entire time and sat there. He should have bought a ticket. Sometimes you have to play football. Slow to recognize; slow to react.

McL and his posting buddy can deal with their own issues without you.

In comment 14668100 .McL. said:

Quote:

He will come on to this thread and curse me, and call me arrogant. He will take what I wrote out of its context and twist it yet again.

FMiC...

You certainly don't disappoint do you!

Again, I will repost a summary of the thread...

The post was made after HJ pointed out his age and that he was cut numerous times...

I NEVER STATED that he didn't have the "mental acuity", I said that

Quote:

I have my doubts that he has the mental faculty to play the position. ... its being able to process quickly when the bullets are flying.

But, the plays I linked were all slow developing stunts that that came right though his area, both guards were engaged... He didn't pay attention to them whatsoever, all displayed mental mistakes. Exactly the same as what Sy is pointing out.

EXACTLY

So you will accept this criticism when Sy says it, but relentlessly attack me when I said it. Call me foul names, call me arrogant, and not even look at the evidence. Of course the irony of YOU of all people calling anybody arrogant is completely lost on you. But you willfully keep yourself ignorant, and shout about how that is the right thing. And you pass judgement on me and others... And you call us arrogant. Ponderous.

There was nothing arrogant about what I said that was incorrect, or arrogant. It was a fair assessment that has become the common wisdom now.

The only difference is that I was the first to post about the specific issue that Sy is pointing out.

Frankly, you owe an apology, I know you will never give it. You lack even 1/10 of the character necessary to be honorable and respectable enough to admit your mistakes.

So I will keep tweaking you, and I will continue to get you riled up and focusing your foulness on me. I can take it. And every time you do, you prove my assessment of you!

By the way, I have the character, I do admit my mistakes, and have done so publicly on this board.

And yes we debated the Giants analytics department. Even then you said I made persuaive arguments. Now somehow you are trying to twist it into something else...

Frankly, you are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

In comment 14668799 crick n NC said:

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In comment 14668743 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 14668075 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14668069 .McL. said: Quote: In comment 14667748 Torrag said: Quote: Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse. Thanks Sy. Great review as usual... Where is FMiC now? Sy is making the exact same point I made, on the exact same type of players. In my thread I when I questioned his mental abilities, I made it clear that it wasn't raw intelligence, it was speed of processing. FMiC, are you willing to admit yet, that it is possible that I saw a pattern early on, perhaps before others, a pattern that has continued unabated? Why are you provoking an argument? I believe fmic took issue with you claiming Halapio didn't have the smarts to play the position. Also you were claiming you knew without doubt what players assignments were. I believe if you wouldn't state ideas that aren't proven as if they are there wouldn't be much issue. How far up FMiC’s ass do you think you are at this point? I would say its hard to tell where you start and he leaves off... "Take it down a notch"

And crick...

Nowhere did I say that I knew everybody's assignments. Absulutely nowhere did I say anything near that.

That makes you even worse than FMiC. You are the sycophant of a pathetic excuse for a human being. What does that make you?

If we are going to keep scorecards of past opinions which turned out to be right or wrong; we are all going to be wrong more than right and or we each going to have to defend real howlers 12-24 months later.

At any one time there are 1696 players on 32 teams playing 512 regular season games and about 76,800 plays in the regular season.

Every single poster on this board has a record 0 wins as a GM or as a HC or DC or OC in the 5,120 regular season games played over the last ten years.

Since they as a collective win about .500 percent of the time and meanwhile we have never won anything, we are likely right less than 50% of the time.

Nevertheless, we are all certain 100% of the time.

Its a humiliating sport to play, manage, assess, analyze or critique.

