he started and they went 2-0. Since then 0-5. The NFL has adapted to Jones at QB and the lack of skill players around him + a terrible HC and poor D is the reason why they are 2-7
The guy has performed as well as you can expect a rookie too. He'll get the ball security issues under control and his pocket awareness will improve with experience. If by this time next year we're talking about the same issues, then maybe it's time to be concerned.
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
It's really something we can't answer - based on how much Eli vs. Jones at QB factored into the roster composition and playbook development, there would either be limited impact or it could be a big deal.
Would knowing that Jones would be out there for every snap have changed how they approached the OL? Who they signed for WRs/TEs? It's hard to imagine the planning would have been exactly the same whether a 15 year vet pocket passing QB was under center rather than a mobile rookie taking his first snaps.
RE: RE: You mean like cutting Eli and using that cap Â
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
How about this scenario instead - the Giants take that money and instead of renegotiating the cadavers of Solder and Ellison, they just absorb cap space this year in a lost season and maximize their cap room and flexibility going forward?
Is that too difficult to understand, Mr. Pom Poms? Do you want me to rewrite it using only monosyllabic words?
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
You're probably right. 39 year old QBs never decline. In fact, I don't know why we didn't consider giving the QB job back to Simms instead of going with the kid.
What color is the sky in your world? And what do you do with the money that ordinary people spend on life insurance in your universe where people never age?
This version of Eli apologia is just sad. The fact that you're using a rookie QB going through his growing pains as your baseline for why Eli could still be effective just doesn't seem real.
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
If Eli is not done, then waive the no trade clause and go, only one stopping it is Eli and the fact that no team wants him
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
Man, you really suck at this. But Gatorade is on you like white on rice so I won’t pile on...
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
Yeah let’s resurrect Eli and get him on the field ASAP. That should help this team move in the right direction...
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
How about this scenario instead - the Giants take that money and instead of renegotiating the cadavers of Solder and Ellison, they just absorb cap space this year in a lost season and maximize their cap room and flexibility going forward?
Is that too difficult to understand, Mr. Pom Poms? Do you want me to rewrite it using only monosyllabic words?
Spending big bucks in FA is what got us Solder and Ellison (and Vernon for that matter). FA is best used to plug holes - not to assemble a team.
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
Yeah let’s resurrect Eli and get him on the field ASAP. That should help this team move in the right direction...
That wasn’t his point, but I’m not surprised you didn’t get it.
You dipshits bandied about like Eli was holding us back, that those of us complaining about the shit offensive line, shit run game, shit defense and shit coaching were simply making excuses for Eli.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
Yeah let’s resurrect Eli and get him on the field ASAP. That should help this team move in the right direction...
That wasn’t his point, but I’m not surprised you didn’t get it.
You dipshits bandied about like Eli was holding us back, that those of us complaining about the shit offensive line, shit run game, shit defense and shit coaching were simply making excuses for Eli.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Bravo
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
You dipshits bandied about like Eli was holding us back, that those of us complaining about the shit offensive line, shit run game, shit defense and shit coaching were simply making excuses for Eli.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
You dipshits bandied about like Eli was holding us back, that those of us complaining about the shit offensive line, shit run game, shit defense and shit coaching were simply making excuses for Eli.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
Close enough I guess. Except I think maybe having a crap team can make any QB look sucky, as we're seeing now with Jones. Personally I think it makes it very difficult to accurately evaluate a quarterback, but I guess you're the expert.
Threy should have done the reverse. Played Eli longer... Â
If Mara was requiring Gettleman to pay Eli drafting a quarterback at 6 should have been taken off the board entirely. I like Jones, but he's not some Elway type prospect that comes around once in a generation. This upcoming draft has several QB prospects that would grade similarly to our better than Jones; we could have used that 6 to get another player and then drafted any of Tua, Herbert, Burrow, or Fromm in 2020.
Just amateur hour from the Giants. Completely amateur.
Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
You certainly don't.
