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Morning career discussion: You take Eli or Rivers?

Beezer : 11/8/2019 9:38 am
The guys filling in for Dan Patrick this morning have this as their poll question. Iím blown away by people calling in to say if they could take one career or the other, theyíd take Riversí body of work.

One guy even summed it up this way: California, nine babies, and infinite wealth.

Really?

What about two championship MVPs on top of the two rings. NYC, three babies and infinite wealth? (With which you can vacation in California, or anywhere. Hell, everywhere!)

It seems a silly question and not only because Iím a Giants Fam and have enjoyed this era of Eli. Itís just an easy pick because isnít the whole point of this for players to win the big one? Eli did it twice, while Rivers has failed to play in one.
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I don't get it  
Bruner4329 : 11/8/2019 1:30 pm : link
Rivers has had a very good career but he has come up short a lot. His shining moment was playing with a bad knee in the AFC playoffs. I don't watch Charger games that often but at times he often makes a bad play in clutch time. Just like last night. Down 2 with 50 something seconds to go and he throws that dumb interception. Have seen that a few times with this guy. If I am not mistaken how many comeback wins in the last few minutes has Eli had in his career? I thought it was quite a few and could have been a lot more over the last 2-3 years if we had any semblance of a defense.
RE: can you imagine Tomlinson and Gates  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14669372 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
on the Giants with Eli, all in their primes?

Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.


team talent bro.

Can you imagine Rivers with Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Pierce, Antrelle Rolle, Cofield

You can't argue that Eli has had better defenses over the years than Rivers.
RE: RE: RE: ....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14669401 riceneggs said:
Quote:
In comment 14669320 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:


Quote:


Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers




Haha, riiiiight. Didnít rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? Heís also had some damn good receivers.



I am speaking more about ďteamĒ talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But theyíve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?

Letís not act like our defense didnít win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.



For example, hereís the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 Ė 32nd
2011 Ė 17th
2012 Ė 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th


And Manning's:

2010 - 17th
2011 - 25th
2012 - 12th
2013 - 18th
2014 - 22nd
2015 - 30th
2016 - 2nd
2017 - 27th
2018 - 23rd

Explain to me how Manning had "better" defenses?
I challenge you to go look up  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 1:33 pm : link
the Giants ranks during that timespan as well.

Also I don't know what you are going off of. Chargers ranked in the top 10 in both yards and points allowed so far in 2019, 2018, 2010, and 2006. And a few other years where one or the other was top 10.

The Giants - 2 years ranked top 10 in both, 2008 and 2016. The idea that the Giants had a historically better defense during the 2 QB's tenures just isn't true. And what happens in the season doesn't correlate to the playoffs anyway. The Giants defense stepped up during their 2 SB wins, they weren't some all time great defense those 2 seasons.
Current Chargers Defensive Rank: 9th  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:36 pm : link
Current Giants Defensive Rank: 29th
RE: ....  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers


You have this exactly backwards. Congrats.
More like franksnbeans.  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:42 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14669387 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:

Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.

2012 to now has been a disaster.


I agree to a point, but not with 2011. That team had a ton of holes. A badly aging OL, Bradshaw couldn't stay healthy, and the D was brutally bad. WR corps was outstanding, though. They and Eli carried the team that year.
And to those who say Eil didn't do anything after 2011,  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 1:52 pm : link
well maybe the team didn't, but you could argue that his 2 best seasons were '14 and '15, when he threw for 9,000 yds and 65 TD's.
There is some rampant stupid on this thread.  
Mike from Ohio : 11/8/2019 2:10 pm : link
Why would anyone who plays football prefer a career with no championship to two? If living in California is way better to you than living in NY/NJ so be it. That is a better location, not a better career.

Who had a better career is not the same as who was a better QB. Championships don't factor into that because there are too many other variables. The example of Marino proves the point. He is inarguably a better QB than Manning, but has no championships.