But fun to watch in some years

In comment 14668859 Bill2 said:

Quote:

If we are going to keep scorecards of past opinions which turned out to be right or wrong; we are all going to be wrong more than right and or we each going to have to defend real howlers 12-24 months later. At any one time there are 1696 players on 32 teams playing 512 regular season games and about 76,800 plays in the regular season. Every single poster on this board has a record 0 wins as a GM or as a HC or DC or OC in the 5,120 regular season games played over the last ten years. Since they as a collective win about .500 percent of the time and meanwhile we have never won anything, we are likely right less than 50% of the time. Nevertheless, we are all certain 100% of the time. Its a humiliating sport to play, manage, assess, analyze or critique. But fun to watch in some years

Bill,

I wholeheartedly agree with you. And you know, I don't have an issue with somebody who disagrees with me, and wants to honestly debate the issue. You and I have done that often.

Also, I am not keeping score here. This is entirely about FMiC's behavior.

Let me make this clear, his general mode of behavior is to use foul language, shout at people, call them names, and general intimidation. He stirs issues things up, he gleefully foments and supports the culture of piling up on posters. He actively tries to cause meltdown threads. He encourages others to join him. He feeds off the acrimony that exists on this site. He tries to prevent honest debate.

Every single poster on this forum should find his behavior abhorrent. He should be called out by as many people as possible, everytime he does it. He should be forced to back down every single time. But, unfortunately, he has many people intimidated, these people get silenced because they are not willing to stand up to him.

When posters realize just how pathetic he really is, he will lose that power of intimidation. That is my goal. Recently, I am seeing more posters willing to call him out and stand up to him. I'm not going to claim responsibility for that, but I see it as a good thing, and I am going to keep playing a part in that.

Lets take a small sample of his behavior from the thread in question...

To be continued.

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FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 8:13 am : link What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. it really makes people looking at "film" foolish when they think they can determine what's going on. That's certainly being closer to a chucklehead than an expert

By the way FMiC, since you are such a sycophant of anything that the teams FO & Coaching Staff do, I took that as you certification of the quality of Halapio's play.
Certainly now, it does seem foolish... Foolish that Giants thought anything positive about Halapio when there was clearly nothing there, and foolish to say that somebody couldn't see an issue by looking at the videos, since that is what Sy just did. Or are you saying the same thing about SY as you did on this thread about me?

Here is his willfill ignorance...

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As usual.. FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 4:47 pm : link you miss the fucking point completely: What does looking at the "supporting evidence" accomplish if neither you nor I know what to make of it? What rational debate do you expect to take place when you've taken it upon yourself to be the arbiter of who is an NFL-caliber player and who has the mental acuity to succeed? The main problem is you don't see the folly of making these sweeping judgements. That's what I'm pointing out. It has nothing to do with the "film". It has to do with smug arrogance.

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LOL.. FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 8:12 pm : link It's like you are just a dense fucker for no reason: Quote: Do you know how I know you guys didn't even spend 1 minute to look .McL. : 7:37 pm : link : reply at the plays? Again - what does looking at the plays matter if you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. It really isn't more pointed or direct than that. Stating it plainly - you don't know what the fuck you are looking at. You cannot possibly determine what is going on without knowing the playcall, the scheme or the assignments. 5 paragraphs of complete bullshit doesn't overcome that basic point.

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I'm not.. FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 9:19 pm : link the one claiming to have some special insight on the video. Again - two fools looking at something they don't know shit about proves what exactly?? Too arrogant to look? I'm openly admitting that I cannot assess what is going on without knowing the scheme, the assignments or the playcall. You? Not only can you make an assessment, but you can say who is and who isn't a NFL caliber player and who has the mental acuity to play the position. Are you sure you even know what the fuck arrogant means?? At this point, you are carrying on like a smug clueless assbag.

