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Morning career discussion: You take Eli or Rivers?

Beezer : 11/8/2019 9:38 am
The guys filling in for Dan Patrick this morning have this as their poll question. I’m blown away by people calling in to say if they could take one career or the other, they’d take Rivers’ body of work.

One guy even summed it up this way: California, nine babies, and infinite wealth.

Really?

What about two championship MVPs on top of the two rings. NYC, three babies and infinite wealth? (With which you can vacation in California, or anywhere. Hell, everywhere!)

It seems a silly question and not only because I’m a Giants Fam and have enjoyed this era of Eli. It’s just an easy pick because isn’t the whole point of this for players to win the big one? Eli did it twice, while Rivers has failed to play in one.
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RE: There was a reason  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14669166 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Archie wouldn’t allow Eli to go to San Diego


This reminds me... Remember for years how much we heard on BBI how Ernie got taken to the cleaners by Smith? Just a total fleecing?

The names Merriman and Kaeding were trumpeted ad nausium for years.

How's that fleecing looking with a little historical perspective?
If what they're asking  
Gman11 : 11/8/2019 11:02 am : link
is what career would I take ...

Well, without looking it up, Rivers probably has the better regular season stats. He probably has less non-winning seasons.

Still, the name of the game is to win a championship. If I could be the MVP of the biggest game in sports and do it twice all the rest is just window dressing.
Eli without question  
Go Terps : 11/8/2019 11:11 am : link
I have fond memories of watching Eli make miracles to win two Super Bowls. What memories do Charger fans have? Their fucking team left the city under Rivers's watch.
RE: RE: RE:  
gmenatlarge : 11/8/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14669100 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669085 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.



This is a pathetic take and I feel sorry for you as a Giants fan if that's how you view all that. You really missed the boat.



This is the take of basically every NFL fan who is not a Giants homer.


I call total BS on that one, how many franchises and their fans out there would have liked to have TWO SBs from their franchise QB, pretty much ALL of them save NE!
100% Eli  
AcesUp : 11/8/2019 11:22 am : link
They're comparable players over the length of their careers but I don't see why any Giants fan would make that swap. Ben is a little trickier for some people, because objectively speaking, he was the better QB. Subjectively speaking, he comes off as a dirtbag and is probably a rapist. So I still take Eli ten time out of ten over him.
RE: Tony Romo had a lot of regular season wins too.  
trueblueinpw : 11/8/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14669056 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Is he a HOF'er?


Funny you mention Romo b/c was talking this morning at work about how Rivers and Romo seem like they’ve had similar types of NFL careers. Both played the position at a high level, face of the franchise, Romo wasn’t as durable as Rivers has been. Neither had much success in the post season. I think Rivers is the better of the two. Romo is a hard no for the HoF. Rivers is more of a “maybe” but still a no.
Eli in a heartbeat  
Torrag : 11/8/2019 11:30 am : link
Built for NY and was always clutch unlike Rivers.
RE: RE:  
gmenatlarge : 11/8/2019 11:32 am : link
In comment 14669171 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.



There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.

I find it so weird.

It's not just weird it's moronic, people who just look at stats and not see the greatness of someone who could "elevate" their game when the situation called for it. As for the Tiki comment, that is just laughable, remember when he made that on the way out after he retired and what happens after that, only one of the greatest playoff runs of all time. So who's more "comical" in that situation the guy who retires early to go be a broadcaster or the guy who actually leads his team TO A CHAMPIONSHIP. As for the Parcells comment he was talking about seasonal records, you're talking career where Eli's career says TWO-TIME SB CHAMPION! I'LL TAKE THAT SHIT OVER rIVERS EVERY FUCKING DAY OF THE WEEK AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS!!! (RANT OVER)
Shortly after that "comical" remark by Tiki in 2007.....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 11:36 am : link
Here's what he was up to:
and then shortly after that....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 11:37 am : link
I favor Eli but, in 2020, Rivers will still have a chance to improve  
Ivan15 : 11/8/2019 11:39 am : link
his stats and win a Super Bowl. Probably not Eli.

