The guys filling in for Dan Patrick this morning have this as their poll question. I’m blown away by people calling in to say if they could take one career or the other, they’d take Rivers’ body of work.
One guy even summed it up this way: California, nine babies, and infinite wealth.
Really?
What about two championship MVPs on top of the two rings. NYC, three babies and infinite wealth? (With which you can vacation in California, or anywhere. Hell, everywhere!)
It seems a silly question and not only because I’m a Giants Fam and have enjoyed this era of Eli. It’s just an easy pick because isn’t the whole point of this for players to win the big one? Eli did it twice, while Rivers has failed to play in one.
Yeah, okay.... He has more wins. Great. Let's say the Football is a team game. You could say Eli's 2 Superbowl's outweigh Rivers' regular season wins but for this argument let's call it a wash.
They're both top ten all time in statistical categories like passing yards and TD's.
Yeah, Eli threw more picks, but is only 15th all time. Rivers is 35th all time so it's not some great divide.
Ben is right in the mix, too.
These three QB's are all in the top 10 all times in major statistical categories, and all have been major parts of the story of the NFL in the past 15 years. MAJOR parts.
The only other QB class that is even comparable is 1983 and they are all in.
IMO, if one of them is in, all of them are in. That's the story.
And with nine babies to feed clothe board educate and entertain Rivers is going to have to do a lot of post career endorsement work to maintain that wealth
And if we are talking money, Eli has that over Rivers as well. Also plays in an infinitely better city.
It isnt remotely close. And fuck off with 9 kids.
I lived in SD from 2003-2010, the, Chargers used to get blacked on b/c they couldn't sell enough tickets. When the Giants played there for their first time, the Chargers made you buy a bulk NFC East opponent package as that was their only hope of selling tickets.
2 Super Bowls and 2 SB MVPs outweighs any regular season success Rivers has had
I think the ? is, if I'm reading it correctly, whose career would you rather, not who is better.
9 kids, and what else?
Eli has two rings, Rivers never got to the SB.
California as a plus? 13.5% income tax...Beautiful state, full of wacky people, weird ideas and rampant natural disasters.....(It truly is a beautiful place when it is not burning or mud sliding)
As far as 4 or 9 kids, neither have to worry about paying for them. But River's wife must be ready to cut that thing off by now[j/k].
So with that said screw him...I take Eli!
Rivers BLEW his chances of winning the ring. Chargers had a number of good teams to do it with, but he couldn't beat the GOAT.
Eli could.
End of discussion.
Maybe he did, and that's one of the few notches in River's belt. But are you taking a consistent career in San Diego where you're luck to not get your game blacked out to hoisting 2 Lombardi's for New York City, all while being in or around the top 10 in every major statistical category for the position?
He's also got more money and less kids (a good thing in my book). And if he wants to move to sunny San Diego, he can do that.
Maybe... just maybe, both guys are great NFL quarterbacks and the separation between the two comes down to what you think about their performance over the recent (last 5 years) past?
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
You have to admit, there was a lot of ugly with Eli.
When all is said and done, they'll both be in the Hall of Fame.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.
I'll recall the 2007 and 2011 playoffs fondly. The 2011 playoffs were the pinnacle of his career. But he did nothing after that.
We're talking about playing football. San Diego was such a football paradise that the Chargers moved to.... LA.
Not only those 2 SB victories, but handling all that comes with being a QB in NY. My answer is always no.
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another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.
This is the take of basically every NFL fan who is not a Giants homer.
Just a terrible take here.
Has Rivers ever even a playoff game?
So how's playing in an empty stadium and it being blacked out locally?
I have no idea what your issue is but you really aren't making any sense. And people don't choose to live in NYC because of the weather, did you really not know that?
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
Imagine being this miserable of a person
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Eli 2, Philip 0. And I bet Rivers would rather have Eli's rings than any personal career accomplishments.
Has Rivers ever even a playoff game?
Manning has been to the playoffs 6 times. He is 8-4
Rivers has been to the playoffs 6 times. He is 5-6
I really can't fathom a Giants fan saying to themselves, 'Ya know... 2 Super Bowls aside, I don't look back fondly on the Eli era.'
I just, uh, don't get it.
Eli is my guy, faced the best and won, carried the mail in the big city for a decade plus, two of the greatest plays/drives in Super Bowl history, class act all the way, face of the franchise, unreal durability, simply the best.
