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Pat Shurmur To Players: It's Make or Break Time

Brown Recluse : 11/7/2019 9:12 am
Apologies if this was already posted.

Quote:
Before the Giants’ first practice of the week Wednesday, Shurmur delivered a stern message to his team. He also issued an ultimatum.

“Guys understand those mistakes are unacceptable and if individuals don’t get it corrected, they probably won’t be playing anymore,” said one player.

NJ Advance Media surveyed several players following Wednesday’s practice about the meeting. The players were granted anonymity so they could reveal Shurmur’s message.

“It’s time," the player said. "There’s no more waiting around. It’s not about growing pains. It’s time to get it done.”

Added one special teams player: “It isn’t a sense of panic, it’s a sense of urgency.”

After five consecutive losses, Shurmur cut music from Wednesday’s jog-through practice and tried to put the commitment he’s asking of his players into perspective.


I see something like this and my first thought is that he is really feeling the heat right now.

I know most expected he'd be back next season to continue mentoring Daniel Jones, but some of the things that have happened this season may have accelerated the countdown clock for him. If the Giants lose to the Jets this weekend, it could all but seal is fate potentially in my view.


Giants on Pat Shurmur’s ultimatum: ‘It’s make or break for all of us’ - ( New Window )
I don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/7/2019 9:15 am : link
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.
I take this to mean that  
Giantology : 11/7/2019 9:17 am : link
Shurmur is starting to feel the heat from under his seat.
RE: I don't..  
Britt in VA : 11/7/2019 9:17 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.


Yeah, I agree with you.

This is actually positive to hear from me, especially about the guys who agree with him even under the condition of being anonymous.

I don't like Shurmur, but it's time for this and people need to start getting held accountable. Like Jenkins.
Make or break time  
Reb8thVA : 11/7/2019 9:18 am : link
was about three weeks ago.

Now is just the time to see if the ship can be righted.
FMIC  
jvm52106 : 11/7/2019 9:19 am : link
I agree but, why 2-7 to start "teaching"...
It's been said before...  
nzyme : 11/7/2019 9:19 am : link
Both Chris Bisignano from Giants Insider and Patty Traina from Giants Locked On Podcast both have mentioned if that Shurmur loses the Jets game that he could be gone.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 9:19 am : link
He's definitely feeling the heat. He knows he has to win games right now otherwise he's not getting another season.

He won't lose his job this year - but he's not coming back next year unless we start winning football games here. He knows that. This is probably his last-gasp as an NFL HC. Time is running out really fast.
RE: FMIC  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/7/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14667904 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
I agree but, why 2-7 to start "teaching"...


We shouldn't be naive enough to think he just started teaching. The season is lost and he knows that young players need to understand that there are still games to play and that they can't just give up. Part of being a professional player
Shurmur knows it's getting to moral victory season  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 9:27 am : link
.
If he wants to truly send a message  
Jay on the Island : 11/7/2019 9:27 am : link
he would bench a starter that is struggling. There are plenty to choose from, Halapio, Bethea, Solder, Remmers, Ogeltree, etc.

I am not a Pulley fan but it's time to give him a shot. Hopefully Halapio's injury causes him to sit out on Sunday. If he misses the game I have a feeling he won't get his starting job back unless Pulley suffers an injury.
Translation:  
GiantsUA : 11/7/2019 9:28 am : link
We will not lose to the NYJ this week.
RE: FMIC  
micky : 11/7/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14667904 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
I agree but, why 2-7 to start "teaching"...


I know it should've been from day 1..
So if Jones fumbles  
cjac : 11/7/2019 9:31 am : link
he's going to the bench?

i'm calling bullshit
RE: It's been said before...  
joeinpa : 11/7/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14667905 nzyme said:
Quote:
Both Chris Bisignano from Giants Insider and Patty Traina from Giants Locked On Podcast both have mentioned if that Shurmur loses the Jets game that he could be gone.


Bisignano also mentioned that many of the veterans are tired of the rookie mistakes and don’t believe they are being professional in their preparation, in particular was mentioned D. Baker.
"Probably wont be playing anymore"  
twostepgiants : 11/7/2019 9:32 am : link
Someone put that on a shirt
Hilarity Ensues  
arniefez : 11/7/2019 9:33 am : link
2-7 this year. 7-18 so far. Now is the time.
A real leader  
Mr. Bungle : 11/7/2019 9:33 am : link
would have been doing this in August.
he is so over his head  
larryflower37 : 11/7/2019 9:39 am : link
he was a good coordinator but is a horrible HC.
with the talent on this team I believe they could have won a couple more games this year. Not a playoff team but something to build on.
here's the thing with Shurmur  
ryanmkeane : 11/7/2019 9:43 am : link
he's finally stepping out and saying something AFTER we started 2-7. How about have some fucking urgency in August? September?

I like that he's doing this, but it's too late. It doesn't matter if you deliver this message and you wind up 6-10.
Damning article....  
nzyme : 11/7/2019 9:43 am : link
Read this freaking article. The title doesn't tell the story. Read the quotes from the players especially from Golden Tate.... This should NOT happen under a competent head coach!

Disgusting
FMIC  
ryanmkeane : 11/7/2019 9:44 am : link
this is definitely not a bash Shurmur session, but how can you ignore his record and pretty much terrible coaching to date? We've really seen nothing from him that would be a positive. He was hired to be a great play caller and good head coach for this team moving forward, a steady hand. He has been none of that.
RE: A real leader  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14667930 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
would have been doing this in August.