The question was whose career would you take, not who is better. The answer to the second question is not as clear cut.
When  
Les in TO : 11/8/2019 2:15 pm : link
They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs



RE: When  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14669466 Les in TO said:
Quote:
They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs




RE: RE: RE: RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14669434 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669387 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:



Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.

2012 to now has been a disaster.



I agree to a point, but not with 2011. That team had a ton of holes. A badly aging OL, Bradshaw couldn't stay healthy, and the D was brutally bad. WR corps was outstanding, though. They and Eli carried the team that year.


Fair enough. But the guy was trying to say Eli had no talent around him from 2005-2011. Like, come on. We had plenty of good players and a great OL in that time period. Those were good teams. Not great, but good. This era of teams since 2012 have been shit, no doubt. There is a difference.
RE: When  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14669466 Les in TO said:
Quote:
They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs




Rivers is haunted by two playoff games.

In 2006, they were a great team. But the Pats waltzed into San Diego and literally stole that game. It was just a classic playoff game coached by the Marty Schottenheimer. Just some very wacky plays. And it extended his playoff curse...

Then the next year they got hot in the playoffs and took down the Titans and Manning and the Colts in Indy. Unfortunately, Tomlinson hurt his knee in that Colts game and he was basically ineffective in the AFC Chmp game in New England. And that was a killer. NE was undefeated and did not play well at all that game. Brady was very mediocre.

So I would have loved to see the Chargers with a healthy Tomlinson that game. Turner and Sproles combined aren't Tomlinson...
Parsing the language in the question  
jhibb : 11/8/2019 2:32 pm : link
"Who is the better QB?" Debatable.
"Who has had the better career?" Debatable.
"Whose career would you rather have had?" I don't see how anyone who has ever played a team sport in their life could choose Rivers' over Manning's.

I mean, in this comparison, it's not just about being on two super bowl winning teams, but also being absolutely instrumental in those wins and the seasons leading up to them.
Eli, didn't even have to think about it.  
truebluelarry : 11/8/2019 2:32 pm : link
Two Super Bowl titles trumps everything.

Stats are for losers, show me the hardware.

Flags fly forever  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/8/2019 2:41 pm : link
you remember the players who won championships
If I am going back in time  
Payasdaddy : 11/8/2019 2:56 pm : link
1) crucifixion thru resurrection
Not getting religious here. And not really wanting to watch it obviously
But to see what really happened. Is he dead, did he rise, walk on water etc.
gotta be on top of list
2) 65 million hrs ago. Asteroid hitting earth. Be crazy to watch from afar
3) aliens helping to build pyramids
4). Where Bigfoot hides ?
5) of course killing hitler. Thatís a gimme
Feels like offseason. Sad!
RE: If I am going back in time  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14669524 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
1) crucifixion thru resurrection
Not getting religious here. And not really wanting to watch it obviously
But to see what really happened. Is he dead, did he rise, walk on water etc.
gotta be on top of list
2) 65 million hrs ago. Asteroid hitting earth. Be crazy to watch from afar
3) aliens helping to build pyramids
4). Where Bigfoot hides ?
5) of course killing hitler. Thatís a gimme
Feels like offseason. Sad!


bruh, what?
If you even have to think about it  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/8/2019 3:43 pm : link
you are the wrong kind of fan.

It's all about winning. The 2 Championships trump anything Rivers has done.

Fuck stats. Win.
Rocco8112....  
rmc3981 : 11/8/2019 3:59 pm : link
said it best and couldn't agree more. In addition, Eli wins a third SB if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself.
RE: Rocco8112....  
LAXin : 11/8/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14669638 rmc3981 said:
Quote:
said it best and couldn't agree more. In addition, Eli wins a third SB if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself.


Another big factor in 2008 was losing Osi in the pre-season. He and Plax were two Eagles killers.

