Leonard Williams is a fine player. I still think he has potential to be a very good player in this league, but why the fuck would you trade a Day 2 pick WHEN YOU'RE NOT EVEN SNIFFING THE PLAYOFFS? Couple that with the fact that he's going to want big bucks in the offseason...
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but how the hell could ownership sign off on this? It's malpractice. Even if you don't believe in building through the draft, how could you draft ANYTHING, let alone a Day 2 pick, for an impending free agent IN A WASTED SEASON?
Clean the house. Get rid of the coaching staff and front office. Mismanagement all around.
I don't care if he balls out for the rest of the season. This team is going nowhere and they NEED draft capital, especially Day 2 picks.
Why couldn't we sign him in free agency? You think whichever team traded for him would franchise him? Williams was sure to hit the open market.
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I don't care if he balls out for the rest of the season. This team is going nowhere and they NEED draft capital, especially Day 2 picks.
Why couldn't we sign him in free agency? You think whichever team traded for him would franchise him? Williams was sure to hit the open market.
Surely you are smart enough to understand a team that trades for him likely has an inside track at signing him long term.
AND he won't count against FA signings for comp. picks now.
We are going to pay him big money of where he was drafted not his worthy play.
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I don't care if he balls out for the rest of the season. This team is going nowhere and they NEED draft capital, especially Day 2 picks.
Why couldn't we sign him in free agency? You think whichever team traded for him would franchise him? Williams was sure to hit the open market.
Are we going to get a better player in the 3rd round? I don't think so. You have a QB & RB on a rookie deal. These are the kind of guys you can go after. I think he's played very well so far. I read he had 5 QB pressures in the Cowboys game and had a good amount today.
We are going to pay him big money of where he was drafted not his worthy play.
Did you even watch the game? Leonard Williams was awesome today. He had 4 QB hits and plenty of other pressure. Would have had a sack if Darnold didn't make a reckless pass.
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What a ridiculous justification the giants have no worthy FA that are going to sign away to get a comp pick. It’s an atrocious trade.
AND he won't count against FA signings for comp. picks now.
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This isn’t the giants regime that gets the benefit of the doubt this is one of the worst trades of all time considering he is a FA and they gave up a premium pick that will be in the top 5 for the right to pay a mediocre player that we don’t even need. Against the worst offensive line in the league where was he today?
We are going to pay him big money of where he was drafted not his worthy play.
Did you even watch the game? Leonard Williams was awesome today. He had 4 QB hits and plenty of other pressure. Would have had a sack if Darnold didn't make a reckless pass.
They gave up 34 pts vs a team avg 12 pts not one played “awesome” give me a break
Is it really worth a very high 3rd and a likely 4th for that right?
It is a highly questionable trade.
A single 4th, maybe. Not the package given up.
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In comment 14672676 steve in ky said:
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I don't care if he balls out for the rest of the season. This team is going nowhere and they NEED draft capital, especially Day 2 picks.
Why couldn't we sign him in free agency? You think whichever team traded for him would franchise him? Williams was sure to hit the open market.
Surely you are smart enough to understand a team that trades for him likely has an inside track at signing him long term.
As opposed to him getting more on the open market?
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In comment 14672676 steve in ky said:
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I don't care if he balls out for the rest of the season. This team is going nowhere and they NEED draft capital, especially Day 2 picks.
Why couldn't we sign him in free agency? You think whichever team traded for him would franchise him? Williams was sure to hit the open market.
Are we going to get a better player in the 3rd round? I don't think so. You have a QB & RB on a rookie deal. These are the kind of guys you can go after. I think he's played very well so far. I read he had 5 QB pressures in the Cowboys game and had a good amount today.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. First off, who are you to say that we won't be getting a better player in the third round? NOT TO MENTION, we'd be getting a player in his rookie deal, which is what? A tenth of what Leonard Williams will be receiving in his next contract? Second, such being the case, would you argue that it's not prudent to build though the draft?
So DG says hold my beer. Not only do I want to overpay him, I want to trade for him when my team stinks for the right to overpay him first.
The trade also shows there is no cohesion between the front office and the coaching staff. If we are only playing 2 DL at a time, why even make the trade?
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This isn’t the giants regime that gets the benefit of the doubt this is one of the worst trades of all time considering he is a FA and they gave up a premium pick that will be in the top 5 for the right to pay a mediocre player that we don’t even need. Against the worst offensive line in the league where was he today?
We are going to pay him big money of where he was drafted not his worthy play.
Did you even watch the game? Leonard Williams was awesome today. He had 4 QB hits and plenty of other pressure. Would have had a sack if Darnold didn't make a reckless pass.
No one is arguing the merits of Leonard Williams. I think he's a fine player and he has room for growth. But this is the type of move you make if you're in contention OR if he's signed longterm.
What a surprise Anakim starting a numbskull thread.
What a surprise Anakim starting a numbskull thread.
WHO. THE. FUCK. CARES. ABOUT. WHAT. HE. DOES. THIS. YEAR?