Ding ding.

The Giants could win out and I wouldn't care. You can't do anything if you're starting 2-7 or 1-8.
He can read the handwriting on the wall.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 9:48 am : link
A loss Sunday probably is a death sentence to this buffoon. That's why I'm hoping we lose.
RE: Damning article....  
joeinpa : 11/7/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14667945 nzyme said:
Quote:
Read this freaking article. The title doesn't tell the story. Read the quotes from the players especially from Golden Tate.... This should NOT happen under a competent head coach!

Disgusting


Thanks good read. Wish more guys had Tate s attitude
i agree with Shurmur's message as long as that message is  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 11/7/2019 9:51 am : link
spread throughout the coaching ranks also as well as himself.

As Sy pointed out in his review, it is Shurmur's job to figure out ways to get the ball in the hands of our best playmaker as other teams do with their top running backs. My issue with Shurmur, outside of the fact his record is 7-18, is that he is a system coach...there does not seem to be any flexibility to his coaching. My god, you have a player like Saquon and you have to figure out multiple ways to get him the ball, not just running it and I agree he is not running it very well right now.

The best trait BB has is his ability to adapt...outside of Brady and maybe Gronk, their offensive talent is at best good. But he finds ways to put players in positions to succeed and use their strengths. Shurmur has shown no ability to do this.

To me, it is on everyone on the Giants...coaches and players. No more excuses...time to step up.
RE: Damning article....  
cjac : 11/7/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14667945 nzyme said:
Quote:
Read this freaking article. The title doesn't tell the story. Read the quotes from the players especially from Golden Tate.... This should NOT happen under a competent head coach!

Disgusting


I didnt see in there where a veteran was pointing a finger at any of the rookies. It should have said

"Giants players getting tired of losing amid their own mistakes"

No one on this team is playing well, its not just the rookies
This is nice but would have been great before the AZ game  
Chris684 : 11/7/2019 9:54 am : link
in which the season was completely lost.

3 weeks too late.

RE: RE: Damning article....  
jcn56 : 11/7/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14667964 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 14667945 nzyme said:


Quote:


Read this freaking article. The title doesn't tell the story. Read the quotes from the players especially from Golden Tate.... This should NOT happen under a competent head coach!

Disgusting



I didnt see in there where a veteran was pointing a finger at any of the rookies. It should have said

"Giants players getting tired of losing amid their own mistakes"

No one on this team is playing well, its not just the rookies


That's not the article that was pulled from, joeinpa above mentions it was Bisignano's podcast.
here's what is going to happen  
ryanmkeane : 11/7/2019 9:59 am : link
we are going to beat the Jets, Dolphins, maybe the Skins, and then probably squeak out another win somehow to finish 6-10. The narrative from Shurmur is that we "fought" and "improved" down the stretch and went 4-3 in our last 7 games and hey, "if we had started out that way, our season would have been great" and also we "made strides" from last year, winning a total of 1 more game than last season.

Then in 2020 we will start out 1-4 and wonder why the hell he is still the coach.
RE: I don't..  
HomerJones45 : 11/7/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.
Shurmur has merited every bashing he has received. And yes, the time to "send the message that this shit isn't acceptable" to rookies is during OTA's, not more than halfway through the season. If Shurmur has been doing this all along as you believe, then no one is listening which is a problem in of itself.
RE: here's what is going to happen  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 10:02 am : link
In comment 14667976 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we are going to beat the Jets, Dolphins, maybe the Skins, and then probably squeak out another win somehow to finish 6-10. The narrative from Shurmur is that we "fought" and "improved" down the stretch and went 4-3 in our last 7 games and hey, "if we had started out that way, our season would have been great" and also we "made strides" from last year, winning a total of 1 more game than last season.

Then in 2020 we will start out 1-4 and wonder why the hell he is still the coach.


I won't be surprised at all if we lose to two of those three teams.

I see a 4-12 finish, personally. We'll win one or two of those 3 games and if it's one, we'll get some bullshit win somewhere else somehow.

We can discuss and entertain improvement if the Giants go 6-1 or 5-2 the rest of the way. (They won't) 3-4 the rest of the way should do nothing but get the coach and the entire staff fired.
There goes the horse!  
trueblueinpw : 11/7/2019 10:04 am : link
Time to shut the barn door.




RE: here's what is going to happen  
Chris684 : 11/7/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14667976 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we are going to beat the Jets, Dolphins, maybe the Skins, and then probably squeak out another win somehow to finish 6-10. The narrative from Shurmur is that we "fought" and "improved" down the stretch and went 4-3 in our last 7 games and hey, "if we had started out that way, our season would have been great" and also we "made strides" from last year, winning a total of 1 more game than last season.

Then in 2020 we will start out 1-4 and wonder why the hell he is still the coach.


Don't be so sure this team reaches 6 wins. I'm still not sure they make it to 5.

The NFL is weird. I don't love Sam Darnold as a long-term answer for the Jets but his problems the last few weeks have been with pressure, something we can't consistently generate.

I don't know if we win or lose but I guarantee you we are going to see the Darnold that showed up against Dallas vs. the Darnold of the last few weeks.
can't wait until 2-7 to act this way  
UConn4523 : 11/7/2019 10:06 am : link
while nice to hear its disappointing that he didn't have this kind of urgency prior to us basically getting eliminated from the playoffs.

