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Simms says he believes Shurmur will be back next year

Wiggy : 11/8/2019 5:02 pm
No matter how the season plays out. Today on Simms and the Mad Dog. Unfortunately I think he may be right.
Not a surprise...  
Milton : 11/8/2019 5:09 pm : link
He should be back.
I sports love Phil.  
arniefez : 11/8/2019 5:10 pm : link
I'll always sport s love Phil. But he thought he'd be back too in 1994. if the Giants are 3-13 or even 4-12 we'll see. 6 or 7 wins yup the incompetent loser will be back and he'll fit right in with the rest of the organization.
Do does one of our resident asshats  
Diver_Down : 11/8/2019 5:12 pm : link
.
Shurmur is safe, but Bettcher is likely gone - ( New Window )
Great news!  
micky : 11/8/2019 5:12 pm : link
.
So does one of our resident asshats  
Diver_Down : 11/8/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14669701 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
. Shurmur is safe, but Bettcher is likely gone - ( New Window )
Hopefully the Jets can shake things up this weekend  
Oscar : 11/8/2019 5:16 pm : link
If this season finishes at 4-12, 5-11 again and Shurmur is retained, it confirms what we all essentially know which is that McAdoo was fired as a reaction to the public outcry around Eliís benching. That is it, nothing else.

Donít think I can stomach another offseason where they shuffle the assistant coaches and Mara does his ďnobody is more upset than I am, everyone is on noticeĒ routine. Unfortunately I suspect thatís whatís coming, stability for the sake of stability with the party line that this is whatís good for the young quarterback.

I genuinely hope the Jets kick their fucking asses this weekend. Run it up big. Leave no doubt whatsoever. It is the only thing that Mara wonít be able to ignore.
There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
Go Terps : 11/8/2019 5:18 pm : link
There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.
RE: Not a surprise...  
HomerJones45 : 11/8/2019 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14669698 Milton said:
Quote:
He should be back.
He shouldn't and if the players tank on him, as they probably will, he'll be gone.
RE: Do does one of our resident asshats  
FranknWeezer : 11/8/2019 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14669701 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
. Shurmur is safe, but Bettcher is likely gone - ( New Window )


Who was the asshat in that thread? It's not jumping out at me.
17-41.  
bceagle05 : 11/8/2019 5:19 pm : link
.
Peppers?  
FranknWeezer : 11/8/2019 5:20 pm : link
Guess it's him. Hadn't noticed him dropping inside info before, but I'll pay better attention to his posts next time.
RE: RE: Do does one of our resident asshats  
Diver_Down : 11/8/2019 5:20 pm : link
In comment 14669708 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 14669701 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


. Shurmur is safe, but Bettcher is likely gone - ( New Window )



Who was the asshat in that thread? It's not jumping out at me.


The link takes you to the top most comment made by Peppers. He doesn't comment often. Never starts threads with asshat declarations. He stays low and will drop nuggets buried in threads from time to time.
RE: RE: RE: Do does one of our resident asshats  
FranknWeezer : 11/8/2019 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14669713 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14669708 FranknWeezer said:


Quote:


In comment 14669701 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


. Shurmur is safe, but Bettcher is likely gone - ( New Window )



Who was the asshat in that thread? It's not jumping out at me.



The link takes you to the top most comment made by Peppers. He doesn't comment often. Never starts threads with asshat declarations. He stays low and will drop nuggets buried in threads from time to time.


Gotcha- thanks.
If Shurmur is back  
GIANTS128 : 11/8/2019 5:36 pm : link
He needs to give up playcalling. Bring someone in to be the OC. He needs to be focused on game management and to be honest he is a shitty play caller.
Remember Fassel?  
an_idol_mind : 11/8/2019 5:37 pm : link
Won the division in 1997, took the team to the Super Bowl in 2000, made a playoff run in 2002, fired when the team tanked in 2003.

