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Morning career discussion: You take Eli or Rivers?

Beezer : 11/8/2019 9:38 am
The guys filling in for Dan Patrick this morning have this as their poll question. Iím blown away by people calling in to say if they could take one career or the other, theyíd take Riversí body of work.

One guy even summed it up this way: California, nine babies, and infinite wealth.

Really?

What about two championship MVPs on top of the two rings. NYC, three babies and infinite wealth? (With which you can vacation in California, or anywhere. Hell, everywhere!)

It seems a silly question and not only because Iím a Giants Fam and have enjoyed this era of Eli. Itís just an easy pick because isnít the whole point of this for players to win the big one? Eli did it twice, while Rivers has failed to play in one.
The whole point of sports is to win.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2019 9:40 am : link
Eli 2, Philip 0. And I bet Rivers would rather have Eli's rings than any personal career accomplishments.
Not even a discussion..  
Sean : 11/8/2019 9:42 am : link
Eli.
Eli's career  
Chris684 : 11/8/2019 9:42 am : link
..
What's funny is....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 9:45 am : link
what accomplishments does Rivers have that Eli doesn't, really?

Yeah, okay.... He has more wins. Great. Let's say the Football is a team game. You could say Eli's 2 Superbowl's outweigh Rivers' regular season wins but for this argument let's call it a wash.

They're both top ten all time in statistical categories like passing yards and TD's.

Yeah, Eli threw more picks, but is only 15th all time. Rivers is 35th all time so it's not some great divide.

Ben is right in the mix, too.

These three QB's are all in the top 10 all times in major statistical categories, and all have been major parts of the story of the NFL in the past 15 years. MAJOR parts.

The only other QB class that is even comparable is 1983 and they are all in.

IMO, if one of them is in, all of them are in. That's the story.
The  
Les in TO : 11/8/2019 9:45 am : link
Comparison of babies and locations made it seem like it was which life youíd rather have not career

And with nine babies to feed clothe board educate and entertain Rivers is going to have to do a lot of post career endorsement work to maintain that wealth
Are they going to say Rivers is an Iron Man?  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 9:46 am : link
Well, so is Eli.

Giants fandom aside  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 9:46 am : link
I donít see how anyone can chose Riversí career over Eliís. Elis 2 playoff runs will forever be remembered throughout the history of the game. No one will remember Riversí almost SB birth.

And if we are talking money, Eli has that over Rivers as well. Also plays in an infinitely better city.

It isnt remotely close. And fuck off with 9 kids.
Yea, the whole 9 kids thing...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2019 9:47 am : link
Should we applaud him for that? I only have 1 so far & the thought of 8 more...(banging head on desk).
caller  
jestersdead : 11/8/2019 9:48 am : link
why would the caller cite having 9 kids as a positive? 9 kids is going to cost more money than 4 kids. Plus, Im pretty sure Eli has made more off the field than Rivers. Only advantage Rivers has is playing in Southern California and a market that barely knows they exist.

I lived in SD from 2003-2010, the, Chargers used to get blacked on b/c they couldn't sell enough tickets. When the Giants played there for their first time, the Chargers made you buy a bulk NFC East opponent package as that was their only hope of selling tickets.

2 Super Bowls and 2 SB MVPs outweighs any regular season success Rivers has had
Tony Romo had a lot of regular season wins too.  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 9:50 am : link
Is he a HOF'er?
Hilarious question.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2019 9:50 am : link
Thereís absolutely no comparison, and deep down even Rivers knows heíd take Eliís career.
I don't see much of a case for Rivers there.  
bigbluehoya : 11/8/2019 9:52 am : link
The more interesting one is Eli vs Ben, most especially if you ring-fence it to football / on-field stuff.
A lot of blinded homers here  
lawguy9801 : 11/8/2019 9:54 am : link
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2019 9:56 am : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


I think the ? is, if I'm reading it correctly, whose career would you rather, not who is better.
Yeah, blinded homers....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 9:56 am : link
and what does Rivers have to show for that at the end of the day?

9 kids, and what else?
Football wise  
section125 : 11/8/2019 9:57 am : link
is there a comparison?

Eli has two rings, Rivers never got to the SB.

California as a plus? 13.5% income tax...Beautiful state, full of wacky people, weird ideas and rampant natural disasters.....(It truly is a beautiful place when it is not burning or mud sliding)

As far as 4 or 9 kids, neither have to worry about paying for them. But River's wife must be ready to cut that thing off by now[j/k].
Rivers threw high all night long last evening  
Jimmy Googs : 11/8/2019 9:58 am : link
and didn't help my fantasy team whatsoever as my normal starting QB had a bye.

So with that said screw him...I take Eli!
How is this even a question  
ZogZerg : 11/8/2019 9:59 am : link
A bunch know nothing clowns must be asking.

Rivers BLEW his chances of winning the ring. Chargers had a number of good teams to do it with, but he couldn't beat the GOAT.

Eli could.

End of discussion.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


Maybe he did, and that's one of the few notches in River's belt. But are you taking a consistent career in San Diego where you're luck to not get your game blacked out to hoisting 2 Lombardi's for New York City, all while being in or around the top 10 in every major statistical category for the position?

He's also got more money and less kids (a good thing in my book). And if he wants to move to sunny San Diego, he can do that.
If we're going back it time...  
BamaBlue : 11/8/2019 10:00 am : link
I'm killing Hitler and investing in Microsoft Stock, not picking the Giants quarterback.

Maybe... just maybe, both guys are great NFL quarterbacks and the separation between the two comes down to what you think about their performance over the recent (last 5 years) past?
"Eli face," immobility, the stupid backwards shoulder roll after  
lawguy9801 : 11/8/2019 10:02 am : link
another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.
You have to count the playoffs and SBs  
cjac : 11/8/2019 10:03 am : link
but if you're just looking at numbers Rivers was the better QB. None of that matters without championships, but Rivers was better.

