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What era was more painful 91-99 or 2012-2019?

Essex : 11/7/2019 11:29 am
I am too young for the debacle of the 70s but these are clearly the two worst eras in Giant football of my lifetime.

91-99 had bad offenses, bad coaching and after 93 no QB. The great teams of the 80s were aging out. Our legendary coach was replaced by that guy. Misfortune let BB get away. The defenses were generally ok if I remember, but it was brutal to watch the Kent Graham, Dave Brown, and Danny Kannell era. On the positive, we drafted Strahan during this time and were building toward 2000 when we got a QB who could carry the offense in Collins to mesh with a decent defense. We also made the playoffs twice in 93 and 97 (great defensive team--terrible on offense).

vs.

This era. Bad on both sides of the ball. Didn't score 30 points for that whole streak until last year. Two terrible coaches in McAdoo and Shurmur. Ruining Eli's last good years. Only made the playoffs once and besides 2012 and 2016 we really never competed for the playoffs?

If I had to go with one over the other I think I say this era has been more painful. Both were hard to watch though.
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This Era is Worse, by Far  
Lambuth_Special : 11/7/2019 12:11 pm : link
Obviously you had the last hurrah 93' team which was nice, but starting around 1995, you could see the accumulation of defensive talent that would form the foundation of NFC East winning team in 97' and the superbowl team of 00.'

Say what you want about George Young, but he also accumulated solid offensive talent in the 90s as well. Toomer, Barber, and Hilliard were some great skill pieces that were critical for the 2000 and 2002 playoff teams. Obviously, Barber and Toomer continued to produce into the Coughlin era as well.

The main issue with those 90s teams were - of course - the quarterbacks. If you swapped out Brown or Kanell for someone even average - a Brad Johnson or Rich Gannon type - I bet you that 97' team pushes the Packers for a Superbowl birth, and the 94' and 98' teams would've made the playoffs as well. We saw how well that collective group of talent did once Collins was a full-time starter in 2000.
It isn't worse than 1979.  
x meadowlander : 11/7/2019 12:17 pm : link
They couldn't run, they couldn't pass, defense would hold for a half and then gassed from all the 3-and-outs, would inevitably fall apart.

The Giant brand was a joke, a laughing stock. In 1979, half the stadium didn't remember YA Tittle.

Most of us still remember 2011.

It's bad, but we ain't at 1979 misery, not yet.
Even the 95' and 96' Teams  
Lambuth_Special : 11/7/2019 12:19 pm : link
I enjoyed better than this current run.

The 1995 team had a fun secondary. Phillippi Sparks that season was better than anyone on this current Giants D. Vencie Glen was a ball hawk, and Tito Wooten was a fun wildcard player.

At one point that season, the Giants traveled to play the defending champion Niners. Although the Niners won the game 20-6, the Giants secondary really punished the their receiving core, delivering the type of hits that would be illegal today. I believe that afterward, Jerry Rice said it was the most physical game he had every played in.

Then the 1996 team was an offensive tire fire, but you could really the defensive unit with Strahan, Armstead, Sparks, Sehorn, and Hammer shine, culminating with an upset victory of the Cowboys at the Meadowlands toward the end of the season.

Now is worse  
phil in arizona : 11/7/2019 12:20 pm : link
At least we played pretty competent defense through the 90s. Nolan and Foxy were solid.
This by far..  
Sean : 11/7/2019 12:20 pm : link
We arenít even making it to Halloween regularly. In the 90ís those teams were competing & foundational pieces were in place for the next era of winning for this franchise.
In that 90s era  
cjac : 11/7/2019 12:20 pm : link
we were at least capable of pulling off an upset here and there (we beat the undefeated Broncos late in the year)

This team cant even beat bad teams, never mind beat a better one
A team that can't play any defense at all is by  
BigBlueBuff : 11/7/2019 12:24 pm : link
far worse than a team with no offense. It's even worse in an era where defenses struggle because of the rules. This team is just terrible and is looking yet another top 10 pick.
Sean. Halloween?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 12:25 pm : link
Most of our seasons are over by Columbus Day.
turning 45 in a few weeks..  
Drewcon40 : 11/7/2019 12:27 pm : link
...this has been brutal. The 90s had some fun teams. The 93 and 97 seasons where fun. I actually remember the 99 season fondly when Collins took over and gave us hope. (That was the last season with the 80s-90s uniforms).
The other thing about the 90s...  
phil in arizona : 11/7/2019 12:32 pm : link
We had 3 or 4 coordinators that went on to become head coaches. Foxy and Payton were really successful.