But I think it was far-stretched, fantasy even, to say if one particular play was made, or if one particular player was available, the Giants would have won 3 consecutive post-season games, whereas in reality they failed to win even one -- in addition to 2008, it has been suggested in BBI that in 1989, if only Flipper Anderson didn't catch that TD in over time, "the Giants could/would have gone on to win it all", and that in 1988, if only we didn't let that win slip away against 49ers or the Jets, "the Giants could/would have gone on to win it all!" Come on, man.
I'd take Rivers  
Chocco : 11/8/2019 6:31 pm : link
Then trade him for Eli
Why are they counting his 9 babies as part of his "career" anyway?  
Leg of Theismann : 11/8/2019 7:15 pm : link
Who the hell wants 9 babies?
RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
Mendenhall64 : 11/8/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.
In hindsight ...  
Beer Man : 11/8/2019 9:26 pm : link
I believe Rivers could have been just as successful in NY. But it means nothing. Eli was the man, and the Giants have two SB Championships to show for it.
Easily Eli  
giantstock : 11/8/2019 9:27 pm : link
The posters lawguy and riceneggs easily exposed on here. Peter Rosenberg on Michale Kaye's show imo also said an incredibly stupid thing on this subject a while back too.
RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14669812 Mendenhall64 said:
Quote:


Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.


I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.

And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.

RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
Mendenhall64 : 11/8/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14669889 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669812 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:




Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.



I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.

And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.

And there's the guy calling Eli the most overrated QB in history. The Eli who's being bashed to hell in this same thread. Can you answer the question posed? Whose career would you rather have?
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
giantstock : 11/8/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14669889 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669812 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:




Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.



I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.

And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.


Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.

It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.

even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.

RE: The whole point of sports is to win.  
mrvax : 11/8/2019 11:13 pm : link
In comment 14669041 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Eli 2, Philip 0. And I bet Rivers would rather have Eli's rings than any personal career accomplishments.


Any counter points to this fact are petty, IMO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:17 am : link
In comment 14669932 giantstock said:
Quote:

Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.

It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.

even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.


I agree Eli has been more prolific than Rivers in post-season.

In the regular season, it's a different story. Rivers has been the better player. He has more TD passes, a better TD/INT ratio, 53 less INTs, almost 5% higher completion %, superior regular season record, much better passer rating and QBR.

The only category Eli has ever led the league in anything is INTs, and 3X.

Meanwhile, Rivers has led the league at one time in TD passes, passing yardage, completion %, completions, YPA (3X). And in 10 of his 13 seasons as a starter, he's had a winning season.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
giantstock : 11/9/2019 1:22 am : link
In comment 14669964 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669932 giantstock said:


Quote:



Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.

It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.

even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.




I agree Eli has been more prolific than Rivers in post-season.

In the regular season, it's a different story. Rivers has been the better player. He has more TD passes, a better TD/INT ratio, 53 less INTs, almost 5% higher completion %, superior regular season record, much better passer rating and QBR.

The only category Eli has ever led the league in anything is INTs, and 3X.

Meanwhile, Rivers has led the league at one time in TD passes, passing yardage, completion %, completions, YPA (3X). And in 10 of his 13 seasons as a starter, he's had a winning season.


If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.

What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.
Holy shit, you have a two time SB MVP  
montanagiant : 11/9/2019 1:27 am : link
That beat what is determined to be the team that was the best ever twice and you seriously have to think that Rivers would have done better?

LMAO!!!
I always found Rivers to be extremely overrated..  
Sean : 11/9/2019 8:03 am : link
I donít believe heís ever beaten the Pats in his career. Where are the big wins? I never recall a moment where he came up big & won a big game.

Rivers still gets praise for playing with a torn ACL against NE in the 2007 playoffs. Funny how no one mentions the beating Eli took in SF.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
NINEster : 11/9/2019 11:38 am : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


This is how it appears on a national level. As the years go by, those two runs become a more and more distant memory, and the narrative is that the defense won those games.

The more hardcore fans would say that Rivers was a better regular season QB and Eli the better postseason QB. I'm not sure I've seen Rivers in an AFC Championship game more than once.

The evidence is there and hard to dispute.

