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Pat Shurmur To Players: It's Make or Break Time

Brown Recluse : 11/7/2019 9:12 am
Apologies if this was already posted.

Quote:
Before the Giants’ first practice of the week Wednesday, Shurmur delivered a stern message to his team. He also issued an ultimatum.

“Guys understand those mistakes are unacceptable and if individuals don’t get it corrected, they probably won’t be playing anymore,” said one player.

NJ Advance Media surveyed several players following Wednesday’s practice about the meeting. The players were granted anonymity so they could reveal Shurmur’s message.

“It’s time," the player said. "There’s no more waiting around. It’s not about growing pains. It’s time to get it done.”

Added one special teams player: “It isn’t a sense of panic, it’s a sense of urgency.”

After five consecutive losses, Shurmur cut music from Wednesday’s jog-through practice and tried to put the commitment he’s asking of his players into perspective.


I see something like this and my first thought is that he is really feeling the heat right now.

I know most expected he'd be back next season to continue mentoring Daniel Jones, but some of the things that have happened this season may have accelerated the countdown clock for him. If the Giants lose to the Jets this weekend, it could all but seal is fate potentially in my view.


Giants on Pat Shurmur’s ultimatum: ‘It’s make or break for all of us’ - ( New Window )
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The way Shurmur has been managing...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 12:50 pm : link
and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...
Lets focus on what's important  
twostepgiants : 11/7/2019 12:51 pm : link
Can we score the most points in the division again?
all his chips to the center of the table  
Torrag : 11/7/2019 12:51 pm : link
Please don't compare shurmur to what was a relevant and timely call out from Fassel that contributed to a deep playoff run.
Make or break  
PaulN : 11/7/2019 1:01 pm : link
Time for Shurmur's job. Make or break time for the fucking team has long passed. Jets will destroy us, so I am not worried, this will be one game I don't watch, first game since 1961 I will miss. I can not hope to win a game that could save his job, sorry, but this guy must go, and Gettleman must be put on the hot seat. Shurmur must be fired and at the minimum Gettleman must be told his time is running out, or better yet, clean house, starting over is perfectly okay if they hire the right people.
RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
Nine-Tails : 11/7/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14668326 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...


He hasn't done anything to warrant reassurance from them. But with Mara, he definitely could have said something positive behind closed doors. After "firing" coughlin, we didnt get much interest in our job, I always wondered why that was with the long leash Mara affords.
'we didnt get much interest in our job'  
Torrag : 11/7/2019 1:14 pm : link
Unsubstantiated bullshit. There are 32 NFL HC jobs in the world. This crap narrative that coaches wouldn't come here is just that...crap. Would every coach? Maybe not but then again there are plenty of coaches the Giants wouldn't hire. Thank God.
Nine-Tails...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 1:17 pm : link
It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...
RE: Nine-Tails...  
Giantology : 11/7/2019 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...


Radio silence from "Jints Central" mid-season is nothing new, you can let your conspiracy theories rest.
RE: Nine-Tails...  
Chris684 : 11/7/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...


Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.
RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14668326 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...
I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.
About damn time  
Dave in PA : 11/7/2019 1:53 pm : link
this attitude should have been in place before week 1. How has there not been a sense of urgency from the get go? Lousy coach
RE: RE: Nine-Tails...  
cosmicj : 11/7/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.
i also read this as meaning that Shurmur is feeling intense pressure. Recall that he lost control of himself in the 4th quarter on Monday night. You’ve got to feel for him on the human level. I’m sure he’s a good person. He actually might be a good HC prospect at the college level.
RE: RE: Nine-Tails...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:


Quote:


It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...



Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.


I was actually wondering about the possibility. I didn't say it was conclusive.

From the recent Eli Saga to the recent OBJ Saga, I don't know how anyone can take anything off the table at this point...
RE: RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14668389 Les in TO said:
Quote:
I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.


In a normal football operation, yes, Shurmur should be desperate.

But there is nothing normal about this organization...
RE: RE: RE: Nine-Tails...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/7/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14668404 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:


Quote:


Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.

i also read this as meaning that Shurmur is feeling intense pressure. Recall that he lost control of himself in the 4th quarter on Monday night. You’ve got to feel for him on the human level. I’m sure he’s a good person. He actually might be a good HC prospect at the college level.

Why do the Giants realize you need the not too big for me ice water veins QB in NYC, but not coach?