A lot of our current staff might be on their last NFL job, period. Lol.
I'm going to go with the 90's era.  
Section331 : 11/7/2019 12:36 pm : link
Those late-80's teams were dominant, and I think they left some SB wins on the table. The 2007 and 2011 teams were so much fun, but much more flawed, especially the '11 team. The worst-ranked rushing attack in the league and a D near the bottom of the pack (27th IIRC?). It was a great run, but not a very good team (thank you Eli!).
RE: This era is more like the 1970's, hopeless  
Ivan15 : 11/7/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14668121 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Although it does feel like the late 1970's, because we drafted Simms in 1979, then of course Taylor in 1981. So if you look at the Jones pick as 1979, we still have a year or two to go before we get better


That is an interesting thought, but consider 3 things. The talent in 1979 was better on defense. Especially the LBs. And if nothing else, the offensive talent was at least healthier. But most important, what are the chances of drafting another LT at any position in 2020 or 2021.
2012-2019  
jpetuch : 11/7/2019 12:40 pm : link
Sadly the current ownership is even more clueless than that time worrying more about the abundant $$$ than product.The GMs are worse which is not saying much plus the coaching has gone way downhill as with the majority of rostered players.
2012 -2019  
Torrag : 11/7/2019 12:42 pm : link
because for much of that stretch we had a QB to win with. The FO couldn't put a team together to win with after 'the Rug' stepped down. That wasn't the case in the 90's.
Outside of '73 to '78  
.McL. : 11/7/2019 12:47 pm : link
This has been the most dreadful era of Giants football in my life.

This is far worse than the 90s. The 90s teams were up and down, but mostly just mediocre. Mediocre would be a huge improvement for this team and this era.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 12:48 pm : link
Those 90's teams were the teams I grew up watching.

I was too young for the first SB team, but I do remember the '90 team and by the early/mid 90's, I was watching every single snap of every NYG game and reading about them daily in the sports section before school.

That era didn't feel 'painful' to me, because I was really just learning the game and the idiosyncrasies early on - and while I watched, rooted for the Giants, and remember beating Buffalo in XXV - it's not like I had a long history of glory days to look back on.

I just viewed the team with an entirely different lens as a younger kid. I was always just eager for the next game, the next bit of info I could digest.. something about watching without knowing every little detail of what goes on behind the scenes, or in players lives, or what have you... I don't know, there was just more of a mystery aspect back then that allowed me to have more hope and excitement (misguided or not)

It's different now. I'm 35 years old and I understand the magnitude of the Giants' dysfunction and the mess we're in and I already know it's not going to just turn itself around magically - and I know there's no longer any hope for this season and that the Giants are turning into a Groundhog Day football team that sees seasons just evaporate before Halloween year in and year out.

I'm sure the guys who endured the 70's would tell me this is nothing and to sack up. But, the more you learn and understand - the more depressing these rough patches become. This is way harder for me than the 90's were. I just don't get excited about the Giants these days. Outside of the first couple of weeks, I quickly become apathetic and really just demoralized. It fucking sucks. I still watch every game, I'm obviously still here discussing the team on a daily basis. But, this is brutal. This is definitely more frustrating for me, personally.
RE: I'm going to go with the 90's era.  
x meadowlander : 11/7/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14668289 Section331 said:
Quote:
Those late-80's teams were dominant, and I think they left some SB wins on the table. The 2007 and 2011 teams were so much fun, but much more flawed, especially the '11 team. The worst-ranked rushing attack in the league and a D near the bottom of the pack (27th IIRC?). It was a great run, but not a very good team (thank you Eli!).
87 was stolen by strike, 88 was fucked up (10-6 miss playoffs) - 89 was the worst - Parcells said THAT was the team he believed would take home a Lombardi.

If Bill stayed, they'd have been in competition in 91 and 92 as well, I believe.
RE: Outside of '73 to '78  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14668321 .McL. said:
Quote:
This has been the most dreadful era of Giants football in my life.

This is far worse than the 90s. The 90s teams were up and down, but mostly just mediocre. Mediocre would be a huge improvement for this team and this era.


