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Remind me why we traded a Day 2 pick for an impending FA

Anakim : 11/10/2019 4:29 pm
Leonard Williams is a fine player. I still think he has potential to be a very good player in this league, but why the fuck would you trade a Day 2 pick WHEN YOU'RE NOT EVEN SNIFFING THE PLAYOFFS? Couple that with the fact that he's going to want big bucks in the offseason...

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but how the hell could ownership sign off on this? It's malpractice. Even if you don't believe in building through the draft, how could you draft ANYTHING, let alone a Day 2 pick, for an impending free agent IN A WASTED SEASON?



Clean the house. Get rid of the coaching staff and front office. Mismanagement all around.
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I believe..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 9:10 pm : link
Shurmur will be fired.

I don't think Gettleman should.

I'm not going to re-gurgitate it again, but he inherited a team that had a historic stretch of bad drafts. Not poor ones - drafts that have been considered some of the least successful in NFL history. And yet you still have people saying in year 2 it is all on Gettleman now.

The lack of perspective here is likely out of frustration, but The GM appears to have gotten us a QB and RB to build around. I think he'll have another draft and offseason to do it.
RE: Your Defender of the Faith jacket  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14673909 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
must be back from the cleaners...


Seeing you still aren't adding anything useful, I assume your jacket with "Security" taped on the back never went to the cleaners....
RE: I believe..  
Sean : 11/10/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14673948 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Shurmur will be fired.

I don't think Gettleman should.

I'm not going to re-gurgitate it again, but he inherited a team that had a historic stretch of bad drafts. Not poor ones - drafts that have been considered some of the least successful in NFL history. And yet you still have people saying in year 2 it is all on Gettleman now.

The lack of perspective here is likely out of frustration, but The GM appears to have gotten us a QB and RB to build around. I think he'll have another draft and offseason to do it.


The concern is the structure. GM & HC should not be 2 separate entities, prospective HCís will want say in personnel decisions.
They can't just fire Shurmur  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 9:13 pm : link
No good coach is going to want to work with Gettleman.
And by the way,  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 9:14 pm : link
Gettleman helped hire Shurmur. How is that not something held against him?

Enough fucking excuses for any of these people already.
RE: They can't just fire Shurmur  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14673964 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No good coach is going to want to work with Gettleman.


Is this going to be the new narrative that has no evidence behind it??

Ron Rivera had no problem working with Gettleman.
How posters here defend Gettleman  
Marty866b : 11/10/2019 9:16 pm : link
Is beyond ridiculous. This is HIS team. This team has actually gotten worse under this GM which is incredibly difficult to do.
Go Terps has this right.
What narrative would you like to discuss FMiC  
Jimmy Googs : 11/10/2019 9:17 pm : link
what will make you happy on this new BBI?
New narrative?  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 9:18 pm : link
McDaniels didn't take the job because of Gettleman.

Did Gettleman hire Rivera?
...  
christian : 11/10/2019 9:19 pm : link
Gettleman deserves 3 offseasons.

But if he's had 3 offseasons and 2 head coaches, the Giants need to be deeply in the playoff picture.

By that time he will have 5 1st round picks (3 top 10), 2 2nd round picks, and 4 3rd picks.

He'll have a 2nd year top 10 pick QB, an All Pro RB, and have had 3 consecutive offseasons with plenty of cap space to make big moves.
Googs..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 9:20 pm : link
discuss anything that adds to the discussion. Anything.

Several threads now where you've not made a single comment about the topic.

I think you like the current act:
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 9:23 pm : link
McDaniels didn't take the job because of Gettleman. He was offered the job??

Is that why Patricia turned down the job too?

Anyone else turned the job down??

Maybe you can give a reason why McDaniels accepted then reneged on the Colts job? The GM too??
RE: ...  
Sean : 11/10/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14673987 christian said:
Quote:
Gettleman deserves 3 offseasons.

But if he's had 3 offseasons and 2 head coaches, the Giants need to be deeply in the playoff picture.

By that time he will have 5 1st round picks (3 top 10), 2 2nd round picks, and 4 3rd picks.

He'll have a 2nd year top 10 pick QB, an All Pro RB, and have had 3 consecutive offseasons with plenty of cap space to make big moves.


So, we fire Shurmur & give Gettleman one more year? What happens if we go 5-11 next year? If we are only going to fire Shurmur, might as well just keep both for 2020. I donít want to see a situation where we have HC/GM on different schedules.
This thread has gone off topic, but it was about trading  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 9:24 pm : link
a 3rd and a 4th for the ability to lock up Leonard Williams to a good sized contract.

That particular move is indefensible, IMO - Williams has never lived up to his draft position and the Giants are positioning themselves to pay him well after giving up picks for the rights to do so.