You have to admit, there was a lot of ugly with Eli.

When all is said and done, they'll both be in the Hall of Fame.
RE:  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.


This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.
Lawguy  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2019 10:04 am : link
He is a 2X Super Bowl champion. You're not going to recall his time here fondly? Come on man.
And if anything "isn't close,"  
lawguy9801 : 11/8/2019 10:04 am : link
it's a comparison of San Diego (basically paradise on earth in the lower 48 states) vs NYC.
Now go ahead and tell me that there aren't Giants fans....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:06 am : link
that despise Eli and always have. Go ahead.
RE: Lawguy  
lawguy9801 : 11/8/2019 10:06 am : link
In comment 14669087 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He is a 2X Super Bowl champion. You're not going to recall his time here fondly? Come on man.


I'll recall the 2007 and 2011 playoffs fondly. The 2011 playoffs were the pinnacle of his career. But he did nothing after that.
RE: And if anything  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14669090 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
it's a comparison of San Diego (basically paradise on earth in the lower 48 states) vs NYC.


We're talking about playing football. San Diego was such a football paradise that the Chargers moved to.... LA.
When ever you see these debates about Rivers/Eli/Ben  
figgy2989 : 11/8/2019 10:07 am : link
I always think, if it were Rivers or Ben who had been the Giants QB since 2004, do we still have 2 SB victories?

Not only those 2 SB victories, but handling all that comes with being a QB in NY. My answer is always no.

RE: RE:  
lawguy9801 : 11/8/2019 10:08 am : link
In comment 14669085 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.



This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.


This is the take of basically every NFL fan who is not a Giants homer.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
figgy2989 : 11/8/2019 10:10 am : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


Just a terrible take here.
and it's certainly a blazing hot take.  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:10 am : link
.
I'll take the guy who proved he could win the big game.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2019 10:11 am : link
You can take the "body of work".
RE: I'll take the guy who proved he could win the big game.  
figgy2989 : 11/8/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14669105 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
You can take the "body of work".


RE: The whole point of sports is to win.  
Fort Mill Mike : 11/8/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14669041 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Eli 2, Philip 0. And I bet Rivers would rather have Eli's rings than any personal career accomplishments.


Has Rivers ever even a playoff game?
RE: And if anything  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14669090 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
it's a comparison of San Diego (basically paradise on earth in the lower 48 states) vs NYC.


So how's playing in an empty stadium and it being blacked out locally?

I have no idea what your issue is but you really aren't making any sense. And people don't choose to live in NYC because of the weather, did you really not know that?
and I'd say doing this "poll"  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 10:27 am : link
makes a lot more sense for Eli vs. Ben. It doesn't make any sense with Rivers, his career is a distant 3rd to the other 2 (and I fucking hate Roethlisberger).
RE:  
Giants in 07 : 11/8/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.


Imagine being this miserable of a person
RE: RE: The whole point of sports is to win.  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14669130 Fort Mill Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 14669041 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Eli 2, Philip 0. And I bet Rivers would rather have Eli's rings than any personal career accomplishments.



Has Rivers ever even a playoff game?


Manning has been to the playoffs 6 times. He is 8-4

Rivers has been to the playoffs 6 times. He is 5-6
you don't have to imagine it  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 10:30 am : link
just read BBI daily and you will be reminded how miserable much of this board is.
2 super bowl MVPís  
Giant John : 11/8/2019 10:35 am : link
Settle the case for me. And itís not close.
RE: you don't have to imagine it  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14669141 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
just read BBI daily and you will be reminded how miserable much of this board is.


I really can't fathom a Giants fan saying to themselves, 'Ya know... 2 Super Bowls aside, I don't look back fondly on the Eli era.'

I just, uh, don't get it.
Eli  
rocco8112 : 11/8/2019 10:40 am : link
All of the big three from 2004 became franchise guys.

Eli is my guy, faced the best and won, carried the mail in the big city for a decade plus, two of the greatest plays/drives in Super Bowl history, class act all the way, face of the franchise, unreal durability, simply the best.

He made all his targets better, Smith was an all pro before being hurt, Boss and Ballard, he helped make Cruz a fucking champion and superstar, Manningham immortalized on NFL films and losing players who never sniffed a roster after leaving the Giants,like Reuben Randle,were productive with Eli. Beckham's career is in full nose dive now, think he can wake up from the haze of narcissm to realize the role Eli played in helping him reach his dream of being internet famous? Mayfield is on the train to bustville and looks lost and inaccurate? The Browns would kill to have Mayfield end up half as good and consistently productive as Easy-E.

It's not so easy to play QB week after week, year after year.

Watching San Diego last night and seeing how the Giants are still hot garbage despite kicking the king of lightning rods to the curb, makes me think Eli can still play.

Once Eli became a big boy in the league the Giants offenses produced season after season. Once tweedle dumb became coach in 2016 ( based on an OC career carried by Eli), the offense cratered. The Offense last year even started to improve with Eli at the helm. Eli's biggest issue is he was not good enough anymore to hoist a broken roster on his back and carry two consecutive incompetent head coaches, so the losses piled up. Eli also never got hurt so he was out there for the good, bad and the ugly.

Eli had two careers here, he was consisent, productive and available for them all. As the team collapsed around him and the front office scapegoated a HoF coach for two losers, Eli's record went south.

Eli should be be a stone cold lock for the Hall of Fame, Rivers has a case too, but give me Eli.
RE: RE:  
rocco8112 : 11/8/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14669138 Giants in 07 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.



Imagine being this miserable of a person


I hope Jones has a career as average as you describe Eli's
RE: Football wise  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/8/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14669069 section125 said:
Quote:
is there a comparison?

Eli has two rings, Rivers never got to the SB.

California as a plus? 13.5% income tax...Beautiful state, full of wacky people, weird ideas and rampant natural disasters.....(It truly is a beautiful place when it is not burning or mud sliding)

As far as 4 or 9 kids, neither have to worry about paying for them. But River's wife must be ready to cut that thing off by now[j/k].