I hope our next HC has the stones to rock these players on day 1. There's so many young guys and so few vets that you can establish a new culture immediately and move on from this mess. They really need to nail the next hire, whenever the hell that is.
RE: FMIC  
santacruzom : 11/7/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14667904 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
I agree but, why 2-7 to start "teaching"...


And also, is anyone delivering a version of Shurmur's message to Shurmur himself?
Bad...  
richinpa : 11/7/2019 10:07 am : link
If you manage folks now in your real life, you know getting to this point is really POOR management . Its desperation

Players who have respect for their coach and bring it day to day with top of their game don't need this type of desperation speech

Its 9 games too late and shows me that he isn't the type of coach that not only is good for young guys but also a head coach

they smell desperation. And this messaging is piss poor
RE: I don't..  
Mike from SI : 11/7/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.


I mean why did he do this now and not 3 or 4 weeks ago? The season is over now.
RE: I don't..  
pjcas18 : 11/7/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.


Agree, but maybe he could have had this discussion in August.

not being snarky, but in all seriousness would having this discussion before the team was 2 - 7 have changed anything?

Probably not, but at 2 - 7 it just seems a little late (for this year at least)
RE: Shurmur knows it's getting to moral victory season  
santacruzom : 11/7/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14667914 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Indeed. If the Giants cobble together a few blowouts against the Jets, Dolphins and perhaps the Redskins, he'll be able to pitch it as an improvement, or as exceeding expectations of a very young team addled by injuries.
RE: can't wait until 2-7 to act this way  
Chris684 : 11/7/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14667990 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
while nice to hear its disappointing that he didn't have this kind of urgency prior to us basically getting eliminated from the playoffs.

I hope our next HC has the stones to rock these players on day 1. There's so many young guys and so few vets that you can establish a new culture immediately and move on from this mess. They really need to nail the next hire, whenever the hell that is.


Amen.

There is no reason this team can't be 4-5 right now with a big game to get to .500 before the BYE.

This year went off the rails against AZ and Detroit. Two extremely winnable games.
RE: I don't..  
M.S. : 11/7/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.

Problem is... should have been done right after the first Dallas game. Shurmur is a little late here. Translation: He's an ex-NFL coach at the end of this season.
I didn't care about draft position because I was tired of losing  
Jay on the Island : 11/7/2019 10:14 am : link
Now I don't care if they lose as long as Jones plays well and limits the fumbles. If they finish with a poor enough record it not only increases their chances of landing Andrew Thomas, Chase Young, or Jerry Jeudy but it also makes it more likely that ownership will fire Shurmur.

There are some good HC options but I like the idea of raiding the Cowboys staff. Not only do I think Kris Richard can be a very good HC but it would also be a huge blow to the Cowboys defense. He might also be able to bring Rod Marinelli along with him.

.  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 10:14 am : link
And yeah - I agree with you guys. 9 games into the year isn't where this type of urgency should just start to surface.

This is a message that needed to be delivered in August. You should coach with urgency from Day 1. It's a 16 game season. You can't just 'ease in' and then tell the guys they're now more accountable for their play in November.

He just seems like he's constantly behind the ball.
RE: .  
Thegratefulhead : 11/7/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14667906 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
He's definitely feeling the heat. He knows he has to win games right now otherwise he's not getting another season.

He won't lose his job this year - but he's not coming back next year unless we start winning football games here. He knows that. This is probably his last-gasp as an NFL HC. Time is running out really fast.
I said this before the season. It was why I was so bullish on Jones getting the start early. If Shurmur fails he will not get another HC job...no way. The arrow needs to point up and the players can sink him...they might choose to. Very curious to see the EFFORT of players Sunday. I think Shurmur HAS to beat the Jets.
He's constantly behind the ball because he's  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 10:19 am : link
a horrible head coach.
How's this going to work  
Simms11 : 11/7/2019 10:21 am : link
with a young QB and Pro Bowl Running Back making mistakes? Will he yank them too?! I don't think so.
The make or break game was Arizona  
Sean : 11/7/2019 10:24 am : link
.
RE: RE: It's been said before...  
Brown Recluse : 11/7/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14667923 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14667905 nzyme said:


Quote:


Both Chris Bisignano from Giants Insider and Patty Traina from Giants Locked On Podcast both have mentioned if that Shurmur loses the Jets game that he could be gone.



Bisignano also mentioned that many of the veterans are tired of the rookie mistakes and don’t believe they are being professional in their preparation, in particular was mentioned D. Baker.


I heard him mention this as well. It's really a shame because the Giants needed Baker to be productive this season. Apparently he still thinks he's hot shit and doesn't want to study film like a professional.
Also generally speaking - threats  
pjcas18 : 11/7/2019 10:25 am : link
like this are about as impactful as a parent saying "don't make me turn this car around"

Janoris Jenkins is still playing. Other players see this.
RE: I don't..  
Justlurking : 11/7/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.


Shouldnt this message have been delivered in August?
I Think the OP is on to Something  
Jim in Tampa : 11/7/2019 10:29 am : link
Maybe instead of having a Countdown Clock to the Super Bowl the Giants should have a Countdown Clock to the expiration date on their latest HC.

The countdown timer was once again set for two years and the damn thing won't stop ticking.
RE: RE: A real leader  
.McL. : 11/7/2019 10:33 am : link
In comment 14667950 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14667930 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


would have been doing this in August.



