Today's performances by Saquon and Leveon are all you needed to see to understand why you don't invest in RB's in today's NFL. Whether you want to blame it on injury, situation, offensive line, it simply doesn't matter. RB's are successful when the situation around them is ideal and they aren't when it becomes their responsibility to lift everyone else. It's are a complementary position, not a prime one.
On top of that, the shelf life of RB's and their ability to stay on the field are both below optimal. For better or worse, workhorse backs take a beating and as seasons progress the bumps and bruises starts to affect them.
As much as we all love Barkley as a player, taking him at #2 last year was a collasal mistake. It would have been a good pick if everything else was in place and we needed a playmaker to get us over the top. Unfortunately, nothing else was in place and by the time everything gets in place, he'll be done with his rookie contract and it will be foolish to pay him what he's going to want. That pick set this franchise back and this is not soething that's being said in hindsight. Many people here said it at the time.
It's time this team invests in the offensive line and defense FIRST before addressing positions that don't mean anything in today's league. This franchise has been a failure for far too long and it's inexcusable.
You can't say SB was a mistake without being certain who you'd pick in his stead. And, we're still only 1.5 years in with a shitty roster and injuries to SB wrecking his season.
I wouldn't have made the Jones pick, but SB was the best player in the draft and you can't force a QB with the #2 overall pick simply because he's a QB. Ringing that bell repeatedly is short-sighted and smells desperate for success.
You can't say SB was a mistake without being certain who you'd pick in his stead. And, we're still only 1.5 years in with a shitty roster and injuries to SB wrecking his season.
I wouldn't have made the Jones pick, but SB was the best player in the draft and you can't force a QB with the #2 overall pick simply because he's a QB. Ringing that bell repeatedly is short-sighted and smells desperate for success.
Complete horseshit. If there wasn't a player you were convinced about at #2 then trade down and accumulate future draft capital. Let's not forget how many needy teams there were at QB in what was then considered a "great" QB class. Let's also not forget that Gettleman said he wouldn't even listen to offers.
yup
The Cardinals gave up a single 3rd to move from 15 to 10.
I would not trade out of 2nd overall for anything less than an additional 1st round pick. Which judging by the other trades, wasn't a value other teams were willing to give up to move up.
BBI loves a trade down. Every year, trade down. Never happens.
But your trade down proclamation goes right to my previous post - is there any guarantee with this coaching staff that any of those picks are good?
The Cardinals gave up a single 3rd to move from 15 to 10.
I would not trade out of 2nd overall for anything less than an additional 1st round pick. Which judging by the other trades, wasn't a value other teams were willing to give up to move up.
BBI loves a trade down. Every year, trade down. Never happens.
Jets made that trade a month before the draft! You don't think the Giants could have gotten at LEAST an additional 1st round pick for a team to get in front of the Jets (who everyone knew were targeting one of the QB's)!? If so, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Don't be so naive.
The Cardinals gave up a single 3rd to move from 15 to 10.
I would not trade out of 2nd overall for anything less than an additional 1st round pick. Which judging by the other trades, wasn't a value other teams were willing to give up to move up.
BBI loves a trade down. Every year, trade down. Never happens.
You wouldn't have taken 3 #2s to move down 4 spots?
You can't have that conversation without 1st round pick/s being involved.
Not sure blown-away needs to be achieved, hopefully fair value+. And if DG couldn't get it then agree you stay where you are. But then we are stuck at the positional value debate and arguing against a hand-of-god viewpoint...
And we kn
Barkely could have been there at 6
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The Jets gave up 3 2nd's to move from 6 to 3.
The Cardinals gave up a single 3rd to move from 15 to 10.
I would not trade out of 2nd overall for anything less than an additional 1st round pick. Which judging by the other trades, wasn't a value other teams were willing to give up to move up.
BBI loves a trade down. Every year, trade down. Never happens.
