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You can call out players publicly- Belichicks 1st moves

twostepgiants : 11/8/2019 7:50 am
Yesterday in a few seperate threads there was some debate over Pat Shurmurs handling of things with the team publicly/privately and when this should have started

Some defended Shurmur by saying you cant call out players publicly and some were saying Shurmur needed to do so a long time ago

So I found this article on Bill Belichicks first year as Pats HC. Not the "genuis" BB of today but the fired, 36-44 former HC of Browns taking over the historically losing Pats.

Highlights of article:

One of the first items Bill Belichick crossed off his to-do list after taking over as head coach of the New England Patriots was calling his team fat.

A coach as experienced as Belichick knows there are three things that get under a professional player's skin: cutting his salary, questioning his heart or calling him waistline-challenged.

His harsh words were followed by swift action. Belichick recently cut the backup tackle Ed Ellis for failing his physical and banned four out-of-shape players, including quarterback John Friesz, from practice for a day.

And just in case players still did not get the message, they picked up the newspaper the next day and read these blistering words from their new leader:
'We've got too many people who are overweight, too many guys who are out of shape, and too many guys who just haven't paid the price they need to pay at this time of the season. You can't win with 40 good players while the other team has 53.''

''I've been with some very successful franchises,'' he said. '' And not just X's and O's, with everything, including conditioning. So I am trying to do here what we did with those franchises. I'm telling the players, 'This works. It's proven. So let's follow it.' ''

And how did players respond:

Soon to be Super Bowl Champion defensive back Lawyer Milloy said. ''And we needed a chewing out. I respect a coach who can walk up to you and say, 'You're not cutting it.' ''


Food for thought.
Article - ( New Window )
We need to find somewhere to set the bar  
jcn56 : 11/8/2019 7:52 am : link
You compare most coaches to the GOAT, and they're going to fall way short.

There has to be some reasonable level of competency for a coach that you can establish where you're not asking too much in a comparison.

The problem right now is this guy would need a complete career rebirth to make it up to Rich Kotite's level.
It’s not the head coach’s job  
GiantFanInTX : 11/8/2019 8:13 am : link
To be their friend. It’s his job to motivate them and enable them to be successful. They may not like you, but they will respect you. Anyone who has played sports at a semi decent level knows and understands this.
I ve always believed  
joeinpa : 11/8/2019 8:14 am : link
Calling out players was ok, even sometimes smart. But the distain for Shurmur has grown to a point here, as evidenced by the ridicule we read daily, that nothing he does will be seen in a good light, by some.

Guy s fighting to turn their season around, gets tough, as some were suggesting he do, what s the reaction...........too late.

Guy is obviously a very competitive person, or he wouldy be where he is. Fights back against a question suggesting he might not be up to this challenge by saying, “I was born for this”. ..... gets compared to MacAdoo.

Hard to defend 7-18, so I won’t, but I would love for this guy to stick it in the face of his critics by turning this thing around


Shurmur already turned off the music in practice  
Jimmy Googs : 11/8/2019 8:34 am : link
isn't that enough for some of you guys?
Can't read the article  
Gman11 : 11/8/2019 8:40 am : link
but it appears that he didn't publicly call out specific players. He probably did privately. People here sound like they want Shurmur to throw players under the bus.
Talk vs Action  
LG in NYC : 11/8/2019 8:42 am : link
"Calling out the team" is one thing... acting on it is another... and that is the more important part since without the 2nd part, the 1st part becomes hollow.
Big Belichick Interactive  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 8:46 am : link
has really gotten out of hand with the comparisons. I'd love to operate the way the Pats do but that take time, and requires ownership to give up day to day involvement and fully hand the keys over to the people they are paying to make football decisions.

There's a pretty wide gap in how Belichick is able to conduct himself and a guy with Shurmur's record. I do wish he's be more of a hardass but that will only get you so far. My biggest issues with him are scheme and clock management which is 100% on him.
RE: Big Belichick Interactive  
twostepgiants : 11/8/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14668960 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
has really gotten out of hand with the comparisons. I'd love to operate the way the Pats do but that take time, and requires ownership to give up day to day involvement and fully hand the keys over to the people they are paying to make football decisions.

There's a pretty wide gap in how Belichick is able to conduct himself and a guy with Shurmur's record. I do wish he's be more of a hardass but that will only get you so far. My biggest issues with him are scheme and clock management which is 100% on him.


Did you even read what I posted?