Ding ding.

The Giants could win out and I wouldn't care. You can't do anything if you're starting 2-7 or 1-8.

Yes in August....
of 2018!!!

As a manager and leader of people, you set your expectations on DAY 1. You demand that folks meet those expectations, and you make sure that there are consequences for those who don't, right from the start. You also reward those who do a good job meeting or exceeding those expectations. And yes you try to make it fun, but professional, in that EVERYBODY KNOWS what's expected and know the consequences.

If you are doing this 1 1/2 years in, you are 1 1/2 years too late!
RE: .  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14668008 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
And yeah - I agree with you guys. 9 games into the year isn't where this type of urgency should just start to surface.

This is a message that needed to be delivered in August. You should coach with urgency from Day 1. It's a 16 game season. You can't just 'ease in' and then tell the guys they're now more accountable for their play in November.

He just seems like he's constantly behind the ball.
Amen. One pillar of any good culture is accountability. It should have been instilled in the first practice in the offseason. There is no accountability. Players are making business decisions missing assignments and getting pushed around (including our free agents who didn’t look this bad on their former teams). Shurmur is always a day late and a dollar short. This is a soft mistake heavy team.
RE: RE: RE: A real leader  
.McL. : 11/7/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14668031 .McL. said:
Quote:

Yes in August....
of 2018!!!

If you are doing this 1 1/2 years in, you are 1 1/2 years too late!

Parcells admitted that he screwed this up his first year.
After that how long do you think he waited before taking this approach?
How about Coughlin?
Bellichick?
Gibbs?
Walsh?
Lombardi?

Any every HoF coach you can name?
Dhurmur got hi mulligan in Cleveland  
.McL. : 11/7/2019 10:38 am : link
He should have known better this time around.
RE: .  
Justlurking : 11/7/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14668008 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
And yeah - I agree with you guys. 9 games into the year isn't where this type of urgency should just start to surface.

This is a message that needed to be delivered in August. You should coach with urgency from Day 1. It's a 16 game season. You can't just 'ease in' and then tell the guys they're now more accountable for their play in November.

He just seems like he's constantly behind the ball.


Losers gonna lose. He's just a terrible HC. He and Gettleman need to GTFOH.

RE: Bad...  
lawguy9801 : 11/7/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14667993 richinpa said:
Quote:
If you manage folks now in your real life, you know getting to this point is really POOR management . Its desperation

Players who have respect for their coach and bring it day to day with top of their game don't need this type of desperation speech

Its 9 games too late and shows me that he isn't the type of coach that not only is good for young guys but also a head coach

they smell desperation. And this messaging is piss poor


This. Tolerance for mistakes, week after week. A rookie who has started at CB for over half the season admitting he doesn't fully know the playbook. No accountability, no fear of letting your teammates down, no fear of consequences. And as others have mentioned, being a rigid system coach instead of a Belichick-like flexibility and ability to change your approach as necessary to put your team in the best position to win each week. Shurmur has proven himself to be a poor leader of men.
Coughlin (not at his age but 10 years ago Coughlin)  
UConn4523 : 11/7/2019 10:48 am : link
would have been perfect for this group. Too many vets on those later Coughlin years for his approach to work out (in addition to the fast pace of the game passing him by), but I can see a guy like him being great for the young guys.

I don't want another tweener. I either want a seasoned vet coach with some NFL success or pluck the top young guy ready to burst on the scene.
Too little too late  
Ozarkman : 11/7/2019 10:49 am : link
I don,t believe that you can just turn it on at this stage of the game. Coughlin set the tone with his first meeting. “On time is late, 5 min early is on time”. One little rule sent a huge message.
RE: I don't..  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on.

I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.
His 25th game as a head coach for this team is not “early on”.
Golden Tate:  
Tim in VA : 11/7/2019 10:54 am : link
“I’m trying to put this very delicately because there is no one to blame,” the wide receiver added. “Not one single person. It’s a collective effort. But just play disciplined football.”

Who has the most impact on a collective effort to play disciplined football? This is a direct indictment of our coaching staff, not our GM.
I hope the same goes for the coaching staff  
PatersonPlank : 11/7/2019 10:54 am : link
Fixed it

"Coaches understand those mistakes are unacceptable and if individuals don’t get it corrected, they probably won’t be coaching anymore,” said one coach.

We were doomed from the start with this hire...  
Chris684 : 11/7/2019 10:56 am : link
I know Dottino gets gets made fun of here for the Davis Webb stuff (and rightly so) but he was asked in late December 17 before the search officially got underway to name the characteristics of the next NYG head coach.

Dottino rattled off about 5 things: Coordinator, HC experience, age range, a few more I can't remember. It was a 100% accurate description of Pat Shurmur. Not a good way to go about things.
I've lost all hope  
Joey in VA : 11/7/2019 10:57 am : link
For this franchise. I really thought DG was the right guy for the job given his no holds barred approach and his eye for talent when he was here. Add in his desire to add bigger players and it's exactly what I wanted. It appears however that his philosophy clashes with Bettcher who thinks small guys win and he failed miserably on this year's picks. Baker just doesn't have it at this level, and we passed on Rock Ya-Sin and Byron Murphy and traded up to do so. Lawrence is playing out of position, Jones can't stop turning the ball over and our other rookie DBs can't sniff the field. It's a total unmitigated disaster.
Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
cjac : 11/7/2019 10:59 am : link
got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need
RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14668066 cjac said:
Quote:
got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need
Shurmur is afraid to confront his players. He saves his rage for refs and boom mic operators
I think that turning off the music  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/7/2019 11:05 am : link
In practice is just the kind of thing that'll lead this team to the playoffs
He should have delivered this message to himself years ago  
moespree : 11/7/2019 11:05 am : link
He's a 17-41 head coach. I think he's past make or break. He broke long ago.
RE: I think that turning off the music  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14668071 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
In practice is just the kind of thing that'll lead this team to the playoffs
that almost made me spit out my coffee.
RE: Damning article....  
christian : 11/7/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14667945 nzyme said:
Quote:
Read this freaking article. The title doesn't tell the story. Read the quotes from the players especially from Golden Tate.... This should NOT happen under a competent head coach!