It is irrelevant to the topic but anyone who thinks having 9 kids is a plus is nuts.
My Dad- Jets fan and Father in law- Cowboys fan  
Chris684 : 11/8/2019 11:52 am : link
talk about Eli's career with more respect than most NYG fans I read here.

There is something very weird about this fanbase that I think is specific to just NYG fans. I actually believe Nick Foles is far more revered by Eagles fans that Eli is by Giants fans.

Tom Coughlin is often mocked and has his accomplishments here minimized as well.

Very ungrateful bunch.
Two rings beats suckhole California anytime.  
Red Dog : 11/8/2019 11:56 am : link
.
RE: RE: Tony Romo had a lot of regular season wins too.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/8/2019 12:04 pm : link
In comment 14669221 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 14669056 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Is he a HOF'er?



Funny you mention Romo b/c was talking this morning at work about how Rivers and Romo seem like they’ve had similar types of NFL careers. Both played the position at a high level, face of the franchise, Romo wasn’t as durable as Rivers has been. Neither had much success in the post season. I think Rivers is the better of the two. Romo is a hard no for the HoF. Rivers is more of a “maybe” but still a no.


I heard Darren Woodson on the radio (I think) talk about the difference between Tony Romo and Dak Prescott. He said it was undeniable that Tony was the better QB (statistically and as a thrower of the ball). However, the difference between the two is that the locker room of the Cowboys believed almost unanimously that in a big spot of a big game, that Dak would get the job done whereas they didn't believe in Tony like that.

There's something to that belief in a QB. That's why I would choose Eli over Rivers 6 times a week and twice on Sunday. Some guys are just capable of elevating their play. I think Francesa said that the other day when comparing Eli to Peyton. He said Peyton was the best regular season QB he'd ever seen, but Eli elevated his game in big spots while Peyton didn't for the most part.
Prove to me that ANY QB...  
x meadowlander : 11/8/2019 12:05 pm : link
...would make it through the gauntlet that Eli has. Both 07' and 11' were won with subpar teams with insane road paths to both Lombardi's and Eli somehow managed his Iron Man run behind some of the shittiest offensive lines ever to wear blue.

Rivers would have spent a quarter of his career on IR, so would nearly every other QB in the league had they played behind James Brewer, Ereck Flowers, John Jerry and the rest of the rogues gallery.

I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.

Since Coughlin was hired ONLY 2008 was a dominant team.
eli did more with less  
Platos : 11/8/2019 12:07 pm : link
you want to talk about perennial contenders falling short? CHargers had squads for years. LDT, Gates, success with WRs who didn't have career ending ailments. defenses that people feared.

Eli had snippets of that and never all in one season. the common denominator in all those failed chargers seasons? Rivers.

guy would go out there in a walking boot to play in the playoffs he'd probably have been better off sitting.
RE: Prove to me that ANY QB...  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14669266 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...would make it through the gauntlet that Eli has. Both 07' and 11' were won with subpar teams with insane road paths to both Lombardi's and Eli somehow managed his Iron Man run behind some of the shittiest offensive lines ever to wear blue.

Rivers would have spent a quarter of his career on IR, so would nearly every other QB in the league had they played behind James Brewer, Ereck Flowers, John Jerry and the rest of the rogues gallery.

I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.

Since Coughlin was hired ONLY 2008 was a dominant team.


Manning TWICE beat the #1 and #2 seed ON THE ROAD in the playoffs, before beating the #1 seed in the other conference in the Superbowl.

Twice.

Out of both of those Superbowl runs? 8-0? One home game.
You show me a person that would take Rivers' career over Eli's....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 12:13 pm : link
and I'll show you a loser.
RE: A lot of blinded homers here  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14669064 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
Yes, it is a reasonable question to ask, and arguments can be made both ways. Yes, the two SBs, and no one can take that from Eli. But year in, year out, you can argue that Rivers has played more consistently at a high level.


He played 9 games a year in Cali weather. Sure, he may have been consistently better, except when it mattered.
RE: Prove to me that ANY QB...  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14669266 x meadowlander said:
Quote:


I'm convinced that no other QB could have done what Eli did with the garbage teams he was dealt.