He made all his targets better, Smith was an all pro before being hurt, Boss and Ballard, he helped make Cruz a fucking champion and superstar, Manningham immortalized on NFL films and losing players who never sniffed a roster after leaving the Giants,like Reuben Randle,were productive with Eli. Beckham's career is in full nose dive now, think he can wake up from the haze of narcissm to realize the role Eli played in helping him reach his dream of being internet famous? Mayfield is on the train to bustville and looks lost and inaccurate? The Browns would kill to have Mayfield end up half as good and consistently productive as Easy-E.
It's not so easy to play QB week after week, year after year.
Watching San Diego last night and seeing how the Giants are still hot garbage despite kicking the king of lightning rods to the curb, makes me think Eli can still play.
Once Eli became a big boy in the league the Giants offenses produced season after season. Once tweedle dumb became coach in 2016 ( based on an OC career carried by Eli), the offense cratered. The Offense last year even started to improve with Eli at the helm. Eli's biggest issue is he was not good enough anymore to hoist a broken roster on his back and carry two consecutive incompetent head coaches, so the losses piled up. Eli also never got hurt so he was out there for the good, bad and the ugly.
Eli had two careers here, he was consisent, productive and available for them all. As the team collapsed around him and the front office scapegoated a HoF coach for two losers, Eli's record went south.
Eli should be be a stone cold lock for the Hall of Fame, Rivers has a case too, but give me Eli.
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another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
Imagine being this miserable of a person
I hope Jones has a career as average as you describe Eli's
Eli has two rings, Rivers never got to the SB.
California as a plus? 13.5% income tax...Beautiful state, full of wacky people, weird ideas and rampant natural disasters.....(It truly is a beautiful place when it is not burning or mud sliding)
As far as 4 or 9 kids, neither have to worry about paying for them. But River's wife must be ready to cut that thing off by now[j/k].
Doesn't NYC have a high income tax as well? And people live in NY because they have to, its where many of the high paying jobs are. California is somewhere where way more people would actually choose to live if money wasn't an issue.
I think of that too. Maybe not jail but I don't see him doing well in NY. That rape thing would have buried him here. I could also see him clashing with Coughlin. He ended up in the perfect spot.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.
I find it so weird.
This reminds me... Remember for years how much we heard on BBI how Ernie got taken to the cleaners by Smith? Just a total fleecing?
The names Merriman and Kaeding were trumpeted ad nausium for years.
How's that fleecing looking with a little historical perspective?
Well, without looking it up, Rivers probably has the better regular season stats. He probably has less non-winning seasons.
Still, the name of the game is to win a championship. If I could be the MVP of the biggest game in sports and do it twice all the rest is just window dressing.
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In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:
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another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.
This is the take of basically every NFL fan who is not a Giants homer.
I call total BS on that one, how many franchises and their fans out there would have liked to have TWO SBs from their franchise QB, pretty much ALL of them save NE!
Funny you mention Romo b/c was talking this morning at work about how Rivers and Romo seem like they’ve had similar types of NFL careers. Both played the position at a high level, face of the franchise, Romo wasn’t as durable as Rivers has been. Neither had much success in the post season. I think Rivers is the better of the two. Romo is a hard no for the HoF. Rivers is more of a “maybe” but still a no.
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another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.
I find it so weird.
It's not just weird it's moronic, people who just look at stats and not see the greatness of someone who could "elevate" their game when the situation called for it. As for the Tiki comment, that is just laughable, remember when he made that on the way out after he retired and what happens after that, only one of the greatest playoff runs of all time. So who's more "comical" in that situation the guy who retires early to go be a broadcaster or the guy who actually leads his team TO A CHAMPIONSHIP. As for the Parcells comment he was talking about seasonal records, you're talking career where Eli's career says TWO-TIME SB CHAMPION! I'LL TAKE THAT SHIT OVER rIVERS EVERY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS!!! (RANT OVER)
It is irrelevant to the topic but anyone who thinks having 9 kids is a plus is nuts.
There is something very weird about this fanbase that I think is specific to just NYG fans. I actually believe Nick Foles is far more revered by Eagles fans that Eli is by Giants fans.
Tom Coughlin is often mocked and has his accomplishments here minimized as well.
Very ungrateful bunch.
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Is he a HOF'er?
