Pat Shurmur To Players: It's Make or Break Time

Maybe instead of having a Countdown Clock to the Super Bowl the Giants should have a Countdown Clock to the expiration date on their latest HC.

The countdown timer was once again set for two years and the damn thing won't stop ticking.

In comment 14667950 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14667930 Mr. Bungle said: Quote: would have been doing this in August. Ding ding. The Giants could win out and I wouldn't care. You can't do anything if you're starting 2-7 or 1-8.

Yes in August....
of 2018!!!

As a manager and leader of people, you set your expectations on DAY 1. You demand that folks meet those expectations, and you make sure that there are consequences for those who don't, right from the start. You also reward those who do a good job meeting or exceeding those expectations. And yes you try to make it fun, but professional, in that EVERYBODY KNOWS what's expected and know the consequences.

If you are doing this 1 1/2 years in, you are 1 1/2 years too late!

In comment 14668008 arcarsenal said:

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And yeah - I agree with you guys. 9 games into the year isn't where this type of urgency should just start to surface. This is a message that needed to be delivered in August. You should coach with urgency from Day 1. It's a 16 game season. You can't just 'ease in' and then tell the guys they're now more accountable for their play in November. He just seems like he's constantly behind the ball.

Amen. One pillar of any good culture is accountability. It should have been instilled in the first practice in the offseason. There is no accountability. Players are making business decisions missing assignments and getting pushed around (including our free agents who didn’t look this bad on their former teams). Shurmur is always a day late and a dollar short. This is a soft mistake heavy team.

In comment 14668031 .McL. said:

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Yes in August.... of 2018!!! If you are doing this 1 1/2 years in, you are 1 1/2 years too late!

Parcells admitted that he screwed this up his first year.
After that how long do you think he waited before taking this approach?
How about Coughlin?
Bellichick?
Gibbs?
Walsh?
Lombardi?

Any every HoF coach you can name?

He should have known better this time around.

In comment 14668008 arcarsenal said:

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And yeah - I agree with you guys. 9 games into the year isn't where this type of urgency should just start to surface. This is a message that needed to be delivered in August. You should coach with urgency from Day 1. It's a 16 game season. You can't just 'ease in' and then tell the guys they're now more accountable for their play in November. He just seems like he's constantly behind the ball.

Losers gonna lose. He's just a terrible HC. He and Gettleman need to GTFOH.

In comment 14667993 richinpa said:

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If you manage folks now in your real life, you know getting to this point is really POOR management . Its desperation Players who have respect for their coach and bring it day to day with top of their game don't need this type of desperation speech Its 9 games too late and shows me that he isn't the type of coach that not only is good for young guys but also a head coach they smell desperation. And this messaging is piss poor

This. Tolerance for mistakes, week after week. A rookie who has started at CB for over half the season admitting he doesn't fully know the playbook. No accountability, no fear of letting your teammates down, no fear of consequences. And as others have mentioned, being a rigid system coach instead of a Belichick-like flexibility and ability to change your approach as necessary to put your team in the best position to win each week. Shurmur has proven himself to be a poor leader of men.

would have been perfect for this group. Too many vets on those later Coughlin years for his approach to work out (in addition to the fast pace of the game passing him by), but I can see a guy like him being great for the young guys.

I don't want another tweener. I either want a seasoned vet coach with some NFL success or pluck the top young guy ready to burst on the scene.

I don,t believe that you can just turn it on at this stage of the game. Coughlin set the tone with his first meeting. “On time is late, 5 min early is on time”. One little rule sent a huge message.

In comment 14667892 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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know what kind of leader Shurmur is or if he's a long-term solution, but with a team full of young guys, it is important to send the message that this shit isn't acceptable. They need to learn that early on. I'm sure this will get turned into another bash Shurmur thread, but this is a teaching moment for young players.

His 25th game as a head coach for this team is not “early on”.

“I’m trying to put this very delicately because there is no one to blame,” the wide receiver added. “Not one single person. It’s a collective effort. But just play disciplined football.”

Who has the most impact on a collective effort to play disciplined football? This is a direct indictment of our coaching staff, not our GM.

Fixed it

"Coaches understand those mistakes are unacceptable and if individuals don’t get it corrected, they probably won’t be coaching anymore,” said one coach.

I know Dottino gets gets made fun of here for the Davis Webb stuff (and rightly so) but he was asked in late December 17 before the search officially got underway to name the characteristics of the next NYG head coach.

Dottino rattled off about 5 things: Coordinator, HC experience, age range, a few more I can't remember. It was a 100% accurate description of Pat Shurmur. Not a good way to go about things.

For this franchise. I really thought DG was the right guy for the job given his no holds barred approach and his eye for talent when he was here. Add in his desire to add bigger players and it's exactly what I wanted. It appears however that his philosophy clashes with Bettcher who thinks small guys win and he failed miserably on this year's picks. Baker just doesn't have it at this level, and we passed on Rock Ya-Sin and Byron Murphy and traded up to do so. Lawrence is playing out of position, Jones can't stop turning the ball over and our other rookie DBs can't sniff the field. It's a total unmitigated disaster.

got beat deep by Slayton on that TD

and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game.