I'm too young to remember the '70s and back. But with family and all I have read, that was the Dark Ages. And most tell me this latest period isn't quite there yet.

The 90s were torture but, as mentioned, those teams were still pretty rugged defensively. Young lost his fastball in the draft and was a disaster adjusting to the cap era. The absolute worst as trying to manage the nuances. And he just couldn't solve the QB riddle or get enough of the right pieces on offense to even sniff competency on that side of the ball...
.  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 12:59 pm : link
Outside of the Handley years that started the decade, the '95 Reeves team was really the only one I remember seeming like a really BAD football team.

It never seemed like NYG were flat out incompetent in most of the other years. They were just sort of mediocre. They almost always played decent/good defense.

The types of historically bad defenses we've seen in this current era seem far, far worse than anything I can recall from the 90's.
RE: .  
family progtitioner : 11/7/2019 1:05 pm : link
In comment 14668343 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Outside of the Handley years that started the decade, the '95 Reeves team was really the only one I remember seeming like a really BAD football team.

It never seemed like NYG were flat out incompetent in most of the other years. They were just sort of mediocre. They almost always played decent/good defense.

The types of historically bad defenses we've seen in this current era seem far, far worse than anything I can recall from the 90's.


Agree. They may have been irrelevant in the 90s but not the laughingstock they are now. People I meet who find out I'm a Giants fan just apologize for asking. I never thought I'd see 3 seasons in a row of this kind of losing football. It's scary to think how far away from even average they are.
The 1970's is still #1 worst for me - just look at the records above  
PatersonPlank : 11/7/2019 1:10 pm : link
Rumour has it the defense used to run off the field, and tell the offense to "hold em". Thats how bad the offense was.

The last few years I'd put at #2, worse than the 1990's
RE: RE: I'm going to go with the 90's era.  
bw in dc : 11/7/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14668328 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14668289 Section331 said:


Quote:


Those late-80's teams were dominant, and I think they left some SB wins on the table. The 2007 and 2011 teams were so much fun, but much more flawed, especially the '11 team. The worst-ranked rushing attack in the league and a D near the bottom of the pack (27th IIRC?). It was a great run, but not a very good team (thank you Eli!).

87 was stolen by strike, 88 was fucked up (10-6 miss playoffs) - 89 was the worst - Parcells said THAT was the team he believed would take home a Lombardi.

If Bill stayed, they'd have been in competition in 91 and 92 as well, I believe.


Agreed, Ď87 was a throw away. And that Ď89 team was primed for a run but just couldnít solve the Rams. Remember, we got smoked by them earlier in the year in LA. So they were very confident for the rematch.

One of the worst losses ever...and the next day that piss ant Russo opened his show with the Disney ďFlipperĒ song...
Now has been worse.  
St. Jimmy : 11/7/2019 1:19 pm : link
The Eagles won the Superbowl.
RE: Now has been worse.  
Route 9 : 11/7/2019 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14668372 St. Jimmy said:
Quote:
The Eagles won the Superbowl.


Yup. A pig-ugly reality people on BBI outside of the South Jersey/Philly region will never understand.
Yale bowl years  
GiantEgo : 11/7/2019 1:34 pm : link
That may have been the bottom...1-11 in those games. Actually, the Fran Tarkenton years 67-72 while not making the playoffs they weren't a laughing stock either. There was some good football then and respectability.
Definitely current era.  
Britt in VA : 11/7/2019 1:45 pm : link
91-99 was high school through college for me, so I had PLENTY to distract me and dull the pain.
I will say it again...the Giants are the worst  
Thatís Gold, Jerry : 11/7/2019 1:46 pm : link
NFC East team since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970. Sadly, I've been around and am still around for all these eras. It has been tough to remain a Giants' fan but, fortunately, I am built that way. All the teams I cheer for have been the same teams since I was 7.

But the ineptitude of the Giants makes it very frustrating. 64-81, 91-99 and now...they were all bad but now and 64-81 seem to be the worst. There just doesn't seem to be any hope. There's been only one constant...the Mara family. Somehow, we have to get these people out of the building...hire a President of the team and eliminate the nepotism that permeates the Giants.
def now.  
GMAN4LIFE : 11/7/2019 1:48 pm : link
we drafted a "sure thing hall of famer in OBJ". and look at where we are now.

just a debacle.
Current era, definitely.  
an_idol_mind : 11/7/2019 1:48 pm : link
At least the team could play defense in the 90s.