It's a tough question to answer as far as better career because Eli is finishing .500 overall while his two '04 counterparts are in the .625-.650 range, with comparable passing stats. The two SBs are as good as two SBs can be, which probably irks Rivers. At the same time, has Eli truly been respected properly for it?

Another thing, franchises count too. The Chargers have largely been a snake bitten franchise going back to the Fouts days. You wonder if Brees as good as he is (and he's better than Rivers) could have gotten the Chargers to a Super Bowl -- in theory he should have, but it's a fair question given the circumstance.

The Giants have not been a snake bitten franchise, and the Steelers definitely have not.

That's why Roethlisberger is pretty lucky to be where he's at. The most consistently good franchise of the three, and a market that has largely been able to deal and squash his off the field issues between the motorcycle accident and sexual misconduct. On a pure football basis, he's the winner here, but the baggage might asterisk it overall.

RE: RE: When  
NINEster : 11/9/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14669479 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669466 Les in TO said:


Quote:


They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs






Rivers is haunted by two playoff games.

In 2006, they were a great team. But the Pats waltzed into San Diego and literally stole that game. It was just a classic playoff game coached by the Marty Schottenheimer. Just some very wacky plays. And it extended his playoff curse...

Then the next year they got hot in the playoffs and took down the Titans and Manning and the Colts in Indy. Unfortunately, Tomlinson hurt his knee in that Colts game and he was basically ineffective in the AFC Chmp game in New England. And that was a killer. NE was undefeated and did not play well at all that game. Brady was very mediocre.

So I would have loved to see the Chargers with a healthy Tomlinson that game. Turner and Sproles combined aren't Tomlinson...


Is the 2006 game the one where Brady threw a redzone pick late in the game that was immediately fumbled and they regained possession?

I remember that moment well feeling like the Chargers had won and lost that game in a matter of seconds.
I think they both get to the Hall of Fame  
joeinpa : 11/9/2019 11:49 am : link
But for me right or wrong, Championships mean an awful lot.

I d prefer Eli s career and it s not really close.
RE: RE: RE: When  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14670138 NINEster said:
Quote:

Is the 2006 game the one where Brady threw a redzone pick late in the game that was immediately fumbled and they regained possession?

I remember that moment well feeling like the Chargers had won and lost that game in a matter of seconds.


It may have been in the redzone. Chargers were up by at least a TD with about 5 minutes to go in the 4th. Pats had the ball and were indeed driving. San Diego DB picked off a Brady pass but Troy Brown stripped the ball back and I think Reche Caldwell recovered it. And in typical Patriot fashion, the Pats scored off that enormous mistake...

Crushing play.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14669971 giantstock said:
Quote:

If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.

What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.


I don't think Eli's 232 regular game or Rivers's 218 are irrelevant. That's a tremendous sample size. An NFL season is only 16 games and nearly every one of those games, as you know, is critical.

Again, I have no problem giving Eli the nod with his playoff resume. But I'm not just going to summarily dismiss over the 200+ games each has played in the regular season. That chunk of games tells a significant story about each one of these players.

Let me add this as well. Playing in the AFC has also been some bad timing for Rivers. Having to deal with 12+ years of Brady, Manning, and Roeth is a very big deal.
LAXin  
rmc3981 : 11/9/2019 12:52 pm : link
Point taken.. I should have said "may have won" :)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
giantstock : 11/9/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14670193 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669971 giantstock said:


Quote:



If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.

What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.



I don't think Eli's 232 regular game or Rivers's 218 are irrelevant. That's a tremendous sample size. An NFL season is only 16 games and nearly every one of those games, as you know, is critical.

Again, I have no problem giving Eli the nod with his playoff resume. But I'm not just going to summarily dismiss over the 200+ games each has played in the regular season. That chunk of games tells a significant story about each one of these players.

Let me add this as well. Playing in the AFC has also been some bad timing for Rivers. Having to deal with 12+ years of Brady, Manning, and Roeth is a very big deal.