The Giants used to see this kind of losing as unacceptable. Heck, Coughlin's record from his last two seasons will probably exceed Shurmur's these last two years. It's weird to think that winning coaches have been fired for this type of performance but that Shurmur might survive.
RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
Nine-Tails : 11/8/2019 5:38 pm : link
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.


Regarding another head coaching job, we have to improve our process. A lot of teams identify a guy they like and put out a full court press. While Mara is like we're open for buisness, who's interested, thus leading to poor candidates hoping for a head coaching job.
RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.


God bless you, Terps, you are always a good read.

But attempting to apply logic to the Three Stooges of Jints Central - DG, Mara, and Tisch - is an exercise in futility.
RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
.McL. : 11/8/2019 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.

And if there is no logical reason to retain Shurmur, there is no logical reason to keep DG, as you have eloquently argues in the past.

Frankly, I wish Mara and Tisch would sell the team. THey are good people, just not good football owners. Tisch might be ok, he knows he doesn't know football and I don't think he meddles much.
If the  
Les in TO : 11/8/2019 6:11 pm : link
Season continues itís ugly regression and fans start revolting Mara will crap his pants and make a change.
'Simms says he believes Shurmur will be back next year'  
Torrag : 11/8/2019 6:17 pm : link
I thought so too but I'm wavering. he's been really bad at a lot of important facets of the job. I'm having trouble finding one he's doing well.

Still I said the other day it's probably 50/50. The rest of the season will have an impact.
If the Defense canít get itís act together by EOY then,  
morrison40 : 11/8/2019 6:20 pm : link
Iíd favor a reset with a new DC , 2 yrs of failure is too much.
RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
Sean : 11/8/2019 6:27 pm : link
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.


Very well said. As Lombardi mentioned, the Giants are approaching a crucial fork in the road.

Retaining Shurmur is a massive vote of confidence for a guy who is 7-18 as NYG HC & likely will be no better than 10-22 at seasons end. 2 years as HC is sufficient time to see what you have - plenty of coaches have been 1 & done. 2 years is more than fair to Shurmur.

The issue is Gettleman though. With Gettleman in place, it reduces the pool of candidates greatly - most young/promising HCís will be very selective in where they go & they absolutely will want say in personnel and a good working relationship with the GM.
I'm glad Phil said this.  
Mr. Bungle : 11/8/2019 6:54 pm : link
Because Phil is often wrong, like when he said, "Look out for Marvin Austin this year" during 2012 training camp.

The verdict is already in with Shurmur, and there are still seven dreadful games to go. He'll only look worse by the time January 1 rolls around.
RE: Not a surprise...  
WalterSobchak : 11/8/2019 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14669698 Milton said:
Quote:
He should be back.

Why ? Because of his amazing 17 and 41 carreer record ? Or maybe his brilliantly called offense ?
The only thing I can see is the Giants figuring that no halfway  
jcn56 : 11/8/2019 8:27 pm : link
decent coach worth will take the job if they do, knowing that Gettleman is on thin ice at that point if he's not whacked along with Shurmur.

Otherwise, like Terps, I can't think of a single point in his defense.
RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
EricJ : 11/8/2019 8:41 pm : link
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:
[quote] There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible. [/quote

Okay let me propose a few alternate possibilities...
1. Mara is afraid to fire Shurmur so quickly because it signals that they dont know WTF they are doing (ie original decision to hire him was wrong).
2. The Giants hired Shurmur to begin with because he has a track record of working with QBs and they knew they would be moving on from Eli.
3. You see a couple of DBs look like they did not put in the effort needed but for the most part the team is playing hard and trying. Your idea that the players as a whole are not trying is BS
I really hope Simms is wrong  
Jay on the Island : 11/8/2019 8:47 pm : link
I am starting to like the possibility of hiring Kris Richard especially if he brings along Rod Marinelli as his DC.
RE: RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
bw in dc : 11/8/2019 9:52 pm : link
In comment 14669823 EricJ said:
Quote:

Okay let me propose a few alternate possibilities...

1. Mara is afraid to fire Shurmur so quickly because it signals that they dont know WTF they are doing (ie original decision to hire him was wrong).