Doesn't NYC have a high income tax as well? And people live in NY because they have to, its where many of the high paying jobs are. California is somewhere where way more people would actually choose to live if money wasn't an issue.
You could argue that in good weather, with different teammates  
CT Charlie : 11/8/2019 10:44 am : link
and different coaching in the latter stage of his career, Eli would have had comparable year-to-year stats to Ben's. But it's hard to argue that Ben (or many QB's, really) could accomplish what Eli did on those historic underdog-beats-top-dog championship runs that Eli had. Sure, our dominant defenses were HUGE, but Eli's clutch play on the road and in the cold will be matched by few QB's ever, and should be celebrated by true fans of the game.
Vis a vis Big Ben...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/8/2019 10:48 am : link
I'm convinced that if we drafted him, knowing his past off the field lifestyle, he'd be in year 10 or so of a long jail sentence.
There was a reason  
joeinpa : 11/8/2019 10:49 am : link
Archie wouldnít allow Eli to go to San Diego
RE: Vis a vis Big Ben...  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14669165 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I'm convinced that if we drafted him, knowing his past off the field lifestyle, he'd be in year 10 or so of a long jail sentence.


I think of that too. Maybe not jail but I don't see him doing well in NY. That rape thing would have buried him here. I could also see him clashing with Coughlin. He ended up in the perfect spot.
RE:  
Chris684 : 11/8/2019 10:56 am : link
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.


There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.

I find it so weird.
RE: There was a reason  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14669166 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Archie wouldnít allow Eli to go to San Diego


This reminds me... Remember for years how much we heard on BBI how Ernie got taken to the cleaners by Smith? Just a total fleecing?

The names Merriman and Kaeding were trumpeted ad nausium for years.

How's that fleecing looking with a little historical perspective?
If what they're asking  
Gman11 : 11/8/2019 11:02 am : link
is what career would I take ...

Well, without looking it up, Rivers probably has the better regular season stats. He probably has less non-winning seasons.

Still, the name of the game is to win a championship. If I could be the MVP of the biggest game in sports and do it twice all the rest is just window dressing.
Eli without question  
Go Terps : 11/8/2019 11:11 am : link
I have fond memories of watching Eli make miracles to win two Super Bowls. What memories do Charger fans have? Their fucking team left the city under Rivers's watch.
RE: RE: RE:  
gmenatlarge : 11/8/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14669100 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669085 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.



This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.



This is the take of basically every NFL fan who is not a Giants homer.


I call total BS on that one, how many franchises and their fans out there would have liked to have TWO SBs from their franchise QB, pretty much ALL of them save NE!
100% Eli  
AcesUp : 11/8/2019 11:22 am : link
They're comparable players over the length of their careers but I don't see why any Giants fan would make that swap. Ben is a little trickier for some people, because objectively speaking, he was the better QB. Subjectively speaking, he comes off as a dirtbag and is probably a rapist. So I still take Eli ten time out of ten over him.
RE: Tony Romo had a lot of regular season wins too.  
trueblueinpw : 11/8/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14669056 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Is he a HOF'er?


Funny you mention Romo b/c was talking this morning at work about how Rivers and Romo seem like theyíve had similar types of NFL careers. Both played the position at a high level, face of the franchise, Romo wasnít as durable as Rivers has been. Neither had much success in the post season. I think Rivers is the better of the two. Romo is a hard no for the HoF. Rivers is more of a ďmaybeĒ but still a no.
Eli in a heartbeat  
Torrag : 11/8/2019 11:30 am : link
Built for NY and was always clutch unlike Rivers.
RE: RE:  
gmenatlarge : 11/8/2019 11:32 am : link
In comment 14669171 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.



There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.

I find it so weird.

It's not just weird it's moronic, people who just look at stats and not see the greatness of someone who could "elevate" their game when the situation called for it. As for the Tiki comment, that is just laughable, remember when he made that on the way out after he retired and what happens after that, only one of the greatest playoff runs of all time. So who's more "comical" in that situation the guy who retires early to go be a broadcaster or the guy who actually leads his team TO A CHAMPIONSHIP. As for the Parcells comment he was talking about seasonal records, you're talking career where Eli's career says TWO-TIME SB CHAMPION! I'LL TAKE THAT SHIT OVER rIVERS EVERY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS!!! (RANT OVER)
Shortly after that "comical" remark by Tiki in 2007.....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 11:36 am : link
Here's what he was up to:
and then shortly after that....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 11:37 am : link
I favor Eli but, in 2020, Rivers will still have a chance to improve  
Ivan15 : 11/8/2019 11:39 am : link
his stats and win a Super Bowl. Probably not Eli.

It is irrelevant to the topic but anyone who thinks having 9 kids is a plus is nuts.
My Dad- Jets fan and Father in law- Cowboys fan  
Chris684 : 11/8/2019 11:52 am : link
talk about Eli's career with more respect than most NYG fans I read here.

There is something very weird about this fanbase that I think is specific to just NYG fans. I actually believe Nick Foles is far more revered by Eagles fans that Eli is by Giants fans.

Tom Coughlin is often mocked and has his accomplishments here minimized as well.

Very ungrateful bunch.
Two rings beats suckhole California anytime.  
Red Dog : 11/8/2019 11:56 am : link
.
RE: RE: Tony Romo had a lot of regular season wins too.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14669221 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 14669056 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Is he a HOF'er?



Funny you mention Romo b/c was talking this morning at work about how Rivers and Romo seem like theyíve had similar types of NFL careers. Both played the position at a high level, face of the franchise, Romo wasnít as durable as Rivers has been. Neither had much success in the post season. I think Rivers is the better of the two. Romo is a hard no for the HoF. Rivers is more of a ďmaybeĒ but still a no.