I mean fucking joke Mcadoo and Shemur ffs?
Coward  
mdc1 : 11/7/2019 2:25 pm : link
Bad Coach
RE: RE: RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14668424 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14668389 Les in TO said:


Quote:


I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.



In a normal football operation, yes, Shurmur should be desperate.

But there is nothing normal about this organization...
Mara manages reactively to fans. If enough fans boo or don’t show up for the remaining home games he’ll fire the coach. Handley Reeves Fassel and McAdoo were either fired by him or his dad after or during one or two bad seasons because fans were pissed. He green lighted the Manning benching in 2017 and this year because of fan turbulence. He reversed the Manning decision in 2017 because of the reaction. So unless the Giants break off a streak of 6-7 wins, fans will continue to boo/not show up/fly messages on planes, and Mara will boot Shurmur.
Attention to detail  
Reale01 : 11/7/2019 3:24 pm : link
We are sloppy and the lack of discipline is alarming. This should have been addressed after this first game. I created a thread that lists a few of the many specifics. Its very basic pee wee football stuff in many cases.

Shurmur can't change who he is. The players will not respect that and will not respond. Is there a part of him that can demand accountability and precision? We will see.

The biggest problem with the Giants is not our schemes, game management could improve but even that is not the largest problem. I don't even think its players, for the most part we are not getting physically beaten. I think they are good enough players to be a 500 team.

Defense
Maintain proper leverage
Gap integrity and pass rush lanes
Assignment sound
Rally to the ball
Tackle

Offense
Proper position and technique
Assignment sound: Pick up stunts, proper angles
Catch the ball
Do not fumble the ball

This all basic stuff.
Yes, we can use Barkley and Engram better, but it won't matter if we don't have the basics down.

The OL coach and LB coach in particular should be all over their guys as they area playing with all the disciplne of frightened squirrels.
all these comments  
BigBlueCane : 11/7/2019 3:39 pm : link
and not one Jim Fassel reference.
The team sucks, but it's not because they're listening to music  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/7/2019 4:07 pm : link
At practice. Dont take your eye off the ball and look for convenient excuses. The team sucks as a result of bad roster, bad roster management, and mediocre at best coaching.

The 'culture' excuse is tired. Its performance, not 'culture'. Performance from ownership, from the front office, and from the coaching staff.

FMIC was correct  
joeinpa : 11/7/2019 4:19 pm : link
It turned into another bash Shurmur thread, all good at 7-18.

I m not a coach basher, leave that up to the experts. But the certainty with which many speak of his incompetence is making me really pull hard for him.
RE: RE: RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
Beezer : 11/7/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14668166 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14668164 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14668066 cjac said:


Quote:


got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need



Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.



If Shurmur grabbed anyone's facemask he'd get his bobble penis head ripped off his neck in return.


bahahahahaha ... this thread ... LOL
RE: Shurmur knows it's getting to moral victory season  
djm : 11/7/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14667914 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Right. Because the giants haven’t fired 2 HCs over the last 5 seasons or anything...

RE: all these comments  
jcn56 : 11/7/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14668509 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
and not one Jim Fassel reference.


Shurmur's got no chips to push.

Fassel gets a bad rap around here, he got them to a Super Bowl. Shurmur's still waiting on that first playoff appearance.
I’m not singling anyone out  
djm : 11/7/2019 4:41 pm : link
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!
RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/7/2019 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14668580 djm said:
Quote:
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!

Watch out everybody, djm has his pom poms waving and he's ready to use them as weapons!
RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
HomerJones45 : 11/7/2019 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14668580 djm said:
Quote:
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!
Well which way do you want it: a) he hasn't been doing it until now or b) he's been doing it and no one has paid any attention to him. Neither paints a flattering portrait.
RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14668580 djm said:
Quote:
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!


He doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt from anyone at this point. All he's proven is that he's a bad HC.

Truly, I bet Pat Shurmur is a really nice dude - I'd have no problem grabbing a beer with the guy. He's just sucks at coaching this football team and his career record speaks for itself at this point.
RE: RE: all these comments  
HomerJones45 : 11/7/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14668577 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14668509 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


and not one Jim Fassel reference.



Shurmur's got no chips to push.

Fassel gets a bad rap around here, he got them to a Super Bowl. Shurmur's still waiting on that first playoff appearance.
Playoff appearance??! Shurmur is still waiting for his magical 6 win season.
RE: RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/7/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14668598 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14668580 djm said:


Quote:


And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!



He doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt from anyone at this point. All he's proven is that he's a bad HC.