And here is where the Rubicon is crossed into the Land of the Absurd.

I can list quite a few more, but I suggest you reacquaint yourself with some of the work Elway did early in his career in Denver. He dragged three of the worst teams I have ever seen to the SB.

Eli isn't in the same universe as Elway as a QB.
...  
christian : 11/8/2019 12:25 pm : link
I think Manning is maybe the most overrated athlete of all time, and Rivers vs. Manning isn't even a starting point.
Eli's without a doubt.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2019 12:27 pm : link
But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.
RE: RE:  
Section331 : 11/8/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14669171 Chris684 said:
Quote:


There are a lot more "Giants fans" who feel this way. A lot more.

I find it so weird.


Yep, so-called Giant fans who can't wait to take a dump on the best QB this franchise has ever known.
RE:  
jhibb : 11/8/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14669083 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
another dumb interception. The BS about him being a "quiet leader" - I watched enough complete stinkers over the Eli/Coughlin era to know that no one was scared of Eli's reaction if they didn't give 100% effort or otherwise messed up.

Recall Tiki Barber's statement in the mid-2000s about how comical it was to see Eli try to take command.

He's a great person and it could have been a lot worse over the past 15 years, but I'm not going to look back at the Eli era overly fondly as many here will. How can anyone sit here and confidently say that the team overall would have been less successful with Ben or Rivers? We'll never know, but as Bill Parcells said, you are what your record says you are - and he is a .500 QB who happened to have two great playoff runs, but little more.

Sorry.


Well, the bolded is exactly right, anyway. We could have been Chargers fans.

That's the point.
....  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 12:34 pm : link
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers

This is the most ridiculous  
Oskie : 11/8/2019 12:36 pm : link
thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.
RE: ....  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers


Haha, riiiiight. Didn’t rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? He’s also had some damn good receivers.
I have always  
mattyblue : 11/8/2019 12:38 pm : link
felt that Rivers was widely overrated. I think he would never have lasted as a QB here. I would take whatever dopey expression Eli makes over Rivers temper tantrums on the field any day. Career wise it really isn’t a contest. Two heroic SB MVPs vs none.
RE: ....  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/8/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:
Quote:
Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers
so the opposite is true
I Think The Narrative  
lax counsel : 11/8/2019 12:39 pm : link
That Rivers had a more consistently high performing regular season career is a bit of a fabrication. People forget Eli had some big seasons, even after 2011. The team around him just wasn't very good. I think he had close to 70TD passes between 2014 and 2015.

I do agree he trailed of in 16 and beyond (something a lot on here do deny), but age catches up with everyone and Rivers had a better end to his career than Eli.
you take Eli  
hitdog42 : 11/8/2019 12:40 pm : link
and its not even close- not only did he win SBs, but he was the signature moment and MVP of those.
regular season career, Rivers better- but hes not Marino... so the discussion is just not worth it despite what media talking heads say
RE: This is the most ridiculous  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:
Quote:
thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.


Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.
How about we change the narrative a little bit  
mattlawson : 11/8/2019 12:42 pm : link
What other Super Bowl MVP has won a championship with less talent than the 2011 NY Giants?
RE: and I'd say doing this  
PatersonPlank : 11/8/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14669136 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
makes a lot more sense for Eli vs. Ben. It doesn't make any sense with Rivers, his career is a distant 3rd to the other 2 (and I fucking hate Roethlisberger).


It's amazing how close Eli's and Big Ben's stats are. They are basically the same person stat wise
RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
PatersonPlank : 11/8/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


Why not?
RE: RE: and I'd say doing this  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14669332 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:


It's amazing how close Eli's and Big Ben's stats are. They are basically the same person stat wise


Roeth has a materially higher completion %, a considerably better TD/INT ratio, 50 less INTs, almost a full yard better YPA, a much better rating and QBR, and more game winning drives.

So I'm not sure what you are looking at...

RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


No, they wouldn't. Marino is the greatest QB by far to never win a Superbowl. Just an amazing individual player. It would be like Peyton Manning never winning a Superbowl.

