So something that stuck out to me was a recent post, where Janoris Jenkins had to tell DB to take mental reps when he was on the bike during training camp. He took the position that he was injured so he didnt "have to do shit."
Now we are hearing reports about a shitty work ethic and quite frankly he sounds like a moron. Not that you need to be a genius to play CB in the NFL, but he seems to be on another level of stupidity. We traded up to get this guy. What is all this talk about culture when you are taking guys like this in the first round?
I'm a big believer in DG, but this pick, and what we know about him, is kind of making me start to question if he is the guy.
We have to get back to a point where our draft picks dont have to be the reason we win in year 1
I live in DC - people wanted to blow up the Capitals a few years back, including trading away Ovechkin. In June of this year, people were saying the Nationals should be big-time sellers in the trade market. Can you imagine?
The Giants are a very young team. Baker's played what, 8 games in his professional career and not only are you ready to cast him aside, but Gettleman too?
I mean come on. Get a grip. Has Baker should improvement? Absolutely. Can he cover? Yes. Is he a building block that needs to get better, sure. Does he need to mature? Of course he does, but he's a friggin rookie for Pete's sake - what rookie doesn't need to mature?
Not an uncommon occurrence. Many times these guys figure it out after a while on the professional level. It s a maturity thing. Too soon to think it wont change.
The guy has talent. Corey Webster anyone?
Dre may turn out to stink but this talk is premature...just like any talk about jones being a franchise qb or not would be wildly premature.
I agree with those who questioned the pick and still do since they were so aggressive with the trade up, not to mention how they've pretty much handed him playing time. How it turns out remains to be seen though. He's improved enough over the year that there's still some reason to be hopeful even if not optimistic.
I live in DC - people wanted to blow up the Capitals a few years back, including trading away Ovechkin. In June of this year, people were saying the Nationals should be big-time sellers in the trade market. Can you imagine?
The Giants are a very young team. Baker's played what, 8 games in his professional career and not only are you ready to cast him aside, but Gettleman too?
I mean come on. Get a grip. Has Baker should improvement? Absolutely. Can he cover? Yes. Is he a building block that needs to get better, sure. Does he need to mature? Of course he does, but he's a friggin rookie for Pete's sake - what rookie doesn't need to mature?
That isn't the point. The point is all this talk about culture and we draft a guy with super questionable work ethic. And if you are so dumb you are blowing coverages at CB, I don't know what to say. Mentally it is the easiest position in the NFL. He can definetly cover, that wasn't the point of this thread though. This isn't a maturity issue, its a work ethic one, and these guys rarely turn on the light there. This was a first round pick that we traded assets to get, not a midround pick.
This entire front office needs to go. The fact that they traded UP to get Baker is laughable.
Dre may turn out to stink but this talk is premature...just like any talk about jones being a franchise qb or not would be wildly premature.
What's funny is, no one started this thread to bring up Baker is causing us to lose games. Have you read his comments or are you just choosing to ignore them or chalk them up to him being a rookie?
Him not understanding the defense is normal just like its normal for Jones to not understand what hes seeing. Its part of the process of being a young player in the NFL. There seems to be a lot of panic about baker but jones play has been just as uneven, if not worse, than Bakers IMO.
Well at least we traded up to get him when there were two other similarly graded CBs right there....
Its one thing to defend Baker but to blame Jones is just dumb. Has he made mistakes, YUP. BUT, if Manning were playing we would be lucky to have 1 win with this Oline.
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about this during scouting process. So if I had access to that kind of info, so did they.
Well at least we traded up to get him when there were two other similarly graded CBs right there....
Who says there were two players similarly graded? The giants didnt think so. They may be right, they may be wrong. But if youre referring to general consensus about grades of players you must be horrified they took Jones who universally slammed.
The giants stink but that doesnt mean every young struggling player also stinks., We dont have to question everything!
What personality issues did Collins have? Guy played his ass off here..
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In comment 14669518 Sy'56 said:
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about this during scouting process. So if I had access to that kind of info, so did they.
Well at least we traded up to get him when there were two other similarly graded CBs right there....
Who says there were two players similarly graded? The giants didnt think so. They may be right, they may be wrong. But if youre referring to general consensus about grades of players you must be horrified they took Jones who universally slammed.
The giants stink but that doesnt mean every young struggling player also stinks., We dont have to question everything!
Yes, I'm going by consensus grades. Which has its pluses and minuses, as you pointed out.
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In comment 14669567 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 14669518 Sy'56 said:
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about this during scouting process. So if I had access to that kind of info, so did they.