Funny you mention Romo b/c was talking this morning at work about how Rivers and Romo seem like they’ve had similar types of NFL careers. Both played the position at a high level, face of the franchise, Romo wasn’t as durable as Rivers has been. Neither had much success in the post season. I think Rivers is the better of the two. Romo is a hard no for the HoF. Rivers is more of a “maybe” but still a no.
I heard Darren Woodson on the radio (I think) talk about the difference between Tony Romo and Dak Prescott. He said it was undeniable that Tony was the better QB (statistically and as a thrower of the ball). However, the difference between the two is that the locker room of the Cowboys believed almost unanimously that in a big spot of a big game, that Dak would get the job done whereas they didn't believe in Tony like that.
There's something to that belief in a QB. That's why I would choose Eli over Rivers 6 times a week and twice on Sunday. Some guys are just capable of elevating their play. I think Francesa said that the other day when comparing Eli to Peyton. He said Peyton was the best regular season QB he'd ever seen, but Eli elevated his game in big spots while Peyton didn't for the most part.
Rivers would have spent a quarter of his career on IR, so would nearly every other QB in the league had they played behind James Brewer, Ereck Flowers, John Jerry and the rest of the rogues gallery.
I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.
Since Coughlin was hired ONLY 2008 was a dominant team.
Eli had snippets of that and never all in one season. the common denominator in all those failed chargers seasons? Rivers.
guy would go out there in a walking boot to play in the playoffs he'd probably have been better off sitting.
Rivers would have spent a quarter of his career on IR, so would nearly every other QB in the league had they played behind James Brewer, Ereck Flowers, John Jerry and the rest of the rogues gallery.
I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.
Since Coughlin was hired ONLY 2008 was a dominant team.
Manning TWICE beat the #1 and #2 seed ON THE ROAD in the playoffs, before beating the #1 seed in the other conference in the Superbowl.
Twice.
Out of both of those Superbowl runs? 8-0? One home game.
He played 9 games a year in Cali weather. Sure, he may have been consistently better, except when it mattered.
I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.
And here is where the Rubicon is crossed into the Land of the Absurd.
I can list quite a few more, but I suggest you reacquaint yourself with some of the work Elway did early in his career in Denver. He dragged three of the worst teams I have ever seen to the SB.
Eli isn't in the same universe as Elway as a QB.
There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.
I find it so weird.
Yep, so-called Giant fans who can't wait to take a dump on the best QB this franchise has ever known.
Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.
He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.
Sorry.
Well, the bolded is exactly right, anyway. We could have been Chargers fans.
That's the point.
Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
Haha, riiiiight. Didn’t rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? He’s also had some damn good receivers.
Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
I do agree he trailed of in 16 and beyond (something a lot on here do deny), but age catches up with everyone and Rivers had a better end to his career than Eli.
regular season career, Rivers better- but hes not Marino... so the discussion is just not worth it despite what media talking heads say
Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.
For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
It's amazing how close Eli's and Big Ben's stats are. They are basically the same person stat wise
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thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.
Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.
For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
Why not?
It's amazing how close Eli's and Big Ben's stats are. They are basically the same person stat wise
Roeth has a materially higher completion %, a considerably better TD/INT ratio, 50 less INTs, almost a full yard better YPA, a much better rating and QBR, and more game winning drives.
So I'm not sure what you are looking at...
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thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.
Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.
For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
No, they wouldn't. Marino is the greatest QB by far to never win a Superbowl. Just an amazing individual player. It would be like Peyton Manning never winning a Superbowl.
What do you think Marino would rather have at the end of the day, though? Lots of records? Or a championship?
Why not ask him?
He doesn't even bother wearing his 1984 AFC championship ring. "A loser's ring," he said.
Link - ( New Window )
These were good, not 'dominant' teams. One and done in 05' and 06', 07' was a late season, injury-riddled trainwreck that backed into the playoffs. Once they got healthy, they became the 08' powerhouse that was the best in the NFC, arguably the best in the league til' Plax shot himself and that team in the ass.
After that, I'd argue it was all Eli - 2011 was a team I completely gave up on, ruining their playoff chances with a late season collapse against the Skins, again somehow backing in and this time it was Eli getting himself into the Hall of Fame.
No, he's not Elway. I wasn't comparing him to John Elway or Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. The comparison was to Rivers, and I'd hold that comparison against Peyton or Brady or any other. 2011 was insane and what Eli went through afterwards was too. He deserved better.