Moreover, the 90s were defined by quarterback problems. Simms was at the end of his career, and the team failed to find a replacement. That's frustrating, but not as frustrating as having a franchise quarterback in place and then pissing away half a decade of his career.

It boggles my mind that the Giants went from having two 1,000-yard rushers in 2008 to showcasing a historically bad offensive line from 2013 through 2019.
The 90s were worse for me  
Steve in ATL : 11/7/2019 1:58 pm : link
I don't love the currrent game as much as I did back then so it mattered more in the 90s. The officials rule today's game and defense was better under the old rules.
Much worse now  
mattnyg05 : 11/7/2019 2:02 pm : link
Especially when you factor in things like stadium, current state of the NFL, officiating. Even if the Giants sucked back then, you still were playing in Giants Stadium and it still felt important to watch NFL games.

My family has season tickets and Iíve never felt less inclined to use them for so many reasons. I can barely get through a game on TV which is astounding.

I wonder if with the age of internet (making the season ticket a moot point) and the threat of the possible end of football someday, if this kind of shitty play might actually erode a fan base (unlike it did in the 70s). I always watch games, never miss them, but I have found myself wondering why I even watched. It feels like the Knicks which is scary.
Hands down NOW  
Thegratefulhead : 11/7/2019 2:10 pm : link
We have had a QB all this time.

QBs are hard to find, we did not have one for most of the 90,s

No linebackers or OL for a decade. It is crazy. FIX IT.
This one  
HoustonGiant : 11/7/2019 2:12 pm : link
since the 90's I was so busy in school, etc.

Didn't realize Perkins got 2 seasons then the axe and BP came in.
no doubt this era...  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11/7/2019 2:13 pm : link
there were some fun seasons and games in the 90's...

Back then, even when bad I always thought that there was a least a chance they would win.

Now, its turn it on and wait for crap to happen. They just arent fun to watch at all!!

How many times can you watch the most talented RB in the league receive a handoff with no momentum and run it straight into the line. Or watch 3rd and 15's get picked up all game long after playing well on 1st and 2nd down.

I
RE: I will say it again...the Giants are the worst  
GiantEgo : 11/7/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14668394 Thatís Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
NFC East team since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970. Sadly, I've been around and am still around for all these eras. It has been tough to remain a Giants' fan but, fortunately, I am built that way. All the teams I cheer for have been the same teams since I was 7.

But the ineptitude of the Giants makes it very frustrating. 64-81, 91-99 and now...they were all bad but now and 64-81 seem to be the worst. There just doesn't seem to be any hope. There's been only one constant...the Mara family. Somehow, we have to get these people out of the building...hire a President of the team and eliminate the nepotism that permeates the Giants.


Please some perspective...They are 5-0 in championship games 4-1 in the super bowl. Would you really trade that with the Eagles?
RE: RE: I will say it again...the Giants are the worst  
jvm52106 : 11/7/2019 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14668487 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
In comment 14668394 Thatís Gold, Jerry said:


Quote:


NFC East team since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970. Sadly, I've been around and am still around for all these eras. It has been tough to remain a Giants' fan but, fortunately, I am built that way. All the teams I cheer for have been the same teams since I was 7.

But the ineptitude of the Giants makes it very frustrating. 64-81, 91-99 and now...they were all bad but now and 64-81 seem to be the worst. There just doesn't seem to be any hope. There's been only one constant...the Mara family. Somehow, we have to get these people out of the building...hire a President of the team and eliminate the nepotism that permeates the Giants.



Please some perspective...They are 5-0 in championship games 4-1 in the super bowl. Would you really trade that with the Eagles?


Plus the Cardinals were in the NFC East for quite awhile during that stretch as well.
Without a doubt, the 70's up to 1981  
Pete in CO : 11/7/2019 4:23 pm : link
Not even close. The NFL stepped in to support NYG team ownership. NYG lost 16 straight to Dallas. good players, no direction with Ownership. terrible coaching.

