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rocco8112 : 11/7/2019 5:02 pm
Article linked to on this site today

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/news/as-his-seat-becomes-warmer-pat-shurmur-says-hes-built-for-this/

Quote from Shurmur in the article:



Quote:
Im built for this, he said on Thursday when asked about his job security. I know that were on the right path. I know were a few plays away from getting over the top. We can build on that.


Article from 2017

https://nypost.com/2017/11/15/what-took-ben-mcadoo-so-long-to-step-up/

Quote from former HC Ben McAdoo from article

Quote:
Listen, Im comfortable in my own skin, Im built for this, McAdoo said.

A calm doesnt suit me, a storm does.

Unfortunately for him, this is the football version of a Category 5 hurricane.

The tougher it gets, the better Im gonna get, McAdoo said. The better I expect this team to get down the stretch.



uh oh
This is exactly why Shurmur is horrendous...  
GiantFanInTX : 11/7/2019 5:13 pm : link
He has absolutely no awareness of his team. "We're a few plays away...". No Pat, you're 1000 plays away. This team is absolutely atrocious.

This goes right alongside his comment when asked about Rosas. "He's entitled to miss one...". Actually, no he isn't. His job is to make kicks. I have nothing against Rosas, but I can't stand the ho-hum attitude he has towards his team. Seems like Fassel 2.0.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 5:17 pm : link
It's funny... when I first started posting here 13 and a half years ago (holy cow...that just hit me like a slap in the face) - you'd almost get banned for typing out Handley's name. He was the NYG coach that was universally hated and it was almost unfathomable that we could ever wind up with someone quite as bad. Handley was 'he who we do not speak of' here.

We just turned around and hired not one comparably bad coach; but two. Back to back!

Think about that.
I'm halfway expecting Shurmur's replacement to be Rich Kotite  
Greg from LI : 11/7/2019 5:27 pm : link
That's the way things seem to be proceeding
Hes  
Les in TO : 11/7/2019 5:40 pm : link
Built to be a coordinator. Not everyone has the skill sets to be a head coach.
Imagine the eyerolling when he says this shit  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/7/2019 6:01 pm : link
to the team.

No more low emotional intelligence wiz coordinators, we need a HC with proven success like Coughlin.
Its firing time  
Justlurking : 11/7/2019 6:06 pm : link
he and gettleman need to get the fuck out of here. This organization needs a fresh start with outside voices reshaping the franchise. They have already shown they are not equipped to handle this.
RE: .  
Leg of Theismann : 11/7/2019 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14668604 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
It's funny... when I first started posting here 13 and a half years ago (holy cow...that just hit me like a slap in the face) - you'd almost get banned for typing out Handley's name. He was the NYG coach that was universally hated and it was almost unfathomable that we could ever wind up with someone quite as bad. Handley was 'he who we do not speak of' here.

We just turned around and hired not one comparably bad coach; but two. Back to back!

Think about that.


Which could lead us to think about: what is the one common denominator between both regimes, and the general downfall from greatness of this organization? John Mara. You could say "well we also won 2 super bowls with John Mara"... but I would argue that those super bowls were much in part won on the coattails of decisions made while Wellington Mara was still alive. Namely: Ernie Accorsi and co. hiring Tom Coughlin, drafting Eli, and building a solid foundation starting with a strong o-line that somehow played well as a unit and did not cost an arm and a leg. Jerry Reese happened to hit on some players with impressive physical abilities, but he was awful at evaluating OL and once that piece started to crumble the entire offense and henceforth TEAM started to crumble. Reese was not bad at certain aspects of the job, but you can't win championships just by picking the most physically-gifted players and hitting on a few here and there, you need a core of hard-nosed, no-nonsense, team-oriented, high-character football players, which Accorsi and Coughlin were great at finding. I think Reese taking the reigns a little too much is when the downfall began. He certainly hit on guys like Smith, Boss, Bradshaw... then Cruz, Nicks, and JPP, and we literally won super bowls much in thanks to those dudes, but we would never have won anything without the foundation that Accorsi built and Coughlin built.

And-- I know, I know... Accorsi picked Gettleman, but I'm open to the possibility that Accorsi was better at evaluating players than he was evaluating possible GM candidates. Not to mention the game may have just passed him by in certain ways and he just so happened to be the right man at the right time. But all in all, John Mara is the one who has driven this organization into the ground. I'm not saying he didn't make a decent move here and there in the beginning that helped us win, but as an owner, once the entire thing was his own making, he seems to be missing some core important assets needed to be a successful owner in the NFL and now that the organization is fully his it just flat out sucks. I also wonder about his skills in dealing with Tisch and how different they are than when Wellington was around and shortly after Wellington died.

