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Today you saw examples 1A & 1B why you don't invest in RB's

Josh in the City : 11/10/2019 6:54 pm
Today's performances by Saquon and Leveon are all you needed to see to understand why you don't invest in RB's in today's NFL. Whether you want to blame it on injury, situation, offensive line, it simply doesn't matter. RB's are successful when the situation around them is ideal and they aren't when it becomes their responsibility to lift everyone else. It's are a complementary position, not a prime one.

On top of that, the shelf life of RB's and their ability to stay on the field are both below optimal. For better or worse, workhorse backs take a beating and as seasons progress the bumps and bruises starts to affect them.

As much as we all love Barkley as a player, taking him at #2 last year was a collasal mistake. It would have been a good pick if everything else was in place and we needed a playmaker to get us over the top. Unfortunately, nothing else was in place and by the time everything gets in place, he'll be done with his rookie contract and it will be foolish to pay him what he's going to want. That pick set this franchise back and this is not soething that's being said in hindsight. Many people here said it at the time.

It's time this team invests in the offensive line and defense FIRST before addressing positions that don't mean anything in today's league. This franchise has been a failure for far too long and it's inexcusable.
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Yeah,  
section125 : 11/10/2019 6:55 pm : link
ok..

Next
I would like to see him with a serviceable line  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 11/10/2019 6:56 pm : link
I don't think Saquon getting crushed repeatedly 3 yards behind the LOS each play is a fair rep of what he is or what he can do.
RE: I would like to see him with a serviceable line  
Josh in the City : 11/10/2019 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14673435 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
I don't think Saquon getting crushed repeatedly 3 yards behind the LOS each play is a fair rep of what he is or what he can do.


I would have liked to see a serviceable line BEFORE investing the #2 overall pick in a meaningless position. That’s the point.
and who are you taking instead?  
islander1 : 11/10/2019 6:57 pm : link
the rest of the QB's aren't better than Jones.

An offensive guard out of Notre Dame? Really?
I think the point is you develop  
giants_10_88 : 11/10/2019 6:57 pm : link
the OL first and then take a talented RB (late in the first) such as Nick Chubb or Sony Michel.
I love Barkley  
joeinpa : 11/10/2019 6:57 pm : link
But his talents are being waisted this season
Do not think you can say that until you get a capable coach and GM in  
PetesHereNow : 11/10/2019 6:58 pm : link
here. Look at how Carolina uses CMac. Different runs, various pass routes, unpredictability. I literally guess the Giants’ plays a majority of the time from my recliner. If I can do that, I promise the opposing coaches can, too.
RE: I would like to see him with a serviceable line  
BillT : 11/10/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14673435 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
I don't think Saquon getting crushed repeatedly 3 yards behind the LOS each play is a fair rep of what he is or what he can do.

I think the furthest Saquon got before getting hit was 1 yard past the LOS and that happened once.
RE: I would like to see him with a serviceable line  
AcidTest : 11/10/2019 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14673435 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
I don't think Saquon getting crushed repeatedly 3 yards behind the LOS each play is a fair rep of what he is or what he can do.


Agreed.
RE: Do not think you can say that until you get a capable coach and GM in  
aGiantGuy : 11/10/2019 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14673445 PetesHereNow said:
Quote:
here. Look at how Carolina uses CMac. Different runs, various pass routes, unpredictability. I literally guess the Giants’ plays a majority of the time from my recliner. If I can do that, I promise the opposing coaches can, too.
You call the Gm incapable and then use CMac as your positive example. If you don’t see the irony in that my man...
Good post.  
eugibs : 11/10/2019 7:02 pm : link
This is 100% correct (except I don’t love him as a player). The pick was a mistake, some people said it at the time, more people acknowledge it now, and over time, it will become a given and you will not be able to find anyone who will admit to having agreed with the pick. It’s not about Darnold or any other player. It’s about what a running back offers a team in the modern NFL, which is close to nothing. It was a wasted pick.
Unfortunately OP is right  
AnnapolisMike : 11/10/2019 7:03 pm : link
What is Barkley giving us that some JAG RB could not give us at this point? The offensive line maybe has 2 decent players. The defense is horrendously coached. We just gave up a 3rd round draft pick. This team is so badly managed it is a now a joke.

Look to the Ravens to see what good management and coaching look like.
Agree  
AndyMilligan : 11/10/2019 7:03 pm : link
with the OP. It must be said though that Adrian Peterson in his prime always faced stacked boxes and almost always produced.
Given the choice of Barkely or Darnold  
Matt M. : 11/10/2019 7:07 pm : link
I'll take Barkley 10 times out of 10.