OL: 5 players with 9 PB seasons
WR: 3 with 7 PB years
RB: 3 with 8 PB years
TE: 1 with 8 PB years
Manning
OL:3 players with 8 PB seasons (should note that these guys made PB during SB seasons)
WR: 3 with 5 PB
RB: 2 with 4 years
TE: 1 with 2 years
Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.
Well, without looking it up, Rivers probably has the better regular season stats. He probably has less non-winning seasons.
Still, the name of the game is to win a championship. If I could be the MVP of the biggest game in sports and do it twice all the rest is just window dressing.
This.
Over the balance of their careers, Rivers played with a much better roster, and has no rings to show for it.
That's the bottom line.
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thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.
Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.
For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
Marino is an outlier who posted modern day type passing stats back in the 80s. You can't compare him to Rivers.
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But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.
Those teams were streaky as hell, would get off to strong starts of the 5-1 variety, then fall apart and suffer horrible Decembers.
These were good, not 'dominant' teams. One and done in 05' and 06', 07' was a late season, injury-riddled trainwreck that backed into the playoffs. Once they got healthy, they became the 08' powerhouse that was the best in the NFC, arguably the best in the league til' Plax shot himself and that team in the ass.
After that, I'd argue it was all Eli - 2011 was a team I completely gave up on, ruining their playoff chances with a late season collapse against the Skins, again somehow backing in and this time it was Eli getting himself into the Hall of Fame.
No, he's not Elway. I wasn't comparing him to John Elway or Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. The comparison was to Rivers, and I'd hold that comparison against Peyton or Brady or any other. 2011 was insane and what Eli went through afterwards was too. He deserved better.
Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.
2012 to now has been a disaster.
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Rivers is way more talented than Eli.
Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
Haha, riiiiight. Didn’t rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? He’s also had some damn good receivers.
I am speaking more about “team” talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But they’ve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?
Let’s not act like our defense didn’t win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.
For example, here’s the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 – 32nd
2011 – 17th
2012 – 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th
Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.
team talent bro.
Can you imagine Rivers with Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Pierce, Antrelle Rolle, Cofield
You can't argue that Eli has had better defenses over the years than Rivers.
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In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
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Rivers is way more talented than Eli.
Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
Haha, riiiiight. Didn’t rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? He’s also had some damn good receivers.
I am speaking more about “team” talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But they’ve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?
Let’s not act like our defense didn’t win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.
For example, here’s the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 – 32nd
2011 – 17th
2012 – 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th
And Manning's:
2010 - 17th
2011 - 25th
2012 - 12th
2013 - 18th
2014 - 22nd
2015 - 30th
2016 - 2nd
2017 - 27th
2018 - 23rd
Explain to me how Manning had "better" defenses?
Also I don't know what you are going off of. Chargers ranked in the top 10 in both yards and points allowed so far in 2019, 2018, 2010, and 2006. And a few other years where one or the other was top 10.
The Giants - 2 years ranked top 10 in both, 2008 and 2016. The idea that the Giants had a historically better defense during the 2 QB's tenures just isn't true. And what happens in the season doesn't correlate to the playoffs anyway. The Giants defense stepped up during their 2 SB wins, they weren't some all time great defense those 2 seasons.
Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
You have this exactly backwards. Congrats.
Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.
2012 to now has been a disaster.
I agree to a point, but not with 2011. That team had a ton of holes. A badly aging OL, Bradshaw couldn't stay healthy, and the D was brutally bad. WR corps was outstanding, though. They and Eli carried the team that year.
Who had a better career is not the same as who was a better QB. Championships don't factor into that because there are too many other variables. The example of Marino proves the point. He is inarguably a better QB than Manning, but has no championships.
The question was whose career would you take, not who is better. The answer to the second question is not as clear cut.
Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs
Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs
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Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.
2012 to now has been a disaster.
I agree to a point, but not with 2011. That team had a ton of holes. A badly aging OL, Bradshaw couldn't stay healthy, and the D was brutally bad. WR corps was outstanding, though. They and Eli carried the team that year.
Fair enough. But the guy was trying to say Eli had no talent around him from 2005-2011. Like, come on. We had plenty of good players and a great OL in that time period. Those were good teams. Not great, but good. This era of teams since 2012 have been shit, no doubt. There is a difference.
Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs
Rivers is haunted by two playoff games.
