Is not coordinating anything......I think the players are unsure of their responsibilities and this late in the season there is no excuse for this, they actually seem to be getting worse as the year goes on.
his guys or is the typical patchwork quilt of unknowns and nobodies that make it impossible to get on the same page. Couple that with what could dumbasses that cannot communicate among themselves with what I have heard to be a complicated scheme and you have a disaster.
Ogletree and Bethea are done. The vaunted D-Line that is full of 1st and 2nd round draft picks act like they would break out in a rash if they controlled the line of scrimmage. And the young defensive backs cover as if they will catch the flu if they get too close to the opposition receivers. I'm nauseous once again after watching that farce.
Hey John, is the team making progress?
I never thought I'd see a worse Giants defense than Â
the one they fielded in 2015, but this 2019 unit flat out blows. Can't cover, can't tackle, can't force a takeaway, they barely slow the opposition down. It comes down to hoping the other team makes a mistake and beats themselves.
I am so glad next week is a bye, I need the break as badly as they do.
all of the items listed below are factors, but how much of the woes of the defense this season are due to:
1) Inexperience among the multiple rookies on the DL and secondary?
2) Lack of talent in the linebacking corps?
3) Poor defensive design, playcalling and lack of adjustments?
Issue 1) somewhat gets solved "organically" as rookies gain more experience (i.e. doesn't need more talent or a coaching change)
Issue 2) gets solved with new players by free agency and / or new draft picks
Issue 3) only gets solved with a DC or HC & DC change
I think issue 3) is the most serious issue and will be with us all year unless there is a mid-season firing(s). Issue 2) is with us all year. Issue 1) may get better as the season progresses (e.g. Lawrence, Ximenes, Baker, Ballentine, Beal and Love get more playing time and experience).
Don't worry though - they gave up a 3rd and a 4th Â
need talent on both sides. The DL seems to be ahead of the OL though.
Not saying much.
We need a couple more drafts where we pick in the top 5.
I also think that some guys (who have brilliant football minds) .... are just not born leaders and make batter co-ordinators.
Not saying Parcells didn't know his Football but, his genius (imo) was motivation. He could get his guys to run through a wall for him. Belechick is the same way. He intimidates with his silence. The Patriots are not the most talented team ever. How can they be when they draft 31 or 32 every year? But, they work hard to be perfect - because they are afraid of little Bill.
Not sure Shurmur has that quality. I don't think they hate Shurmur but, they sure do not seem afraid of him.
I've seen, but this is close. Only reason we're not giving up as many points is I feel like our offense is actually playing better. That team would lose by like 30 on a weekly basis is seemed.
And especially with mediocre or smaller linebackers. I mean, they swarmed ok at times...I just think it's too easy to run on once you get a guard on an ogletree, for example. That should not happen .
I don't know how you don't put the bigs out there, when it's possibly our only decent unit, the actual D tackles.
But there's a reason we wanted ILBs and free safeties early and often last years draft. It's glaring.
The weak corner play from rookies - I can live with, presuming there's some simplification in assignments and better preparation going forward.
But how they ignore free safety for 30 years is just a mystery.
It seems like high risk high reward systems. Which reeks of a lack of humility.
One thing about the shanny stuff I've been ranting about since before macdoo. It's humble enough to admit that you want to raise the floor by leveraging system to enhance less that stellar players.
High floor low ceiling.
Whereas we rip off amazing plays once in a while going back to gilbrude but when it all doesn't line up perfectly it doesn't function.
I'd prefer high floor low ceiling system centric offense (shanny) or running QB version of that (Ravens) or heavy rpo system with actual runs..even if it's gimmicky and only lasts a few years.
Because while that's going you can draft the fuck outta your defense.
Contrast that with a system that's nearly i.posdible to do on OL (our Packers lite system since forever) and all the wasted assets that entails including draft.
Has talent to build around. They shouldn’t look this bad on a weekly basis.
Bettcher had a good D in Arizona. It's possible they overachieved, but it's a lot more likely the talent he's dealing with here just isn't very good.
I like the DL and the secondary flashes. The DL is getting good push vs the run and pass. The LBs suck and the secondary can’t cover slot receivers but the defense overall shouldn’t be this bad. This is ‘15 level bad and that defense was terrible everywhere.
This coaching staff is getting the least out of its players.
The Adams play shouldn't count against the D. They really need to carve those types of plays out of defensive stats. It's just a truer way to assess points actually allowed...
I'd be going center and or right tackle and or one more decent system wr via free agency.
2. You need a totally different offensive method to enhance OL outcomes. No more Packers lite madness expecting different outcomes.
3. Draft:
TWO.. TWO...very speedy FREE safeties.
The rare Blue goose ILB (actually pass defends and also doesn't get pushed around up front ..rare and fast, possibly move Carter to.
ilb as well.if you get an edge player' in the draft)
An edge. (Resign golden and williams)
A big assed 280lb blocking tight end suitable for heavy zone run blocking assignments
Problem is that whereas JJ could play slit he's a little small vs the run.