Thats the kind of shit we need

In comment 14668066 cjac said:

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got beat deep by Slayton on that TD and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game. Thats the kind of shit we need

Shurmur is afraid to confront his players. He saves his rage for refs and boom mic operators

In practice is just the kind of thing that'll lead this team to the playoffs

He's a 17-41 head coach. I think he's past make or break. He broke long ago.

In comment 14668071 GiantsRage2007 said:

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In practice is just the kind of thing that'll lead this team to the playoffs

that almost made me spit out my coffee.

In comment 14667945 nzyme said:

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Read this freaking article. The title doesn't tell the story. Read the quotes from the players especially from Golden Tate.... This should NOT happen under a competent head coach! Disgusting

This is the product of stitching together a roster of raw youngsters and vets who came to a perennial loser for the money, not the chance for a ring.

Bethea, Tate, Remmers, Thomas, etc. are end of their career guys who got a little extra to be "stabilizers" and on the field coaches.

Tate particular can STFU. The guy who got suspended 4 games pretending to have a baby is calling someone's mistake knuckle-headed?

would be screaming at you red faced in July if you were wearing mismatched socks.

Great timing Shrumur.

But now it's make it break, huh. Basically trying to save your job with second half run. I mean it worked for Coughlin a couple times, but Shurmur doesn't have his pedigree

In comment 14668066 cjac said:

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got beat deep by Slayton on that TD and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game. Thats the kind of shit we need

Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.

In comment 14668164 Nine-Tails said:

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In comment 14668066 cjac said: Quote: got beat deep by Slayton on that TD and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game. Thats the kind of shit we need Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world.

If Shurmur grabbed anyone's facemask he'd get his bobble penis head ripped off his neck in return.

In comment 14668066 cjac said:

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got beat deep by Slayton on that TD and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game. Thats the kind of shit we need

Yup. Get coaches who know what they're doing and aren't afraid to get in somebody's face. Michael Strahan said something years back that stuck with me: the Giants need an asshole. It was Tom Coughlin for a while but now everybody's a bit too country club again. They are still playing music at practice? That shit's gotta go. Play football. Dance and listen to music later.

Watching McAdoo's practice's were cringeworthy due to the club atmosphere - disappointed to hear they're still doing that.

In comment 14668060 PatersonPlank said:

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Fixed it "Coaches understand those mistakes are unacceptable and if individuals don’t get it corrected, they probably won’t be coaching anymore,” said one coach.

This 100%. You have a coaching staff because players need to learn how to play, what their assignments are, and to motivate the players to play at the NFL level.

Shurmur should have already called out his staff internally. Everything is on tape, and it's obvious that the same mistakes, missed assignments are being made. Shurmur is responsible for his coaches, he was directly involved in selecting them.

That leads to two things. Either the players have tuned out the assistant coaches (because they can't understand or don't believe in the system), or the players aren't talented enough to run the system. Yes, rookie players make mistakes, but they are supposed to learn from them, and be coached up to play better.

That's not happening. And when that happens, the staff (up to and including the HC) need to be turned over. That's a fact of life in the NFL. As Jerry Glanville used to say, "If you're a pro coach, NFL stands for 'Not for long."

In comment 14667976 ryanmkeane said:

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we are going to beat the Jets, Dolphins, maybe the Skins, and then probably squeak out another win somehow to finish 6-10. The narrative from Shurmur is that we "fought" and "improved" down the stretch and went 4-3 in our last 7 games and hey, "if we had started out that way, our season would have been great" and also we "made strides" from last year, winning a total of 1 more game than last season. Then in 2020 we will start out 1-4 and wonder why the hell he is still the coach.

You know you've been a Giants fan too long if this is how you feel....and this is exactly how I feel. You want to beat those teams but you know beating those teams most likely won't help the Giants in the long run.

Shurmur AKA Captain Clueless strikes again.

It was make or break time 3 weeks ago. They'd have to win out to get to 9. This guy is lost.

In comment 14668166 christian said:

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In comment 14668164 Nine-Tails said: Quote: In comment 14668066 cjac said: Quote: got beat deep by Slayton on that TD and Zimmer grabbed his facemask and yelled at him even though the Vikings were still winning that game. Thats the kind of shit we need Shurmur be like it's all right we can fix it. Now lift your head son, all is right in the world. If Shurmur grabbed anyone's facemask he'd get his bobble penis head ripped off his neck in return.

I dont know man, Shurmur is a big dude. Don't fuck with old man strength

and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point.

I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine.

The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players.

Shurmur is such a nightmare...

What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?"

Such a loser...

Can we score the most points in the division again?

Please don't compare shurmur to what was a relevant and timely call out from Fassel that contributed to a deep playoff run.

Time for Shurmur's job. Make or break time for the fucking team has long passed. Jets will destroy us, so I am not worried, this will be one game I don't watch, first game since 1961 I will miss. I can not hope to win a game that could save his job, sorry, but this guy must go, and Gettleman must be put on the hot seat. Shurmur must be fired and at the minimum Gettleman must be told his time is running out, or better yet, clean house, starting over is perfectly okay if they hire the right people.