Numbskull thread? Numbskull thread would be anyone defending this move. It makes NO SENSE, ABSOLUTELY ZERO FUCKING SENSE, to trade for an impending free agent when you're not in playoff contention.
That would make a ton of sense because at least Quinnen Williams is signed beyond this wasted season.
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This isn’t the giants regime that gets the benefit of the doubt this is one of the worst trades of all time considering he is a FA and they gave up a premium pick that will be in the top 5 for the right to pay a mediocre player that we don’t even need. Against the worst offensive line in the league where was he today?
We are going to pay him big money of where he was drafted not his worthy play.
Did you even watch the game? Leonard Williams was awesome today. He had 4 QB hits and plenty of other pressure. Would have had a sack if Darnold didn't make a reckless pass.
I initially thought that they had backchannelled a contract and he'd be signed shortly after the trade, with this being a vote of confidence for the coaching staff. However, I don't think DG looks at all the angles when making his moves. It's all about the player and he gets tunnel vision. He's a scout.
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In comment 14672676 steve in ky said:
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I don't care if he balls out for the rest of the season. This team is going nowhere and they NEED draft capital, especially Day 2 picks.
Why couldn't we sign him in free agency? You think whichever team traded for him would franchise him? Williams was sure to hit the open market.
Surely you are smart enough to understand a team that trades for him likely has an inside track at signing him long term.
There's a reason this isn't common practice. Off the top of my head, I just don't recall this happening. Have the Giants found a loophole in acquiring talent or it it likely that other teams don't use draft capital for this for a reason. I'm going with Occam's razor here.
There have been so many fireable offenses from Gettleman at this point that you have to think he won't be fired.
I wouldn't. I am not sure he will. I don't think this was a good move. If so, you would see better franchises doing this more regularly.
We gave up a 3rd and a 5th for no reason.
Why? Made no sense then, now or ever. Enough with this “how about we wait” bullshit. This franchise is a fucking DISASTER.
Is it really worth a very high 3rd and a likely 4th for that right?
It is a highly questionable trade.
A single 4th, maybe. Not the package given up.
Not even the 4th. What it basically gives them above any other participant in the FA market is the ability to tag him.
Leonard Williams' play to date hasn't been worth a tag of any sort.
You could say that the audition might be worth the 4th - but considering the fact that the team has been lousy with 3rd and 4th round picks forever, a big part of why they currently stink, giving up those two picks for a guy who likely could have been acquired with cash only is ridiculous.
I wouldn't. I am not sure he will. I don't think this was a good move. If so, you would see better franchises doing this more regularly.
We gave up a 3rd and a 5th for no reason.
This is going to become a looming problem in the future if we keep Shurmur and Dave, many do not want to come to the stinch of a losing culture. The NFL should have a website like Glassdoor that allows players to describe their environment as places to work....would be interesting and cut through the BS and facts.
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AND he won't count against FA signings for comp. picks now.
So you cough up draft picks to avoid...not gettimg a draft pick?
Sounds brilliant.
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Why? Made no sense then, now or ever. Enough with this “how about we wait” bullshit. This franchise is a fucking DISASTER.
Why should their losing effect ones ability to wait until all information is in prior to forming a final opinion about whether or not a trade was worth it?
I get the frustration but it should negate common sense.
BTW, Gettleman is an idiot. I wish DG nothing but the best of health and to retire to a nice senior community somewhere.
The term "fireable offense" loses more meaning every time Go Terps uses it.
At this point, it's basically become a compliment, because it is said weekly as if being over the top is somehow supposed to strengthen a point.
Very few GM's or coaches have singular events that are "fireable offenses", especially when seen through the lens of immediate judgment.
The term "fireable offense" loses more meaning every time Go Terps uses it.
At this point, it's basically become a compliment, because it is said weekly as if being over the top is somehow supposed to strengthen a point.
Very few GM's or coaches have singular events that are "fireable offenses", especially when seen through the lens of immediate judgment.
I don't think you're in any position to talk about any other posters, as wrong as you've been on Gettleman. Might want to just stick to starting threads whining about the refs.
That's part of the fucking problem.
My goal isn't to be right. I'm a fan of the team and want them to succeed. Is throwing invective at everyone in the organization going to change that?
The real truth is that nobody here is right. And people bitching for the past two years that we didn't draft a QB don't earn special points. People saying that Gettleman was a sham hire and here to be a yes man don't get a special reward.
You want a scorecard?? Fuck - you seemingly want to declare winners after the first drive of the game. Using that logic, the Giants had a great first two weeks of the season!
Based on your checklist of "fireable offenses", John Lynch would've been fired last season. That's why immediacy is the folly of morons.
That's part of the fucking problem.
My goal isn't to be right. I'm a fan of the team and want them to succeed. Is throwing invective at everyone in the organization going to change that?
The real truth is that nobody here is right. And people bitching for the past two years that we didn't draft a QB don't earn special points. People saying that Gettleman was a sham hire and here to be a yes man don't get a special reward.
You want a scorecard?? Fuck - you seemingly want to declare winners after the first drive of the game. Using that logic, the Giants had a great first two weeks of the season!