Disgusting


This is the product of stitching together a roster of raw youngsters and vets who came to a perennial loser for the money, not the chance for a ring.

Bethea, Tate, Remmers, Thomas, etc. are end of their career guys who got a little extra to be "stabilizers" and on the field coaches.

Tate particular can STFU. The guy who got suspended 4 games pretending to have a baby is calling someone's mistake knuckle-headed?
Coughlin  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/7/2019 11:44 am : link
would be screaming at you red faced in July if you were wearing mismatched socks.

Great timing Shrumur.
Season over  
Nine-Tails : 11/7/2019 11:51 am : link
But now it's make it break, huh. Basically trying to save your job with second half run. I mean it worked for Coughlin a couple times, but Shurmur doesn't have his pedigree
RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
Nine-Tails : 11/7/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14668066 cjac said:
Quote:
got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need


Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.
RE: RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
christian : 11/7/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14668164 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14668066 cjac said:


Quote:


got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need



Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.


If Shurmur grabbed anyone's facemask he'd get his bobble penis head ripped off his neck in return.
RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
mittenedman : 11/7/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14668066 cjac said:
Quote:
got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need


Yup. Get coaches who know what they're doing and aren't afraid to get in somebody's face. Michael Strahan said something years back that stuck with me: the Giants need an asshole. It was Tom Coughlin for a while but now everybody's a bit too country club again. They are still playing music at practice? That shit's gotta go. Play football. Dance and listen to music later.

Watching McAdoo's practice's were cringeworthy due to the club atmosphere - disappointed to hear they're still doing that.
RE: I hope the same goes for the coaching staff  
JohnF : 11/7/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14668060 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Fixed it

"Coaches understand those mistakes are unacceptable and if individuals don’t get it corrected, they probably won’t be coaching anymore,” said one coach.


This 100%. You have a coaching staff because players need to learn how to play, what their assignments are, and to motivate the players to play at the NFL level.

Shurmur should have already called out his staff internally. Everything is on tape, and it's obvious that the same mistakes, missed assignments are being made. Shurmur is responsible for his coaches, he was directly involved in selecting them.

That leads to two things. Either the players have tuned out the assistant coaches (because they can't understand or don't believe in the system), or the players aren't talented enough to run the system. Yes, rookie players make mistakes, but they are supposed to learn from them, and be coached up to play better.

That's not happening. And when that happens, the staff (up to and including the HC) need to be turned over. That's a fact of life in the NFL. As Jerry Glanville used to say, "If you're a pro coach, NFL stands for 'Not for long."
RE: here's what is going to happen  
Dinger : 11/7/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14667976 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
we are going to beat the Jets, Dolphins, maybe the Skins, and then probably squeak out another win somehow to finish 6-10. The narrative from Shurmur is that we "fought" and "improved" down the stretch and went 4-3 in our last 7 games and hey, "if we had started out that way, our season would have been great" and also we "made strides" from last year, winning a total of 1 more game than last season.

Then in 2020 we will start out 1-4 and wonder why the hell he is still the coach.


You know you've been a Giants fan too long if this is how you feel....and this is exactly how I feel. You want to beat those teams but you know beating those teams most likely won't help the Giants in the long run.
'It's Make or Break Time'  
Torrag : 11/7/2019 12:40 pm : link
Shurmur AKA Captain Clueless strikes again.

It was make or break time 3 weeks ago. They'd have to win out to get to 9. This guy is lost.
RE: RE: RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
ron mexico : 11/7/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14668166 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14668164 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14668066 cjac said:


Quote:


got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need



Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.



If Shurmur grabbed anyone's facemask he'd get his bobble penis head ripped off his neck in return.


I dont know man, Shurmur is a big dude. Don't fuck with old man strength
The way Shurmur has been managing...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 12:50 pm : link
and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...
Lets focus on what's important  
twostepgiants : 11/7/2019 12:51 pm : link
Can we score the most points in the division again?
all his chips to the center of the table  
Torrag : 11/7/2019 12:51 pm : link
Please don't compare shurmur to what was a relevant and timely call out from Fassel that contributed to a deep playoff run.
Make or break  
PaulN : 11/7/2019 1:01 pm : link
Time for Shurmur's job. Make or break time for the fucking team has long passed. Jets will destroy us, so I am not worried, this will be one game I don't watch, first game since 1961 I will miss. I can not hope to win a game that could save his job, sorry, but this guy must go, and Gettleman must be put on the hot seat. Shurmur must be fired and at the minimum Gettleman must be told his time is running out, or better yet, clean house, starting over is perfectly okay if they hire the right people.
RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
Nine-Tails : 11/7/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14668326 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...