And the other slot guy is no good vs pass and yet can tackle rbs. So the idea with drafting 2 or 3 great free safeties is one is a slot pd/run D hybrid type.
Your deep free safety. Your slit free safety corner hybrid and your lb/s hybrid but not the jag version we have now . The blue goose one size and speed combo
Ballentine looks more like an outside man cover type , not a twitchy hops inside pd player.
but not once in any game I have seen from the Giants this year, nor many in recent years, has the defense held and dominated consistently when the game was on the line. Today, playing a team that was as bad as the Jets we should have held them to much less than 27 points (measured against their offense). The fact that we didn't points squarely at defensive scheme, personnel (talent and execution) and play calling. Betcher needs to go and likely Shurmur. If the ownership doesn't make these changes, we are doomed to sub 500 foot ball for many more years unfortunately.
the back 7. At some point, is a coach going to tell Baker to turn around and look for the ball? He had good coverage, but never turned for the ball. It was a ticky tack penalty, but if turned his head, no flag. Both Bethea and Peppers are liabilities in coverage and Bethea has missed a ton of tackles.
They need 2 Safeties, better LBs, and an entirely new defensive coaching staff.
On the other side of the ball, 3 OL. It is ridiculous how they have gotten worse, not better, as the season has gone on.
out, the passing game was almost competent until the end. The run game was a disaster and there felt like nothing creative was being done to try and right that ship.
But the D has just been pathetic, game in and game out. We're constantly behind. When we finally get a lead, we give it back asap. We don't cover, we don't stop the run consistently, and we are inconsistent with the pass rush.
I honestly can't remember a D this bad for this long.
out, the passing game was almost competent until the end. The run game was a disaster and there felt like nothing creative was being done to try and right that ship.
But the D has just been pathetic, game in and game out. We're constantly behind. When we finally get a lead, we give it back asap. We don't cover, we don't stop the run consistently, and we are inconsistent with the pass rush.
I honestly can't remember a D this bad for this long.
Offense, defense and special teams as well. Usually it's a coaching issue when things get this ugly across the board and that's the case this time around as well.
Has talent to build around. They shouldn’t look this bad on a weekly basis.
Bettcher had a good D in Arizona. It's possible they overachieved, but it's a lot more likely the talent he's dealing with here just isn't very good.
I like the DL and the secondary flashes. The DL is getting good push vs the run and pass. The LBs suck and the secondary can’t cover slot receivers but the defense overall shouldn’t be this bad. This is ‘15 level bad and that defense was terrible everywhere.
This coaching staff is getting the least out of its players.
The DL is getting good push? No, it's not - and the opponent's passer rating is 104, good for 27th overall. Yards per rush? Mediocre, coming in at 15th overall.
The LBs are terrible - but they're made to look worse because backs are making it to the second level cleanly. The lack of a pass rush is making a bad secondary look worse.
Overall - the defensive talent on the team is horrendous. Bettcher is probably no better than average as a DC, but hand him crap for talent and you're going to get crap back.
Oh, and the Run Blocking is atrocious!!
Oh, and the Run Blocking is atrocious!!
Our running backs rushed for 3 yards. THREE.
There is no silver lining. This organization is dysfunctional and incapable of operating in the modern day NFL.
Quote:
Bettcher can’t possibly survive can he?
Oh, and the Run Blocking is atrocious!!
Our running backs rushed for 3 yards. THREE.
Please don’t say it out loud! It hurts too much.
So is it scheme or OL talent??? How many runs out of shotgun can you run for negative yards before you cut it out and put the QB under center.
McGaughey is the only one with any shred of positivity this season, and his units have turned down in recent weeks.
Hey John, is the team making progress?
I am so glad next week is a bye, I need the break as badly as they do.
There is no silver lining. This organization is dysfunctional and incapable of operating in the modern day NFL.
100%. But hopefully they did one thing right.
Love how we give the games away trailing 14-0 every single week.
1) Inexperience among the multiple rookies on the DL and secondary?
2) Lack of talent in the linebacking corps?
3) Poor defensive design, playcalling and lack of adjustments?
Issue 1) somewhat gets solved "organically" as rookies gain more experience (i.e. doesn't need more talent or a coaching change)
Issue 2) gets solved with new players by free agency and / or new draft picks
Issue 3) only gets solved with a DC or HC & DC change
I think issue 3) is the most serious issue and will be with us all year unless there is a mid-season firing(s). Issue 2) is with us all year. Issue 1) may get better as the season progresses (e.g. Lawrence, Ximenes, Baker, Ballentine, Beal and Love get more playing time and experience).
need talent on both sides. The DL seems to be ahead of the OL though.
Not saying much.
We need a couple more drafts where we pick in the top 5.
I also think that some guys (who have brilliant football minds) .... are just not born leaders and make batter co-ordinators.
Not saying Parcells didn't know his Football but, his genius (imo) was motivation. He could get his guys to run through a wall for him. Belechick is the same way. He intimidates with his silence. The Patriots are not the most talented team ever. How can they be when they draft 31 or 32 every year? But, they work hard to be perfect - because they are afraid of little Bill.
