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Cowherd: You shouldnít fire a HC with a young QB

Sean : 11/7/2019 7:47 pm
Heard this today - he said Kitchens, Gase & Shurmur should all keep their jobs because it will stunt the growth of their young QBís. He said the correct move would be to wipe out the assistants & build a new staff under each HC.

I obviously think this is wildly off base. Especially relating to Jones, I feel he could fully handle dealing with a new offensive system.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/7/2019 7:52 pm : link
How can anyone even make this case for Kitchens or Gase at all?

Mayfield and Darnold look like they're regressing by the week. Shurmur is the only one of the three you could even attempt to entertain that logic with - and I really don't buy it. You don't hold onto a shitty head coach for the QB at the expense of the rest of the football team. That's heinous.
People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 7:53 pm : link
The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.
RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
BillT : 11/7/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.

We were going 5-11 with Vince Lombardi running the team.
That's crazy  
Anakim : 11/7/2019 7:59 pm : link
So in essence, you can be the shittiest head coach, but if you draft a young QB you get a "Get Out of Jail Free" card.
You know what Daniel Jones needs?  
cosmicj : 11/7/2019 7:59 pm : link
Teammates who are steadily improving and a coaching staff with expertise, all resulting in a sense of optimism about the future and pride in oneís organization.
RE: You know what Daniel Jones needs?  
jcn56 : 11/7/2019 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14668697 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Teammates who are steadily improving and a coaching staff with expertise, all resulting in a sense of optimism about the future and pride in oneís organization.


So you want to trade him already?!
RE: RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
an_idol_mind : 11/7/2019 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14668693 BillT said:
Quote:

We were going 5-11 with Vince Lombardi running the team.


Come on. With better coaching, this team could easily have a winning record right now. It wouldn't take Vince Lombardi to make this team look halfway decent.
Jcn - haha  
cosmicj : 11/7/2019 8:06 pm : link
I donít know why Iím bothering to respond to an idiot like Cowherd but the thought that Jones would benefit from playing on a hopeless team mired in suckiness because - hey the plays and terminology are the same ó is so myopic it beggars belief.
RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
BMac : 11/7/2019 8:07 pm : link
In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.


Winning games depends in large part on developing QBs, you fucking dolt.
When Cowherd speaks,  
MOOPS : 11/7/2019 8:09 pm : link
Whatís worse? A new HC and a fresh start in year two  
Ben in Tampa : 11/7/2019 8:11 pm : link
Or two years of development in a losing program and a reboot in year three when Shurmur is inevitably fired?
This is going to be Shurmur's plea to save his job.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/7/2019 8:12 pm : link
And I expect Johnny Boy to buy it. Oy vey...
Tell that to Jared Goff.  
FStubbs : 11/7/2019 8:17 pm : link
Whatever you may think of him, he'd be out of the league now if Jeff Fisher had been retained to "develop" him.
RE: RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
Go Terps : 11/7/2019 8:45 pm : link
In comment 14668708 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:


Quote:


The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.



Winning games depends in large part on developing QBs, you fucking dolt.


Actually it doesn't.
...  
christian : 11/7/2019 8:48 pm : link
It's nuts, but if the Giants had a no. 1 WR and a competent offensive line, maybe that would also help not ruining a young QB?
Itís Cowherd  
PetesHereNow : 11/7/2019 8:50 pm : link
His job is to say crazy shit so that people will talk about him, watch him, and call into him. Even if you accept his argument, when does a QB stop falling under young QB status? 3rd year? 4th year?
RE: RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/7/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14668708 BMac said:
Quote:
In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:


Quote:


The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.



Winning games depends in large part on developing QBs, you fucking dolt.


Why is he a dolt? Developing QB's is the job of the QB coach and the Offensive Coordinator. The head head coach is supposed to have a macro vision that will develop the team. Since there is no real OC or QB Coach the QB development is falling on Shurmur and that's not his job
It would be one thing  
Mike in Boston : 11/7/2019 8:55 pm : link
If you had a good coach and were trying to sign a better one. You might then argue that continuity is more important than a modest improvement in coaching. When the coach is incompetent, it is clearly important to replace him.

I hear a lot of complaining about the talent on the OL and in the secondary, but out biggest problems have been guys not knowing whom to cover or block. Week after week, with no apparent improvement. That is clearly a coaching problem.