In 2006, they were a great team. But the Pats waltzed into San Diego and literally stole that game. It was just a classic playoff game coached by the Marty Schottenheimer. Just some very wacky plays. And it extended his playoff curse...
Then the next year they got hot in the playoffs and took down the Titans and Manning and the Colts in Indy. Unfortunately, Tomlinson hurt his knee in that Colts game and he was basically ineffective in the AFC Chmp game in New England. And that was a killer. NE was undefeated and did not play well at all that game. Brady was very mediocre.
So I would have loved to see the Chargers with a healthy Tomlinson that game. Turner and Sproles combined aren't Tomlinson...
"Who has had the better career?" Debatable.
"Whose career would you rather have had?" I don't see how anyone who has ever played a team sport in their life could choose Rivers' over Manning's.
I mean, in this comparison, it's not just about being on two super bowl winning teams, but also being absolutely instrumental in those wins and the seasons leading up to them.
Stats are for losers, show me the hardware.
Not getting religious here. And not really wanting to watch it obviously
But to see what really happened. Is he dead, did he rise, walk on water etc.
gotta be on top of list
2) 65 million hrs ago. Asteroid hitting earth. Be crazy to watch from afar
3) aliens helping to build pyramids
4). Where Bigfoot hides ?
5) of course killing hitler. That’s a gimme
Feels like offseason. Sad!
Not getting religious here. And not really wanting to watch it obviously
But to see what really happened. Is he dead, did he rise, walk on water etc.
gotta be on top of list
2) 65 million hrs ago. Asteroid hitting earth. Be crazy to watch from afar
3) aliens helping to build pyramids
4). Where Bigfoot hides ?
5) of course killing hitler. That’s a gimme
Feels like offseason. Sad!
bruh, what?
It's all about winning. The 2 Championships trump anything Rivers has done.
Fuck stats. Win.
Another big factor in 2008 was losing Osi in the pre-season. He and Plax were two Eagles killers.
But I think it was far-stretched, fantasy even, to say if one particular play was made, or if one particular player was available, the Giants would have won 3 consecutive post-season games, whereas in reality they failed to win even one -- in addition to 2008, it has been suggested in BBI that in 1989, if only Flipper Anderson didn't catch that TD in over time, "the Giants could/would have gone on to win it all", and that in 1988, if only we didn't let that win slip away against 49ers or the Jets, "the Giants could/would have gone on to win it all!" Come on, man.
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thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.
Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.
For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.
Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.
I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.
And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.
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Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.
I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.
And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.
And there's the guy calling Eli the most overrated QB in history. The Eli who's being bashed to hell in this same thread. Can you answer the question posed? Whose career would you rather have?
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Except that's not the question. The question is whose career would you rather have? Who doesn't pick the career with the 2 rings along with the MVPs? We know Marino would.
I get it. But what gets mixed into this simple premise, inevitably, is that the QB with the hardware is therefore better than the QB without the hardware. That is suggested in many posts above.
And that is very disputable. It's like the poster above saying Eli and Roeth have stats that are virtually the same. So they are not distinguishable. But that's a complete farce and lazy. By any measure of how a QB show be judged statistically, Roeth is materially better than Eli.
Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.
It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.
even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.
Any counter points to this fact are petty, IMO.
Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.
It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.
even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.
I agree Eli has been more prolific than Rivers in post-season.
In the regular season, it's a different story. Rivers has been the better player. He has more TD passes, a better TD/INT ratio, 53 less INTs, almost 5% higher completion %, superior regular season record, much better passer rating and QBR.
The only category Eli has ever led the league in anything is INTs, and 3X.
Meanwhile, Rivers has led the league at one time in TD passes, passing yardage, completion %, completions, YPA (3X). And in 10 of his 13 seasons as a starter, he's had a winning season.
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Eli is better than Rivers for the career. It's just that sometimes fans look for something greener. IMO there is no doubt posters like lawguy and the other dude hyping Rivers -if they were a SD/LA fan they would be complaining that "rivers didn't get it done in the big games." Sometimes fans need to invent things to gripe about.
It's more than the hardware. They've both played about the same number of playoff games (ofc in the same era) and ELi's playoff numbers are superior. They both played quite a few playoffs games - and playoffs are superior to regular season. Eli has a better compl%, int%, 1st down passing % and much higher numbers for 4th qtr comebacks and game winning drives.
even if they are close when you look at overall numbers and even if Rivers has superior numbers when you combine both-- there is one big fact: That there are 2 seasons in the NFL for the successful team/player. Reg season and playoffs. When you look at the totality of Eli's playoff numbers in the same era vs Rivers- Eli is better.