Truly, I bet Pat Shurmur is a really nice dude - I'd have no problem grabbing a beer with the guy. He's just sucks at coaching this football team and his career record speaks for itself at this point.

As long as he has a Giants logo on his shirt, Shurmur is bulletproof for djm and his allergic reaction to critical thought toward the Giants.
RE: RE: Shurmur knows it's getting to moral victory season  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14668573 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14667914 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



Right. Because the giants haven’t fired 2 HCs over the last 5 seasons or anything...


We're getting to the part of the year where you start telling us how the progress we make now will carry over into 2020. It's the BBI post Halloween tradition - talking current chicken shit into future chicken salad.
I actually think progress can carry over, but people pointing to last  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 6:07 pm : link
years "progress" didn't want to listen at all why the Giants won some of those games, or were competitive.

Bears - Chase Daniels nuff said
Redskins - in utter turmoil at the QB position and OLine starting two weeks before we played them - their season fell apart
Titans - we got dominated, but it was rainy wah
Colts - they had a helluva run to end the season and they came into the Giants game thinking they were getting a break, doesnt work that way in NFL, and handled us in the second half
Cowboys - literally nothing to play for and benched/limited star players on top of that

There were way too many people with their head in the sand about why this team "performed" down the stretch.

Unlike many of you I think we got some nice pieces in place, but this coaching staff is a joke.
RE: I actually think progress can carry over, but people pointing to last  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14668634 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
years "progress" didn't want to listen at all why the Giants won some of those games, or were competitive.

Bears - Chase Daniels nuff said
Redskins - in utter turmoil at the QB position and OLine starting two weeks before we played them - their season fell apart
Titans - we got dominated, but it was rainy wah
Colts - they had a helluva run to end the season and they came into the Giants game thinking they were getting a break, doesnt work that way in NFL, and handled us in the second half
Cowboys - literally nothing to play for and benched/limited star players on top of that

There were way too many people with their head in the sand about why this team "performed" down the stretch.

Unlike many of you I think we got some nice pieces in place, but this coaching staff is a joke.


It's not just the coaching staff. The front office is an equally bad joke.

I know not everyone loves Mike Lombardi, but his podcast today contained this nugget:

- Mara wants to hire Belichick and implement the Patriot program, but he can't hire Belichick
- He wanted McDaniels, but Gettleman blew that up in the interview because he wanted total control on personnel

Shurmur is not the fundamental problem.
I think we've reached the point where the old George Young  
jcn56 : 11/7/2019 6:17 pm : link
hierarchy is outdated. With FA and roster turnover being what it is, there's probably no need for a GM and a HC anymore.

Get a HC who can operate as a GM, and who will have complete program oversight and accountability. Have them bring in scouts that they can work with to find players that fit the schemes they're looking to employ, and to hire coordinators and position coaches that all align themselves accordingly.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug, flush the whole lot, start from scratch. No sense in making tweaks here or there, you just end up with some Frankenstein combination of used parts that don't fit together well.
I'm not sure if hiring McDaniels is wise or not  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/7/2019 6:18 pm : link
But inaction because Dave Gettleman wanted full personnel control is pretty crazy. That sort of clout is usually reserved for GMs with significant resume.
Woah, no music  
Jimmy Googs : 11/7/2019 6:22 pm : link
this is getting serious...
RE: I think we've reached the point where the old George Young  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14668641 jcn56 said:
Quote:
hierarchy is outdated. With FA and roster turnover being what it is, there's probably no need for a GM and a HC anymore.

Get a HC who can operate as a GM, and who will have complete program oversight and accountability. Have them bring in scouts that they can work with to find players that fit the schemes they're looking to employ, and to hire coordinators and position coaches that all align themselves accordingly.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug, flush the whole lot, start from scratch. No sense in making tweaks here or there, you just end up with some Frankenstein combination of used parts that don't fit together well.


God bless you for seeing the light on this. This indeed the way to go. Have all the coordinators, scouts, administrators (e.g. Capologist), etc report directly up the HC/GM. Let that dual position select the exact players he wants to fit his scheme and game-planning for Sundays.

Enough of this extra layer of football fat - the GM...
RE: I think we've reached the point where the old George Young  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14668641 jcn56 said:
Quote:
hierarchy is outdated. With FA and roster turnover being what it is, there's probably no need for a GM and a HC anymore.