I think this is very much in the calculus for Mara.

I could hear the thinking right now. Mara: "If I fire Shurmur this would be the second coach in a row let go after only two seasons. That has to signal chaos and incompetence. And more of that can't be good for my franchise..."

So I think the odds are > 66% that Shurmur stays. I don't endorse the idea, but I can easily see Mara tacking this way..
EricJ  
Go Terps : 11/8/2019 10:12 pm : link
Go back and rewatch the games. Watch the all 22. Read Sy's game reviews. After doing that, tell me that Barkley isn't playing soft, Solder is putting in maximum effort and focus, Hernandez is playing with total focus, and on and on...

I'm going to keep saying it over the next two months regardless of whether the Giants win or lose all their games:

There is no rational argument for retaining Pat Shurmur as the head coach one more minute.
Optimistically  
santacruzom : 11/9/2019 12:46 am : link
Shurmur's career record will be 20-45 at the end if this season. How could they possibly just accept that?
I'm not a fan of Shurmur  
PaulBlakeTSU : 11/9/2019 6:50 am : link
and haven't seen much that signals that he is a guy we have to keep. But over the last 10 years

Quote:
2010: 10-6: Coughin, Reese
2011: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese *****
2012: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese
2013: 7-9: Coughlin, Reese
2014: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2015: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2016: 11-5: McAdoo, Reese
2017: 3:13: McAdoo, Reese
2018: 5-11: Shurmur, Gettleman
2019: 2-7: Shurmur, Gettleman



And this was with having a potential HOF QB who started over 200 games in a row.

The last few years of Coughlin were dreadful (I remember 38-0 blowouts to the Ravens, blowouts to the Falcons, failing to score 30 points once). The McAdoo era was bad in the aggregate (despite a fluky 11-5 year of close wins and McAdoo wanting Mahomes), and now it's awful under Shurmur.

Ever since 2010 or so, Reese destroyed the franchise by falling over potential JPP freaks like Adrian Robinson, Damontre Moore, Ramses Barden, 8 running backs,, etc. instead of focusing on the trenches.

At a certain point, it doesn't seem to matter who is coaching this team. It is a clusterfuck and so until the franchise fixes what is poisoning the water (the Maras?), it's hard to really evaluate the coach.
RE: I'm not a fan of Shurmur  
nzyme : 11/9/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14669992 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
and haven't seen much that signals that he is a guy we have to keep. But over the last 10 years



Quote:


2010: 10-6: Coughin, Reese
2011: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese *****
2012: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese
2013: 7-9: Coughlin, Reese
2014: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2015: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2016: 11-5: McAdoo, Reese
2017: 3:13: McAdoo, Reese
2018: 5-11: Shurmur, Gettleman
2019: 2-7: Shurmur, Gettleman




And this was with having a potential HOF QB who started over 200 games in a row.

The last few years of Coughlin were dreadful (I remember 38-0 blowouts to the Ravens, blowouts to the Falcons, failing to score 30 points once). The McAdoo era was bad in the aggregate (despite a fluky 11-5 year of close wins and McAdoo wanting Mahomes), and now it's awful under Shurmur.

Ever since 2010 or so, Reese destroyed the franchise by falling over potential JPP freaks like Adrian Robinson, Damontre Moore, Ramses Barden, 8 running backs,, etc. instead of focusing on the trenches.

At a certain point, it doesn't seem to matter who is coaching this team. It is a clusterfuck and so until the franchise fixes what is poisoning the water (the Maras?), it's hard to really evaluate the coach.


Those rosters Coughlin had were the worst! Someone on here posted the article that ESPN did on our roster. We were the worst in the league, by far, at keeping guys we drafted on the roster. I think it was only 4 during the Reese era when it was all said and done.