Well at least we traded up to get him when there were two other similarly graded CBs right there....
Who says there were two players similarly graded? The giants didnt think so. They may be right, they may be wrong. But if youre referring to general consensus about grades of players you must be horrified they took Jones who universally slammed.
The giants stink but that doesnt mean every young struggling player also stinks., We dont have to question everything!
Yes, I'm going by consensus grades. Which has its pluses and minuses, as you pointed out.
By failing to point it out yourself it seems you use it when convenient lol...
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For an organization that prides itself on avoiding red flag guys, they sure pick a lot of guys with personality issues. Flowers, Obj, Collins, Apple, Baker
What personality issues did Collins have? Guy played his ass off here..
Calling out teammates in public. Running his mouth off to Josina Anderson.
He's happy now in DC...
This entire front office needs to go. The fact that they traded UP to get Baker is laughable.
Go back to lurking.
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just . . . wow.
I live in DC - people wanted to blow up the Capitals a few years back, including trading away Ovechkin. In June of this year, people were saying the Nationals should be big-time sellers in the trade market. Can you imagine?
The Giants are a very young team. Baker's played what, 8 games in his professional career and not only are you ready to cast him aside, but Gettleman too?
I mean come on. Get a grip. Has Baker should improvement? Absolutely. Can he cover? Yes. Is he a building block that needs to get better, sure. Does he need to mature? Of course he does, but he's a friggin rookie for Pete's sake - what rookie doesn't need to mature?
This isn't a maturity issue, its a work ethic one, and these guys rarely turn on the light there.
I can think of many examples in life where they are one and the same.
Also,Couldnt disagree more with the use of the word rarely in regard to the light going on.
You think Belichik takes a guy like that on his team? I fucking doubt it. Its clear he isn't doing what he needs to do to mentally prepare if you put the pieces together on this one. Or he is so fucking dumb he is blowing assignments at corner, which while forgiveable would be a bigger problem because it isnt "fixable.
Its one thing to defend Baker but to blame Jones is just dumb. Has he made mistakes, YUP. BUT, if Manning were playing we would be lucky to have 1 win with this Oline.
👍
You think Belichik takes a guy like that on his team? I fucking doubt it. Its clear he isn't doing what he needs to do to mentally prepare if you put the pieces together on this one. Or he is so fucking dumb he is blowing assignments at corner, which while forgiveable would be a bigger problem because it isnt "fixable.
I think Belichick is all about risk vs reward so I have no doubt he would take Baker if he valued his skills enough. That being said, BB would not hold onto him once his presumed value dipped below his play.
That's not new at all.
You think Belichik takes a guy like that on his team? I fucking doubt it. Its clear he isn't doing what he needs to do to mentally prepare if you put the pieces together on this one. Or he is so fucking dumb he is blowing assignments at corner, which while forgiveable would be a bigger problem because it isnt "fixable.
I agree with this. All this talk about culture and getting rid of bad eggs, it sure as shit sounds like Baker is a bad egg. I mean earlier this week he said it wasn't his job to learn the defense. It certainly sounds like he is taking no responsibility/accountability for his actions. I hope he gets his shit together but again its the FO saying one thing and doing something completely contradictory what they said.
I mean we traded a greater talent in OBJ for the same types of issues, throwing other people under the bus, etc.
The culture/adults in the room mantra is starting to sound like such a crock of shit.
Plenty of guys have come into the league as chuckleheads and straightened out. It's not impossible.
Were YOU aware of his alleged shitty work ethic prior to the draft?
Setting aside for a moment the Giants front office, I think it's hilarious how you guys get up in arms about stuff like this in November. Come April, you will all once again be running your mouths and spouting uneducated opinions about draft prospects only to deride the Giants months later for taking the very players that you applauded in April.
Just an observation. Lots of vocal opinions. Little knowledge. I obviously can't take you guys seriously in April, why should assume you know wtf you are talking about now?
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In comment 14669576 Touchdown maker said:
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In comment 14669567 Mike from SI said:
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In comment 14669518 Sy'56 said:
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about this during scouting process. So if I had access to that kind of info, so did they.
Well at least we traded up to get him when there were two other similarly graded CBs right there....
Who says there were two players similarly graded? The giants didnt think so. They may be right, they may be wrong. But if youre referring to general consensus about grades of players you must be horrified they took Jones who universally slammed.
The giants stink but that doesnt mean every young struggling player also stinks., We dont have to question everything!