Blowing through those picks was the knock on Reese and why he's not here - and Gettleman hasn't done any better. When he's not giving them away he's drafting guys that haven't done much.
Anything back on those x-rays yet?  
Jimmy Googs : 11/10/2019 9:24 pm : link
.
Listened to the joint  
Ned In Atlanta : 11/10/2019 9:26 pm : link
Jets/Giants Athletic podcast. Connor Hughes (Jets beat writer) predicted Williams would have a good game against the Jets, sign a big deal and then underwhelm. Not a ringing endorsement from someone very familiar with the player. Also, agree 100% with OP. Guys going to be a UFal
RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 11/10/2019 9:33 pm : link
In comment 14673987 christian said:
Quote:
Gettleman deserves 3 offseasons.

But if he's had 3 offseasons and 2 head coaches, the Giants need to be deeply in the playoff picture.



Think about how far this team needs to rise up to get "deeply in the playoff picture" in that time frame.

That would be a monumental turnaround.

Not even the Defenders could imagine that...even Mr X-ray.
RE: This thread has gone off topic, but it was about trading  
steve in ky : 11/10/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14674004 jcn56 said:
Quote:
When he's not giving them away he's drafting guys that haven't done much.


I think his drafts have been pretty good.
RE: Listened to the joint  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14674013 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Jets/Giants Athletic podcast. Connor Hughes (Jets beat writer) predicted Williams would have a good game against the Jets, sign a big deal and then underwhelm. Not a ringing endorsement from someone very familiar with the player. Also, agree 100% with OP. Guys going to be a UFal


The only Jets fan I know that I'd actually listen to said that Williams disappears for long stretches, and that he expected the same. He also predicted that the Jets wouldn't miss him.

They do have other players on the line, but a player worthy of that compensation should leave a noticeable hole in his absence.
RE: Listened to the joint  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14674013 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Jets/Giants Athletic podcast. Connor Hughes (Jets beat writer) predicted Williams would have a good game against the Jets, sign a big deal and then underwhelm. Not a ringing endorsement from someone very familiar with the player. Also, agree 100% with OP. Guys going to be a UFal


And he's going to get $15M+ per year.

Here's the real problem - we have a decent supply of DLs. Why waste more money on another? It was like a "BPA for trades" move...

There are/were more pressing needs - like the LBs and secondary.

Bottom line is we should have been sellers at the trade deadline. Not buyers.

Just a baffling.
If the team signs Williams  
ghost718 : 11/10/2019 9:45 pm : link
and he continues this type of play

Does it matter?
RE: If the team signs Williams  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14674068 ghost718 said:
Quote:
and he continues this type of play

Does it matter?


Yes. We haven't had an issue with the DL so far. It's been one of the few bright spots on the D.

So why waste money on that position?

Here's an idea - use the money to solve more pressing needs like LB and OL.

I definitely thought Williams played better this week  
Jimmy Googs : 11/10/2019 9:49 pm : link
but I just still don't see letting the draft pick investment go out the door.

DG keeps playing with future collateral while losing at a horrific rate today...
RE: RE: If the team signs Williams  
ghost718 : 11/10/2019 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14674076 bw in dc said:
Yes. We haven't had an issue with the DL so far. It's been one of the few bright spots on the D.

So why waste money on that position?

Here's an idea - use the money to solve more pressing needs like LB and OL.
[/quote]

If it hasn't been an issue they wouldn't have made the move.They had Ximenes,an OLB, playing over the guard a few weeks ago.
RE: RE: RE: If the team signs Williams  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 10:06 pm : link
In comment 14674091 ghost718 said:
Quote:

If it hasn't been an issue they wouldn't have made the move.They had Ximenes,an OLB, playing over the guard a few weeks ago.


That's assuming competent leadership in the FO - considering the other FA moves they've made, you'd be much better off assuming they're totally incompetent.
...  
christian : 11/10/2019 10:18 pm : link
The Giants picked Hill and McIntosh last year. I'd much have preferred they were given more rope and hopefully turn the corner.

Gettleman has picked a lot of defensive players in the top 100 and only Lawrence is doing well.
Hill and McIntosh  
Marty866b : 11/10/2019 10:21 pm : link
Do nothing. Hill is a major disappointment.
RE: Hill and McIntosh  
christian : 11/10/2019 10:28 pm : link
In comment 14674157 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Do nothing. Hill is a major disappointment.

Absolutely. Just in a lost season I'd rather give him every chance before moving on.
A GM, or a HC  
fkap : 11/10/2019 10:51 pm : link
should get more than 2 years after inheriting a crappy team...
unless they're showing no aptitude for the job.

Shurmur is definitely showing that a good case can be made to move on.

Gettleman, IMO, is not looking all that promising in his first couple of years, but has not been bad enough to dump. I have no confidence in him, but he should get another year or two to see if things show any sign of improvement.
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