And for that matter, Jones keeps making the same mental errors week after week too.
these guys are like cockroaches  
mdc1 : 11/7/2019 9:32 pm : link
you cannot get rid of them. they show up on radio, when you don't listen to them, they put them on TV and force you to watch them taling on the radio, or they add them to pre-game panels.

these guys are verbal diarrhea
solution  
mdc1 : 11/7/2019 9:33 pm : link
fire Shurmur, trade Jones and draft a better QB with a new coach.

Shurmur is a 17-41 head coach  
moespree : 11/7/2019 9:37 pm : link
IF he had 3 straight 11-5 seasons he'd still only have a 50-56 career record.

Will dumping a guy like this really stunt the growth of a young QB? I don't think so. In fact you can argue keeping someone this inept as a head coach will actually be the thing to stunt the growth of a young QB.

Get rid of him.
Be reasonable  
Coopcomic : 11/7/2019 9:56 pm : link
Next year is the year to judge.

We started with Eli, getting a sort of Derek Jeter treatment - you still had a complete roster to overhaul with years of Reese. The Giants have been in ballgames (for the most part). There is development happening. But another draft, lots of cap space, if playoffs aren't there next year then yes - the firings should commence.
Both takes are wrong  
Daniel in MI : 11/7/2019 9:58 pm : link
because there is no general rule, because coaches and situations are not all the same.

If your offensive system will change with a new OC, then you are changing systems even if you retain the HC. If, as is probably the case here, your HC has an offensive system and is known for it, then it is a system change and perhaps it will set a QB back. It would be his third system in 2 years (college, and then 2 more). Not great for him, he's barely learning this system.

And of course, what coach are you getting rid of and what are you bringing in?

The whole developing a QB thing is so overblown, would you rather  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/7/2019 9:59 pm : link
have a QB genius who sucks as a head coach or a guy that doesn't really know about developing QBs but is a good head coach. Its clearly the latter option as you can bring in a competent QB coach. Trust me with enought time Peyton Manning was becoming Peyton Manning, its just how fast they get there. The best way to ensure you aren't fucking your QB up is by surrounding him with a good offense. Shit we are lucky DJ is as mentally tough as he is with this dog shit offensive line.
Disagree  
WillVAB : 11/7/2019 10:11 pm : link
If the team is losing primarily because a young QB is taking his lumps, then the HC should get a pass.

If the team is losing independent of the QB, thatís on coaching and/or roster management.

Here, Jones has looked spotty at times but this staff has done nothing to get the most out him. Theyíve done nothing to put Barkley in a position to succeed. All of the young talent hasnít taken a step forward this year. Thatís on coaching.

This organization is just wasting time with this staff.
Disagree  
WillVAB : 11/7/2019 10:12 pm : link
If the team is losing primarily because a young QB is taking his lumps, then the HC should get a pass.

If the team is losing independent of the QB, thatís on coaching and/or roster management.

Here, Jones has looked spotty at times but this staff has done nothing to get the most out him. Theyíve done nothing to put Barkley in a position to succeed. All of the young talent hasnít taken a step forward this year. Thatís on coaching.

This organization is just wasting time with this staff.
You should also never fire a young HC with and old QB  
Vanzetti : 11/7/2019 10:16 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
BillKo : 11/7/2019 10:19 pm : link
In comment 14668741 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
In comment 14668708 BMac said:


Quote:


In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:


Quote:


The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.



Winning games depends in large part on developing QBs, you fucking dolt.



Why is he a dolt? Developing QB's is the job of the QB coach and the Offensive Coordinator. The head head coach is supposed to have a macro vision that will develop the team. Since there is no real OC or QB Coach the QB development is falling on Shurmur and that's not his job


Tell that to Bill Walsh.
RE: Disagree  
BillKo : 11/7/2019 10:24 pm : link
In comment 14668813 WillVAB said:
Quote:
If the team is losing primarily because a young QB is taking his lumps, then the HC should get a pass.

If the team is losing independent of the QB, thatís on coaching and/or roster management.

Here, Jones has looked spotty at times but this staff has done nothing to get the most out him. Theyíve done nothing to put Barkley in a position to succeed. All of the young talent hasnít taken a step forward this year. Thatís on coaching.

This organization is just wasting time with this staff.


I concur. I expected to see more from this group of players, and it hasn't happened.

DG hired Shurmur, and he's allowed to fire him. He's not utilizing the players he picked. DG has to see that.
The is the Ray Handley  
HoustonGiant : 11/7/2019 10:27 pm : link
mindset. I prefer the BP mindset.


Why is he saying it  
Leg of Theismann : 11/7/2019 10:39 pm : link
like it's the same thing as a getting divorced or a father leaving when a child is young? As though they're going to be traumatized or something? They're professional athletes who have had different head coaches, assistant coaches, trainers their entire lives. WTF? Sometimes they talk about these QBs like they're little kids.