That said, I fear they will have wasted his best years before they have this thing figured out.
Bull Shit  
Beer Man : 11/10/2019 7:08 pm : link
today you saw why you need to invest in an O-line. RBs can't do much when they are being hit one step after being handed the ball.
"It would have been a good pick if everything else was in place"  
blueberry : 11/10/2019 7:09 pm : link
If everything else was in place - we wouldn't have been picking #2
RE: I love Barkley  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/10/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14673441 joeinpa said:
Quote:
But his talents are being waisted this season


And this will be compounded by the fact they are unlikely to be good next season either.

So within Barkley's prime years, which are right now while he's not being paid significant dollars before his contract is up for renewal, 3 of them will have been wasted.

The return on investment will have been terrible. They already have to replace 3 of the 5 offensive linemen going into next season already.

The idea put out when he was drafted was that he alone can make the offensive line better than it really is.

Clearly, folks miscalcuated on that one because the argument is being put forward that he needs a good line to do work. Problem, is the Giants never had a quality line in place before taking him.

It's a mess.
The Dallas cowboys  
djm : 11/10/2019 7:12 pm : link
Disagree.

Funny how no one brings them up. Ever since they drafted zeke their offense has gone from ok to good or very good, overnight. And that coincided with romo retiring unexpectedly.
RE: Given the choice of Barkely or Darnold  
AndyMilligan : 11/10/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14673486 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I'll take Barkley 10 times out of 10.

That said, I fear they will have wasted his best years before they have this thing figured out.


This is a silly statement. If Barkley declines by age 28. Darnold will be entering his prime. This statement probably won't age well.
Hindsight is apparently 100/20  
aGiantGuy : 11/10/2019 7:13 pm : link
To the OP, the same argument you’re using to not draft Barkley is why you wouldn’t have drafted Nelson. Nelson is a guard, if you don’t spend a top 5 pick on an RB then you don’t spend it on a guard either. Which leaves CHUBB and Darnold, which makes me want to laugh. Colts just lost to the dolphins btw
RE: The Dallas cowboys  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14673511 djm said:
Quote:
Disagree.

Funny how no one brings them up. Ever since they drafted zeke their offense has gone from ok to good or very good, overnight. And that coincided with romo retiring unexpectedly.


Then I guess Elliott is a lot better than Barkley, because having Barkley hasn't done shit for this team.
RE: RE: Do not think you can say that until you get a capable coach and GM in  
PetesHereNow : 11/10/2019 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14673457 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14673445 PetesHereNow said:


Quote:


here. Look at how Carolina uses CMac. Different runs, various pass routes, unpredictability. I literally guess the Giants’ plays a majority of the time from my recliner. If I can do that, I promise the opposing coaches can, too.

You call the Gm incapable and then use CMac as your positive example. If you don’t see the irony in that my man...


Well he actually put a supporting cast around CMac. Show me Barkley with a good coach, a decent line, and a WR who scares a defense deep.
This thread is why I don't invest much confidence  
CardinalX : 11/10/2019 7:14 pm : link
In random online chat thread opinions
In my dreams  
GiantEgo : 11/10/2019 7:16 pm : link
A new GM comes in and trades Barkley for draft picks. He's a good player but not what the Giants need now
This shit has to stop around here  
djm : 11/10/2019 7:18 pm : link
You guys love to single out one player for all the problems with a team. Every time this team loses some of you can’t wait to blame everything on the Barkley pick. As if there weren’t 20 other things the giants did wrong that no one wants to acknowledge, nope, let’s go after the Barkley pick.

Lawrence Taylor could have been lost on a bad team if things go differently for him. What if the saints drafted LT? Are they winning 2 titles? With Bobby Hebert at qb? Doesn’t mean LT was a bad pick.

The giants failed to build around Beckham. They failed to build around Barkley. Shit, for 5 years they failed to build around the HOF qb and this place went ape shit about how fast the giants needed to move on from the qb. How’d that turn out? Same shit, different day.

The team sucks. Barkley is great.
RE: I would like to see him with a serviceable line  
GiantEgo : 11/10/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14673435 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
I don't think Saquon getting crushed repeatedly 3 yards behind the LOS each play is a fair rep of what he is or what he can do.


Wasn't this year supposed to be "serviceable"? Gettleman should be fired for that collection of body bags he calls a line
RE: The Dallas cowboys  
Josh in the City : 11/10/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14673511 djm said:
Quote:
Disagree.

Funny how no one brings them up. Ever since they drafted zeke their offense has gone from ok to good or very good, overnight. And that coincided with romo retiring unexpectedly.


Ummmm what? Dallas has one of the best offensive lines in football and they invested both high picks and dollars to that entire group. That being said, they only paid Barkley after they secured both their oline and their defense for the long term. Make fun of jones all you want but he built his team the right way. We’re just lucky they’ve stuck with Garrett at hc as long as they have. That’s a super bowl caliber roster..
I thought this was obvious last season?  
RUNYG : 11/10/2019 7:20 pm : link
When Barkley had an all time great season and the team still went 5-11?
This GM has made some critical mistakes...  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 7:21 pm : link
in rebuilding this team.