In comment 14668326 bw in dc said:

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and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point. I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine. The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players. Shurmur is such a nightmare... What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?" Such a loser...

He hasn't done anything to warrant reassurance from them. But with Mara, he definitely could have said something positive behind closed doors. After "firing" coughlin, we didnt get much interest in our job, I always wondered why that was with the long leash Mara affords.

Unsubstantiated bullshit. There are 32 NFL HC jobs in the world. This crap narrative that coaches wouldn't come here is just that...crap. Would every coach? Maybe not but then again there are plenty of coaches the Giants wouldn't hire. Thank God.

It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low...

So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...

In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:

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It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low... So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...

Radio silence from "Jints Central" mid-season is nothing new, you can let your conspiracy theories rest.

In comment 14668369 bw in dc said:

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It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low... So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore...

Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence.

This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.

In comment 14668326 bw in dc said:

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and coaching this team he really has limited credibility at this point. I wonder if he got some private reassurance this week from Mara and DG that he is safe for next year, so now he's pulling this tough guy routine. The product we have is a reflection of DG's talent assessment and Shumur's player development and game planning. So they are much more to blame for what we are watching than the players. Shurmur is such a nightmare... What's next? He pushing "all his chips to the center of the table?" Such a loser...

I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.

this attitude should have been in place before week 1. How has there not been a sense of urgency from the get go? Lousy coach

In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:

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Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence. This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.

i also read this as meaning that Shurmur is feeling intense pressure. Recall that he lost control of himself in the 4th quarter on Monday night. You’ve got to feel for him on the human level. I’m sure he’s a good person. He actually might be a good HC prospect at the college level.

In comment 14668384 Chris684 said:

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In comment 14668369 bw in dc said: Quote: It’s been awfully quiet at Jints Central lately. Nothing from Mara. Nothing from Tisch. Nothing from Gettleman. They are laying real low... So I wouldn’t put anything past them when it comes to Shurmur. They are trapped over there in their “Giants Way” bubble and simply can’t be trusted anymore... Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence. This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument.

I was actually wondering about the possibility. I didn't say it was conclusive.

From the recent Eli Saga to the recent OBJ Saga, I don't know how anyone can take anything off the table at this point...

In comment 14668389 Les in TO said:

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I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside.

In a normal football operation, yes, Shurmur should be desperate.

But there is nothing normal about this organization...

In comment 14668404 cosmicj said:

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In comment 14668384 Chris684 said: Quote: Yea I don't know how you arrive at the conclusion that Shurmur has gotten a vote of confidence. This type of report seems to support the opposite of that argument. i also read this as meaning that Shurmur is feeling intense pressure. Recall that he lost control of himself in the 4th quarter on Monday night. You’ve got to feel for him on the human level. I’m sure he’s a good person. He actually might be a good HC prospect at the college level.

Why do the Giants realize you need the not too big for me ice water veins QB in NYC, but not coach?

I mean fucking joke Mcadoo and Shemur ffs?

Bad Coach

In comment 14668424 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14668389 Les in TO said: Quote: I think it’s more that he is desperate. Mara typically doesn’t make rash decisions in season , Geno-gate aside. In a normal football operation, yes, Shurmur should be desperate. But there is nothing normal about this organization...

Mara manages reactively to fans. If enough fans boo or don’t show up for the remaining home games he’ll fire the coach. Handley Reeves Fassel and McAdoo were either fired by him or his dad after or during one or two bad seasons because fans were pissed. He green lighted the Manning benching in 2017 and this year because of fan turbulence. He reversed the Manning decision in 2017 because of the reaction. So unless the Giants break off a streak of 6-7 wins, fans will continue to boo/not show up/fly messages on planes, and Mara will boot Shurmur.

We are sloppy and the lack of discipline is alarming. This should have been addressed after this first game. I created a thread that lists a few of the many specifics. Its very basic pee wee football stuff in many cases.

Shurmur can't change who he is. The players will not respect that and will not respond. Is there a part of him that can demand accountability and precision? We will see.

The biggest problem with the Giants is not our schemes, game management could improve but even that is not the largest problem. I don't even think its players, for the most part we are not getting physically beaten. I think they are good enough players to be a 500 team.

Defense
Maintain proper leverage
Gap integrity and pass rush lanes
Assignment sound
Rally to the ball
Tackle

Offense
Proper position and technique
Assignment sound: Pick up stunts, proper angles
Catch the ball
Do not fumble the ball

This all basic stuff.
Yes, we can use Barkley and Engram better, but it won't matter if we don't have the basics down.

The OL coach and LB coach in particular should be all over their guys as they area playing with all the disciplne of frightened squirrels.

and not one Jim Fassel reference.

At practice. Dont take your eye off the ball and look for convenient excuses. The team sucks as a result of bad roster, bad roster management, and mediocre at best coaching.

The 'culture' excuse is tired. Its performance, not 'culture'. Performance from ownership, from the front office, and from the coaching staff.

It turned into another bash Shurmur thread, all good at 7-18.

I m not a coach basher, leave that up to the experts. But the certainty with which many speak of his incompetence is making me really pull hard for him.