I don't even give Reese credit for the 2007 draft that everyone keeps lauding about. Ernie Acorsi stayed on for a bit in an advisory role which means he most certainly helped with the draft profiles and direction for that draft.
The NFL is the land of optimism in the summer. Can anyone actually  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/9/2019 8:02 am : link
get excited about this team other than Milton next July? Sure we are going to bring in a bunch of players, but we have all seen that show before, and the amount of fans that have faith in Shurmur has to be less than 10 percent at this point. There is seriously no justifiable reason to bring the guy back. He is making the same mistakes he has since he has been HC of the Browns and the team often looks poorly coached.

I would just love for someone here to name me one thing PS does well, just one. While I disagree with Terps, outside JJ and Baker, which is a them issue not a PS one, they are playing hard. That isn't a mark in the plus column! One its rare football teams quit on the season before the very end when they are completely beat up. Two, we have a very young team and these are young players playing for NFL careers, of course they are playing hard! Veterans are the ones that quit on teams, and we barely have any of those around.
Let's put it this way  
blueblood'11 : 11/9/2019 8:23 am : link
Since 2011 if you look at the way Mara and Tisch have gone about the business of re-building this team what makes anyone think there is light at the end of the tunnel.

From the mess of an offensive line that everyone knew needed to be re-tooled, to the dearth of defensive talent, to the ass backward handling of the coaching situation that culminated in the utter disaster that was McAdoo, and now this coach a proven loser.

We have seen coaches do much better with less then this guy. So here we are, and the beat goes on, saying this guy need to be replaced.

In a weird way this is like a Mara redux when Wellington Mara ushered in 18 nyears of bad footbal until Rozelle stepped in and saved the franchise. Unfortunatley there are no Rozelles around to save this version of Mara.

Bottom line, even if they fire Shurmur what makes anyone of us think they will find the right guy to turn this thing around. What makes anyone us believe Mara and Tisch will turn this thing around. It's on them and no one else. And since 2011 they have turned this team into irrelevant chicken shit.

a few more  
BigBlueCane : 11/9/2019 8:27 am : link
blowout losses and Shurmur will be gone. Those seem to be in the offering so no worries there.

Especially if those losses are the Jets and Redskins.
RE: EricJ  
UberAlias : 11/9/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14669898 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Go back and rewatch the games. Watch the all 22. Read Sy's game reviews. After doing that, tell me that Barkley isn't playing soft, Solder is putting in maximum effort and focus, Hernandez is playing with total focus, and on and on...

I'm going to keep saying it over the next two months regardless of whether the Giants win or lose all their games:

There is no rational argument for retaining Pat Shurmur as the head coach one more minute.
Youíre spot on Terps. We hired a coach who was a failure in Cleveland and made excuses for him. Heís brought the same results here óand we keep making the excuses. Is the guy ever going to have show heís a good coach, or does he have a job as long as we can point the finger elsewhere? How exactly has he earned that right with zero positive credentials as a head coach?
While I think it was time to move on from TC, what blows my mind  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/9/2019 8:54 am : link
is what we got rid of TC for, PS turns up the dial to 10 on the game mismanagement stuff and this organization wants to keep him around. TC gets thrown out with yesterday's trash, but PS gets a fucking parade for winning 5 games. It's unbelievable.

I wish the Tischs were more actively involved in the decision making in this organization. At least they have succesfully built businesses. The Maras have been coasting on the success of a patriarch that was born in in the fucking 1800's. Then the progeny essentially ran the team into the ground, but because the NFL was well established at that point its not like the business failed and the NFL stepped in and we finally found some success.
RE: Remember Fassel?  
HomerJones45 : 11/9/2019 8:58 am : link
In comment 14669721 an_idol_mind said:
Quote:
Won the division in 1997, took the team to the Super Bowl in 2000, made a playoff run in 2002, fired when the team tanked in 2003.