I heard Darren Woodson on the radio (I think) talk about the difference between Tony Romo and Dak Prescott. He said it was undeniable that Tony was the better QB (statistically and as a thrower of the ball). However, the difference between the two is that the locker room of the Cowboys believed almost unanimously that in a big spot of a big game, that Dak would get the job done whereas they didn't believe in Tony like that.

There's something to that belief in a QB. That's why I would choose Eli over Rivers 6 times a week and twice on Sunday. Some guys are just capable of elevating their play. I think Francesa said that the other day when comparing Eli to Peyton. He said Peyton was the best regular season QB he'd ever seen, but Eli elevated his game in big spots while Peyton didn't for the most part.
Prove to me that ANY QB...  
x meadowlander : 11/8/2019 12:05 pm : link
...would make it through the gauntlet that Eli has. Both 07' and 11' were won with subpar teams with insane road paths to both Lombardi's and Eli somehow managed his Iron Man run behind some of the shittiest offensive lines ever to wear blue.

Rivers would have spent a quarter of his career on IR, so would nearly every other QB in the league had they played behind James Brewer, Ereck Flowers, John Jerry and the rest of the rogues gallery.

I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.

Since Coughlin was hired ONLY 2008 was a dominant team.
eli did more with less  
Platos : 11/8/2019 12:07 pm : link
you want to talk about perennial contenders falling short? CHargers had squads for years. LDT, Gates, success with WRs who didn't have career ending ailments. defenses that people feared.

Eli had snippets of that and never all in one season. the common denominator in all those failed chargers seasons? Rivers.

guy would go out there in a walking boot to play in the playoffs he'd probably have been better off sitting.
RE: Prove to me that ANY QB...  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14669266 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...would make it through the gauntlet that Eli has. Both 07' and 11' were won with subpar teams with insane road paths to both Lombardi's and Eli somehow managed his Iron Man run behind some of the shittiest offensive lines ever to wear blue.

Rivers would have spent a quarter of his career on IR, so would nearly every other QB in the league had they played behind James Brewer, Ereck Flowers, John Jerry and the rest of the rogues gallery.

I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.

Since Coughlin was hired ONLY 2008 was a dominant team.


Manning TWICE beat the #1 and #2 seed ON THE ROAD in the playoffs, before beating the #1 seed in the other conference in the Superbowl.

Twice.

Out of both of those Superbowl runs? 8-0? One home game.
You show me a person that would take Rivers' career over Eli's....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 12:13 pm : link
and I'll show you a loser.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


He played 9 games a year in Cali weather. Sure, he may have been consistently better, except when it mattered.
RE: Prove to me that ANY QB...  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14669266 x meadowlander said:
Quote:


I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.



And here is where the Rubicon is crossed into the Land of the Absurd.

I can list quite a few more, but I suggest you reacquaint yourself with some of the work Elway did early in his career in Denver. He dragged three of the worst teams I have ever seen to the SB.

Eli isn't in the same universe as Elway as a QB.
...  
christian : 11/8/2019 12:25 pm : link
I think Manning is maybe the most overrated athlete of all time, and Rivers vs. Manning isn't even a starting point.
Eli's without a doubt.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2019 12:27 pm : link
But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.
RE: RE:  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14669171 Chris684 said:
Quote:


There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.

I find it so weird.


Yep, so-called Giant fans who can't wait to take a dump on the best QB this franchise has ever known.
RE:  
jhibb : 11/8/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.


Well, the bolded is exactly right, anyway. We could have been Chargers fans.

That's the point.
....  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 12:34 pm : link
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers

This is the most ridiculous  
Oskie : 11/8/2019 12:36 pm : link
thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.
RE: ....  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers


Haha, riiiiight. Didnít rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? Heís also had some damn good receivers.
I have always  
mattyblue : 11/8/2019 12:38 pm : link
felt that Rivers was widely overrated. I think he would never have lasted as a QB here. I would take whatever dopey expression Eli makes over Rivers temper tantrums on the field any day. Career wise it really isnít a contest. Two heroic SB MVPs vs none.
RE: ....  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/8/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
so the opposite is true
I Think The Narrative  
lax counsel : 11/8/2019 12:39 pm : link
That Rivers had a more consistently high performing regular season career is a bit of a fabrication. People forget Eli had some big seasons, even after 2011. The team around him just wasn't very good. I think he had close to 70TD passes between 2014 and 2015.

I do agree he trailed of in 16 and beyond (something a lot on here do deny), but age catches up with everyone and Rivers had a better end to his career than Eli.
you take Eli  
hitdog42 : 11/8/2019 12:40 pm : link
and its not even close- not only did he win SBs, but he was the signature moment and MVP of those.
regular season career, Rivers better- but hes not Marino... so the discussion is just not worth it despite what media talking heads say
RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:
Quote:
thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.


Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
How about we change the narrative a little bit  
mattlawson : 11/8/2019 12:42 pm : link
What other Super Bowl MVP has won a championship with less talent than the 2011 NY Giants?
RE: and I'd say doing this  
PatersonPlank : 11/8/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14669136 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
makes a lot more sense for Eli vs. Ben. It doesn't make any sense with Rivers, his career is a distant 3rd to the other 2 (and I fucking hate Roethlisberger).


It's amazing how close Eli's and Big Ben's stats are. They are basically the same person stat wise
RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
PatersonPlank : 11/8/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


Why not?
RE: RE: and I'd say doing this  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14669332 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:


It's amazing how close Eli's and Big Ben's stats are. They are basically the same person stat wise


Roeth has a materially higher completion %, a considerably better TD/INT ratio, 50 less INTs, almost a full yard better YPA, a much better rating and QBR, and more game winning drives.

So I'm not sure what you are looking at...

RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


No, they wouldn't. Marino is the greatest QB by far to never win a Superbowl. Just an amazing individual player. It would be like Peyton Manning never winning a Superbowl.