Drafting Barkley, keeping Eli, Solder, the Lauletta situation, trading for Williams (we're going to have to lay out $15M+ for him), I thought the Baker trade up was too aggressive, etc.

And his so called specialty - building an OL - is looking barely better than Reese...

RE: This thread is why I don't invest much confidence  
Josh in the City : 11/10/2019 7:21 pm : link
In comment 14673525 CardinalX said:
Quote:
In random online chat thread opinions


This thread is exactly why you should start paying attention. Because people like you are the problem. You believe anything gettleman wants to sell you without the ability to look at facts.
I like all the  
lax counsel : 11/10/2019 7:21 pm : link
Show me barkley with “XYZ” posts. The reason he doesn’t have these pieces around him is because he is a complimentary piece on a team without much else. Would you go buy a Mercedes if you couldn’t afford your monthly rent? The only thing that kept DG from looking like a complete fool with the Barkley selection today was Jones.

It’s really other worldly to me that fans of the nfl still don’t understand why running back is a position of limited return. But these are the same posters who have dug in their heels that the giants can go no wrong.
Dumb premise.  
Mr. Bungle : 11/10/2019 7:22 pm : link
You can say that about any position in football.
RE: This shit has to stop around here  
eugibs : 11/10/2019 7:23 pm : link
In comment 14673545 djm said:
Quote:
You guys love to single out one player for all the problems with a team. Every time this team loses some of you can’t wait to blame everything on the Barkley pick. As if there weren’t 20 other things the giants did wrong that no one wants to acknowledge, nope, let’s go after the Barkley pick.

Lawrence Taylor could have been lost on a bad team if things go differently for him. What if the saints drafted LT? Are they winning 2 titles? With Bobby Hebert at qb? Doesn’t mean LT was a bad pick.

The giants failed to build around Beckham. They failed to build around Barkley. Shit, for 5 years they failed to build around the HOF qb and this place went ape shit about how fast the giants needed to move on from the qb. How’d that turn out? Same shit, different day.

The team sucks. Barkley is great.


Why is Barkley great? He’s had one good statistical season for a 5-11 team and now what’s shaping up to be a lost season for a probably worse than 5-11 team. There has not been a single game he has played in where he has made the difference between the offense doing enough to win and not doing enough to win. If Wayne Gallman and Orleans Darkwa has split Barkley’s touches over the last two years, the Giants are in exactly the same place. So what exactly is so great?
For the sames reasons people liked OBJ  
AnnapolisMike : 11/10/2019 7:31 pm : link
They like Barkley. He is or should be a star. But Stars don't win you games. Good defenses and a solid OL win you games. The Giants have had neither in 8 years.
Biggest whiner on this board  
McNally's_Nuts : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
and it’s not even close.

Hope you don’t sprain your AC joint patting yourself on the back.
Josh..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
is adorable.

He spent the past two years whining about not taking Darnold over Barkley. Now, he's spent the weeks since Barkley was injured saying we shouldn't have taken a RB.

He basically repackages the same garbage under a different title and posts it over and over again.

Dude just quit it  
aGiantGuy : 11/10/2019 7:36 pm : link
In comment 14673572 eugibs said:
Quote:
In comment 14673545 djm said:


Quote:


You guys love to single out one player for all the problems with a team. Every time this team loses some of you can’t wait to blame everything on the Barkley pick. As if there weren’t 20 other things the giants did wrong that no one wants to acknowledge, nope, let’s go after the Barkley pick.

Lawrence Taylor could have been lost on a bad team if things go differently for him. What if the saints drafted LT? Are they winning 2 titles? With Bobby Hebert at qb? Doesn’t mean LT was a bad pick.

The giants failed to build around Beckham. They failed to build around Barkley. Shit, for 5 years they failed to build around the HOF qb and this place went ape shit about how fast the giants needed to move on from the qb. How’d that turn out? Same shit, different day.

The team sucks. Barkley is great.



Why is Barkley great? He’s had one good statistical season for a 5-11 team and now what’s shaping up to be a lost season for a probably worse than 5-11 team. There has not been a single game he has played in where he has made the difference between the offense doing enough to win and not doing enough to win. If Wayne Gallman and Orleans Darkwa has split Barkley’s touches over the last two years, the Giants are in exactly the same place. So what exactly is so great?