The other two eras mentioned have had more stability in those categories.
_______  
I am Ninja : 11/7/2019 5:50 pm : link
What makes it tricky is I cant tell if I hate NFL football increasingly over the past 5 or so years because it really is garbage, or because we are garbage. And it may be the case that its both.
RE: _______  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14668626 I am Ninja said:
Quote:
What makes it tricky is I cant tell if I hate NFL football increasingly over the past 5 or so years because it really is garbage, or because we are garbage. And it may be the case that its both.


This is sort of my own dilemma as well. I can't tell if the Giants are making me lose interest in the NFL, or if the NFL is making me lose interest in the Giants.

I tend to think it's more a function of the Giants being bad than a deterioration of play issue; though the latter is certainly a contributing factor. The landscape of the league probably has never been worse since I've been watching. Every rule change makes the league shittier than before, and I don't think it's going to take long before the product on the field looks nothing like what most of us grew up watching.

For as long as the Giants and the NFL exist, I know I'll keep watching and keep rooting for them. But, years like we've had lately are exhausting.

The luster of the new season has worn off within a month and we've quickly realized that we're left with a crappy football team that isn't going anywhere anytime soon - for what feels like the 5th or 6th time in about as many years.
70ís and itís not close.  
Giant John : 11/7/2019 6:27 pm : link
You guys that think different donít understand what real pain is. Take a look at Xís list.
RE: .  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 6:49 pm : link
In comment 14668126 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
This is by far the worst era in my lifetime. Iím 42


I feel identically. I'm 41.

This is a pathetic excuse for an organization right now.
this era is worse  
Enzo : 11/7/2019 6:53 pm : link
George Young may have been past his expiration date as a GM, but I would bet most teams were still doing things "the old fashioned way". Now? It seems like the smart teams are so far beyond us as that we have zero chance to build a real contender.
Nice thread topic  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/7/2019 7:06 pm : link
For me it is simple. We had a HOF coach and QB for a good part of 2012-2017. Franchises have searched, selected and hoped for decades to be so fortunate..........a travesty of what could and should have been.
RE: 70ís and itís not close.  
Route 9 : 11/7/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14668651 Giant John said:
Quote:
You guys that think different donít understand what real pain is. Take a look at Xís list.


As it happens, on BBI we get reminded about the 70s, so yes we know because you tell us about those years, every, single, day.

Again. Eagles WINNING SUPER BOWL. Painful. Fuck off with the Dallas hater shit. SB 52 was the one thing that shouldve never happened and it did. Nauseating seeing that scumbag fanbase get their way.
Maybe Chris in Philly should pull up a chair  
Route 9 : 11/7/2019 7:34 pm : link
and tell you school boys, what is what.
This is the worse era by far  
Canton : 11/7/2019 7:40 pm : link
And wasting our franchise QB's prime, during it, makes it even worse.
this is worse  
mdc1 : 11/7/2019 9:34 pm : link
you do not even see football basics being executed on the field. Giants should join the NCAA and compete.
RE: I will say it again...the Giants are the worst  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14668394 Thatís Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
NFC East team since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970. Sadly, I've been around and am still around for all these eras. It has been tough to remain a Giants' fan but, fortunately, I am built that way. All the teams I cheer for have been the same teams since I was 7.

But the ineptitude of the Giants makes it very frustrating. 64-81, 91-99 and now...they were all bad but now and 64-81 seem to be the worst. There just doesn't seem to be any hope. There's been only one constant...the Mara family. Somehow, we have to get these people out of the building...hire a President of the team and eliminate the nepotism that permeates the Giants.


GTFO with that. The Giants have won 4 Super Bowls. The Skins have 3, the Eagles 1. The whole point of this exercise is to win it all. To say the Giants are 'worst team since the merger' is ridiculous. Also, the Cards were in our division until 01 or 02.
Clarification: Weíve Had Enough was 1978  
Jim in Fairfax : 11/7/2019 9:47 pm : link
Not 1979.

1978 was the year of ďThe FumbleĒ. Gibson was fired. Tickets were burned, The ďWeíve Had EnoughĒ banner flew. McVay was fired. That was the Nadir.

1979 brought George Young, Ray Perkins, Phil Simms. Still a losing team, but one with new promise. It was a not a year fans were disgusted with.

What made the 90s difficult to deal with was the rise  
Jimmy Googs : 11/7/2019 9:52 pm : link
of the Dallas Cowboys as we declined.

But the ridiculousness in drafting since the last SuperBowl win and the awful mismanagement and poor decision making regarding Eli is simply egregious.
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