The Giants used to see this kind of losing as unacceptable. Heck, Coughlin's record from his last two seasons will probably exceed Shurmur's these last two years. It's weird to think that winning coaches have been fired for this type of performance but that Shurmur might survive.
Fassel had other issues that contributed. You notice he has never coached another NFL team. He came close to getting the gig with the Redskins, but Casserly torpedoed him.
There are still 7 games left before a decision will be made.  
Spider56 : 11/9/2019 9:00 am : link
I think the jury is still out and PS has 7 games to make his case. No one can be happy with where the team is now so status quo or a continued slide could mean the end...
RE: RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
HomerJones45 : 11/9/2019 9:01 am : link
In comment 14669734 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:


Quote:


There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.


And if there is no logical reason to retain Shurmur, there is no logical reason to keep DG, as you have eloquently argues in the past.

Frankly, I wish Mara and Tisch would sell the team. THey are good people, just not good football owners. Tisch might be ok, he knows he doesn't know football and I don't think he meddles much.
He does meddle and his meddling is equally pernicious. It's the weakness of the ownership structure as it is natural for the finance and marketing side to want to weigh in on the football operations side when the owner in charge of football operations is blundering around.
Look, at least this combo of Gettleman and Shurmur  
Jimmy Googs : 11/9/2019 9:06 am : link
put us in a good draft slot each year.

RE: There are still 7 games left before a decision will be made.  
cosmicj : 11/9/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14670047 Spider56 said:
Quote:
I think the jury is still out and PS has 7 games to make his case. No one can be happy with where the team is now so status quo or a continued slide could mean the end...
Why do the next 7 games prove more than the last season and a half? The key game was the Cardinals one and we know how that ended.
I'd feel way better about the Tischs hiring people than I would the  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/9/2019 9:11 am : link
Maras. They actually have built things and have run successful businesses. How much did Kraft understand about football when he hired BB? Not that much, but he recognized what BB was. You are hiring people, not being a football expert.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/9/2019 9:13 am : link
There was a game last year and a game this year that were both lines of demarcation for me with the coach...

Last year, it was the Eagles game in Week 12. We won two in a row coming off the bye and actually were still very much alive at that point even with a 'meh' record given the state of the division. Dallas was at the top @ 5-5, IIRC. The Eagles were 4-6. A win there would have made our season relevant again.

That was the game we started off strong, and then got away from Barkley and the coach managed it terribly and we predictably lost.

The Cardinals game was that game this year. We had a chance to make our season relevant by passing that test and winning that football game, and instead, we got fucking smoked.

This coach can't win important games. I feel confident enough in that now. It's a team that finds ways to lose. Same deal against Dallas on Monday. They just don't know how to win tight football games.
Lets see how we do tomorrow. Remember,  
Jimmy Googs : 11/9/2019 9:16 am : link
he turned the music off this week at practice...
whole staff will be back  
bc4life : 11/9/2019 9:17 am : link
think OL is a major priority in draft. really tough to acqure tackles in FA. That and upgrading receiving corps - that will happen through draft and FA.

Bettcher's job is safe - they lack the LB corps to make this defense work. Look for this to be a key area for upgrades during off season - maybe a guy like Bud Dupree. And, we will have Connelly back and see where Carter and XMan are re: their learning curve

You wanted a rebuild - this is what it looks like
the proof that Shurmur should be fired is that  
gtt350 : 11/9/2019 10:01 am : link
90% of the guys on here could probably call a better game than him
especialy in the Red Zone  
gtt350 : 11/9/2019 10:02 am : link
.
bc4life  
blueblood'11 : 11/9/2019 10:58 am : link
Rebuild? That's not totally what these clowns have been telling us the last two years. If you've been paying attention Gettleman and Mara made it clear they could still win and be competitive for a playoff spot while they flesh this thing out. I don't think this is what they had in mind regardless of the lack of talent.

This guy is a loser as a head coach period. I for one will be very disheartened if he is retained as will many other Giant fans. How do you sell this to the fans? What are we to think. What has this coach shown you that would make you think anything will be different next year. Please!!!
Shurmur returning raises a white flag for 2020  
Steve in ATL : 11/9/2019 11:02 am : link
Hopeless situation.
RE: RE: There is no logical case to be made for retaining Shurmur  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/9/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14669722 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14669706 Go Terps said:


Quote:


There isn't a shred of actual evidence that says, "The Giants will be well served by having Pat Shurmur as the head coach in 2020."