By the point we get here, other posters start calling him out on his behavior...
Does that slow him down in the slightest...
He is so self unaware, of course nope, not in the slightest.
Oh and I never said I was "cocksure", I said I doubted, typical FMiC twisting

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And let's bottom line.. FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 9:21 pm : link this discussion. Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called. That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure. RE: And let's bottom line.. WillVAB : 6/7/2019 9:56 pm : link In comment 14466442 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: this discussion. Do you think you are qualified to determine what a OL player is doing right or wrong without knowing the assignments, the blocking schemes, the playcall and if an audible is called. That might determine the true assessment of being cocksure. What fucking value are you adding to the discussion? Let’s say McL isn’t in the fucking film room dissecting the plays with Pat Shurmur. Do you know he’s wrong? Are you saying Halapio is actually good? Do you even have a position? Or did you just blast the thread bc OP isn’t the fucking offensive coordinator of the Giants? Value?? FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 10:25 pm : link Is there a value to this discussion?? You literally have an OP who claims to watch "film" and determine that the C is not NFL caliber nor has the mental acuity to play the position. When a guy makes a fucking assessment like that without knowing the assignments, the scheme or the playcall, he most likely is wrong, but still feels the need to regale the board with his faux expertise. I don't look at it as a matter of value - I look at it as pointing out the absurdity/smug arrogance of poster who thinks he can actually break down film and determine what the fuck is going on. On the flip side, what fucking value is the OP bringing? That he can watch Youtube?

All this, and at the end of the day, I saw the same thing Sy saw. I even went further and linked 4 or 5 examples. But, according to FMiC, I brought no bleeping value.
But as you can see, not only is he foul, he wants to shut down the debate.

This is all just a typical day for FMiC.

So there is is for all to see.
So I will leave to the board to judge who was foul and arrogant, and who actually added value and had some foresight.

If you want a board with little or no honest debate, and nobody even trying to bring to the fore something they noticed, and a board that fights with each other all the time. By all means support and follow FMiC.

If that's not what you want. Call him out, call him out in numbers until he backs down. Its the best way to deal with bullies.

In comment 14668838 .McL. said:

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In comment 14668799 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14668743 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 14668075 crick n NC said: Quote: In comment 14668069 .McL. said: Quote: In comment 14667748 Torrag said: Quote: Sy: -Center Jon Halapio didn’t get any push against a defensive line that is known for being undersized. I’m not sure why he continues to get the nod...Spencer Pulley. He just looks slow. DAL sent a couple long-developing stunts and blitzes right up the middle and he barely even acknowledged them. His reaction time isn’t good enough. He's the worst center in the NFL. Between Hunter and Shurmur I don't know who shoulders more blame for the mistake of first choosing this guy and now stubbornly keeps rolling him out there. Pulley isn't some stud but he's a functional player and was part of an improved unit last season. For fucksake try him in there. He literally can't be worse. Thanks Sy. Great review as usual... Where is FMiC now? Sy is making the exact same point I made, on the exact same type of players. In my thread I when I questioned his mental abilities, I made it clear that it wasn't raw intelligence, it was speed of processing. FMiC, are you willing to admit yet, that it is possible that I saw a pattern early on, perhaps before others, a pattern that has continued unabated? Why are you provoking an argument? I believe fmic took issue with you claiming Halapio didn't have the smarts to play the position. Also you were claiming you knew without doubt what players assignments were. I believe if you wouldn't state ideas that aren't proven as if they are there wouldn't be much issue. How far up FMiC’s ass do you think you are at this point? I would say its hard to tell where you start and he leaves off... "Take it down a notch" And crick... Nowhere did I say that I knew everybody's assignments. Absulutely nowhere did I say anything near that. That makes you even worse than FMiC. You are the sycophant of a pathetic excuse for a human being. What does that make you?

Me? I'm a flawed human being. You took my post quite personal, considering what I said was rather tame.

great to see how you spend the early morning hours, conversing with yourself on multiple posts.

Including posts where this is used to say that I think Halapio is a good player?

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FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 8:13 am : link What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it.

I'm having flashbacks to a guy speaking poor Dutch because "Ok is just OK".....