All I know is John Mara is a horrible NFL owner in 2019, I don't know *fully* why, but he is.
RE: This is exactly why Shurmur is horrendous...  
markky : 11/7/2019 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14668602 GiantFanInTX said:
Quote:
He has absolutely no awareness of his team. "We're a few plays away...". No Pat, you're 1000 plays away. This team is absolutely atrocious.

This goes right alongside his comment when asked about Rosas. "He's entitled to miss one...". Actually, no he isn't. His job is to make kicks. I have nothing against Rosas, but I can't stand the ho-hum attitude he has towards his team. Seems like Fassel 2.0.


Fassel was a much better coach than Shurmur. And I didn't like Fassel.
...  
christian : 11/7/2019 6:17 pm : link
The two of them are big on talk and little on results.

Unless their personalities are completely different behind the scenes, these two both talk a lot of shit and I've never know a shit talker to be a easy to deal with.
RE: .  
.McL. : 11/7/2019 6:23 pm : link
In comment 14668604 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
It's funny... when I first started posting here 13 and a half years ago (holy cow...that just hit me like a slap in the face) - you'd almost get banned for typing out Handley's name. He was the NYG coach that was universally hated and it was almost unfathomable that we could ever wind up with someone quite as bad. Handley was 'he who we do not speak of' here.

We just turned around and hired not one comparably bad coach; but two. Back to back!

Think about that.

You used the "H"word twice....
And referred the "M"word and the "S"word, without actually naming them...
I think this is BANNABLE!!!, Where are the mods when you need them!
Au contraire  
MtDizzle : 11/7/2019 6:24 pm : link
Pat. You actually arent built for this.....at all.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 6:30 pm : link
In comment 14668639 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14668604 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


It's funny... when I first started posting here 13 and a half years ago (holy cow...that just hit me like a slap in the face) - you'd almost get banned for typing out Handley's name. He was the NYG coach that was universally hated and it was almost unfathomable that we could ever wind up with someone quite as bad. Handley was 'he who we do not speak of' here.

We just turned around and hired not one comparably bad coach; but two. Back to back!

Think about that.



Which could lead us to think about: what is the one common denominator between both regimes, and the general downfall from greatness of this organization? John Mara. You could say "well we also won 2 super bowls with John Mara"... but I would argue that those super bowls were much in part won on the coattails of decisions made while Wellington Mara was still alive. Namely: Ernie Accorsi and co. hiring Tom Coughlin, drafting Eli, and building a solid foundation starting with a strong o-line that somehow played well as a unit and did not cost an arm and a leg. Jerry Reese happened to hit on some players with impressive physical abilities, but he was awful at evaluating OL and once that piece started to crumble the entire offense and henceforth TEAM started to crumble. Reese was not bad at certain aspects of the job, but you can't win championships just by picking the most physically-gifted players and hitting on a few here and there, you need a core of hard-nosed, no-nonsense, team-oriented, high-character football players, which Accorsi and Coughlin were great at finding. I think Reese taking the reigns a little too much is when the downfall began. He certainly hit on guys like Smith, Boss, Bradshaw... then Cruz, Nicks, and JPP, and we literally won super bowls much in thanks to those dudes, but we would never have won anything without the foundation that Accorsi built and Coughlin built.

And-- I know, I know... Accorsi picked Gettleman, but I'm open to the possibility that Accorsi was better at evaluating players than he was evaluating possible GM candidates. Not to mention the game may have just passed him by in certain ways and he just so happened to be the right man at the right time. But all in all, John Mara is the one who has driven this organization into the ground. I'm not saying he didn't make a decent move here and there in the beginning that helped us win, but as an owner, once the entire thing was his own making, he seems to be missing some core important assets needed to be a successful owner in the NFL and now that the organization is fully his it just flat out sucks. I also wonder about his skills in dealing with Tisch and how different they are than when Wellington was around and shortly after Wellington died.

All I know is John Mara is a horrible NFL owner in 2019, I don't know *fully* why, but he is.


I agree that John Mara is a tremendous issue; and to me, he's the biggest one. He's got final say on decisions that mean the most, and he's making a lot of bad ones. He's lost his way and I don't think he really knows what to do anymore. It's scary - and the reason why simply firing Pat Shurmur or Dave Gettleman instils little confidence that those moves will get us closer to turning this around.

Everyone involved in the decision-making process deserves blame at this juncture. But, at the end of the day, the guys below John Mara are here because of.... John Mara.