The only arguments to be made are conjecture:

- Shurmur is helping Jones's development (no proof of that exists)
- the stability of retaining Shurmur is better than the unknown of a new coach (no proof of that exists)
- the players are playing hard for Shurmur (proof of the opposite exists)

Saul Goodman couldn't put together a good argument for Shurmur being here. It's just not possible.



Regarding another head coaching job, we have to improve our process. A lot of teams identify a guy they like and put out a full court press. While Mara is like we're open for buisness, who's interested, thus leading to poor candidates hoping for a head coaching job.

Mcadoo. Mike Smith. Spagnoulo. Hue Jackson told the nfl flagship franchise to fuck off.
How this plays out  
AcesUp : 11/9/2019 11:44 am : link
2019 - Bettcher is fired and Shula takes over playcalling
2020 - Shurmur is fired and entirely new staff/system comes in
2021 - Gettleman is fired or "steps down" with Abrams taking over
2022 - Abrams is new GM and Giants roll with same HC to give them time
2023 - Coordinator gets fired and responsibilities shift
2024 - 2nd HC gets fired
2025 - Abrams makes his hire
2026- Abrams on the hot seat
RE: 17-41.  
TyreeHelmet : 11/9/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14669710 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
.


-His teams are not competitive and get blown out by better teams.
- Against equal teams he doesnít win, I.e. Arizona, Detroit etc.
- Zero creativity on offense- his ďexpertiseĒ.

Heís a proven losing coach. Make all the excuses you want about roster, talent etc. In the words of a real coach, you are what your record says you are.

Lastly, does anyone have any doubt they could find a better head coach? Donít the Giants strive for better? So exactly why should you keep him?


RE: How this plays out  
bw in dc : 11/9/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14670140 AcesUp said:
Quote:
2019 - Bettcher is fired and Shula takes over playcalling
2020 - Shurmur is fired and entirely new staff/system comes in
2021 - Gettleman is fired or "steps down" with Abrams taking over
2022 - Abrams is new GM and Giants roll with same HC to give them time
2023 - Coordinator gets fired and responsibilities shift
2024 - 2nd HC gets fired
2025 - Abrams makes his hire
2026- Abrams on the hot seat


It is so sad but true. Abrams will be the heir apparent.

Keeping the hideous tradition of having a GM with "Giants Way" ties.
RE: whole staff will be back  
jcn56 : 11/9/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14670064 bc4life said:
Quote:
think OL is a major priority in draft. really tough to acqure tackles in FA. That and upgrading receiving corps - that will happen through draft and FA.

Bettcher's job is safe - they lack the LB corps to make this defense work. Look for this to be a key area for upgrades during off season - maybe a guy like Bud Dupree. And, we will have Connelly back and see where Carter and XMan are re: their learning curve

You wanted a rebuild - this is what it looks like


No it's not - certainly not by the end of year 2 with a good amount of cap space to work with over that period.

The coaches look lost. The talent level has declined. This isn't a rebuild, it's a slow motion collapse.
RE: RE: whole staff will be back  
TyreeHelmet : 11/9/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14670184 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14670064 bc4life said:


Quote:


think OL is a major priority in draft. really tough to acqure tackles in FA. That and upgrading receiving corps - that will happen through draft and FA.

Bettcher's job is safe - they lack the LB corps to make this defense work. Look for this to be a key area for upgrades during off season - maybe a guy like Bud Dupree. And, we will have Connelly back and see where Carter and XMan are re: their learning curve

You wanted a rebuild - this is what it looks like



No it's not - certainly not by the end of year 2 with a good amount of cap space to work with over that period.

The coaches look lost. The talent level has declined. This isn't a rebuild, it's a slow motion collapse.


Spot on. I canít believe fans are okay with this.