Are you actually advocating that people challenge my opinions in "numbers"? The goal being to silence me? Isn't that the same thing you're up my ass about here and the several other threads you keep calling me out on without provocation?

The bottom line is you don't like me challenging you takes. And apparently using profanity assaults your delicate sensibilities. So in response to being challenged, what do you do? Cal me out, ask others to go after me and keep posting about me when I'm not even on a thread.

The irony of your "bully" comment is fucking rich.

You clearly have a problem with me. Because I had the audacity to challenge your take? You are missing the point that this thread reflects more on you than me there, Ace.

I still come here a lot, not as much as I used to, but most days. There is information and opinion on NYG here that you cannot find other places.

Fights between posters here can be entertaining. Some in the past were classic. This isn't one of those. I come here less because smart, funny posters like FMIC don't post as much as they once did. Strident, weird posters like McL seem to set more of the tone around here now.

At the end of the day, this website is supposed to be enjoyable. Fat Man consistently brings something to his posts that I find readable. Not so much McL. I don't care to scroll through pages of old threads purporting to show...something. Whatever the point was, it is boring. And it seems way too personal. I don't have any interest in your lofty mission to fight FMIC until he...I dunno, changes his tone? Admits your brilliance? Whatever, it isn't that lofty a goal, you are only heroic in your own mind and none of this is a good read.

In comment 14668804 HomerJones45 said:

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Oh I did. Let me tell you what Peppers was doing on that play: sitting with his thumb in his ass the entire time watching the play unfold in front of him. Uninformed individuals, say, like yourself, will blame Ogletree who was apparently supposed to let Prescott run for 20 yards or Bethea, who had a man, instead of the one guy on the defense who was unoccupied the entire time and sat there. He should have bought a ticket. Sometimes you have to play football. Slow to recognize; slow to react.

I'm uninformed? Here is the video which proves that Peppers was on the opposite side of the field. Bethea just gingerly jogs towards Jarwin as he runs in for the score. Ogletree who abandoned his man to pick up Prescott who was being chased by Golden. He should have remained with Jarwin until Prescott passed the line of scrimmage.
Link - ( New Window )

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In comment 14669177 Face Pepler said:

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I still come here a lot, not as much as I used to, but most days. There is information and opinion on NYG here that you cannot find other places. Fights between posters here can be entertaining. Some in the past were classic. This isn't one of those. I come here less because smart, funny posters like FMIC don't post as much as they once did. Strident, weird posters like McL seem to set more of the tone around here now. At the end of the day, this website is supposed to be enjoyable. Fat Man consistently brings something to his posts that I find readable. Not so much McL. I don't care to scroll through pages of old threads purporting to show...something. Whatever the point was, it is boring. And it seems way too personal. I don't have any interest in your lofty mission to fight FMIC until he...I dunno, changes his tone? Admits your brilliance? Whatever, it isn't that lofty a goal, you are only heroic in your own mind and none of this is a good read.

I agree with most of this. The “call out” stuff is just dumb, and McL might be actually doing what he seems to be standing against. That being said, in my time reading here plenty of posters can be too abrasive and be much more annoying than whatever or whoever has annoyed them. FMiC is very funny and probably a fun dude, but other times he does come across poor and extremely “smug” He is pretty knowledgeable though and has good insights. I don’t know if bullying is the right choice of words, but I think plenty of time he feels the need to insult posters when it isn’t really necessary. Sometimes maybe a joke or even two is funny but I think it can come across pretty arrogant and lame at times. That’s also the just the way people feel the need to be on the internet though. There are plenty of others that also seem to feel the need to insult some posters if whatever they write isn’t up to whatever the genius level requirements of posting on a NY Giants message board. Not bothering to say anything is better than trashing someone, but some people have a persona online that probably isn’t anything like how they truly are in life. I don’t pay enough attention to everything FMiC posts to say whether or not he is like that constantly and I am really not trying to bash him. I only mean in the general sense a lot of people on here have gotten used to trying to be the first person to jump on someone first chance they get.