You wouldn't have taken 3 #2s to move down 4 spots?
The problem is (from what you hear from the beat people covering the team) that the Giants didn't want to trade with the Jets out of fear that they would be handing them Darnold and didn't want to be involved in such a historic transaction. I know Dottino was one of those pounding that drum and he works to give the company line. Thus, they went to the Colts with the exact same offer and a deal was struck.
It was an incredibly poor decision. Not making a deal for public relations just because the team offering it was the team you share a stadium with was shortsighted similar to the Mets not wanting to trade with the Yankees.
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In comment 14675240 Britt in VA said:
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The Jets gave up 3 2nd's to move from 6 to 3.
The Cardinals gave up a single 3rd to move from 15 to 10.
I would not trade out of 2nd overall for anything less than an additional 1st round pick. Which judging by the other trades, wasn't a value other teams were willing to give up to move up.
BBI loves a trade down. Every year, trade down. Never happens.
You wouldn't have taken 3 #2s to move down 4 spots?
The problem is (from what you hear from the beat people covering the team) that the Giants didn't want to trade with the Jets out of fear that they would be handing them Darnold and didn't want to be involved in such a historic transaction. I know Dottino was one of those pounding that drum and he works to give the company line. Thus, they went to the Colts with the exact same offer and a deal was struck.
It was an incredibly poor decision. Not making a deal for public relations just because the team offering it was the team you share a stadium with was shortsighted similar to the Mets not wanting to trade with the Yankees.
Didn't they hand them Darnold anyway by taking Saquon at #2?
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so no.
Barkely could have been there at 6
You don't think the Browns would have taken him at 4?
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I'm not just taking anything for a trade up. We need to be blown away for the #2 overall pick. And regardless of DG's sound bytes I'm sure he had plenty of conversations about what teams were willing to give to move up and they weren't worth pursuing.
Not sure blown-away needs to be achieved, hopefully fair value+. And if DG couldn't get it then agree you stay where you are. But then we are stuck at the positional value debate and arguing against a hand-of-god viewpoint...
And we kn
I don't really have any interesting in debating Barkley's value. Its been beaten to death and we all see it differently - its a waste of time.
DG felt that Barkley was a can't miss prospect that would help the team get to the playoffs. He didn't accurately assess the state of the team. He did take a great player.
Time to move on folks. And I suggest digging deeper on this if you are going to bother starting more threads on how this was a wasted pick. Our other picks over the years haven't progressed (outside of a couple) - why isn't that the focus? Is it because it doesn't make for a sweet thread title? Why is our entire OL playing worse than last year? Why is our secondary fucking awful? How come players on other teams get better and so few of ours do?
The Barkley threads are a waste of everyone's time.
All these dummies see his recent lack of production as an opportunity to beat the drum. Forgetting that it has coincided with his injury and a league worst average yards first contact.
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In comment 14675246 UConn4523 said:
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I'm not just taking anything for a trade up. We need to be blown away for the #2 overall pick. And regardless of DG's sound bytes I'm sure he had plenty of conversations about what teams were willing to give to move up and they weren't worth pursuing.
Not sure blown-away needs to be achieved, hopefully fair value+. And if DG couldn't get it then agree you stay where you are. But then we are stuck at the positional value debate and arguing against a hand-of-god viewpoint...
And we kn
I don't really have any interesting in debating Barkley's value. Its been beaten to death and we all see it differently - its a waste of time.
DG felt that Barkley was a can't miss prospect that would help the team get to the playoffs. He didn't accurately assess the state of the team. He did take a great player.
Time to move on folks. And I suggest digging deeper on this if you are going to bother starting more threads on how this was a wasted pick. Our other picks over the years haven't progressed (outside of a couple) - why isn't that the focus? Is it because it doesn't make for a sweet thread title? Why is our entire OL playing worse than last year? Why is our secondary fucking awful? How come players on other teams get better and so few of ours do?
