Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

The Giants first inner-city rivalry.

truebluelarry : 11/7/2019 8:27 am
I am as disappointed as anyone that this week's game against the Jets means absolutely nothing for either team other than who will get the higher draft pick in April. I desperately want to be fired up for this one, but I feel nothing but apathy and indifference. What a shame as they won't play one another for four more years, a wasted date on the calendar...

Back in 1927 nothing could have been further than the truth! The Giants rivalry with Red Grange and C.C. Pyle's New York Yankees was white hot with hatred on both sides - the most common analogy I can come up with that relates is the Islanders-Rangers rivalry in the early 1980s. But this Giants-Yankees rivalry even surpassed the war on ice because winning and losing meant the survival of the franchises struggling for acceptance in the city.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows the background of Grange famously signing with the Bears in 1925 and coming to the Polo Grounds in December drawing a record crowd of 73,000 which saved the Giants franchise and put pro football in the greater public's awareness for the first time.

In 1926 Grange and Pyle formed the first AFL which was a debacle that nearly nearly bankrupt the Giants as there was a ludicrous four pro teams playing in the city limits
and a fifth in Newark.

Part of the resolution following the AFLs collapse was the admission of the Yankees into the NFL with Tim Mara owning the franchise's charter that he acquired with the dissolution of the NFLs Brooklyn Lions. Mara was basically leasing the Yankee's tour of the circuit, with most of their games on the road and never conflicting with any Giants home dates.

The first Giants-Yankees game had been scheduled for October but was postponed by in-climate weather to the tail end of both team's schedules - setting up back-to-back meetings.

The Giants dominated the league, rolling to 9-1-1 record after a climactic win over the Bears at the Polo Grounds.
The Yankees were a solid, competitive team who despite a recent three-game skid that removed them from title contention, were still 7-6 and actually picked to upset the Giants by some of the so-called "experts". That's the kind of star power Grange brought.

The most fascinating back-story here is that the Bears and Packers - both of whom could benefit from two Giants losses and vault over them to the top of the league standings - conspired to assist the Yankees. The Packers "lent" three of their best players to the Yankees (yes, ringers were permitted!) while the Bears, who stayed in town with a game at Frankford up next, spent the week scrimmaging with the Yankees at Yankee Stadium, no doubt offering scouting and strategy advice!

Long story short, the Giants won both games by a combined 27-0 count and won their first NFL title. The 1928 season was the Yankees final in the league. Grange injured his knee (ironically against the Bears) and eventually went back to Chicago for the remainder of his career. Tim Mara retained the franchise charter and activated it in 1929 to admit the Staten Island Stapletons into the league.

The following links connect to newspaper articles and photos of the Giants-Yankees 1927 contests from the Green Bay Press-Gazette, Brooklyn Daily Times, NY Daily News, NY Times and NY Herald-Tribune. There's a great Cal Hubbard anecdote in one of the preview articles too.

Enjoy!

https://i.imgur.com/ta7me7e.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/95Sawhl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sfVqV0h.png

https://i.imgur.com/TsBxG4r.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NbQmGR6.png

https://i.imgur.com/T7gZKNY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/IWsINJj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kyqYzZG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JwubM6O.png

https://i.imgur.com/XeoJJbB.png

https://i.imgur.com/Ry6AUQV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Zjla697.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nTq5JNn.png

https://i.imgur.com/3smvFFv.png

https://i.imgur.com/gDtpyge.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wLcIyBp.jpg





I reposted the NY Herald-Tribune game summary  
truebluelarry : 11/7/2019 8:57 am : link
the first one was too small to read.

https://i.imgur.com/0gNm0uT.png

If there are any others that need to be blown up let me know.
Thank you for posting this!  
smshmth8690 : 11/7/2019 10:51 am : link
.
Other inter city issues  
Defenderdawg : 11/7/2019 12:02 pm : link
1950

“Day 31 (Jan. 18): COLLINS BOYCOTTS MEETING WITH BELL
GIANTS ARE ASSIGNED 6 TOP PLAYERS FROM AAC YANKEES
As part of the merger agreement, New York Bulldogs owner Ted Collins had purchased the rights to all but six of the 32 players on the AAC’s New York Yankees, gaining the right to play the 1950 season at Yankee Stadium. The Giants would have their choice of six players and keep playing at the Polo Grounds. Collins and Giants’ owner Tim Mara couldn’t reach an agreement on players, so Bell ordered both men to appear before him at 4:00 to determine which six players would be allotted to Mara.
Unhappy with Bell’s solution, Collins declined to appear. The Giants and Bulldogs were to take turns on reserving six players, and Bell
acted as the representative of the Bulldogs for that purpose. The Giants came away with Arnie Weinmeister, Otto Schnellbacher, and Tom Landry, Dan Garza (who didn’t play), John Mastrangelo, and Harmon Rowe
were the others. While Bell’s first six choices for Collins were kept secret, the Bulldogs owner got Buddy Young, Jack Russell and Joe Signaigo. Collins ended up releasing all but five of his 1949 Bulldogs team, while hiring 15 of the AAC Yankees, and their coach, Red Strader. Though the Colts, Browns and 49ers
were the only 3 AAC clubs officially included in the merger agreement, the AAFC Yankees replaced the NFL. Bulldogs for all practical purposes, surviving the merger nearly intact and becoming the New York Yanks.”