What do you think Marino would rather have at the end of the day, though? Lots of records? Or a championship?

Why not ask him?

Quote:
One only prize eluded Marino. Just once did he play in the Super Bowl, and Miami lost. "I'd trade every record we broke to be Super Bowl champs," he said.

He doesn't even bother wearing his 1984 AFC championship ring. "A loser's ring," he said.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
x meadowlander : 11/8/2019 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14669309 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.
Those teams were streaky as hell, would get off to strong starts of the 5-1 variety, then fall apart and suffer horrible Decembers.

These were good, not 'dominant' teams. One and done in 05' and 06', 07' was a late season, injury-riddled trainwreck that backed into the playoffs. Once they got healthy, they became the 08' powerhouse that was the best in the NFC, arguably the best in the league til' Plax shot himself and that team in the ass.

After that, I'd argue it was all Eli - 2011 was a team I completely gave up on, ruining their playoff chances with a late season collapse against the Skins, again somehow backing in and this time it was Eli getting himself into the Hall of Fame.

No, he's not Elway. I wasn't comparing him to John Elway or Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. The comparison was to Rivers, and I'd hold that comparison against Peyton or Brady or any other. 2011 was insane and what Eli went through afterwards was too. He deserved better.

'any other'  
x meadowlander : 11/8/2019 12:54 pm : link
'any other QB of Eli's era'...
Rivers was surrounded by more talent and still couldn't win  
weeg in the bronx : 11/8/2019 12:59 pm : link
When comparing players at the same position. If you look at Charger Pro Bowl players during Rivers career, he was generally surrounded by more talent, which includes two HOF players at the primes of their careers.
OL: 5 players with 9 PB seasons
WR: 3 with 7 PB years
RB: 3 with 8 PB years
TE: 1 with 8 PB years


Manning
OL:3 players with 8 PB seasons (should note that these guys made PB during SB seasons)
WR: 3 with 5 PB
RB: 2 with 4 years
TE: 1 with 2 years
can you imagine Tomlinson and Gates  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 1:05 pm : link
on the Giants with Eli, all in their primes?

Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.
RE: If what they're asking  
FStubbs : 11/8/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14669180 Gman11 said:
Quote:
is what career would I take ...

Well, without looking it up, Rivers probably has the better regular season stats. He probably has less non-winning seasons.

Still, the name of the game is to win a championship. If I could be the MVP of the biggest game in sports and do it twice all the rest is just window dressing.


This.

Over the balance of their careers, Rivers played with a much better roster, and has no rings to show for it.

That's the bottom line.
RE: RE: This is the most ridiculous  
FStubbs : 11/8/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14669327 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14669318 Oskie said:


Quote:


thread, in a week full of ridiculous threads. Philip Rivers never won sh*t, end of story, end of comparison.



Winning is indeed an important criteria. But you can't overweight it either.

For example, Marino didn't win the SB. And no one in their right mind would even spend 20 seconds trying to make a case Eli is in Marino's league as a QB.


Marino is an outlier who posted modern day type passing stats back in the 80s. You can't compare him to Rivers.
RE: RE: Eli's without a doubt.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/8/2019 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14669347 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 14669309 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


But anyone who thinks Eli had "garbage teams" from 2005 to 2011 is lost. From 2012 to now? Sure. But 2005 to 2011 had alot of great talent, and an especially great OLine those years.

Those teams were streaky as hell, would get off to strong starts of the 5-1 variety, then fall apart and suffer horrible Decembers.

These were good, not 'dominant' teams. One and done in 05' and 06', 07' was a late season, injury-riddled trainwreck that backed into the playoffs. Once they got healthy, they became the 08' powerhouse that was the best in the NFC, arguably the best in the league til' Plax shot himself and that team in the ass.

After that, I'd argue it was all Eli - 2011 was a team I completely gave up on, ruining their playoff chances with a late season collapse against the Skins, again somehow backing in and this time it was Eli getting himself into the Hall of Fame.