Darkwa played all 2017 and got 857 scrimmage yards and 5 td’s. Barkley had 2028 scrimmage yds with 15 td’s. So your argument is essentially that 1200 yards and 10 extra td’s are worthless in terms of winning football games... You my friend are the smartest man in the room.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/10/2019 7:36 pm : link
this is funny, and probably unintentionally funny:

Quote:
Why is Barkley great? He’s had one good statistical season for a 5-11 team


Umm. he's only had one full season!
RE: For the sames reasons people liked OBJ  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14673604 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
They like Barkley. He is or should be a star. But Stars don't win you games. Good defenses and a solid OL win you games. The Giants have had neither in 8 years.


Spot on.

Too many Giants fans prefer style over substance...
Whatever !!!  
Bluesbreaker : 11/10/2019 7:37 pm : link
Our O-LINE Is a disaster
He should have a had at least four weeks before
he even saw the practice field minimal no matter
how he said he felt . Thats on the coach .
We have seen what a spectacular he is .
Not to mention that the HC has not a clue how to
best use him .
If he ran behind the Dallas O-line he would be
the League leader without question .
If it wasn't Barkley, it was Darnold.  
Matt M. : 11/10/2019 7:38 pm : link
Would anyone really be happier with Darnold as their QB for the next 10 years?

Personally, I wanted Barkley, but my plan B was trade down and possibly take Jackson. That is also not revisionist history if you go look it up leading to the draft. There was not another QB in the draft who would have taken and none at #2.
RE: If it wasn't Barkley, it was Darnold.  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 7:46 pm : link
In comment 14673640 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Would anyone really be happier with Darnold as their QB for the next 10 years?

Personally, I wanted Barkley, but my plan B was trade down and possibly take Jackson. That is also not revisionist history if you go look it up leading to the draft. There was not another QB in the draft who would have taken and none at #2.


Maybe. Darnold really concerned me with the "ghosts" comment two weeks ago. But he looked much better today.

I'll say this - he'd have more weapons here. And the Jets OL is as bad as ours...
...  
christian : 11/10/2019 7:46 pm : link
Barkley had a really nice back half of the year running the ball in 2018, and an up and down first half.

He's had an injured and ineffective first half this year.

When the line has played well, he's played well. When the the line has been bad, his numbers aren't there.

It's stupid obvious the Giants need tremendous help on their line.
Last year, with a fairly lousy line, and an average QB  
CT Charlie : 11/10/2019 7:47 pm : link
Barkley was brilliant. If we, a) fix the line, and b) let SB completely heal, he can do extraordinary things again. Wasn't the injury supposed to be a 6-8 week minimum? Dumb. Barkley wanted to be a hero, and he's being humbled by a dicey ankle/calf.
RE: and who are you taking instead?  
oldutican : 11/10/2019 7:52 pm : link
In comment 14673439 islander1 said:
Quote:
the rest of the QB's aren't better than Jones.

An offensive guard out of Notre Dame? Really?


Simple. Trade down.
Giants has plenty of calls to trade down  
Metnut : 11/10/2019 7:52 pm : link
Of course our genius GM said he told them to “not waste his time” and then took a fucking RB #2 overall.

Tough time to be a Giants fan.
RE:  
oldutican : 11/10/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14673497 blueberry said:
Quote:
If everything else was in place - we wouldn't have been picking #2


Which is you don’t take a RB with 2nd pick.
RE: RE: This thread is why I don't invest much confidence  
section125 : 11/10/2019 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14673560 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14673525 CardinalX said:


Quote:


In random online chat thread opinions



This thread is exactly why you should start paying attention. Because people like you are the problem. You believe anything gettleman wants to sell you without the ability to look at facts.


Geez. The pot calling the kettle....
I wasn't a fan of the pick  
fkap : 11/10/2019 7:57 pm : link
but be fair. DG has been trying to upgrade the line for the two years he's been here. Those efforts failed. IF they had succeeded, SB would be in a position to display the HOF talent envisioned he was selected.

You don't run a team planning for your efforts to fail.

Great RBs don't need "ideal" surroundings. Bad ones do. Good ones do well with OK support. Great ones turn the game upside down with OK support and are difference makers. On a good Sunday, Barkley barely gets anything resembling OK around him.

They were in a position to grab someone with HOF potential, grabbed him, and TRIED to build a line.

You have to invest in a RB. Certainly an argument could be made that you can get better value out of investing a little less, but you still need to invest.
RE: RE: I would like to see him with a serviceable line  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/10/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14673438 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14673435 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


I don't think Saquon getting crushed repeatedly 3 yards behind the LOS each play is a fair rep of what he is or what he can do.



I would have liked to see a serviceable line BEFORE investing the #2 overall pick in a meaningless position. That’s the point.


It doesn't work like that.

This notion that there is a certain order here, that you need to build to OL before getting skill players is asinine. "Sorry, can't draft this talented player, so let's get an inferior line prospect".

Windows open and close too quickly today. You don't build rosters over the costs of 6 years anymore.

You build the whole fucking thing at once, take the best players you can. Fill the holes with FA.
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