If you fire his coach after only one season and bring in a better coach I doubt it would affect Jones, if anything wouldn't it be better for his career if the coach is better?

WTF?
I know somebody that agrees with him  
Giantfan in skinland : 11/7/2019 11:46 pm : link
That's why Shurmur needs to be hc here  
micky : 11/8/2019 6:42 am : link
and extended
RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
twostepgiants : 11/8/2019 7:04 am : link
In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.


GREAT post! 100% accurate
RE: People have lost their minds with quarterbacks  
twostepgiants : 11/8/2019 7:08 am : link
In comment 14668690 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The purpose of football is to win games, not develop quarterbacks. That was part of the problem with hiring Shurmur - it was done with a focus on the QB position when the head coach is supposed to be responsible for building a program and setting the culture.

I don't care if Shurmur can turn Jones into Joe Montana. We're still going 5-11 with him running the team.


Ill also add it was a main reason we hired Ben McAdoo. To keep "consistentcy" on offense with Eli and OBJ 😂🤦🏼‍♂️
Not specific to Cowherd  
Gman11 : 11/8/2019 8:44 am : link
but most of these talking heads are just your average fan with a microphone. They don't know any more about what goes on other than during games than Joe Schmoe sitting on his couch eating potato chips and yelling "throw the ball" at the QB.
RE: Disagree  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/8/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14668814 WillVAB said:
Quote:
If the team is losing primarily because a young QB is taking his lumps, then the HC should get a pass.

If the team is losing independent of the QB, thatís on coaching and/or roster management.

Here, Jones has looked spotty at times but this staff has done nothing to get the most out him. Theyíve done nothing to put Barkley in a position to succeed. All of the young talent hasnít taken a step forward this year. Thatís on coaching.

This organization is just wasting time with this staff.
agree
Idiotic  
TyreeHelmet : 11/8/2019 11:05 am : link
So keep a bad coach because of continuity? Is being continually shitty a good thing?

One of the dumbest things I've heard in awhile.
What if the existing offensive system  
fkap : 11/8/2019 11:29 am : link
is wrong for the young QB?

What if the existing HC is wrong for the young QB?

Why is changing everything else but the HC less catastrophic?

Every situation is different.
RE: Tell that to Jared Goff.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14668717 FStubbs said:
Quote:
Whatever you may think of him, he'd be out of the league now if Jeff Fisher had been retained to "develop" him.


Tell that to his favorite young QB ever Andrew Luck. Perhaps Luck would still be playing if he spent his formative years under Coach Reich.
I'm not sure Jared Goff would agree with that.  
Brown Recluse : 11/8/2019 12:18 pm : link
Anyway, I'm not totally against Shurmur coming back...but if he does, he 1,000000% needs to hire an offensive coordinator that he can hand over the playcalling duties to.

I'd like to see someone like Jay Gruden come in and manage the offense. He was a bad head coach, but the guy knows his stuff. And I think Daniel Jones could benefit greatly.
You shouldnít fire a HC with a young QB  
Torrag : 11/8/2019 1:03 pm : link
There is no hard and fast rule for this imo.

I believe the wrong approach to developing a QB should get you fired. I also believe Shurmur is guilty of this. He's put too much too soon on DJ's plate. He's failed in gameplanning to give him enough protection and security to grow.
Always fire a head coach  
thrunthrublue : 11/8/2019 1:08 pm : link
With a 17 and 41 record, and fire the g.m. That hired that losing bum of a head coach.
RE: I'm not sure Jared Goff would agree with that.  
TyreeHelmet : 11/8/2019 3:14 pm : link
In comment 14669291 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Anyway, I'm not totally against Shurmur coming back...but if he does, he 1,000000% needs to hire an offensive coordinator that he can hand over the playcalling duties to.

I'd like to see someone like Jay Gruden come in and manage the offense. He was a bad head coach, but the guy knows his stuff. And I think Daniel Jones could benefit greatly.


If they don't have faith in Shurmur running an offense or calling the plays- whats the point in keeping him?
Shurmer's record  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/8/2019 3:40 pm : link
is 17-41 with no signs of improvement. You don't hesitate to fire a coach with that record. That's ridiculously bad.
*Shurmur  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/8/2019 3:40 pm : link
fuck autocorrect
There's no one way to do anything  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/8/2019 3:44 pm : link
that's why it so hard. I will say this, if they hire a new OC, then they should just fire Shurmur altogether, guy was brought in as a guru.
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