What do you think Marino would rather have at the end of the day, though? Lots of records? Or a championship?

Why not ask him?

Quote:
One only prize eluded Marino. Just once did he play in the Super Bowl, and Miami lost. "I'd trade every record we broke to be Super Bowl champs," he said.

He doesn't even bother wearing his 1984 AFC championship ring. "A loser's ring," he said.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
x meadowlander : 11/8/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14669309 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.
Those teams were streaky as hell, would get off to strong starts of the 5-1 variety, then fall apart and suffer horrible Decembers.

These were good, not 'dominant' teams. One and done in 05' and 06', 07' was a late season, injury-riddled trainwreck that backed into the playoffs. Once they got healthy, they became the 08' powerhouse that was the best in the NFC, arguably the best in the league til' Plax shot himself and that team in the ass.

After that, I'd argue it was all Eli - 2011 was a team I completely gave up on, ruining their playoff chances with a late season collapse against the Skins, again somehow backing in and this time it was Eli getting himself into the Hall of Fame.

No, he's not Elway. I wasn't comparing him to John Elway or Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. The comparison was to Rivers, and I'd hold that comparison against Peyton or Brady or any other. 2011 was insane and what Eli went through afterwards was too. He deserved better.

'any other'  
x meadowlander : 11/8/2019 12:54 pm : link
'any other QB of Eli's era'...
Rivers was surrounded by more talent and still couldn't win  
weeg in the bronx : 11/8/2019 12:59 pm : link
When comparing players at the same position. If you look at Charger Pro Bowl players during Rivers career, he was generally surrounded by more talent, which includes two HOF players at the primes of their careers.
OL: 5 players with 9 PB seasons
WR: 3 with 7 PB years
RB: 3 with 8 PB years
TE: 1 with 8 PB years


Manning
OL:3 players with 8 PB seasons (should note that these guys made PB during SB seasons)
WR: 3 with 5 PB
RB: 2 with 4 years
TE: 1 with 2 years
can you imagine Tomlinson and Gates  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 1:05 pm : link
on the Giants with Eli, all in their primes?

Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.
RE: If what they're asking  
FStubbs : 11/8/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14669180 Gman11 said:
Quote:
is what career would I take ...

Well, without looking it up, Rivers probably has the better regular season stats. He probably has less non-winning seasons.

Still, the name of the game is to win a championship. If I could be the MVP of the biggest game in sports and do it twice all the rest is just window dressing.


This.

Over the balance of their careers, Rivers played with a much better roster, and has no rings to show for it.

That's the bottom line.
RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
FStubbs : 11/8/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


Marino is an outlier who posted modern day type passing stats back in the 80s. You can't compare him to Rivers.
RE: RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2019 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14669347 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14669309 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.

Those teams were streaky as hell, would get off to strong starts of the 5-1 variety, then fall apart and suffer horrible Decembers.

These were good, not 'dominant' teams. One and done in 05' and 06', 07' was a late season, injury-riddled trainwreck that backed into the playoffs. Once they got healthy, they became the 08' powerhouse that was the best in the NFC, arguably the best in the league til' Plax shot himself and that team in the ass.

After that, I'd argue it was all Eli - 2011 was a team I completely gave up on, ruining their playoff chances with a late season collapse against the Skins, again somehow backing in and this time it was Eli getting himself into the Hall of Fame.

No, he's not Elway. I wasn't comparing him to John Elway or Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. The comparison was to Rivers, and I'd hold that comparison against Peyton or Brady or any other. 2011 was insane and what Eli went through afterwards was too. He deserved better.


Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.

2012 to now has been a disaster.
Eli by a mile  
nochance : 11/8/2019 1:18 pm : link
Rivers was a stat padding FF type of QB. Comparing him to Eli is like comparing the Jets Kenny O'Brien with Phil Simms. Stats are very Misleading. How many Years were the Chargers favorites to go and win the SB under Rivers yet only made it to 1 AFC championship game and failed
RE: RE: ....  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14669320 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:


Quote:


Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers




Haha, riiiiight. Didnít rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? Heís also had some damn good receivers.


I am speaking more about ďteamĒ talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But theyíve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?

Letís not act like our defense didnít win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.



For example, hereís the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 Ė 32nd
2011 Ė 17th
2012 Ė 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th

I don't get it  
Bruner4329 : 11/8/2019 1:30 pm : link
Rivers has had a very good career but he has come up short a lot. His shining moment was playing with a bad knee in the AFC playoffs. I don't watch Charger games that often but at times he often makes a bad play in clutch time. Just like last night. Down 2 with 50 something seconds to go and he throws that dumb interception. Have seen that a few times with this guy. If I am not mistaken how many comeback wins in the last few minutes has Eli had in his career? I thought it was quite a few and could have been a lot more over the last 2-3 years if we had any semblance of a defense.
RE: can you imagine Tomlinson and Gates  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14669372 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
on the Giants with Eli, all in their primes?

Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.


team talent bro.

Can you imagine Rivers with Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Pierce, Antrelle Rolle, Cofield

You can't argue that Eli has had better defenses over the years than Rivers.
RE: RE: RE: ....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14669401 riceneggs said:
Quote:
In comment 14669320 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:


Quote:


Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers




Haha, riiiiight. Didnít rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? Heís also had some damn good receivers.



I am speaking more about ďteamĒ talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But theyíve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?

Letís not act like our defense didnít win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.



For example, hereís the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 Ė 32nd
2011 Ė 17th
2012 Ė 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th


And Manning's:

2010 - 17th
2011 - 25th
2012 - 12th
2013 - 18th
2014 - 22nd
2015 - 30th
2016 - 2nd
2017 - 27th
2018 - 23rd

Explain to me how Manning had "better" defenses?
I challenge you to go look up  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 1:33 pm : link
the Giants ranks during that timespan as well.

Also I don't know what you are going off of. Chargers ranked in the top 10 in both yards and points allowed so far in 2019, 2018, 2010, and 2006. And a few other years where one or the other was top 10.