This was the FIRED, LOSING career record as HC Bill Belichick and what he did in his FIRST training camp taking over in NE.
also  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 8:53 am : link
I can't really defend Shurmur anymore but we I'm guessing he does call players out on bad play in practice all the time, what coach doesn't? He cut a guy who failed a physical - why's he getting praise for something that happens everywhere?

Just a weird puff piece on normal coach stuff, IMO.
I did read it  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 8:55 am : link
still doesn't really change anything. Everything in there are things I read about most coaches doing. We don't know if Shurmur is doing them or not, but they aren't abnormal, secret attributes. He cut a guy who was hurt and out of shape players, don't we see that on Hard Knocks?
call out some, leave others alone  
Alan in Toledo : 11/8/2019 9:18 am : link
Some need a kick in the butt while others need encouragement.

Isn't that the genius of winning coaches/managers in all sports?
You just can't do that anymore.  
Dnew15 : 11/8/2019 10:15 am : link
20+ years ago coaches could call players out in the media for being fat or make comments about WR like "She's making progress."

Those days are over. The modern day coach is way more player friendly. I don't think even TC's style would play any more - he wanted to keep coaching - but he didn't get a job despite being a 2X SB winner.

RE: Shurmur already turned off the music in practice  
FranknWeezer : 11/8/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14668941 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
isn't that enough for some of you guys?


The ping pong tables are gone, too. What else do you want!!
RE: Shurmur already turned off the music in practice  
joeinpa : 11/8/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14668941 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
isn't that enough for some of you guys?


That s funny
Interesting to compare how much more forthcoming he was  
bigbluescot : 11/8/2019 10:52 am : link
with the media there. He'd literally just grunt now.
shurmur  
Platos : 11/8/2019 11:13 am : link
wishes he'll get to 36-44 one day
Check your assumptions  
HomerJones45 : 11/8/2019 11:33 am : link
"Historically losing" Pats? The Pats made the playoffs three straight years 96-98 including a Super Bowl appearance and finished 8-8 the season before Belichik became head coach.

There is nothing so misrepresented as Belichik's time with the Browns. He took over a team that had gone 3-13, went 6-10 the following year, went 7-9 the year after that and went 11-5 to make the playoffs. The following year, they were 4-5 when goofball Modell announced they were all moving to Baltimore whether they liked it or not. Then after promising Belichik he would be the coach in Baltimore, fired him after announcing they had moved (in the middle of the night mind you).
Ownership shying away from combative personalities?  
nzyme : 11/8/2019 12:57 pm : link
I don't know about you guys but McAdoo and Shurmur are both guys who strike me as non-combative or passive. These are the kind of people that won't rub the ownership the wrong way or disagree with them.

Juxtapose those type of personalities with that of people like Parcells and Coughlin. These are coaches will disagree with you if they think it's wrong and lay down the law with their players.

I just don't get that feeling with Shurmur and neither do most other fans which is why there is this feeling he's not the guy to move this franchise forward.

Give me a defensive coach who's not afraid to tell ownership when their wrong.
Ed Ellis  
pjcas18 : 11/8/2019 1:12 pm : link
went to my high school (no overlap with me though). He was a great kid and came from an awesome family.

He was friends with my younger brother and used to come over our house and eat every shred of food we had.

I didn't remember these Belichick comments about him, but reading them made me smile remembering him sitting with a chair in front of our refrigerator.
Parcels used to do it all the time  
PatersonPlank : 11/8/2019 3:55 pm : link
That's where Belicheck got it from. To many snowflake coaches today. It just doesn't work.
RE: I ve always believed  
giantstock : 11/9/2019 1:17 am : link
In comment 14668926 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Calling out players was ok, even sometimes smart. But the distain for Shurmur has grown to a point here, as evidenced by the ridicule we read daily, that nothing he does will be seen in a good light, by some.

Guy s fighting to turn their season around, gets tough, as some were suggesting he do, what s the reaction...........too late.

Guy is obviously a very competitive person, or he wouldy be where he is. Fights back against a question suggesting he might not be up to this challenge by saying, “I was born for this”. ..... gets compared to MacAdoo.

Hard to defend 7-18, so I won’t, but I would love for this guy to stick it in the face of his critics by turning this thing around



I'll never understand posters such as yourself but respect you and some others that are optimists without an attitude. With that said, why do you make it a point to give a hit what the media says? The media has people like you so psyched out.

Why "throwing it int he face of the media" is even 1% important to posters like you to me is just mind-boggling. It's all about the team performance. Why the fuck some of you give the media any thought of importance while the GMEN suck is just so freaking weird and silly.
Doesn't Belichick  
mdc1 : 11/9/2019 3:38 pm : link
just release players that are not getting it done, like they do in the real world?

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