He hasn't done anything to warrant reassurance from them. But with Mara, he definitely could have said something positive behind closed doors. After "firing" coughlin, we didnt get much interest in our job, I always wondered why that was with the long leash Mara affords.
'we didnt get much interest in our job'  
Torrag : 11/7/2019 1:14 pm : link
Unsubstantiated bullshit. There are 32 NFL HC jobs in the world. This crap narrative that coaches wouldn't come here is just that...crap. Would every coach? Maybe not but then again there are plenty of coaches the Giants wouldn't hire. Thank God.
Nine-Tails...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 1:17 pm : link
It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...
RE: Nine-Tails...  
Giantology : 11/7/2019 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...


Radio silence from "Jints Central" mid-season is nothing new, you can let your conspiracy theories rest.
RE: Nine-Tails...  
Chris684 : 11/7/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...


Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.
RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14668326 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...
I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.
About damn time  
Dave in PA : 11/7/2019 1:53 pm : link
this attitude should have been in place before week 1. How has there not been a sense of urgency from the get go? Lousy coach
RE: RE: Nine-Tails...  
cosmicj : 11/7/2019 1:54 pm : link
In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.
i also read this as meaning that Shurmur is feeling intense pressure. Recall that he lost control of himself in the 4th quarter on Monday night. You’ve got to feel for him on the human level. I’m sure he’s a good person. He actually might be a good HC prospect at the college level.
RE: RE: Nine-Tails...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 2:08 pm : link
In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:


Quote:


It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...



Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.


I was actually wondering about the possibility. I didn't say it was conclusive.

From the recent Eli Saga to the recent OBJ Saga, I don't know how anyone can take anything off the table at this point...
RE: RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14668389 Les in TO said:
Quote:
I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.


In a normal football operation, yes, Shurmur should be desperate.

But there is nothing normal about this organization...
RE: RE: RE: Nine-Tails...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/7/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14668404 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:


Quote:


Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.

i also read this as meaning that Shurmur is feeling intense pressure. Recall that he lost control of himself in the 4th quarter on Monday night. You’ve got to feel for him on the human level. I’m sure he’s a good person. He actually might be a good HC prospect at the college level.

Why do the Giants realize you need the not too big for me ice water veins QB in NYC, but not coach?

I mean fucking joke Mcadoo and Shemur ffs?
Coward  
mdc1 : 11/7/2019 2:25 pm : link
Bad Coach
RE: RE: RE: The way Shurmur has been managing...  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14668424 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14668389 Les in TO said:


Quote:


I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.



In a normal football operation, yes, Shurmur should be desperate.

But there is nothing normal about this organization...
Mara manages reactively to fans. If enough fans boo or don’t show up for the remaining home games he’ll fire the coach. Handley Reeves Fassel and McAdoo were either fired by him or his dad after or during one or two bad seasons because fans were pissed. He green lighted the Manning benching in 2017 and this year because of fan turbulence. He reversed the Manning decision in 2017 because of the reaction. So unless the Giants break off a streak of 6-7 wins, fans will continue to boo/not show up/fly messages on planes, and Mara will boot Shurmur.
Attention to detail  
Reale01 : 11/7/2019 3:24 pm : link
We are sloppy and the lack of discipline is alarming. This should have been addressed after this first game. I created a thread that lists a few of the many specifics. Its very basic pee wee football stuff in many cases.

Shurmur can't change who he is. The players will not respect that and will not respond. Is there a part of him that can demand accountability and precision? We will see.

The biggest problem with the Giants is not our schemes, game management could improve but even that is not the largest problem. I don't even think its players, for the most part we are not getting physically beaten. I think they are good enough players to be a 500 team.

Defense
Maintain proper leverage
Gap integrity and pass rush lanes
Assignment sound
Rally to the ball
Tackle

Offense
Proper position and technique
Assignment sound: Pick up stunts, proper angles
Catch the ball
Do not fumble the ball

This all basic stuff.
Yes, we can use Barkley and Engram better, but it won't matter if we don't have the basics down.

The OL coach and LB coach in particular should be all over their guys as they area playing with all the disciplne of frightened squirrels.
all these comments  
BigBlueCane : 11/7/2019 3:39 pm : link
and not one Jim Fassel reference.
The team sucks, but it's not because they're listening to music  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/7/2019 4:07 pm : link
At practice. Dont take your eye off the ball and look for convenient excuses. The team sucks as a result of bad roster, bad roster management, and mediocre at best coaching.

The 'culture' excuse is tired. Its performance, not 'culture'. Performance from ownership, from the front office, and from the coaching staff.

FMIC was correct  
joeinpa : 11/7/2019 4:19 pm : link
It turned into another bash Shurmur thread, all good at 7-18.

I m not a coach basher, leave that up to the experts. But the certainty with which many speak of his incompetence is making me really pull hard for him.
RE: RE: RE: Remember the Vikings game, when Xavier Rhodes  
Beezer : 11/7/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14668166 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14668164 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:


In comment 14668066 cjac said:


Quote:


got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need



Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.



If Shurmur grabbed anyone's facemask he'd get his bobble penis head ripped off his neck in return.


bahahahahaha ... this thread ... LOL
RE: Shurmur knows it's getting to moral victory season  
djm : 11/7/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14667914 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Right. Because the giants haven’t fired 2 HCs over the last 5 seasons or anything...