On the flip side, sports is a topic that always causes arguments or disagreements. When the Giants are this bad for this long us fans can get frustrated and annoyed quickly.

As for FMiC for the most part I think he is an intelligent guy who posts a lot of good stuff. Could he lay off some of the shit he gives people? Definitely. Small amounts is amusing, too much just stops being cool. He does post plenty of good stuff though and I don’t think he is unaware of how he acts or posts. I don’t see it as bullying myself. However, you never know when something you say will touch a nerve on someone else. Sometimes it’s all in good fun, sometimes people are too thin skinned, and plenty of times posters are just over the top and can’t seem to control themselves.

I do spend a lot less time reading here than I used to because of the way a lot of people attack others. It just becomes boring, lame and actually pretty sad that some adults feel the need to be or act that way so often. In my experience though, I don’t think FMiC is one of those people. I agree with McL that I’d like to see a lot of posters stop trying so hard to be funny at the expense of others, I just don’t really get that vibe from FMiC.

In comment 14668954 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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great to see how you spend the early morning hours, conversing with yourself on multiple posts. Including posts where this is used to say that I think Halapio is a good player? Quote: FatMan in Charlotte : 6/7/2019 8:13 am : link What we know is that the Giants feel their current C's are adequate, and there's little motivation to feel that way just for the fuck of it. I'm having flashbacks to a guy speaking poor Dutch because "Ok is just OK"..... Are you actually advocating that people challenge my opinions in "numbers"? The goal being to silence me? Isn't that the same thing you're up my ass about here and the several other threads you keep calling me out on without provocation? The bottom line is you don't like me challenging you takes. And apparently using profanity assaults your delicate sensibilities. So in response to being challenged, what do you do? Cal me out, ask others to go after me and keep posting about me when I'm not even on a thread. The irony of your "bully" comment is fucking rich. You clearly have a problem with me. Because I had the audacity to challenge your take? You are missing the point that this thread reflects more on you than me there, Ace.

No, I am advocating that when you start attacking poster with your foul behavior, without addressing the debate, then folks should tell you to back off. Not to attack or demean you. I never condone that. But the only way you will get the message that your behavior is not welcomed, is if you hear it from multiple people.

In the example I posted above, you didn't address the substance of the debate at all. You refused to look at the evidence, you twisted and took what was written out of context, and most importantly you chose to attack the poster not the post..

If you want to engage in the debate, then do so, you don't think the post has merit, then by all means say so, and back it up.

There is a big difference between attacking and demeaning people/posters, versus taking an opposing position on a subject.

The fact that you cannot see that difference speaks volumes about who you are.

The fact remains, that in this particular case, you pulled your schtick, and in the end, the subject in question (my observation about Halapio) was fair, accurate, and supported with evidence. And now you continue to defend it, and cannot bring yourself to admit you were wrong, speaks volumes about you... Ace!

How many people have you chased off with your personal attacks, how many times have you been wrong?

And unlike a couple of your sycophants, I don't think your schtick is funny in way shape or form. And it's not just what you said to me. I'm not claiming any special status with you, you do it to lots of other posters, and its just as cringe worthy then as well.

I am not saying, lets take the fun out of the debates. People have heated debates all the time without stooping to your level.

Just read the BS on that one thread that you wrote. And all of it, every single word was designed to intimidate and demean, as well as shut down the debate, not foster it.

Bottom line is, you don't like me and posters like me. We present a view that challenges yours. In my case, you have tried, but have never been able to make me cower away. You don't look to have an honest but heated debate with me, you want to shut me, and others like me, down.

People say they come here for lively conversation expressing different points of view. That isn't what you do, you look to shut down and chase off any view that opposes yours, which is mostly just carrying the team's water, not a very thought provoking position.

I almost this meltdown...

Than the 2019 Giants.