Terps was always right on this. Eli should have been gone January 15th and all that money saved. Maybe even the year before, but is really very hard for a team icon to be summarily dismissed. Yankees did not do it with CC, even extending him when anybody with half of a baseball mind knew he was torched by Oct 2018.
Without having a definite QB in hand, I can understand, a little bit, keeping him this year. But they could have grabbed a less expensive vet to start the year...
Close enough I guess. Except I think maybe having a crap team can make any QB look sucky, as we're seeing now with Jones. Personally I think it makes it very difficult to accurately evaluate a quarterback, but I guess you're the expert.
Jones is a rookie who has started seven games. It's ok if he sucks, and it's not all because of the team around him.
Eli is in his 15th season and being paid like a franchise QB - it's not ok for him to suck.
Look at the bright side - if you honestly believe that it's just the supporting cast and not the QB himself that has any responsibility for the team's struggles, then we're in great shape having gotten much younger and cheaper at the QB position and can now focus on using the extra cap room from Eli's contract expiring to build the supporting cast that is the only thing that you're suggesting is holding back Jones the way it held back Eli.
Or, you can be realistic and give some thought to the idea that 22 year old QBs tend to improve, whereas 39 year old QBs tend to decline.
Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
Yeah. Eli isn't the answer. This team would be even worse with him behind center.
Eli isn't a turnover machine. The stat with the greatest correlation to wins is TO difference. Belichik rates a defense (1) Points allowed (so duh people often overlook the fact) (2) TOs (3) Yards.
it does not matter if Jones has the ability to play at high levels if he fumbles the ball away 2-3 times a game. Can't win with turnovers and those players do not belong on the field if habitual.
it does not matter if Jones has the ability to play at high levels if he fumbles the ball away 2-3 times a game. Can't win with turnovers and those players do not belong on the field if habitual.
Weird, but I'm pretty sure we won the SB twice with the QB who had more turnovers than anyone else in the NFL for the length of his career, and led the league in INTs during one of the championship seasons.
I do agree that Jones needs to clean it up, but it's weird to see so many people act like we haven't had turnover issues at QB in the not-so-distant past.
You dipshits bandied about like Eli was holding us back, that those of us complaining about the shit offensive line, shit run game, shit defense and shit coaching were simply making excuses for Eli.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
+1. Go get 'em man. They will learn nothing unless someone points out their fallacies.
There are only two reasons great qb's pack it in: they start getting hurt all the time or their arms are gone. Neither applies to Manning and it would not surprise me one bit to see him in Indy or Foxboro or Pittsburgh next season. These guys don't forget how to play qb.
Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
You certainly don't.
Terps was always right on this. Eli should have been gone January 15th and all that money saved. Maybe even the year before, but is really very hard for a team icon to be summarily dismissed. Yankees did not do it with CC, even extending him when anybody with half of a baseball mind knew he was torched by Oct 2018.
Without having a definite QB in hand, I can understand, a little bit, keeping him this year. But they could have grabbed a less expensive vet to start the year...
To do what? Let Dave spend it on more Solders, Remmers, Stewarts and Omemahs (or whatever his name was)? Please.
What they should have done is take Josh Allen, let Manning play out his contract and enter the qb bonanza in the next draft. They'd have the money, a qb they could start immediately and a star edge rusher. Instead they spent the Manning money anyway, ended up with Danny Turnover and spent a 3 and 5 in order to pay big dollars to a guy the Jets didn't want any longer.
Someone has to work at it for an organization to be this inept. Amazingly, this is the avenue you are all advocating to take.
He's still currently the active NFL leader in career fumbles and career interceptions.
When you play 15 years, you are going to accumulate some stats. He's also thrown for 56000 yards and 362 td passes. Wake us all when Danny Turnover gets close.
I can't believe we are still bashing each other over Eli Â
I've said this many times over the past 2 seasons. It really doesn't matter if Eli could still play at a good enough level last year or this year. There was absolutely zero chance that either team was going to be any good.