The Giants - 2 years ranked top 10 in both, 2008 and 2016. The idea that the Giants had a historically better defense during the 2 QB's tenures just isn't true. And what happens in the season doesn't correlate to the playoffs anyway. The Giants defense stepped up during their 2 SB wins, they weren't some all time great defense those 2 seasons.
Current Chargers Defensive Rank: 9th  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:36 pm : link
Current Giants Defensive Rank: 29th
RE: ....  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers


You have this exactly backwards. Congrats.
More like franksnbeans.  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:42 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14669387 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:

Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.

2012 to now has been a disaster.


I agree to a point, but not with 2011. That team had a ton of holes. A badly aging OL, Bradshaw couldn't stay healthy, and the D was brutally bad. WR corps was outstanding, though. They and Eli carried the team that year.
And to those who say Eil didn't do anything after 2011,  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 1:52 pm : link
well maybe the team didn't, but you could argue that his 2 best seasons were '14 and '15, when he threw for 9,000 yds and 65 TD's.
There is some rampant stupid on this thread.  
Mike from Ohio : 11/8/2019 2:10 pm : link
Why would anyone who plays football prefer a career with no championship to two? If living in California is way better to you than living in NY/NJ so be it. That is a better location, not a better career.

Who had a better career is not the same as who was a better QB. Championships don't factor into that because there are too many other variables. The example of Marino proves the point. He is inarguably a better QB than Manning, but has no championships.

The question was whose career would you take, not who is better. The answer to the second question is not as clear cut.
When  
Les in TO : 11/8/2019 2:15 pm : link
They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs



RE: When  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14669466 Les in TO said:
Quote:
They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs




RE: RE: RE: RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14669434 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669387 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:



Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.

2012 to now has been a disaster.



I agree to a point, but not with 2011. That team had a ton of holes. A badly aging OL, Bradshaw couldn't stay healthy, and the D was brutally bad. WR corps was outstanding, though. They and Eli carried the team that year.


Fair enough. But the guy was trying to say Eli had no talent around him from 2005-2011. Like, come on. We had plenty of good players and a great OL in that time period. Those were good teams. Not great, but good. This era of teams since 2012 have been shit, no doubt. There is a difference.
RE: When  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 2:25 pm : link
In comment 14669466 Les in TO said:
Quote:
They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs




Rivers is haunted by two playoff games.

In 2006, they were a great team. But the Pats waltzed into San Diego and literally stole that game. It was just a classic playoff game coached by the Marty Schottenheimer. Just some very wacky plays. And it extended his playoff curse...

Then the next year they got hot in the playoffs and took down the Titans and Manning and the Colts in Indy. Unfortunately, Tomlinson hurt his knee in that Colts game and he was basically ineffective in the AFC Chmp game in New England. And that was a killer. NE was undefeated and did not play well at all that game. Brady was very mediocre.

So I would have loved to see the Chargers with a healthy Tomlinson that game. Turner and Sproles combined aren't Tomlinson...
Parsing the language in the question  
jhibb : 11/8/2019 2:32 pm : link
"Who is the better QB?" Debatable.
"Who has had the better career?" Debatable.
"Whose career would you rather have had?" I don't see how anyone who has ever played a team sport in their life could choose Rivers' over Manning's.

I mean, in this comparison, it's not just about being on two super bowl winning teams, but also being absolutely instrumental in those wins and the seasons leading up to them.
Eli, didn't even have to think about it.  
truebluelarry : 11/8/2019 2:32 pm : link
Two Super Bowl titles trumps everything.

Stats are for losers, show me the hardware.

Flags fly forever  
GiantsRage2007 : 11/8/2019 2:41 pm : link
you remember the players who won championships
If I am going back in time  
Payasdaddy : 11/8/2019 2:56 pm : link
1) crucifixion thru resurrection
Not getting religious here. And not really wanting to watch it obviously
But to see what really happened. Is he dead, did he rise, walk on water etc.
gotta be on top of list
2) 65 million hrs ago. Asteroid hitting earth. Be crazy to watch from afar
3) aliens helping to build pyramids
4). Where Bigfoot hides ?
5) of course killing hitler. Thatís a gimme
Feels like offseason. Sad!
RE: If I am going back in time  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14669524 Payasdaddy said:
Quote:
1) crucifixion thru resurrection
Not getting religious here. And not really wanting to watch it obviously
But to see what really happened. Is he dead, did he rise, walk on water etc.
gotta be on top of list
2) 65 million hrs ago. Asteroid hitting earth. Be crazy to watch from afar
3) aliens helping to build pyramids
4). Where Bigfoot hides ?
5) of course killing hitler. Thatís a gimme
Feels like offseason. Sad!


bruh, what?
If you even have to think about it  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/8/2019 3:43 pm : link
you are the wrong kind of fan.

It's all about winning. The 2 Championships trump anything Rivers has done.

Fuck stats. Win.
Rocco8112....  
rmc3981 : 11/8/2019 3:59 pm : link
said it best and couldn't agree more. In addition, Eli wins a third SB if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself.
RE: Rocco8112....  
LAXin : 11/8/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14669638 rmc3981 said:
Quote:
said it best and couldn't agree more. In addition, Eli wins a third SB if Plaxico doesn't shoot himself.


Another big factor in 2008 was losing Osi in the pre-season. He and Plax were two Eagles killers.