We are speaking symantics. "Summarily dismissing" is the phrase I feel irrelevant. The fact you say you have no problem giving eli the nod teals me we're on the same page. Eli's an A- student with a 90 grade while Rivers is 89 or 88 while he is close-- the playoff performance of Eli makes him the easy choice just as you look at which student is better - one who has a 90 score or the other who has an 88 or 89 score. This isn't both qb's close in both reg seaosn and playoffs.

As far as you say what is a big deal-- Eli's record vs NE is much better than Rivers record vs NE. ANd if you count the playoffs it is far superior. You can;t be telling me "how tough Rivers had it" while Eli beat the guy that you are mentioning was touhg on Rivers.
Forget MVP's X 2 & 2 Super Bowls  
Alex_Webster : 11/9/2019 3:47 pm : link
2 things that seal it for me, San Fran & Green Bay. Watch those games.

ELI=Bad Ass
Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
GeofromNJ : 11/9/2019 6:23 pm : link
available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.
RE: Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
an_idol_mind : 11/9/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14670440 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.


Yep. Ben's multiple sexual assault charges would have worked out great with the New York media.
RE: RE: Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
GeofromNJ : 11/9/2019 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14670458 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
In comment 14670440 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.



Yep. Ben's multiple sexual assault charges would have worked out great with the New York media.

An irrelevant comment if I ever read one.
P:erception..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/9/2019 10:11 pm : link
is always a funny thing. You heard it here all the time about how Eli came up short the last decade and last year you had a couple of posters who regularly bash Eli talking about Rivers having a MVP-type season while Eli was heading out the door.

And yet, people bring up consistency with Rivers. What isn't often mentioned, and not even brought up in this thread - The Chargers haven;t won the division since 2009 and went a stretch of 8 years with making the playoffs one time.

When the Giants do that with Eli at the helm, he's cooked and the major problem with the team. When Rivers does that, he's rarely looked at as the problem. I'd ask why that is, but it should be apparent to most what crowd here takes that view, and that makes it readily apparent "why" that path is taken.
RE: Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
montanagiant : 11/9/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14670440 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.

Yeah a sexual predetor would have worked really well in NYC...My God this asinine
Rivers didnít play well in 07 Championship Game  
twostepgiants : 11/10/2019 8:55 am : link
He was 19 of 37 for 211 yards and 2 INT and his offense scored 12 pts.


Yes he was hurt and he it was ďgutsyĒ or whatever you want to call it but the simple fact is Rivers did not play well in this game.

The SD defense did. They forced 3 Brady INTs and sacked him 3 times but the SD couldnít deliver TDs.

So give him credit for playing when he was very injured but this is no Michael Jordan flu game.
This is no contest to me  
twostepgiants : 11/10/2019 9:07 am : link
Eli Manning had the far greater career, He is a 2 time Super Bowl Champion and 2 time Super Bowl MVP and 2-time Belichick and Brady slayer.

He has the greatest play in Super Bowl in history and is now 1 of just 2 QBs to deliver a game winning SB TD Drive and he did it twice.

He had 2 of the greatest playoff runs of all time and won legendary championship games in Green Bay Ice Bowl and San Francisco.

He has an Iron Man streak, will finish top 10 all time in yards and TDs and will be in the Giants Ring of Honor the millisecond he retires. giants fans will forever wear his jersey,

Philip Rivers will honestly barely be remembered, will anyone even care about his career?

The franchise left San Diego. He was mostly done by the time he arrived in Los Angeles so no one will remember or care about that, I doubt those fans will reminisce about his San Diego Days,

And what would they reminisce about anyways? Dropping a playoff game as a 15-1 top seed? The day he played hurt in a playoff game but still didnít play well?

If the Chargers have a Ring of Honor or such, will it even matter as the fans likely donít care as its different cities.

He has some very nice career stats and individual seasons but they didnít amount to anything for his team and city.

Eli currently still has more yards and they have similar career TDs. Those are the big stats so ultimately the career stats will be comparable.

Itís not like Rivers had a Marino career where he delivered MVPs and all time records.

No one will be rocking Philip Rivers jerseys a few years after he retires. Eli is forever in NY.
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