RE: all these comments  
jcn56 : 11/7/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14668509 BigBlueCane said:
Quote:
and not one Jim Fassel reference.


Shurmur's got no chips to push.

Fassel gets a bad rap around here, he got them to a Super Bowl. Shurmur's still waiting on that first playoff appearance.
I’m not singling anyone out  
djm : 11/7/2019 4:41 pm : link
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!
RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/7/2019 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14668580 djm said:
Quote:
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!

Watch out everybody, djm has his pom poms waving and he's ready to use them as weapons!
RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
HomerJones45 : 11/7/2019 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14668580 djm said:
Quote:
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!
Well which way do you want it: a) he hasn't been doing it until now or b) he's been doing it and no one has paid any attention to him. Neither paints a flattering portrait.
RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14668580 djm said:
Quote:
And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!


He doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt from anyone at this point. All he's proven is that he's a bad HC.

Truly, I bet Pat Shurmur is a really nice dude - I'd have no problem grabbing a beer with the guy. He's just sucks at coaching this football team and his career record speaks for itself at this point.
RE: RE: all these comments  
HomerJones45 : 11/7/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14668577 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14668509 BigBlueCane said:


Quote:


and not one Jim Fassel reference.



Shurmur's got no chips to push.

Fassel gets a bad rap around here, he got them to a Super Bowl. Shurmur's still waiting on that first playoff appearance.
Playoff appearance??! Shurmur is still waiting for his magical 6 win season.
RE: RE: I’m not singling anyone out  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/7/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14668598 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14668580 djm said:


Quote:


And this is not directed at terps who I just responded to, but some of you sound really fucking stupid despite trying to come off a smart ass.

Do some of you truly believe that shurmur hasn’t been conveying urgency to the team all season long? The guy may be a mess here but this article or quote isn’t telling us anything relevant. “It took this long” ——cmon already!



He doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt from anyone at this point. All he's proven is that he's a bad HC.

Truly, I bet Pat Shurmur is a really nice dude - I'd have no problem grabbing a beer with the guy. He's just sucks at coaching this football team and his career record speaks for itself at this point.

As long as he has a Giants logo on his shirt, Shurmur is bulletproof for djm and his allergic reaction to critical thought toward the Giants.
RE: RE: Shurmur knows it's getting to moral victory season  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14668573 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14667914 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.



Right. Because the giants haven’t fired 2 HCs over the last 5 seasons or anything...


We're getting to the part of the year where you start telling us how the progress we make now will carry over into 2020. It's the BBI post Halloween tradition - talking current chicken shit into future chicken salad.
I actually think progress can carry over, but people pointing to last  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 6:07 pm : link
years "progress" didn't want to listen at all why the Giants won some of those games, or were competitive.

Bears - Chase Daniels nuff said
Redskins - in utter turmoil at the QB position and OLine starting two weeks before we played them - their season fell apart
Titans - we got dominated, but it was rainy wah
Colts - they had a helluva run to end the season and they came into the Giants game thinking they were getting a break, doesnt work that way in NFL, and handled us in the second half
Cowboys - literally nothing to play for and benched/limited star players on top of that

There were way too many people with their head in the sand about why this team "performed" down the stretch.

Unlike many of you I think we got some nice pieces in place, but this coaching staff is a joke.
RE: I actually think progress can carry over, but people pointing to last  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:12 pm : link
In comment 14668634 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
years "progress" didn't want to listen at all why the Giants won some of those games, or were competitive.

Bears - Chase Daniels nuff said
Redskins - in utter turmoil at the QB position and OLine starting two weeks before we played them - their season fell apart
Titans - we got dominated, but it was rainy wah
Colts - they had a helluva run to end the season and they came into the Giants game thinking they were getting a break, doesnt work that way in NFL, and handled us in the second half
Cowboys - literally nothing to play for and benched/limited star players on top of that

There were way too many people with their head in the sand about why this team "performed" down the stretch.

Unlike many of you I think we got some nice pieces in place, but this coaching staff is a joke.


It's not just the coaching staff. The front office is an equally bad joke.

I know not everyone loves Mike Lombardi, but his podcast today contained this nugget:

- Mara wants to hire Belichick and implement the Patriot program, but he can't hire Belichick
- He wanted McDaniels, but Gettleman blew that up in the interview because he wanted total control on personnel

Shurmur is not the fundamental problem.
I think we've reached the point where the old George Young  
jcn56 : 11/7/2019 6:17 pm : link
hierarchy is outdated. With FA and roster turnover being what it is, there's probably no need for a GM and a HC anymore.

Get a HC who can operate as a GM, and who will have complete program oversight and accountability. Have them bring in scouts that they can work with to find players that fit the schemes they're looking to employ, and to hire coordinators and position coaches that all align themselves accordingly.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug, flush the whole lot, start from scratch. No sense in making tweaks here or there, you just end up with some Frankenstein combination of used parts that don't fit together well.
I'm not sure if hiring McDaniels is wise or not  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/7/2019 6:18 pm : link
But inaction because Dave Gettleman wanted full personnel control is pretty crazy. That sort of clout is usually reserved for GMs with significant resume.
Woah, no music  
Jimmy Googs : 11/7/2019 6:22 pm : link
this is getting serious...
RE: I think we've reached the point where the old George Young  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14668641 jcn56 said:
Quote:
hierarchy is outdated. With FA and roster turnover being what it is, there's probably no need for a GM and a HC anymore.