But I think it was far-stretched, fantasy even, to say if one particular play was made, or if one particular player was available, the Giants would have won 3 consecutive post-season games, whereas in reality they failed to win even one -- in addition to 2008, it has been suggested in BBI that in 1989, if only Flipper Anderson didn't catch that TD in over time, "the Giants could/would have gone on to win it all", and that in 1988, if only we didn't let that win slip away against 49ers or the Jets, "the Giants could/would have gone on to win it all!" Come on, man.
I'd take Rivers  
Chocco : 11/8/2019 6:31 pm : link
Then trade him for Eli
Why are they counting his 9 babies as part of his "career" anyway?  
Leg of Theismann : 11/8/2019 7:15 pm : link
Who the hell wants 9 babies?
RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
Mendenhall64 : 11/8/2019 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.
In hindsight ...  
Beer Man : 11/8/2019 9:26 pm : link
I believe Rivers could have been just as successful in NY. But it means nothing. Eli was the man, and the Giants have two SB Championships to show for it.
Easily Eli  
giantstock : 11/8/2019 9:27 pm : link
The posters lawguy and riceneggs easily exposed on here. Peter Rosenberg on Michale Kaye's show imo also said an incredibly stupid thing on this subject a while back too.
RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14669812 Mendenhall64 said:
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Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.


I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.

And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.

RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
Mendenhall64 : 11/8/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14669889 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669812 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:




Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.



I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.

And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.

And there's the guy calling Eli the most overrated QB in history. The Eli who's being bashed to hell in this same thread. Can you answer the question posed? Whose career would you rather have?
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
giantstock : 11/8/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14669889 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669812 Mendenhall64 said:


Quote:




Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.



I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.

And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.


Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.

It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.

even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.

RE: The whole point of sports is to win.  
mrvax : 11/8/2019 11:13 pm : link
In comment 14669041 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Eli 2, Philip 0. And I bet Rivers would rather have Eli's rings than any personal career accomplishments.


Any counter points to this fact are petty, IMO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:17 am : link
In comment 14669932 giantstock said:
Quote:

Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.

It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.

even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.


I agree Eli has been more prolific than Rivers in post-season.

In the regular season, it's a different story. Rivers has been the better player. He has more TD passes, a better TD/INT ratio, 53 less INTs, almost 5% higher completion %, superior regular season record, much better passer rating and QBR.

The only category Eli has ever led the league in anything is INTs, and 3X.

Meanwhile, Rivers has led the league at one time in TD passes, passing yardage, completion %, completions, YPA (3X). And in 10 of his 13 seasons as a starter, he's had a winning season.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
giantstock : 11/9/2019 1:22 am : link
In comment 14669964 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669932 giantstock said:


Quote:



Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.

It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.

even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.




I agree Eli has been more prolific than Rivers in post-season.

In the regular season, it's a different story. Rivers has been the better player. He has more TD passes, a better TD/INT ratio, 53 less INTs, almost 5% higher completion %, superior regular season record, much better passer rating and QBR.

The only category Eli has ever led the league in anything is INTs, and 3X.

Meanwhile, Rivers has led the league at one time in TD passes, passing yardage, completion %, completions, YPA (3X). And in 10 of his 13 seasons as a starter, he's had a winning season.


If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.

What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.
Holy shit, you have a two time SB MVP  
montanagiant : 11/9/2019 1:27 am : link
That beat what is determined to be the team that was the best ever twice and you seriously have to think that Rivers would have done better?

LMAO!!!
I always found Rivers to be extremely overrated..  
Sean : 11/9/2019 8:03 am : link
I donít believe heís ever beaten the Pats in his career. Where are the big wins? I never recall a moment where he came up big & won a big game.

Rivers still gets praise for playing with a torn ACL against NE in the 2007 playoffs. Funny how no one mentions the beating Eli took in SF.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
NINEster : 11/9/2019 11:38 am : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


This is how it appears on a national level. As the years go by, those two runs become a more and more distant memory, and the narrative is that the defense won those games.

The more hardcore fans would say that Rivers was a better regular season QB and Eli the better postseason QB. I'm not sure I've seen Rivers in an AFC Championship game more than once.

The evidence is there and hard to dispute.

It's a tough question to answer as far as better career because Eli is finishing .500 overall while his two '04 counterparts are in the .625-.650 range, with comparable passing stats. The two SBs are as good as two SBs can be, which probably irks Rivers. At the same time, has Eli truly been respected properly for it?

Another thing, franchises count too. The Chargers have largely been a snake bitten franchise going back to the Fouts days. You wonder if Brees as good as he is (and he's better than Rivers) could have gotten the Chargers to a Super Bowl -- in theory he should have, but it's a fair question given the circumstance.

The Giants have not been a snake bitten franchise, and the Steelers definitely have not.

That's why Roethlisberger is pretty lucky to be where he's at. The most consistently good franchise of the three, and a market that has largely been able to deal and squash his off the field issues between the motorcycle accident and sexual misconduct. On a pure football basis, he's the winner here, but the baggage might asterisk it overall.

RE: RE: When  
NINEster : 11/9/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14669479 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14669466 Les in TO said:


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They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.

Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs






Rivers is haunted by two playoff games.

In 2006, they were a great team. But the Pats waltzed into San Diego and literally stole that game. It was just a classic playoff game coached by the Marty Schottenheimer. Just some very wacky plays. And it extended his playoff curse...

Then the next year they got hot in the playoffs and took down the Titans and Manning and the Colts in Indy. Unfortunately, Tomlinson hurt his knee in that Colts game and he was basically ineffective in the AFC Chmp game in New England. And that was a killer. NE was undefeated and did not play well at all that game. Brady was very mediocre.

So I would have loved to see the Chargers with a healthy Tomlinson that game. Turner and Sproles combined aren't Tomlinson...


Is the 2006 game the one where Brady threw a redzone pick late in the game that was immediately fumbled and they regained possession?

I remember that moment well feeling like the Chargers had won and lost that game in a matter of seconds.
I think they both get to the Hall of Fame  
joeinpa : 11/9/2019 11:49 am : link
But for me right or wrong, Championships mean an awful lot.

I d prefer Eli s career and it s not really close.
RE: RE: RE: When  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14670138 NINEster said:
Quote:

Is the 2006 game the one where Brady threw a redzone pick late in the game that was immediately fumbled and they regained possession?