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/26-04-1034.pdf

“With the demise of the All-America Conference following the 1949 season, the New York Giants acquired negotiating rights to Weinmeister and several other ex-Yankees, including Otto Schnellbacher and Tom Landry. Ted Collins, whose New York Bulldogs (as the Boston Yanks) had originally chosen Arnie in the N.F.L. draft, was furious. Arnie himself was not too pleased when he discovered that the Giants intended to cut his salary by 30%. Nevertheless, the 1950 Arnie became a Giant. By the following year he was earning $11,000 annually, top wages for a tackle.”

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/04-03-088.pdf

1966-1967 NFL AFL merger

The Giants received cash for surrendering their territorial rights and the right to use their first round draft selection to draft first overall in 1967 or 1968 to select a quarterback or to trade that right to another team in a trade for a quarterback (i.e. Fran Tarkenton)
These are awesome!  
markky : 11/7/2019 12:06 pm : link
thanks for posting
Means absolutely nothing!? The losing teams coach is 100 percent  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 12:07 pm : link
punching his unemployment ticket! J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS!

God I hate Shurmur and I hate even more after his speech about accountability. Maybe the time for that was after 3 straight losses and getting embarressed at home against a rookie QB and coach in a completely winnable game that players were blowing assignments left and right? Just maybe. This guy is a born loser and is comfortable with losing.
RE: Other inter city issues  
truebluelarry : 11/7/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14668193 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
1950

“Day 31 (Jan. 18): COLLINS BOYCOTTS MEETING WITH BELL
GIANTS ARE ASSIGNED 6 TOP PLAYERS FROM AAC YANKEES
As part of the merger agreement, New York Bulldogs owner Ted Collins had purchased the rights to all but six of the 32 players on the AAC’s New York Yankees, gaining the right to play the 1950 season at Yankee Stadium. The Giants would have their choice of six players and keep playing at the Polo Grounds. Collins and Giants’ owner Tim Mara couldn’t reach an agreement on players, so Bell ordered both men to appear before him at 4:00 to determine which six players would be allotted to Mara.
Unhappy with Bell’s solution, Collins declined to appear. The Giants and Bulldogs were to take turns on reserving six players, and Bell
acted as the representative of the Bulldogs for that purpose. The Giants came away with Arnie Weinmeister, Otto Schnellbacher, and Tom Landry, Dan Garza (who didn’t play), John Mastrangelo, and Harmon Rowe
were the others. While Bell’s first six choices for Collins were kept secret, the Bulldogs owner got Buddy Young, Jack Russell and Joe Signaigo. Collins ended up releasing all but five of his 1949 Bulldogs team, while hiring 15 of the AAC Yankees, and their coach, Red Strader. Though the Colts, Browns and 49ers
were the only 3 AAC clubs officially included in the merger agreement, the AAFC Yankees replaced the NFL. Bulldogs for all practical purposes, surviving the merger nearly intact and becoming the New York Yanks.”


In Steve Owen's book "My Kind Of Football" he said the Giants and Yanks had a type of expansion-style draft where they were given the opportunity to select 12 player - six each - in an alternating fashion.

The Yanks won the coin toss and selected first and took Buddy young, whom Colin's desperately wanted as a gate attraction as he was the player with the most renown. The Giants took Weinmeister with the second pick and used all six on defensive players.
Thanks Larry - Great stuff  
kinard : 11/7/2019 2:05 pm : link
5,000 Giants fans at that game.

That's more Giants fans than they'll have at the Giants-Eagles game on December 29.

RE: Means absolutely nothing!? The losing teams coach is 100 percent  
BamaBlue : 11/7/2019 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14668208 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
punching his unemployment ticket! J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS!

God I hate Shurmur and I hate even more after his speech about accountability. Maybe the time for that was after 3 straight losses and getting embarressed at home against a rookie QB and coach in a completely winnable game that players were blowing assignments left and right? Just maybe. This guy is a born loser and is comfortable with losing.


Wow... that's a lot of hate in a total 180 from the thread topic.
my Grandfather played for 3 of those NYC teams  
markky : 11/7/2019 6:15 pm : link
Giants, Yankees, Lions.
RE: my Grandfather played for 3 of those NYC teams  
truebluelarry : 11/7/2019 7:21 pm : link
In comment 14668638 markky said:
Quote:
Giants, Yankees, Lions.


