So something that stuck out to me was a recent post, where Janoris Jenkins had to tell DB to take mental reps when he was on the bike during training camp. He took the position that he was injured so he didnt "have to do shit."
Now we are hearing reports about a shitty work ethic and quite frankly he sounds like a moron. Not that you need to be a genius to play CB in the NFL, but he seems to be on another level of stupidity. We traded up to get this guy. What is all this talk about culture when you are taking guys like this in the first round?
I'm a big believer in DG, but this pick, and what we know about him, is kind of making me start to question if he is the guy.
Were YOU aware of his alleged shitty work ethic prior to the draft?
Setting aside for a moment the Giants front office, I think it's hilarious how you guys get up in arms about stuff like this in November. Come April, you will all once again be running your mouths and spouting uneducated opinions about draft prospects only to deride the Giants months later for taking the very players that you applauded in April.
Just an observation. Lots of vocal opinions. Little knowledge. I obviously can't take you guys seriously in April, why should assume you know wtf you are talking about now?
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In comment 14669576 Touchdown maker said:
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In comment 14669567 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 14669518 Sy'56 said:
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about this during scouting process. So if I had access to that kind of info, so did they.
Well at least we traded up to get him when there were two other similarly graded CBs right there....
Who says there were two players similarly graded? The giants didn’t think so. They may be right, they may be wrong. But if you’re referring to general consensus about grades of players you must be horrified they took Jones who universally slammed.
The giants stink but that doesn’t mean every young struggling player also stinks., We don’t have to question everything!
Yes, I'm going by consensus grades. Which has its pluses and minuses, as you pointed out.
By failing to point it out yourself it seems you use it when convenient lol...
Huh? I rarely talk about the draft so I don't know what you're talking about. In general, the draft is a crap shoot which is why it's better to have more picks. If you want to trade away picks to move up for a guy you'd better be right about him. Belichick his entire career has amassed picks because he has understood this. Flores is now doing the same thing in Miami. Gettleman traded picks to move up; it's early, but so far it looks like he was wrong on the guy. In retrospect--so far--he probably should have stayed put and drafted more players. Hopefully Baker turns it around.
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unlikely than likely. First round prospects should be as clean as possible, so we took a guy that has good film, but doesn't have the athletic profile of a good number 1, and has questionable work ethic issues to boot.
Were YOU aware of his alleged shitty work ethic prior to the draft?
Setting aside for a moment the Giants front office, I think it's hilarious how you guys get up in arms about stuff like this in November. Come April, you will all once again be running your mouths and spouting uneducated opinions about draft prospects only to deride the Giants months later for taking the very players that you applauded in April.
Just an observation. Lots of vocal opinions. Little knowledge. I obviously can't take you guys seriously in April, why should assume you know wtf you are talking about now?
Uhh if you read the fucking thread SY said he knew about it, and if he did, the Giants most certainly did.
One - That's a third round pick. Two-Talib is a great corner that has show he can play in this already. Three - Talib's problem is he is an asshole, not his work ethic. So I don't know why you keep bringing him up.
what i'm mad about is we traded up for a CB when we could've stayed put and got like 5 different Tackles, a much bigger need considering we have had one of the worst lines the last DECADE.
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and has rolled the dice on numerous others. Sometimes it works out for him and sometimes it doesn't (like Antonio Brown).
One - That's a third round pick. Two-Talib is a great corner that has show he can play in this already. Three - Talib's problem is he is an asshole, not his work ethic. So I don't know why you keep bringing him up.
Quite literally the title of your thread is "Giants ability to scout personality" - wouldn't you say being an asshole is a relevant personality flaw as part of that discussion?
I brought up Talib as an example of Jim's point in response to the comment that "belichek wouldn't add a guy like that" because Talib is exactly a guy like that and probably even worse.
Not sure exactly what you are trying to argue against as I agree with your premise - Baker appears to be an asshole and in the mold of what they've supposedly trying to avoid. And to date his play has been even worse than his attitude. I was just making the point that the great Bill Belichek would trade for a player like that if he believed he could help his team win on the field and succeed in his program. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. And it's still obviously very much an open question whether or not Baker will ultimate perform on the field.