No, he's not Elway. I wasn't comparing him to John Elway or Joe Montana or Johnny Unitas. The comparison was to Rivers, and I'd hold that comparison against Peyton or Brady or any other. 2011 was insane and what Eli went through afterwards was too. He deserved better.


Never said they were dominant teams. They weren't. But they still had a load of talent from 2005-2011. Especially that OLine which you could make the case was the best OL in the league in that time period. Tiki, Jacobs, Bradshaw, Plax, Shockey, Tuck, Webster, Osi, Kiwi, Strahan (from 2005-2007), Toomer (2005-2008), and others.

2012 to now has been a disaster.
Eli by a mile  
nochance : 11/8/2019 1:18 pm : link
Rivers was a stat padding FF type of QB. Comparing him to Eli is like comparing the Jets Kenny O'Brien with Phil Simms. Stats are very Misleading. How many Years were the Chargers favorites to go and win the SB under Rivers yet only made it to 1 AFC championship game and failed
RE: RE: ....  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14669320 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:


Quote:


Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers




Haha, riiiiight. Didn’t rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? He’s also had some damn good receivers.


I am speaking more about “team” talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But they’ve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?

Let’s not act like our defense didn’t win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.



For example, here’s the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 – 32nd
2011 – 17th
2012 – 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th

I don't get it  
Bruner4329 : 11/8/2019 1:30 pm : link
Rivers has had a very good career but he has come up short a lot. His shining moment was playing with a bad knee in the AFC playoffs. I don't watch Charger games that often but at times he often makes a bad play in clutch time. Just like last night. Down 2 with 50 something seconds to go and he throws that dumb interception. Have seen that a few times with this guy. If I am not mistaken how many comeback wins in the last few minutes has Eli had in his career? I thought it was quite a few and could have been a lot more over the last 2-3 years if we had any semblance of a defense.
RE: can you imagine Tomlinson and Gates  
riceneggs : 11/8/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14669372 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
on the Giants with Eli, all in their primes?

Haha. That talent statement is one of the dumbest things I've read on BBI.


team talent bro.

Can you imagine Rivers with Strahan, Tuck, Osi, Pierce, Antrelle Rolle, Cofield

You can't argue that Eli has had better defenses over the years than Rivers.
RE: RE: RE: ....  
Britt in VA : 11/8/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14669401 riceneggs said:
Quote:
In comment 14669320 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 14669314 riceneggs said:


Quote:


Rivers is way more talented than Eli.

Eli has always had more talent around him than Rivers




Haha, riiiiight. Didn’t rivers play with his generations best RB and arguably TE? He’s also had some damn good receivers.



I am speaking more about “team” talent. Yes, he had all time legends in LT and Gates. And Keenan Allen will go down as one of the best WR. But they’ve always finished at the bottom of the league in total defense. If the GM would've made an effort to build a strong defense, I think Rivers would have more playoffs appearances. no?

Let’s not act like our defense didn’t win that game against the undefeated Patriots. And the clutch game against the Packers.



For example, here’s the Chargers total defense ranks in the last years
2010 – 32nd
2011 – 17th
2012 – 24th
2013 - 10th (good year)
2014 - 24th
2015 - 13th
2016 - 17th
2017 - 18th
2018 - 24th


And Manning's:

2010 - 17th
2011 - 25th
2012 - 12th
2013 - 18th
2014 - 22nd
2015 - 30th
2016 - 2nd
2017 - 27th
2018 - 23rd

Explain to me how Manning had "better" defenses?
I challenge you to go look up  
UConn4523 : 11/8/2019 1:33 pm : link
the Giants ranks during that timespan as well.

Also I don't know what you are going off of. Chargers ranked in the top 10 in both yards and points allowed so far in 2019, 2018, 2010, and 2006. And a few other years where one or the other was top 10.

The Giants - 2 years ranked top 10 in both, 2008 and 2016. The idea that the Giants had a historically better defense during the 2 QB's tenures just isn't true. And what happens in the season doesn't correlate to the playoffs anyway. The Giants defense stepped up during their 2 SB wins, they weren't some all time great defense those 2 seasons.
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