The Barkley threads are a waste of everyone's time.
Short answer: b/c the #2 pick in his first year as GM is the most important decision Gettleman has made since being hired.
Long answer: If you don't think that mistake is worth talking about then I'm not sure what you expect on a Giants message board. It was a colossal error in judgment in the biggest decision this team has made in the past two offseasons. And on top of that, sooner or later this team is going to have to decide whether to expound upon that error by investing in an extension.
As for not discussing it, you are making yet another thread on a topic that's discussed ad nauseam here. This message board is overflowing with posts about not drafting Barkley, I don't see the value in rehashing the same thing daily, but maybe that's just me.
Looking forward to this debate in 2023.
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That some are still beating this drum. Weird, pointless, stupid.
All these dummies see his recent lack of production as an opportunity to beat the drum. Forgetting that it has coincided with his injury and a league worst average yards first contact.
I'm not really in the "it was a terrible pick" camp, but the high likelihood of injury and state of the OL are arguments #1 and #2 why it was a bad idea
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In comment 14675246 UConn4523 said:
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I'm not just taking anything for a trade up. We need to be blown away for the #2 overall pick. And regardless of DG's sound bytes I'm sure he had plenty of conversations about what teams were willing to give to move up and they weren't worth pursuing.
Not sure blown-away needs to be achieved, hopefully fair value+. And if DG couldn't get it then agree you stay where you are. But then we are stuck at the positional value debate and arguing against a hand-of-god viewpoint...
And we kn
I don't really have any interesting in debating Barkley's value. Its been beaten to death and we all see it differently - its a waste of time.
DG felt that Barkley was a can't miss prospect that would help the team get to the playoffs. He didn't accurately assess the state of the team. He did take a great player.
Time to move on folks. And I suggest digging deeper on this if you are going to bother starting more threads on how this was a wasted pick. Our other picks over the years haven't progressed (outside of a couple) - why isn't that the focus? Is it because it doesn't make for a sweet thread title? Why is our entire OL playing worse than last year? Why is our secondary fucking awful? How come players on other teams get better and so few of ours do?
The Barkley threads are a waste of everyone's time.
Uconn its fine if you don't want to post about it but that's where this thread went.
And by the way, its not about Barkley being the issue...
As for not discussing it, you are making yet another thread on a topic that's discussed ad nauseam here. This message board is overflowing with posts about not drafting Barkley, I don't see the value in rehashing the same thing daily, but maybe that's just me.
Looking forward to this debate in 2023.
13 carries for 1 yd is going to make this board revisit that decision for as long as he's on the team. And it should...get used to it.
As least we can agree on that!
You haven't really answered me by the way. Do you have any confidence in this coaching staff to coach up the three 2nd rounders we would have gotten from the Jets?
I know my answer.
You haven't really answered me by the way. Do you have any confidence in this coaching staff to coach up the three 2nd rounders we would have gotten from the Jets?
I know my answer.
Not not at all.
When it rains it pours is how I look at the current Giants. Everything is looking like a bad move and its all being compounded. Barkley and Jones and a couple of others are bright spots hidden in the larger issue of shittiness.
That's what I mean by "waste of time". I realize its a message board and threads like these are inevitable, I just such much larger issues, ones that have been effecting all of our picks, not just one.
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and it's the relevant overall perspective, imv.
You can't say SB was a mistake without being certain who you'd pick in his stead. And, we're still only 1.5 years in with a shitty roster and injuries to SB wrecking his season.
I wouldn't have made the Jones pick, but SB was the best player in the draft and you can't force a QB with the #2 overall pick simply because he's a QB. Ringing that bell repeatedly is short-sighted and smells desperate for success.
Complete horseshit. If there wasn't a player you were convinced about at #2 then trade down and accumulate future draft capital. Let's not forget how many needy teams there were at QB in what was then considered a "great" QB class. Let's also not forget that Gettleman said he wouldn't even listen to offers.