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In comment 14669611 Eric on Li said:
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and has rolled the dice on numerous others. Sometimes it works out for him and sometimes it doesn't (like Antonio Brown).
One - That's a third round pick. Two-Talib is a great corner that has show he can play in this already. Three - Talib's problem is he is an asshole, not his work ethic. So I don't know why you keep bringing him up.
Quite literally the title of your thread is "Giants ability to scout personality" - wouldn't you say being an asshole is a relevant personality flaw as part of that discussion?
I brought up Talib as an example of Jim's point in response to the comment that "belichek wouldn't add a guy like that" because Talib is exactly a guy like that and probably even worse.
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While attending the NFL's rookie symposium, Talib got into a fight with fellow rookie and teammate Cory Boyd. He also overslept and missed a flight to Canton, Ohio for a mandatory rookie function at the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Talib also missed team meetings during organized team activities and training camp his rookie season.
Not sure exactly what you are trying to argue against as I agree with your premise - Baker appears to be an asshole and in the mold of what they've supposedly trying to avoid. And to date his play has been even worse than his attitude. I was just making the point that the great Bill Belichek would trade for a player like that if he believed he could help his team win on the field and succeed in his program. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. And it's still obviously very much an open question whether or not Baker will ultimate perform on the field.
Belichick got the guy after he already proved for several years he could play in the NFL, so that is not an apples to apples comparison at all.
by drafting him in the first you get the fifth year on the rookie deal.
If you love the kid go up and get him
this team had no CB last year and this was a huge position of need.
for a rookie CB he has performed decent and is learning.
The learning curve from CB in college to NFL is steep.
He is facing grown men that know all the nuances of the game. He obviously has the physical tools to play the position
Yes talent can overcome that to a degree, didn't work in Gettleman's eye's with OBJ, but to spend an entire off-season getting rid of these guys only to draft a guy like Baker has to have you questioning DG's motives.
Him not understanding the defense is normal just like it’s normal for Jones to not understand what he’s seeing. It’s part of the process of being a young player in the NFL. There seems to be a lot of panic about baker but jones play has been just as uneven, if not worse, than Bakers IMO.
This thread wasn't started to discuss stupid play or even uneven play by Baker. Which is why it is silly that you are continuing to bring up Jones, as it seems you have an axe to grind with DJ. It isn't about making mistakes, its about work ethic, awareness, and the comments that Baker has made and the notes mentioned from scouting him. Cut the whataboutism out.
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about this during scouting process. So if I had access to that kind of info, so did they.
This entire front office needs to go. The fact that they traded UP to get Baker is laughable.
Yeah, why would anyone want the highest rated CB in the draft? What were they thinking?
I think some of you need to go.
You guys understand that the after QB(and in some cases before) the OLine are the smartest guys on the field. After that, who the heck knows..
Belichick got the guy after he already proved for several years he could play in the NFL, so that is not an apples to apples comparison at all.
I brought Talib up specifically in response to a comment to the effect of "Belichek doesn't take a chance on guys like that". I have zero disagreement that Talib was more proven when acquired, but he was still a guy like that.
If you agree that Belichek takes a chance on guys like that if they have enough talent then we are in agreement. Whether or not Baker has enough talent is a totally separate question. He may or he may not.
I knew he was very cocky but didn’t realize there may be some bigger issues as implied by Sy.
So if that’s true, did DG just ignore them and write them off as immaterial? Or did DG not do his homework and now we potentially have a problem player?
Let’s hope this is somewhat overblown. But it’s definitely now on the radar...
In watching and listening to Baker I believe he's improving as a player and overall I think he's a 'good guy'. If we can exhibit a little patience(/gasp) we'll have a good starting CB imo.
In watching and listening to Baker I believe he's improving as a player and overall I think he's a 'good guy'. If we can exhibit a little patience(/gasp) we'll have a good starting CB imo.
They are two distinct things but their tends to be a correlation between the two. Telling Janoris he doesn't need to do mental reps when he's riding the bike demonstrates a lack of both.
The way he went up to the podium, was interviewed. and his character getting off it, that’s all I needed to see to know that he makes Eli Apple look mature and like Einstein. Thats hard to do.