By the time the rest of the team is good enough to be competitive, Eli will be long done. That makes him irrelevant in any discussion of how to build the team going forward. With the possible exception of having cut him earlier and save the cap money this year. Again, having him or not would not make a significant difference in the team's fortunes. Maybe a draft spot or two if not.
I've said this many times over the past 2 seasons. It really doesn't matter if Eli could still play at a good enough level last year or this year. There was absolutely zero chance that either team was going to be any good.
By the time the rest of the team is good enough to be competitive, Eli will be long done. That makes him irrelevant in any discussion of how to build the team going forward. With the possible exception of having cut him earlier and save the cap money this year. Again, having him or not would not make a significant difference in the team's fortunes. Maybe a draft spot or two if not.
Trouble is very, very few were framing their objections to Eli this way over the past two years. The vast majority of the mob were the same dipshits Tim is railing about.
I've said this many times over the past 2 seasons. It really doesn't matter if Eli could still play at a good enough level last year or this year. There was absolutely zero chance that either team was going to be any good.
By the time the rest of the team is good enough to be competitive, Eli will be long done. That makes him irrelevant in any discussion of how to build the team going forward. With the possible exception of having cut him earlier and save the cap money this year. Again, having him or not would not make a significant difference in the team's fortunes. Maybe a draft spot or two if not.
Trouble is very, very few were framing their objections to Eli this way over the past two years. The vast majority of the mob were the same dipshits Tim is railing about.
The majority of complaints about the team sticking with Eli had as much to do with the team's setup as they did with Eli's skill.
The problem is on the other side you had people who were unwilling to consider that maybe Father Time had caught up with Eli, and that the game had changed enough to the point where he just couldn't be effective anymore.
And even after the Giants proved that to be the case one more time, here's another thread pages deep with people still refusing to believe that it's over for Eli, and has been for some time.
Nobody wanted him to get old, the same way nobody wanted to see LT or Strahan go. They all do at some point, and some of them hang on for too long.
original question. Just wondering if Jones was the starter from the beginning would, for example, the fumbling issues have been resolved in camp? Similar to the way they fixed Tiki's fumbling when TC and company came on board.
What they should have done is take Josh Allen, let Manning play out his contract and enter the qb bonanza in the next draft. They'd have the money, a qb they could start immediately and a star edge rusher. Instead they spent the Manning money anyway, ended up with Danny Turnover and spent a 3 and 5 in order to pay big dollars to a guy the Jets didn't want any longer.
Someone has to work at it for an organization to be this inept. Amazingly, this is the avenue you are all advocating to take.
That's a brilliant plan...keep putting off that QB debate so you can hope the guy you want is still there in 2020...
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
Would knowing that Jones would be out there for every snap have changed how they approached the OL? Who they signed for WRs/TEs? It's hard to imagine the planning would have been exactly the same whether a 15 year vet pocket passing QB was under center rather than a mobile rookie taking his first snaps.
Quote:
To add to this team?
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
How about this scenario instead - the Giants take that money and instead of renegotiating the cadavers of Solder and Ellison, they just absorb cap space this year in a lost season and maximize their cap room and flexibility going forward?
Is that too difficult to understand, Mr. Pom Poms? Do you want me to rewrite it using only monosyllabic words?
All that extra camp time and reps for him
Extra '19 cap space
Con
There's no way watching Eli's professionalism didn't help
Much deeper problems with the team.
You're probably right. 39 year old QBs never decline. In fact, I don't know why we didn't consider giving the QB job back to Simms instead of going with the kid.
What color is the sky in your world? And what do you do with the money that ordinary people spend on life insurance in your universe where people never age?
This version of Eli apologia is just sad. The fact that you're using a rookie QB going through his growing pains as your baseline for why Eli could still be effective just doesn't seem real.
If Eli is not done, then waive the no trade clause and go, only one stopping it is Eli and the fact that no team wants him
The answer is zero.