I agree Eli has been more prolific than Rivers in post-season.
In the regular season, it's a different story. Rivers has been the better player. He has more TD passes, a better TD/INT ratio, 53 less INTs, almost 5% higher completion %, superior regular season record, much better passer rating and QBR.
The only category Eli has ever led the league in anything is INTs, and 3X.
Meanwhile, Rivers has led the league at one time in TD passes, passing yardage, completion %, completions, YPA (3X). And in 10 of his 13 seasons as a starter, he's had a winning season.
If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.
What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.
LMAO!!!
Rivers still gets praise for playing with a torn ACL against NE in the 2007 playoffs. Funny how no one mentions the beating Eli took in SF.
This is how it appears on a national level. As the years go by, those two runs become a more and more distant memory, and the narrative is that the defense won those games.
The more hardcore fans would say that Rivers was a better regular season QB and Eli the better postseason QB. I'm not sure I've seen Rivers in an AFC Championship game more than once.
The evidence is there and hard to dispute.
It's a tough question to answer as far as better career because Eli is finishing .500 overall while his two '04 counterparts are in the .625-.650 range, with comparable passing stats. The two SBs are as good as two SBs can be, which probably irks Rivers. At the same time, has Eli truly been respected properly for it?
Another thing, franchises count too. The Chargers have largely been a snake bitten franchise going back to the Fouts days. You wonder if Brees as good as he is (and he's better than Rivers) could have gotten the Chargers to a Super Bowl -- in theory he should have, but it's a fair question given the circumstance.
The Giants have not been a snake bitten franchise, and the Steelers definitely have not.
That's why Roethlisberger is pretty lucky to be where he's at. The most consistently good franchise of the three, and a market that has largely been able to deal and squash his off the field issues between the motorcycle accident and sexual misconduct. On a pure football basis, he's the winner here, but the baggage might asterisk it overall.
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They are both 80 sitting on their rocking chairs on their front porch, Eli will be able to look back with greater joy. The two super bowl runs were magical.
Rivers was the more consistent regular season QB IMO but never got to the top. Eli had a lot of help from the defense but he also was clutch. Rivers never got over that hump in the playoffs
Rivers is haunted by two playoff games.
In 2006, they were a great team. But the Pats waltzed into San Diego and literally stole that game. It was just a classic playoff game coached by the Marty Schottenheimer. Just some very wacky plays. And it extended his playoff curse...
Then the next year they got hot in the playoffs and took down the Titans and Manning and the Colts in Indy. Unfortunately, Tomlinson hurt his knee in that Colts game and he was basically ineffective in the AFC Chmp game in New England. And that was a killer. NE was undefeated and did not play well at all that game. Brady was very mediocre.
So I would have loved to see the Chargers with a healthy Tomlinson that game. Turner and Sproles combined aren't Tomlinson...
Is the 2006 game the one where Brady threw a redzone pick late in the game that was immediately fumbled and they regained possession?
I remember that moment well feeling like the Chargers had won and lost that game in a matter of seconds.
I d prefer Eli s career and it s not really close.
Is the 2006 game the one where Brady threw a redzone pick late in the game that was immediately fumbled and they regained possession?
I remember that moment well feeling like the Chargers had won and lost that game in a matter of seconds.
It may have been in the redzone. Chargers were up by at least a TD with about 5 minutes to go in the 4th. Pats had the ball and were indeed driving. San Diego DB picked off a Brady pass but Troy Brown stripped the ball back and I think Reche Caldwell recovered it. And in typical Patriot fashion, the Pats scored off that enormous mistake...
Crushing play.
If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.
What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.
I don't think Eli's 232 regular game or Rivers's 218 are irrelevant. That's a tremendous sample size. An NFL season is only 16 games and nearly every one of those games, as you know, is critical.
Again, I have no problem giving Eli the nod with his playoff resume. But I'm not just going to summarily dismiss over the 200+ games each has played in the regular season. That chunk of games tells a significant story about each one of these players.
Let me add this as well. Playing in the AFC has also been some bad timing for Rivers. Having to deal with 12+ years of Brady, Manning, and Roeth is a very big deal.