He's not going anywhere anytime soon. So, we're pretty much at the point of crossing fingers and praying that he'll just figure out how to get the right people in this front office to lead the charge for change.
Leg  
fkap : 11/7/2019 7:12 pm : link
After winning a second SB, Coughlin's input is going up, not down. After he was shown the door, Mara said he admired TC's eye for talent and wanted to slide him upstairs in a talent advisory role. That might have been a little sugar coating to ease the pain, but you are delusional if you think TC didn't have a big input on player drafting/acquisition and that his fingerprints weren't all over the team he left behind.

The Maras, both John and Chris, are an issue.
Accorsi was great at finding  
RollBlue : 11/8/2019 1:19 pm : link
hard nosed football players? In November of 2007, most on this board wanted him run out of town. His drafts and FA picks were not better than Reeses. Man people have short memories. W/O Reeses drafts in 2007, 2008, and 2010, they don't win either SB. Guys from the 2007 draft like Steve Smith, Bradshaw, Boss, Ross were huge in winning SB42. Guys like JPP, Nicks, MM and Cruz were huge in winning SB46.
He's not a few plays away  
Bill L : 11/8/2019 1:20 pm : link
but I think he's a few players away.
Like I said when everybody was so ready to show Coughlin the door....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:22 pm : link
careful what you wish for, 'cause the grass ain't always greener.
RE: Like I said when everybody was so ready to show Coughlin the door....  
BlueHurricane : 11/8/2019 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14669398 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
careful what you wish for, 'cause the grass ain't always greener.


Yep. Extremely dumb move at the time and now we are dealing with the fallout.

Coughlin was 37-43 from 2011-2015 when he was let go.

What coach was 39-41 from 2012 thru 2016??? Sean Payton. At that point there were people speculating he would be canned. I'm sure that Saints team is happy he is still on the sidelines. Coaches do not forget how to coach. Coughlin should still be here with the numb nuts who was selecting the players bagging groceries.

Just remember who succeeded R@y H@ndl$y...  
BamaBlue : 11/8/2019 1:34 pm : link
it was Dan 'friggin' Reeves. That was a dynamic duo if there ever was one. Voldemort was the single worst coaching decision in franshise history; H@ndl$y over Belichick!? Dan Reeves had a great first year, then booted Phil Simms and drafted Dave Brown, who he replaced with Tom Terrific Maddox.

I don't think McAdoo/Shurmur is even in that conversation.
I really don't want to get into a discussion about the coach  
arniefez : 11/8/2019 1:54 pm : link
after Parcells. There is so much BS posted here about that time and that guy. 95% of what is posted here about Parcells leaving is completely wrong and devoid of fact.

But the guy who replaced him isn't close to being the worst NYG coach of the Super Bowl era. Even Shurmur isn't going to be the disaster that was Bill Arnsparger. He only lasted 35 games but 7-28 with a .200 winning percentage is going to be tough to dethrone.

As far as comparing Shurmur to Rich Kotite, 4-28 with the Jets is Kotite's legacy. But his career record was was 40-56 and he had a 10 win and a 11 win season and a playoff win with Buddy Ryan's team in his first two years with the Eagles. Shurmur is never going to win a playoff game.
RE: Like I said when everybody was so ready to show Coughlin the door....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2019 3:19 pm : link
In comment 14669398 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
careful what you wish for, 'cause the grass ain't always greener.


They lost a bunch of games with Coughlin too. Going 6-10 in his last three years isnt great either.

The problem isnt moving on from a coach. It's that the entire franchise doesnt know what it's doing.
RE: RE: Like I said when everybody was so ready to show Coughlin the door....  
rocco8112 : 11/8/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14669574 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14669398 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


careful what you wish for, 'cause the grass ain't always greener.



They lost a bunch of games with Coughlin too. Going 6-10 in his last three years isnt great either.

The problem isnt moving on from a coach. It's that the entire franchise doesnt know what it's doing.



You take a straw poll in the Giants' front office now and I bet to a man they all regret kicking TC to the curb.

2013 to 2015 would be glory days compared to the current debacle
RE: RE: RE: Like I said when everybody was so ready to show Coughlin the door....  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14669632 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
You take a straw poll in the Giants' front office now and I bet to a man they all regret kicking TC to the curb.

2013 to 2015 would be glory days compared to the current debacle


2013-15 was no better than this, cmon, Besides, Coughlin is 73.
2013-2015 *WAS* significantly better..  
Sean : 11/8/2019 4:30 pm : link
In 2013, at 4-6 we had a crucial division game hosting Dallas - Giants rallied for 4 straight wins after going 0-6. MetLife had a ton of juice for that game.