Get a HC who can operate as a GM, and who will have complete program oversight and accountability. Have them bring in scouts that they can work with to find players that fit the schemes they're looking to employ, and to hire coordinators and position coaches that all align themselves accordingly.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug, flush the whole lot, start from scratch. No sense in making tweaks here or there, you just end up with some Frankenstein combination of used parts that don't fit together well.


God bless you for seeing the light on this. This indeed the way to go. Have all the coordinators, scouts, administrators (e.g. Capologist), etc report directly up the HC/GM. Let that dual position select the exact players he wants to fit his scheme and game-planning for Sundays.

Enough of this extra layer of football fat - the GM...
RE: I think we've reached the point where the old George Young  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14668641 jcn56 said:
Quote:
hierarchy is outdated. With FA and roster turnover being what it is, there's probably no need for a GM and a HC anymore.

Get a HC who can operate as a GM, and who will have complete program oversight and accountability. Have them bring in scouts that they can work with to find players that fit the schemes they're looking to employ, and to hire coordinators and position coaches that all align themselves accordingly.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug, flush the whole lot, start from scratch. No sense in making tweaks here or there, you just end up with some Frankenstein combination of used parts that don't fit together well.


100%
So the Owner wanted McDaniels but the GM overruled the owner?  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 6:49 pm : link
I'm not exactly buying that.
I agree about our too many cooks in the kitchen model thougb  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 6:51 pm : link
It is a way different Era and there is a ton more information at a HC's disposal to help him make GM decisions. Hire a HC who is a program builder and go from there. I think Matt Rhule would be an excellent candidate to do this.
RE: So the Owner wanted McDaniels but the GM overruled the owner?  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:58 pm : link
In comment 14668661 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
I'm not exactly buying that.


No; McDaniels didn't want to work with Gettleman and turned down the job.
The heat is on as it should be !  
Bluesbreaker : 11/7/2019 6:58 pm : link
His offense had a number of chances to score and either
turned the ball over and settled for FG's . Dallas
used the same defense around the goal line and PS had
no answer for it . Even on defense Bethea has lost three
steps at some point you make a change same on offense
Remmers and Halpio have been dreadful . We can see it
what is he not seeing on the coaches tape .
Cripes you have a FB sitting on the bench and your
Giving Engram carries . Put Barkley in on 1st down
Everybody knows he is gonna run SB Shurmur never fools
anyone ever !
RE: RE: So the Owner wanted McDaniels but the GM overruled the owner?  
GiantTuff1 : 11/7/2019 9:38 pm : link
In comment 14668666 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14668661 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


I'm not exactly buying that.



No; McDaniels didn't want to work with Gettleman and turned down the job.


That is fucking horrid.

McDaniels was the guy I was pounding the pavement for last year. If you want the Patriots program and can’t get BB, you get the guy who is most likely to be the next young BB, who took his learning lumps early, and understands that program. Is innovative, creative, adaptive.

I was advocating for Riddick at GM too bc those two were rumored to WANT to work together, as a package deal.

How can you have high level of respect for a potential coach, and then saddle them with a GM that might not perfectly align with their vision? It’s stupidity at its highest level, and at best a gross catering to egos and keeping the good old boys happy. .

Disgusted with this franchise.

Have some f’n vision. Grow some fucking balls.
Go Terps...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 9:43 pm : link
"Mara wants to hire Belichick and implement the Patriot program, but he can't hire Belichick"

Is that like present tense? If so, Mara needs to move heaven & earth to get BB. I don't care what it takes.
RE: FMIC was correct  
Mr. Bungle : 11/7/2019 11:22 pm : link
In comment 14668552 joeinpa said:
Quote:
It turned into another bash Shurmur thread, all good at 7-18.

I m not a coach basher, leave that up to the experts. But the certainty with which many speak of his incompetence is making me really pull hard for him.

So if he were 14-36 early in his fourth season, you'd really, REALLY pull hard for him! He'd really deserve it!
I’d be fine with giving McDaniels full control..  
Sean : 11/7/2019 11:37 pm : link
Hire him first & let him have a say in the GM. Give him massive security to allow him to build a program (similar to Shanahan in SF).
People still haven't learned to avoid Belichick assistants yet?  
Greg from LI : 11/7/2019 11:38 pm : link
The hell with Josh McDaniels.
RE: Go Terps...  
Go Terps : 11/8/2019 1:10 am : link
In comment 14668784 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
"Mara wants to hire Belichick and implement the Patriot program, but he can't hire Belichick"

Is that like present tense? If so, Mara needs to move heaven & earth to get BB. I don't care what it takes.


This is the impression I got from listening to Lombardi. Mara wants Belichick but Belichick isn't available.
RE: People still haven't learned to avoid Belichick assistants yet?  
Sean : 11/8/2019 6:50 am : link
In comment 14668855 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The hell with Josh McDaniels.


So far I know you don’t like Rhule or McDaniels - any name you want? Of course, we all want Belichick, but I have to assume that isn’t an option.
Ah this  
mittenedman : 11/8/2019 8:45 am : link
“Let’s just copy the Patriots” shit again that gets past off as some kind of genius insight.

Sure Josh freaking McDaniels without BB or Ernie Adams is going to come here and do what Belichick did. Unreal.

There is one guy on the planet who can do that. The Pats without Lil Bill are the worst team in football. Trying to copy the Pats without BB is a fool’s errand and why NO ONE else in the NFL has been able to do so.
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