What's his name?
I like  
Daniel in MI : 11/7/2019 7:29 pm : link
the article (third one I think) that says the Giants big men up front weigh 227 and 238.
There was a guard Art Stevenson from Pennsylvania  
Defenderdawg : 11/7/2019 9:39 pm : link
Who played for the Lions and Giants in 1926 and the Yanks in 1927
RE: There was a guard Art Stevenson from Pennsylvania  
truebluelarry : 11/8/2019 6:09 am : link
In comment 14668781 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
Who played for the Lions and Giants in 1926 and the Yanks in 1927

Yes, of course!
We're actually looking into the possibility he also played in 1925, as he appears in a mystery photo.
RE: Other inter city issues  
GiantsUA : 11/8/2019 7:13 am : link
In comment 14668193 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
1950

“Day 31 (Jan. 18): COLLINS BOYCOTTS MEETING WITH BELL
GIANTS ARE ASSIGNED 6 TOP PLAYERS FROM AAC YANKEES
As part of the merger agreement, New York Bulldogs owner Ted Collins had purchased the rights to all but six of the 32 players on the AAC’s New York Yankees, gaining the right to play the 1950 season at Yankee Stadium. The Giants would have their choice of six players and keep playing at the Polo Grounds. Collins and Giants’ owner Tim Mara couldn’t reach an agreement on players, so Bell ordered both men to appear before him at 4:00 to determine which six players would be allotted to Mara.
Unhappy with Bell’s solution, Collins declined to appear. The Giants and Bulldogs were to take turns on reserving six players, and Bell
acted as the representative of the Bulldogs for that purpose. The Giants came away with Arnie Weinmeister, Otto Schnellbacher, and Tom Landry, Dan Garza (who didn’t play), John Mastrangelo, and Harmon Rowe
were the others. While Bell’s first six choices for Collins were kept secret, the Bulldogs owner got Buddy Young, Jack Russell and Joe Signaigo. Collins ended up releasing all but five of his 1949 Bulldogs team, while hiring 15 of the AAC Yankees, and their coach, Red Strader. Though the Colts, Browns and 49ers
were the only 3 AAC clubs officially included in the merger agreement, the AAFC Yankees replaced the NFL. Bulldogs for all practical purposes, surviving the merger nearly intact and becoming the New York Yanks.”

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/26-04-1034.pdf

“With the demise of the All-America Conference following the 1949 season, the New York Giants acquired negotiating rights to Weinmeister and several other ex-Yankees, including Otto Schnellbacher and Tom Landry. Ted Collins, whose New York Bulldogs (as the Boston Yanks) had originally chosen Arnie in the N.F.L. draft, was furious. Arnie himself was not too pleased when he discovered that the Giants intended to cut his salary by 30%. Nevertheless, the 1950 Arnie became a Giant. By the following year he was earning $11,000 annually, top wages for a tackle.”

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/04-03-088.pdf

1966-1967 NFL AFL merger

The Giants received cash for surrendering their territorial rights and the right to use their first round draft selection to draft first overall in 1967 or 1968 to select a quarterback or to trade that right to another team in a trade for a quarterback (i.e. Fran Tarkenton)


YES! Giants got Tom Landry!
RE: RE: There was a guard Art Stevenson from Pennsylvania  
markky : 11/8/2019 8:00 am : link
In comment 14668882 truebluelarry said:
Quote:
In comment 14668781 Defenderdawg said:


Quote:


Who played for the Lions and Giants in 1926 and the Yanks in 1927


Yes, of course!
We're actually looking into the possibility he also played in 1925, as he appears in a mystery photo.


yes, that's him. From originally Bradford, Pennsylvania. He lived in Bronxville NY when I was growing up.

I remember growing up my grandmother had a small gold football (about 1 inch long) that she said the owners gave to all of the players from one championship season.
RE: RE: RE: There was a guard Art Stevenson from Pennsylvania  
truebluelarry : 11/8/2019 8:46 am : link
In comment 14668915 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 14668882 truebluelarry said:


Quote:


In comment 14668781 Defenderdawg said:


Quote:


Who played for the Lions and Giants in 1926 and the Yanks in 1927


Yes, of course!
We're actually looking into the possibility he also played in 1925, as he appears in a mystery photo.



yes, that's him. From originally Bradford, Pennsylvania. He lived in Bronxville NY when I was growing up.

I remember growing up my grandmother had a small gold football (about 1 inch long) that she said the owners gave to all of the players from one championship season.


If you ever find any more photos of him in a game please send them my way. Mike and I are trying to definitively place him on the 1925 team if possible, despite what the game program rosters say.
Back to the Corner