In 2014, we were 3-2 & then lost 7 straight, that was BAD. Team did rally to win 3 straight and get to 6-9 at least.

In 2015 we were 5-4 - making it well past Halloween.
RE: RE: RE: Like I said when everybody was so ready to show Coughlin the door....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/8/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14669632 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669574 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14669398 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


careful what you wish for, 'cause the grass ain't always greener.



They lost a bunch of games with Coughlin too. Going 6-10 in his last three years isnt great either.

The problem isnt moving on from a coach. It's that the entire franchise doesnt know what it's doing.




You take a straw poll in the Giants' front office now and I bet to a man they all regret kicking TC to the curb.

2013 to 2015 would be glory days compared to the current debacle


7-9, 6-10, 6-10 in those years

Pat Shurmur's team won 5 games last year, has a chance to match that number this year.

What "glory days"?
RE: 2013-2015 *WAS* significantly better..  
Greg from LI : 11/8/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14669668 Sean said:
Quote:
In 2013, at 4-6 we had a crucial division game hosting Dallas - Giants rallied for 4 straight wins after going 0-6. MetLife had a ton of juice for that game.

In 2014, we were 3-2 & then lost 7 straight, that was BAD. Team did rally to win 3 straight and get to 6-9 at least.

In 2015 we were 5-4 - making it well past Halloween.


Oh boy, 5-4! Then they closed out going 1-6, so who cares?

Sure was a ton of juice for that 2013 Dallas game! Of course, they lost that one. 2013 was a mirage. People got excited about beating a bunch of backup QBs to make their record look respectable, but it meant nothing. That was still a terrible team, as the next season would illustrate. They beat:

Josh Freeman, who had just signed with Minny that week
Matt Barkley
Terrelle Pryor, back when he was still trying to play QB
Scott Tolzein
The corpse of Bob Griffin
And their one starting QB defeated, Matt Stafford
I welcome all of you fellow travelers  
HomerJones45 : 11/8/2019 5:27 pm : link
some of you are eight years late, but no matter, welcome to wisdom.

Do not be discouaged by the boisterous who continue to dwell in the house of ignorance and folly. They will receive wisdom eventually.
RE: RE: 2013-2015 *WAS* significantly better..  
rocco8112 : 11/8/2019 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14669689 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14669668 Sean said:


Quote:


In 2013, at 4-6 we had a crucial division game hosting Dallas - Giants rallied for 4 straight wins after going 0-6. MetLife had a ton of juice for that game.

In 2014, we were 3-2 & then lost 7 straight, that was BAD. Team did rally to win 3 straight and get to 6-9 at least.

In 2015 we were 5-4 - making it well past Halloween.



Oh boy, 5-4! Then they closed out going 1-6, so who cares?

Sure was a ton of juice for that 2013 Dallas game! Of course, they lost that one. 2013 was a mirage. People got excited about beating a bunch of backup QBs to make their record look respectable, but it meant nothing. That was still a terrible team, as the next season would illustrate. They beat:

Josh Freeman, who had just signed with Minny that week
Matt Barkley
Terrelle Pryor, back when he was still trying to play QB
Scott Tolzein
The corpse of Bob Griffin
And their one starting QB defeated, Matt Stafford


I believe firmly that the period from 2013 to 2015, which was nothing to write home about, was superior to whatever the fuck is going on now.

My historical recollection was that the front office decided that TC ( a two time champion who built two winning professional programs in his career) was senile and that promoting his subordinate would unlock the talent on the roster.

That theory has been proven demonstrably false.

Strap in for HC three. Hopefully third time really is the charm.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Percy : 11/9/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14668654 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

. . .


I agree that John Mara is a tremendous issue; and to me, he's the biggest one. He's got final say on decisions that mean the most, and he's making a lot of bad ones. He's lost his way and I don't think he really knows what to do anymore. It's scary - and the reason why simply firing Pat Shurmur or Dave Gettleman instils little confidence that those moves will get us closer to turning this around.

Everyone involved in the decision-making process deserves blame at this juncture. But, at the end of the day, the guys below John Mara are here because of.... John Mara.

He's not going anywhere anytime soon. So, we're pretty much at the point of crossing fingers and praying that he'll just figure out how to get the right people in this front office to lead the charge for change.

This the true horror of the existing and future state of the Giants. Mara has never known or understood doo-dah about football or football players. So there is zero chance "he'll just figure out how to get the right people" for any function at all. (Accounting maybe, but given everything else one might even doubt that. After all, it's obvious his asset is disintegrating.)
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