My guess is that Eli still wants to play, but won't find any takers this off season and he'll retire as a Giant.
Quote:
To add to this team?
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
Man, you really suck at this. But Gatorade is on you like white on rice so I won’t pile on...
Yeah let’s resurrect Eli and get him on the field ASAP. That should help this team move in the right direction...
Quote:
In comment 14668574 90.Cal said:
Quote:
To add to this team?
This place is precious. The second the giants throw big money at a FA half this place gets the vapors over the guaranteed money. Shit some here are STILL losing sleep over the big bad Vernon contract yet Vernon helped this team get to the playoffs, something we rarely see, and then his horrible, cap crunching, soul crushing contract was traded for Zietler. Was the contract REALLY that bad?
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
How about this scenario instead - the Giants take that money and instead of renegotiating the cadavers of Solder and Ellison, they just absorb cap space this year in a lost season and maximize their cap room and flexibility going forward?
Is that too difficult to understand, Mr. Pom Poms? Do you want me to rewrite it using only monosyllabic words?
Spending big bucks in FA is what got us Solder and Ellison (and Vernon for that matter). FA is best used to plug holes - not to assemble a team.
Quote:
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
Yeah let’s resurrect Eli and get him on the field ASAP. That should help this team move in the right direction...
That wasn’t his point, but I’m not surprised you didn’t get it.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
Quote:
In comment 14668644 Tim in VA said:
Quote:
It's the same loser team as when Eli was at the helm, and the same ugly losses week after week. Yet it's clear that he is done? To me it's clear that Eli being done was a red herring.
Yeah let’s resurrect Eli and get him on the field ASAP. That should help this team move in the right direction...
That wasn’t his point, but I’m not surprised you didn’t get it.
Apologies. Enlighten me as to the point?
Yeah. Eli isn't the answer. This team would be even worse with him behind center.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Bravo
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
Bravo!
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
The team around Eli sucked. And Eli also sucked.
Good enough for you, dipshit?
You guys with this view of a playoff run in 2019 are absolutely classic...
Just amateur hour from the Giants. Completely amateur.
You certainly don't.
Terps was always right on this. Eli should have been gone January 15th and all that money saved. Maybe even the year before, but is really very hard for a team icon to be summarily dismissed. Yankees did not do it with CC, even extending him when anybody with half of a baseball mind knew he was torched by Oct 2018.
Without having a definite QB in hand, I can understand, a little bit, keeping him this year. But they could have grabbed a less expensive vet to start the year...
Jones is a rookie who has started seven games. It's ok if he sucks, and it's not all because of the team around him.
Eli is in his 15th season and being paid like a franchise QB - it's not ok for him to suck.
Look at the bright side - if you honestly believe that it's just the supporting cast and not the QB himself that has any responsibility for the team's struggles, then we're in great shape having gotten much younger and cheaper at the QB position and can now focus on using the extra cap room from Eli's contract expiring to build the supporting cast that is the only thing that you're suggesting is holding back Jones the way it held back Eli.
Or, you can be realistic and give some thought to the idea that 22 year old QBs tend to improve, whereas 39 year old QBs tend to decline.
Quote:
Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
Yeah. Eli isn't the answer. This team would be even worse with him behind center.
Eli isn't a turnover machine. The stat with the greatest correlation to wins is TO difference. Belichik rates a defense (1) Points allowed (so duh people often overlook the fact) (2) TOs (3) Yards.
Weird, but I'm pretty sure we won the SB twice with the QB who had more turnovers than anyone else in the NFL for the length of his career, and led the league in INTs during one of the championship seasons.
I do agree that Jones needs to clean it up, but it's weird to see so many people act like we haven't had turnover issues at QB in the not-so-distant past.
Well you got what you wanted dipshits, now what? Oh....now the offensive line ducks, now the defense sucks, now the coaching sucks.
Way to catch up, dipshits.
Did I mention you're dipshits?