Based on your checklist of "fireable offenses", John Lynch would've been fired last season. That's why immediacy is the folly of morons.
Do you believe Shurmur & Gettleman will be here 3 years from now? We’re they hired with the intention that this was a 5 year plan with no threat of being fired?
I don't think Gettleman should.
I'm not going to re-gurgitate it again, but he inherited a team that had a historic stretch of bad drafts. Not poor ones - drafts that have been considered some of the least successful in NFL history. And yet you still have people saying in year 2 it is all on Gettleman now.
The lack of perspective here is likely out of frustration, but The GM appears to have gotten us a QB and RB to build around. I think he'll have another draft and offseason to do it.
Seeing you still aren't adding anything useful, I assume your jacket with "Security" taped on the back never went to the cleaners....
I don't think Gettleman should.
I'm not going to re-gurgitate it again, but he inherited a team that had a historic stretch of bad drafts. Not poor ones - drafts that have been considered some of the least successful in NFL history. And yet you still have people saying in year 2 it is all on Gettleman now.
The lack of perspective here is likely out of frustration, but The GM appears to have gotten us a QB and RB to build around. I think he'll have another draft and offseason to do it.
The concern is the structure. GM & HC should not be 2 separate entities, prospective HC’s will want say in personnel decisions.
Enough fucking excuses for any of these people already.
Is this going to be the new narrative that has no evidence behind it??
Ron Rivera had no problem working with Gettleman.
Go Terps has this right.
Did Gettleman hire Rivera?
But if he's had 3 offseasons and 2 head coaches, the Giants need to be deeply in the playoff picture.
By that time he will have 5 1st round picks (3 top 10), 2 2nd round picks, and 4 3rd picks.
He'll have a 2nd year top 10 pick QB, an All Pro RB, and have had 3 consecutive offseasons with plenty of cap space to make big moves.
Several threads now where you've not made a single comment about the topic.
I think you like the current act:
Is that why Patricia turned down the job too?
Anyone else turned the job down??
Maybe you can give a reason why McDaniels accepted then reneged on the Colts job? The GM too??
But if he's had 3 offseasons and 2 head coaches, the Giants need to be deeply in the playoff picture.
By that time he will have 5 1st round picks (3 top 10), 2 2nd round picks, and 4 3rd picks.
He'll have a 2nd year top 10 pick QB, an All Pro RB, and have had 3 consecutive offseasons with plenty of cap space to make big moves.
So, we fire Shurmur & give Gettleman one more year? What happens if we go 5-11 next year? If we are only going to fire Shurmur, might as well just keep both for 2020. I don’t want to see a situation where we have HC/GM on different schedules.
That particular move is indefensible, IMO - Williams has never lived up to his draft position and the Giants are positioning themselves to pay him well after giving up picks for the rights to do so.
Blowing through those picks was the knock on Reese and why he's not here - and Gettleman hasn't done any better. When he's not giving them away he's drafting guys that haven't done much.
But if he's had 3 offseasons and 2 head coaches, the Giants need to be deeply in the playoff picture.
Think about how far this team needs to rise up to get "deeply in the playoff picture" in that time frame.
That would be a monumental turnaround.
Not even the Defenders could imagine that...even Mr X-ray.
I think his drafts have been pretty good.
The only Jets fan I know that I'd actually listen to said that Williams disappears for long stretches, and that he expected the same. He also predicted that the Jets wouldn't miss him.
They do have other players on the line, but a player worthy of that compensation should leave a noticeable hole in his absence.
And he's going to get $15M+ per year.
Here's the real problem - we have a decent supply of DLs. Why waste more money on another? It was like a "BPA for trades" move...
There are/were more pressing needs - like the LBs and secondary.
Bottom line is we should have been sellers at the trade deadline. Not buyers.
Just a baffling.
Does it matter?
Does it matter?
Yes. We haven't had an issue with the DL so far. It's been one of the few bright spots on the D.
So why waste money on that position?
Here's an idea - use the money to solve more pressing needs like LB and OL.
DG keeps playing with future collateral while losing at a horrific rate today...
Yes. We haven't had an issue with the DL so far. It's been one of the few bright spots on the D.
So why waste money on that position?
Here's an idea - use the money to solve more pressing needs like LB and OL.
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If it hasn't been an issue they wouldn't have made the move.They had Ximenes,an OLB, playing over the guard a few weeks ago.
If it hasn't been an issue they wouldn't have made the move.They had Ximenes,an OLB, playing over the guard a few weeks ago.
That's assuming competent leadership in the FO - considering the other FA moves they've made, you'd be much better off assuming they're totally incompetent.
Gettleman has picked a lot of defensive players in the top 100 and only Lawrence is doing well.
Absolutely. Just in a lost season I'd rather give him every chance before moving on.
unless they're showing no aptitude for the job.
Shurmur is definitely showing that a good case can be made to move on.
Gettleman, IMO, is not looking all that promising in his first couple of years, but has not been bad enough to dump. I have no confidence in him, but he should get another year or two to see if things show any sign of improvement.