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If you agree that ELi is better than Rivers in the playoffs then it makes everything else you just said about Rovers being better in the regular season completely irrelevant.
What's more important-- playoffs or reg season? Playoffs trumps the reg season. Both guys have played near a full season of playoffs so that makes what eli has done with his superior playoffs - a superiors player despite Rivers being better in reg season. The reg season and playoffs are NOT even.
I don't think Eli's 232 regular game or Rivers's 218 are irrelevant. That's a tremendous sample size. An NFL season is only 16 games and nearly every one of those games, as you know, is critical.
Again, I have no problem giving Eli the nod with his playoff resume. But I'm not just going to summarily dismiss over the 200+ games each has played in the regular season. That chunk of games tells a significant story about each one of these players.
Let me add this as well. Playing in the AFC has also been some bad timing for Rivers. Having to deal with 12+ years of Brady, Manning, and Roeth is a very big deal.
We are speaking symantics. "Summarily dismissing" is the phrase I feel irrelevant. The fact you say you have no problem giving eli the nod teals me we're on the same page. Eli's an A- student with a 90 grade while Rivers is 89 or 88 while he is close-- the playoff performance of Eli makes him the easy choice just as you look at which student is better - one who has a 90 score or the other who has an 88 or 89 score. This isn't both qb's close in both reg seaosn and playoffs.
As far as you say what is a big deal-- Eli's record vs NE is much better than Rivers record vs NE. ANd if you count the playoffs it is far superior. You can;t be telling me "how tough Rivers had it" while Eli beat the guy that you are mentioning was touhg on Rivers.
ELI=Bad Ass
Yep. Ben's multiple sexual assault charges would have worked out great with the New York media.
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available at the time. Should Acorsi have traded for Eli or kept Rivers? This was not the only choice open to Acorsi. Acorsi could have drafted Roethlisberger in which case the Giants would not have had to lose draft picks and we would have gotten a quarterback better than both Rivers and Eli. I was irritated when Acorsi passed on Ben and I'm still irritated, two super bowls notwithstanding. With Ben, the Giants would have been in three or four superbowls - possibly more given the Giants offensive and defensive talent during Eli's early years.
Yep. Ben's multiple sexual assault charges would have worked out great with the New York media.
An irrelevant comment if I ever read one.
And yet, people bring up consistency with Rivers. What isn't often mentioned, and not even brought up in this thread - The Chargers haven;t won the division since 2009 and went a stretch of 8 years with making the playoffs one time.
When the Giants do that with Eli at the helm, he's cooked and the major problem with the team. When Rivers does that, he's rarely looked at as the problem. I'd ask why that is, but it should be apparent to most what crowd here takes that view, and that makes it readily apparent "why" that path is taken.
Yeah a sexual predetor would have worked really well in NYC...My God this asinine
Yes he was hurt and he it was “gutsy” or whatever you want to call it but the simple fact is Rivers did not play well in this game.
The SD defense did. They forced 3 Brady INTs and sacked him 3 times but the SD couldn’t deliver TDs.
So give him credit for playing when he was very injured but this is no Michael Jordan flu game.
He has the greatest play in Super Bowl in history and is now 1 of just 2 QBs to deliver a game winning SB TD Drive and he did it twice.
He had 2 of the greatest playoff runs of all time and won legendary championship games in Green Bay Ice Bowl and San Francisco.
He has an Iron Man streak, will finish top 10 all time in yards and TDs and will be in the Giants Ring of Honor the millisecond he retires. giants fans will forever wear his jersey,
Philip Rivers will honestly barely be remembered, will anyone even care about his career?
The franchise left San Diego. He was mostly done by the time he arrived in Los Angeles so no one will remember or care about that, I doubt those fans will reminisce about his San Diego Days,
And what would they reminisce about anyways? Dropping a playoff game as a 15-1 top seed? The day he played hurt in a playoff game but still didn’t play well?
If the Chargers have a Ring of Honor or such, will it even matter as the fans likely don’t care as its different cities.
He has some very nice career stats and individual seasons but they didn’t amount to anything for his team and city.
Eli currently still has more yards and they have similar career TDs. Those are the big stats so ultimately the career stats will be comparable.
It’s not like Rivers had a Marino career where he delivered MVPs and all time records.
No one will be rocking Philip Rivers jerseys a few years after he retires. Eli is forever in NY.