I remember that moment well feeling like the Chargers had won and lost that game in a matter of seconds.


It may have been in the redzone. Chargers were up by at least a TD with about 5 minutes to go in the 4th. Pats had the ball and were indeed driving. San Diego DB picked off a Brady pass but Troy Brown stripped the ball back and I think Reche Caldwell recovered it. And in typical Patriot fashion, the Pats scored off that enormous mistake...

Crushing play.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14669971 giantstock said:
Quote:

If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.

What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.


I don't think Eli's 232 regular game or Rivers's 218 are irrelevant. That's a tremendous sample size. An NFL season is only 16 games and nearly every one of those games, as you know, is critical.

Again, I have no problem giving Eli the nod with his playoff resume. But I'm not just going to summarily dismiss over the 200+ games each has played in the regular season. That chunk of games tells a significant story about each one of these players.

Let me add this as well. Playing in the AFC has also been some bad timing for Rivers. Having to deal with 12+ years of Brady, Manning, and Roeth is a very big deal.
LAXin  
rmc3981 : 11/9/2019 12:52 pm : link
Point taken.. I should have said "may have won" :)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
giantstock : 11/9/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14670193 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669971 giantstock said:


Quote:



If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.

What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.



I don't think Eli's 232 regular game or Rivers's 218 are irrelevant. That's a tremendous sample size. An NFL season is only 16 games and nearly every one of those games, as you know, is critical.

Again, I have no problem giving Eli the nod with his playoff resume. But I'm not just going to summarily dismiss over the 200+ games each has played in the regular season. That chunk of games tells a significant story about each one of these players.

Let me add this as well. Playing in the AFC has also been some bad timing for Rivers. Having to deal with 12+ years of Brady, Manning, and Roeth is a very big deal.


We are speaking symantics. "Summarily dismissing" is the phrase I feel irrelevant. The fact you say you have no problem giving eli the nod teals me we're on the same page. Eli's an A- student with a 90 grade while Rivers is 89 or 88 while he is close-- the playoff performance of Eli makes him the easy choice just as you look at which student is better - one who has a 90 score or the other who has an 88 or 89 score. This isn't both qb's close in both reg seaosn and playoffs.

As far as you say what is a big deal-- Eli's record vs NE is much better than Rivers record vs NE. ANd if you count the playoffs it is far superior. You can;t be telling me "how tough Rivers had it" while Eli beat the guy that you are mentioning was touhg on Rivers.
Forget MVP's X 2 & 2 Super Bowls  
Alex_Webster : 11/9/2019 3:47 pm : link
2 things that seal it for me, San Fran & Green Bay. Watch those games.

ELI=Bad Ass
Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
GeofromNJ : 11/9/2019 6:23 pm : link
available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.
RE: Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
an_idol_mind : 11/9/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14670440 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.


Yep. Ben's multiple sexual assault charges would have worked out great with the New York media.
RE: RE: Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
GeofromNJ : 11/9/2019 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14670458 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
In comment 14670440 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.



Yep. Ben's multiple sexual assault charges would have worked out great with the New York media.

An irrelevant comment if I ever read one.
P:erception..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/9/2019 10:11 pm : link
is always a funny thing. You heard it here all the time about how Eli came up short the last decade and last year you had a couple of posters who regularly bash Eli talking about Rivers having a MVP-type season while Eli was heading out the door.

And yet, people bring up consistency with Rivers. What isn't often mentioned, and not even brought up in this thread - The Chargers haven;t won the division since 2009 and went a stretch of 8 years with making the playoffs one time.

When the Giants do that with Eli at the helm, he's cooked and the major problem with the team. When Rivers does that, he's rarely looked at as the problem. I'd ask why that is, but it should be apparent to most what crowd here takes that view, and that makes it readily apparent "why" that path is taken.
RE: Giants fans love to rethink this trade as if it were the only option  
montanagiant : 11/9/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14670440 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.

Yeah a sexual predetor would have worked really well in NYC...My God this asinine
Rivers didnít play well in 07 Championship Game  
twostepgiants : 11/10/2019 8:55 am : link
He was 19 of 37 for 211 yards and 2 INT and his offense scored 12 pts.


Yes he was hurt and he it was ďgutsyĒ or whatever you want to call it but the simple fact is Rivers did not play well in this game.

The SD defense did. They forced 3 Brady INTs and sacked him 3 times but the SD couldnít deliver TDs.

So give him credit for playing when he was very injured but this is no Michael Jordan flu game.
This is no contest to me  
twostepgiants : 11/10/2019 9:07 am : link
Eli Manning had the far greater career, He is a 2 time Super Bowl Champion and 2 time Super Bowl MVP and 2-time Belichick and Brady slayer.

He has the greatest play in Super Bowl in history and is now 1 of just 2 QBs to deliver a game winning SB TD Drive and he did it twice.

He had 2 of the greatest playoff runs of all time and won legendary championship games in Green Bay Ice Bowl and San Francisco.

He has an Iron Man streak, will finish top 10 all time in yards and TDs and will be in the Giants Ring of Honor the millisecond he retires. giants fans will forever wear his jersey,

Philip Rivers will honestly barely be remembered, will anyone even care about his career?

The franchise left San Diego. He was mostly done by the time he arrived in Los Angeles so no one will remember or care about that, I doubt those fans will reminisce about his San Diego Days,

And what would they reminisce about anyways? Dropping a playoff game as a 15-1 top seed? The day he played hurt in a playoff game but still didnít play well?

If the Chargers have a Ring of Honor or such, will it even matter as the fans likely donít care as its different cities.

He has some very nice career stats and individual seasons but they didnít amount to anything for his team and city.

Eli currently still has more yards and they have similar career TDs. Those are the big stats so ultimately the career stats will be comparable.

Itís not like Rivers had a Marino career where he delivered MVPs and all time records.

No one will be rocking Philip Rivers jerseys a few years after he retires. Eli is forever in NY.
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