Not sure Shurmur has that quality. I don't think they hate Shurmur but, they sure do not seem afraid of him.
In comment 14673300 GiantTuff1 said:
Love how we give the games away trailing 14-0 every single week.
Leveled off
Peppers plays hard but takes himself out of plays
Baker is just a bad player. Dumb and gives little effort too often
Big Leonard has flashed but not consistent. Ditto for Carter.
BJ fell off a cliff
Thank God we traded for Ogeltree (sarcasm). And I'm psyched Solder has been such a big help (s...).
Rush the passer. Nope
Bettcher had a good D in Arizona. It's possible they overachieved, but it's a lot more likely the talent he's dealing with here just isn't very good.
You get what you pay for.
I don't know how you don't put the bigs out there, when it's possibly our only decent unit, the actual D tackles.
But there's a reason we wanted ILBs and free safeties early and often last years draft. It's glaring.
The weak corner play from rookies - I can live with, presuming there's some simplification in assignments and better preparation going forward.
But how they ignore free safety for 30 years is just a mystery.
One thing about the shanny stuff I've been ranting about since before macdoo. It's humble enough to admit that you want to raise the floor by leveraging system to enhance less that stellar players.
High floor low ceiling.
Whereas we rip off amazing plays once in a while going back to gilbrude but when it all doesn't line up perfectly it doesn't function.
Low floor high ceiling .
Because while that's going you can draft the fuck outta your defense.
Contrast that with a system that's nearly i.posdible to do on OL (our Packers lite system since forever) and all the wasted assets that entails including draft.
Yes, I am clearly blaming just the defense. (sarcasm off)
Lawrence
Tomlinson
Peppers
Baker
Ballentine
Williams and Golden are targets to retain.
I believe the Giants upgrades of 3 new linebackers, 1 corner, and free safety from the regular starters this year.
Maybe some of those guys are on the roster, but scarily maybe not.
Two years into a rebuild this is concerning.
Quote:
Has talent to build around. They shouldn’t look this bad on a weekly basis.
Bettcher had a good D in Arizona. It's possible they overachieved, but it's a lot more likely the talent he's dealing with here just isn't very good.
I like the DL and the secondary flashes. The DL is getting good push vs the run and pass. The LBs suck and the secondary can’t cover slot receivers but the defense overall shouldn’t be this bad. This is ‘15 level bad and that defense was terrible everywhere.
This coaching staff is getting the least out of its players.
The Adams play shouldn't count against the D. They really need to carve those types of plays out of defensive stats. It's just a truer way to assess points actually allowed...
I'd be going center and or right tackle and or one more decent system wr via free agency.
2. You need a totally different offensive method to enhance OL outcomes. No more Packers lite madness expecting different outcomes.
3. Draft:
TWO.. TWO...very speedy FREE safeties.
The rare Blue goose ILB (actually pass defends and also doesn't get pushed around up front ..rare and fast, possibly move Carter to.
ilb as well.if you get an edge player' in the draft)
An edge. (Resign golden and williams)
A big assed 280lb blocking tight end suitable for heavy zone run blocking assignments
And the other slot guy is no good vs pass and yet can tackle rbs. So the idea with drafting 2 or 3 great free safeties is one is a slot pd/run D hybrid type.
Your deep free safety. Your slit free safety corner hybrid and your lb/s hybrid but not the jag version we have now . The blue goose one size and speed combo
Ballentine looks more like an outside man cover type , not a twitchy hops inside pd player.
You can’t keep this guy as the DC
They need 2 Safeties, better LBs, and an entirely new defensive coaching staff.
On the other side of the ball, 3 OL. It is ridiculous how they have gotten worse, not better, as the season has gone on.
But the D has just been pathetic, game in and game out. We're constantly behind. When we finally get a lead, we give it back asap. We don't cover, we don't stop the run consistently, and we are inconsistent with the pass rush.
I honestly can't remember a D this bad for this long.
But the D has just been pathetic, game in and game out. We're constantly behind. When we finally get a lead, we give it back asap. We don't cover, we don't stop the run consistently, and we are inconsistent with the pass rush.
I honestly can't remember a D this bad for this long.
Quote:
In comment 14673348 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Has talent to build around. They shouldn’t look this bad on a weekly basis.
Bettcher had a good D in Arizona. It's possible they overachieved, but it's a lot more likely the talent he's dealing with here just isn't very good.
I like the DL and the secondary flashes. The DL is getting good push vs the run and pass. The LBs suck and the secondary can’t cover slot receivers but the defense overall shouldn’t be this bad. This is ‘15 level bad and that defense was terrible everywhere.
This coaching staff is getting the least out of its players.
The DL is getting good push? No, it's not - and the opponent's passer rating is 104, good for 27th overall. Yards per rush? Mediocre, coming in at 15th overall.
The LBs are terrible - but they're made to look worse because backs are making it to the second level cleanly. The lack of a pass rush is making a bad secondary look worse.
Overall - the defensive talent on the team is horrendous. Bettcher is probably no better than average as a DC, but hand him crap for talent and you're going to get crap back.