There are only two reasons great qb's pack it in: they start getting hurt all the time or their arms are gone. Neither applies to Manning and it would not surprise me one bit to see him in Indy or Foxboro or Pittsburgh next season. These guys don't forget how to play qb.
Eli isn't a turnover machine.
He's still currently the active NFL leader in career fumbles and career interceptions.
Quote:
Do you have anything of substance to add to the conversation?
You certainly don't.
Terps was always right on this. Eli should have been gone January 15th and all that money saved. Maybe even the year before, but is really very hard for a team icon to be summarily dismissed. Yankees did not do it with CC, even extending him when anybody with half of a baseball mind knew he was torched by Oct 2018.
Without having a definite QB in hand, I can understand, a little bit, keeping him this year. But they could have grabbed a less expensive vet to start the year...
What they should have done is take Josh Allen, let Manning play out his contract and enter the qb bonanza in the next draft. They'd have the money, a qb they could start immediately and a star edge rusher. Instead they spent the Manning money anyway, ended up with Danny Turnover and spent a 3 and 5 in order to pay big dollars to a guy the Jets didn't want any longer.
Someone has to work at it for an organization to be this inept. Amazingly, this is the avenue you are all advocating to take.
Quote:
Eli isn't a turnover machine.
He's still currently the active NFL leader in career fumbles and career interceptions.
By the time the rest of the team is good enough to be competitive, Eli will be long done. That makes him irrelevant in any discussion of how to build the team going forward. With the possible exception of having cut him earlier and save the cap money this year. Again, having him or not would not make a significant difference in the team's fortunes. Maybe a draft spot or two if not.
By the time the rest of the team is good enough to be competitive, Eli will be long done. That makes him irrelevant in any discussion of how to build the team going forward. With the possible exception of having cut him earlier and save the cap money this year. Again, having him or not would not make a significant difference in the team's fortunes. Maybe a draft spot or two if not.
Trouble is very, very few were framing their objections to Eli this way over the past two years. The vast majority of the mob were the same dipshits Tim is railing about.
Quote:
I've said this many times over the past 2 seasons. It really doesn't matter if Eli could still play at a good enough level last year or this year. There was absolutely zero chance that either team was going to be any good.
By the time the rest of the team is good enough to be competitive, Eli will be long done. That makes him irrelevant in any discussion of how to build the team going forward. With the possible exception of having cut him earlier and save the cap money this year. Again, having him or not would not make a significant difference in the team's fortunes. Maybe a draft spot or two if not.
Trouble is very, very few were framing their objections to Eli this way over the past two years. The vast majority of the mob were the same dipshits Tim is railing about.
The majority of complaints about the team sticking with Eli had as much to do with the team's setup as they did with Eli's skill.
The problem is on the other side you had people who were unwilling to consider that maybe Father Time had caught up with Eli, and that the game had changed enough to the point where he just couldn't be effective anymore.
And even after the Giants proved that to be the case one more time, here's another thread pages deep with people still refusing to believe that it's over for Eli, and has been for some time.
Nobody wanted him to get old, the same way nobody wanted to see LT or Strahan go. They all do at some point, and some of them hang on for too long.
NTTAWWT.
Let's keep the focus on Jones please.
What they should have done is take Josh Allen, let Manning play out his contract and enter the qb bonanza in the next draft. They'd have the money, a qb they could start immediately and a star edge rusher. Instead they spent the Manning money anyway, ended up with Danny Turnover and spent a 3 and 5 in order to pay big dollars to a guy the Jets didn't want any longer.
Someone has to work at it for an organization to be this inept. Amazingly, this is the avenue you are all advocating to take.
That's a brilliant plan...keep putting off that QB debate so you can hope the guy you want is still there in 2020...
Get over the fucking Eli money already.
Agree 100%... everyone here is so critical of the money we spend. Still laughing at the critics who want Collins back instead of Peppers.
In fact, the only thing this team is a 2019 NFL league leader in is dead money.
So I ask the question, what's so funny?