Not sure what you're agenda here is but you seem to have one.
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Belichick got the guy after he already proved for several years he could play in the NFL, so that is not an apples to apples comparison at all.
I brought Talib up specifically in response to a comment to the effect of "Belichek doesn't take a chance on guys like that". I have zero disagreement that Talib was more proven when acquired, but he was still a guy like that.
If you agree that Belichek takes a chance on guys like that if they have enough talent then we are in agreement. Whether or not Baker has enough talent is a totally separate question. He may or he may not.
There's a huge difference between having a questionable work ethic and being an asshole. You probably want a certain amount of assholes on a football team. I'll take assholes all day, but questionable work ethic? Get off my team. That shit is poisonous to a lockerroom, one guy isn't putting in the effort and that shit catches on. I don't think doing your job is asking too much
Yeah theres plent of assholes that work hard, actually I don't know too many assholes that don't work hard. Gotta cash those checks their mouth is making.
But fortunately football is not a game for geniuses, So he will get better . In contrast, Aaron Ross was very smart and played well his first yeAr but never got any better
However, understanding it and doing it are two different things.
I have no idea what John Ledyard's credentials are, but it aligns exactly with the OP.
@03:23 he drops the character bomb on Baker.
Listen from 2:00 mark - ( New Window )
Blame auto correct, that s what we all do.
They also would not have a guy like jackrabbit telling a rookie to fake an injury to get out of working hard. That shit simply will not happen there. Instead, most (not all) of their guys are likely telling rookies how hard they need to work to stay on the team and get into the starting lineup.
I have no idea what John Ledyard's credentials are, but it aligns exactly with the OP.
@03:23 he drops the character bomb on Baker.
Listen from 2:00 mark - ( New Window )
Bingo. Don't know who that guy is but this is what I'm essentially saying "I love the swagger, but the work ethic needs to match because he just isn't naturally talented enough." Thats exactly what I said! Is he going to be a solid number 2 corner in this league? Probably, maybe even a decent number 1. The problem I have is having guys with shitty work ethic, that behavior is contagious in a locker room, and he just doesn't have the talent to justify it.
Dre may turn out to stink but this talk is premature...just like any talk about jones being a franchise qb or not would be wildly premature.
Yup, great post.
Probably Byron Murphy, who would have been my target if we were going CB, but that is either here nor there.
Second, some players have harder time digesting play book
Third, being a rookie takes time to learn what it takes to be a pro.
Fourth, he has been playing much better since beginning of season
Fifth, probably not a good idea trying to evaluate a player based on media snippets
He's a rookie, it's an adjustment. Some guys do better than others
Prince ? Eli Apple ??? Come on man, these 2 were taken higher .
Our DB’s look bad at times but they can’t cover forever, lack of a consistent pass rush kills them.
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unlikely than likely. First round prospects should be as clean as possible, so we took a guy that has good film, but doesn't have the athletic profile of a good number 1, and has questionable work ethic issues to boot.
Prince ? Eli Apple ??? Come on man, these 2 were taken higher .
Our DB’s look bad at times but they can’t cover forever, lack of a consistent pass rush kills them.
Eli Apple was an awful, awful pick where we took him. His tape didn't even justify the pick, his measurable did. He was a grabby corner in college with no ball skills. Than you add in the zero life skills comment. I still can't be believe we took him there. And Prince wasn't a bad pick. He's going to finish with a nice career.
People are still missing the point of this thread, it isn't that Baker sucks, he's a rookie corner that isn't the point. The point is all this talk about culture and what not, and we traded up to get a guy with a known work ethic problem. I could probably live with that if he had the elite athletic profile to match the type, but he doesn't. This attitude is also infectious. Can he turn it around? Maybe, but all this talk about culture and than to trade up for a guy with questionable work ethic leaves me scratching my head.
Gonna hold judgement , But the Coach has to recognise and
call him out chew him out if needed this is why
I have zero faith in Shurmur .
It'd be an easy step to say that the Giants knew a shitload more about Baker than Sy did. And no one here knows anything about what the Giants knew or ultimately based their pick on.