Yes, I'm going by consensus grades. Which has its pluses and minuses, as you pointed out.
By failing to point it out yourself it seems you use it when convenient lol...
Huh? I rarely talk about the draft so I don't know what you're talking about. In general, the draft is a crap shoot which is why it's better to have more picks. If you want to trade away picks to move up for a guy you'd better be right about him. Belichick his entire career has amassed picks because he has understood this. Flores is now doing the same thing in Miami. Gettleman traded picks to move up; it's early, but so far it looks like he was wrong on the guy. In retrospect--so far--he probably should have stayed put and drafted more players. Hopefully Baker turns it around.
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unlikely than likely. First round prospects should be as clean as possible, so we took a guy that has good film, but doesn't have the athletic profile of a good number 1, and has questionable work ethic issues to boot.
Were YOU aware of his alleged shitty work ethic prior to the draft?
Setting aside for a moment the Giants front office, I think it's hilarious how you guys get up in arms about stuff like this in November. Come April, you will all once again be running your mouths and spouting uneducated opinions about draft prospects only to deride the Giants months later for taking the very players that you applauded in April.
Just an observation. Lots of vocal opinions. Little knowledge. I obviously can't take you guys seriously in April, why should assume you know wtf you are talking about now?
Uhh if you read the fucking thread SY said he knew about it, and if he did, the Giants most certainly did.
One - That's a third round pick. Two-Talib is a great corner that has show he can play in this already. Three - Talib's problem is he is an asshole, not his work ethic. So I don't know why you keep bringing him up.
what i'm mad about is we traded up for a CB when we could've stayed put and got like 5 different Tackles, a much bigger need considering we have had one of the worst lines the last DECADE.
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and has rolled the dice on numerous others. Sometimes it works out for him and sometimes it doesn't (like Antonio Brown).
One - That's a third round pick. Two-Talib is a great corner that has show he can play in this already. Three - Talib's problem is he is an asshole, not his work ethic. So I don't know why you keep bringing him up.
Quite literally the title of your thread is "Giants ability to scout personality" - wouldn't you say being an asshole is a relevant personality flaw as part of that discussion?
I brought up Talib as an example of Jim's point in response to the comment that "belichek wouldn't add a guy like that" because Talib is exactly a guy like that and probably even worse.
Not sure exactly what you are trying to argue against as I agree with your premise - Baker appears to be an asshole and in the mold of what they've supposedly trying to avoid. And to date his play has been even worse than his attitude. I was just making the point that the great Bill Belichek would trade for a player like that if he believed he could help his team win on the field and succeed in his program. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. And it's still obviously very much an open question whether or not Baker will ultimate perform on the field.
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In comment 14669611 Eric on Li said:
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and has rolled the dice on numerous others. Sometimes it works out for him and sometimes it doesn't (like Antonio Brown).
One - That's a third round pick. Two-Talib is a great corner that has show he can play in this already. Three - Talib's problem is he is an asshole, not his work ethic. So I don't know why you keep bringing him up.
Quite literally the title of your thread is "Giants ability to scout personality" - wouldn't you say being an asshole is a relevant personality flaw as part of that discussion?
I brought up Talib as an example of Jim's point in response to the comment that "belichek wouldn't add a guy like that" because Talib is exactly a guy like that and probably even worse.
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While attending the NFL's rookie symposium, Talib got into a fight with fellow rookie and teammate Cory Boyd. He also overslept and missed a flight to Canton, Ohio for a mandatory rookie function at the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Talib also missed team meetings during organized team activities and training camp his rookie season.
Not sure exactly what you are trying to argue against as I agree with your premise - Baker appears to be an asshole and in the mold of what they've supposedly trying to avoid. And to date his play has been even worse than his attitude. I was just making the point that the great Bill Belichek would trade for a player like that if he believed he could help his team win on the field and succeed in his program. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. And it's still obviously very much an open question whether or not Baker will ultimate perform on the field.
Belichick got the guy after he already proved for several years he could play in the NFL, so that is not an apples to apples comparison at all.
by drafting him in the first you get the fifth year on the rookie deal.
If you love the kid go up and get him
this team had no CB last year and this was a huge position of need.
for a rookie CB he has performed decent and is learning.
The learning curve from CB in college to NFL is steep.
He is facing grown men that know all the nuances of the game. He obviously has the physical tools to play the position
Yes talent can overcome that to a degree, didn't work in Gettleman's eye's with OBJ, but to spend an entire off-season getting rid of these guys only to draft a guy like Baker has to have you questioning DG's motives.