Get a HC who can operate as a GM, and who will have complete program oversight and accountability. Have them bring in scouts that they can work with to find players that fit the schemes they're looking to employ, and to hire coordinators and position coaches that all align themselves accordingly.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug, flush the whole lot, start from scratch. No sense in making tweaks here or there, you just end up with some Frankenstein combination of used parts that don't fit together well.


100%
So the Owner wanted McDaniels but the GM overruled the owner?  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 6:49 pm : link
I'm not exactly buying that.
I agree about our too many cooks in the kitchen model thougb  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 6:51 pm : link
It is a way different Era and there is a ton more information at a HC's disposal to help him make GM decisions. Hire a HC who is a program builder and go from there. I think Matt Rhule would be an excellent candidate to do this.
RE: So the Owner wanted McDaniels but the GM overruled the owner?  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:58 pm : link
In comment 14668661 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
I'm not exactly buying that.


No; McDaniels didn't want to work with Gettleman and turned down the job.
The heat is on as it should be !  
Bluesbreaker : 11/7/2019 6:58 pm : link
His offense had a number of chances to score and either
turned the ball over and settled for FG's . Dallas
used the same defense around the goal line and PS had
no answer for it . Even on defense Bethea has lost three
steps at some point you make a change same on offense
Remmers and Halpio have been dreadful . We can see it
what is he not seeing on the coaches tape .
Cripes you have a FB sitting on the bench and your
Giving Engram carries . Put Barkley in on 1st down
Everybody knows he is gonna run SB Shurmur never fools
anyone ever !
RE: RE: So the Owner wanted McDaniels but the GM overruled the owner?  
GiantTuff1 : 11/7/2019 9:38 pm : link
In comment 14668666 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14668661 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


I'm not exactly buying that.



No; McDaniels didn't want to work with Gettleman and turned down the job.


That is fucking horrid.

McDaniels was the guy I was pounding the pavement for last year. If you want the Patriots program and can’t get BB, you get the guy who is most likely to be the next young BB, who took his learning lumps early, and understands that program. Is innovative, creative, adaptive.

I was advocating for Riddick at GM too bc those two were rumored to WANT to work together, as a package deal.

How can you have high level of respect for a potential coach, and then saddle them with a GM that might not perfectly align with their vision? It’s stupidity at its highest level, and at best a gross catering to egos and keeping the good old boys happy. .

Disgusted with this franchise.

Have some f’n vision. Grow some fucking balls.
Go Terps...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 9:43 pm : link
"Mara wants to hire Belichick and implement the Patriot program, but he can't hire Belichick"

Is that like present tense? If so, Mara needs to move heaven & earth to get BB. I don't care what it takes.
RE: FMIC was correct  
Mr. Bungle : 11/7/2019 11:22 pm : link
In comment 14668552 joeinpa said:
Quote:
It turned into another bash Shurmur thread, all good at 7-18.

I m not a coach basher, leave that up to the experts. But the certainty with which many speak of his incompetence is making me really pull hard for him.

So if he were 14-36 early in his fourth season, you'd really, REALLY pull hard for him! He'd really deserve it!
I’d be fine with giving McDaniels full control..  
Sean : 11/7/2019 11:37 pm : link
Hire him first & let him have a say in the GM. Give him massive security to allow him to build a program (similar to Shanahan in SF).
People still haven't learned to avoid Belichick assistants yet?  
Greg from LI : 11/7/2019 11:38 pm : link
The hell with Josh McDaniels.
RE: Go Terps...  
Go Terps : 11/8/2019 1:10 am : link
In comment 14668784 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
"Mara wants to hire Belichick and implement the Patriot program, but he can't hire Belichick"

Is that like present tense? If so, Mara needs to move heaven & earth to get BB. I don't care what it takes.


This is the impression I got from listening to Lombardi. Mara wants Belichick but Belichick isn't available.
RE: People still haven't learned to avoid Belichick assistants yet?  
Sean : 11/8/2019 6:50 am : link
In comment 14668855 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The hell with Josh McDaniels.


So far I know you don’t like Rhule or McDaniels - any name you want? Of course, we all want Belichick, but I have to assume that isn’t an option.
Ah this  
mittenedman : 11/8/2019 8:45 am : link
“Let’s just copy the Patriots” shit again that gets past off as some kind of genius insight.

Sure Josh freaking McDaniels without BB or Ernie Adams is going to come here and do what Belichick did. Unreal.

There is one guy on the planet who can do that. The Pats without Lil Bill are the worst team in football. Trying to copy the Pats without BB is a fool’s errand and why NO ONE else in the NFL has been able to do so.
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