And when did Connelly become Ray Lewis? He played well in a few games but I wouldnít exactly call the MLB position solved.
RE: RE: How this plays out  
AcesUp : 11/9/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14670171 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14670140 AcesUp said:


Quote:


2019 - Bettcher is fired and Shula takes over playcalling
2020 - Shurmur is fired and entirely new staff/system comes in
2021 - Gettleman is fired or "steps down" with Abrams taking over
2022 - Abrams is new GM and Giants roll with same HC to give them time
2023 - Coordinator gets fired and responsibilities shift
2024 - 2nd HC gets fired
2025 - Abrams makes his hire
2026- Abrams on the hot seat



It is so sad but true. Abrams will be the heir apparent.

Keeping the hideous tradition of having a GM with "Giants Way" ties.


It's that and this never ending cycle of scapegoating one offending party. First its the coordinator (Gilbride), then the head coach (Coughlin), then the GM (Reese), then the QB (Eli)...rinse and repeat. Staggered blood sacrifices to appease the fans because the guy ultimately calling the shots thinks like one.
RE: I'm not a fan of Shurmur  
santacruzom : 11/9/2019 3:19 pm : link
In comment 14669992 PaulBlakeTSU said:
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and haven't seen much that signals that he is a guy we have to keep. But over the last 10 years



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2010: 10-6: Coughin, Reese
2011: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese *****
2012: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese
2013: 7-9: Coughlin, Reese
2014: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2015: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese




But that's still 47 wins in those six Coughlin Years. Shurmur would have to have two undefeated seasons in a row to hit that benchmark.
17 and 41  
LeftHook : 11/9/2019 8:56 pm : link
that's a pretty shitty head coaching career .293 winning pct.
lord help us. This was a bad management choice........
RE: I'm not a fan of Shurmur  
jcn56 : 11/9/2019 10:52 pm : link
In comment 14669992 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
and haven't seen much that signals that he is a guy we have to keep. But over the last 10 years



Quote:


2010: 10-6: Coughin, Reese
2011: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese *****
2012: 9-7: Coughlin, Reese
2013: 7-9: Coughlin, Reese
2014: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2015: 6-10: Coughlin, Reese
2016: 11-5: McAdoo, Reese
2017: 3:13: McAdoo, Reese
2018: 5-11: Shurmur, Gettleman
2019: 2-7: Shurmur, Gettleman




And this was with having a potential HOF QB who started over 200 games in a row.

The last few years of Coughlin were dreadful (I remember 38-0 blowouts to the Ravens, blowouts to the Falcons, failing to score 30 points once). The McAdoo era was bad in the aggregate (despite a fluky 11-5 year of close wins and McAdoo wanting Mahomes), and now it's awful under Shurmur.

Ever since 2010 or so, Reese destroyed the franchise by falling over potential JPP freaks like Adrian Robinson, Damontre Moore, Ramses Barden, 8 running backs,, etc. instead of focusing on the trenches.

At a certain point, it doesn't seem to matter who is coaching this team. It is a clusterfuck and so until the franchise fixes what is poisoning the water (the Maras?), it's hard to really evaluate the coach.


This is incorrect, and so often repeated that it has become accepted as truth.

Reese didn't come anywhere close to ignoring the trenches. He threw resources at the OL the same way Gettleman has, and with similar results. He drafted Pugh in RD1, Richburg in RD2, threw good money at Schwartz at OG and drafted Flowers with a top 10 selection.

The problem wasn't the resources spent, it was the return. The OL was bad, despite high draft picks and FA resources spent on it.

The Giants are in exactly the same boat today. What your post doesn't consider is the one constant throughout that era and today - the scouting department, lead by VP of Pro Personnel Chris Mara. Save for Reese and Ross being replaced by Gettleman and Koncz, the rest of the staff have remained the same. And not surprisingly, the results are practically mirror images. Highest paid OLT at the time, good money to Omameh at OG and Remmers at OT, a top pick in 2nd round and a draft for a well paid OG in Zeitler. And the line still stinks.
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