I would've picked Chubb, and NYG would have as well if SB had gone #1. They WERE sold on SB, the best player in the draft. Inconvenient for you it didn't follow your line of thinking. Knowing now what those QBs look like? Not interested, skipping QB is looking like the correct call.
The problem with you Josh is you can't see past your own biases. It's also been debunked that the QB class was "great" even before the draft happened. The offers weren't there to be had. You get an "A" in Revisionist History, and Hindsight. Congrats.
Agree 100%, THAT was the actual gamble. I heard the only QB they even liked was Darnold, and so far looking good skipping him.
You can't invent a trade down that isn't there. You can believe there was one, but all word floating behind the scenes did not back up your belief.
I'm not a fan of drafting a RB #2, but there are a million other issues.
And Jones looks better than any 2018 QB other than Jackson.
These decisions change the history of the franchise. They either move it forward, keep it stuck, or move it backwards. And as the saying goes "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
If you are comfortable as a fan just accepting the big spoonfuls of bullsh-t this organization continues to serve you then by all means enjoy your ride on the cart into the abyss.
I think these are good discussion to learn from and share different views...
Let's say we don't re-sign SB, or things just fall apart and they clean house. I don't see a player in the 2018 who would've been a bigger difference maker right now than SB. Trade down smells great on paper, but often isn't realistic.
SB is also injured and surrounded by below average talent and coaching. He's only one puzzle piece among many struggling.
These decisions change the history of the franchise. They either move it forward, keep it stuck, or move it backwards. And as the saying goes "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
If you are comfortable as a fan just accepting the big spoonfuls of bullsh-t this organization continues to serve you then by all means enjoy your ride on the cart into the abyss.
I think these are good discussion to learn from and share different views...
I accept it because there's nothing I can do about it, not because I think they are making great decisions top to bottom. That's a detail I sometimes think gets lost on those that only want to post about how awful everything is.
Your ride is the same as mine, we are just handling it differently.
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by the "you can't change it, so why discuss it anymore" crew.
These decisions change the history of the franchise. They either move it forward, keep it stuck, or move it backwards. And as the saying goes "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
If you are comfortable as a fan just accepting the big spoonfuls of bullsh-t this organization continues to serve you then by all means enjoy your ride on the cart into the abyss.
I think these are good discussion to learn from and share different views...
I accept it because there's nothing I can do about it, not because I think they are making great decisions top to bottom. That's a detail I sometimes think gets lost on those that only want to post about how awful everything is.
Your ride is the same as mine, we are just handling it differently.
This is really what is at the heart of all this. Good post.
Let's say we don't re-sign SB, or things just fall apart and they clean house. I don't see a player in the 2018 who would've been a bigger difference maker right now than SB. Trade down smells great on paper, but often isn't realistic.
SB is also injured and surrounded by below average talent and coaching. He's only one puzzle piece among many struggling.
Gettleman thinking this team could compete in any fashion in 2018 is where he lost me. He's getting back in my good graces with Jones and Slayton, but I think he's done a poor job overall.
But, this thread is an opportunistic attempt to regain some cred. No more valid imo than 18 months ago. Giants picked a HoF caliber tailback and didn't believe in the QB prospects. Those components are looking well intact, and they got the QB they believed in a year later.
The larger point now is the 2020 offseason becomes crucial. They need to move on from the coaching staff, not spend like desperate drunken idiots during UFA on downtrending players (again), and nail the draft. Suddenly, the roster should begin to ascend.
You want to keep rolling the dice in these experts because everybody doesn’t bat a thousand or there is good with the bad or you whatever then go right ahead.
Some posters look at the mistakes made and the continued bad product on the field and suggest move on sooner than later...
End of the day I know the answer, it just fascinating to read the same points over and over and over.
An offensive guard out of Notre Dame? Really?
What does his school matter? You do realize he's one of the best OL in football already, right?