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Who Do You Want for Our Next Coach and GM??

EricJ : 11/10/2019 6:55 pm
I am asking this because I am seeing a lot of people saying we need to immediately fire both, but not a single person has provided us with any realistic alternative. Meaning, a coach and GM who are available and who would be an upgrade vs who we have now.

So, now is your chance to make that John Mara decision and make your selection.

Who do you want? The choices cannot already be employed as a GM or head coach.
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Whoever they are  
Les in TO : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
They should be strategically and philosophically aligned which I canít say is the case today
...  
christian : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
Just for shits and giggles, who would recruit old Ernie to fix this situation if Gettleman retired? Would that be prudent or loco?
.  
GiantEgo : 11/10/2019 7:36 pm : link
Somebody that has a track record of building a successful college program. The NFL is getting more like college every year
Mike McCarthy...a perennial playoff coach who has  
yatqb : 11/10/2019 7:37 pm : link
demonstrated that he's at least competent. I'd rather not "try out" another HC, even a guy like Ruhle, who's been so successful in college.
RE: RE: First of all, the coach does not pick the GM.  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14673615 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 14673600 Matt M. said:


Quote:


Second, I don't love every move Gettleman has made. But his drafts have been strong and he at least accomplished gutting this roster. Now, we need an entirely new coaching staff and Mara nowhere near the personnel.



Matt, totally agree.

You need that hierarchy and chain of command.

My feeling is, we are looking for something outside the box because of our situation from 2013 thru current.

To me, a SYSTEM and STAFF are the most imporant things to winning football games.


Where are these solid drafts coming from? If they happened, and these rookie and 1 year vet players are solid, why the hell is the team as bad as it is?

You guys are going on paper, not results. So far, Gettleman's results have been awful, with his former strength of selecting FAs being even worse than his drafts. Preserving this hierarchy just means more losing.
RE: RE: I am seeing a couple of solid answers..  
EricJ : 11/10/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14673614 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14673607 EricJ said:


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but also a few BS responses like BB and others who are already head coaches with other teams.




If the Giants share your mentality they'll never get out of the cellar.


You just don't understand my thoughts on this. It is easy to say fire the coach or GM but you need a plan. I mean, we get on the team's leadership for making it seem like they dont have a plan for the team. So, if you are going to fire these two guys, I want to hear your plan first.

Surely you have one right? Which two guys are out there right now who will do a better job if we fire both before this Sunday?
I'm good with DG, too. He's not the real problem.  
Red Dog : 11/10/2019 7:42 pm : link
Shurmur and his staff are the real problem.

And anybody who thinks Todd McShay is a good talent evaluator must believe in fairies and the Great Pumpkin. McShay is the fucking pits.
I want defensive HC  
yalebowl : 11/10/2019 7:46 pm : link
Pepper Johnson
John Fox
Wade Phillips

And have an OC that removes runs from the shotgun from the playbook. Insert play action passes and pitches to the running back. Learn to execute screen plays. Lean to tackle. Go back to a 4-3. Actually have a fullback that can block.

Stop having cornerbacks ten yards off the line of scrimmage. Draft in the first two rounds competent OL ,DE & LB players.
Great post  
EJJ : 11/10/2019 7:50 pm : link
I like DG believe it or not. I want an old school Defensive minded HC with a proven track record of winning! I want an OC that will stick with the running game.
Get back the NY Giants roots D-fence!!!!
RE: I want defensive HC  
EricJ : 11/10/2019 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14673667 yalebowl said:
Quote:
Pepper Johnson
John Fox
Wade Phillips

And have an OC that removes runs from the shotgun from the playbook. Insert play action passes and pitches to the running back. Learn to execute screen plays. Lean to tackle. Go back to a 4-3. Actually have a fullback that can block.

Stop having cornerbacks ten yards off the line of scrimmage. Draft in the first two rounds competent OL ,DE & LB players.


I think John Fox is done coaching. My opinion anyway. I am okay with Pepper or Wade as the DC, not the head coach.

I am surprised nobody said Jim Harbaugh yet.
I'm cool with keeping DG unless it brings Belichick or his son.  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 7:52 pm : link
I really think his son is the next McVay and would clean house for the chance.
RE: RE: RE: Gary Kubiak and me  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14673571 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14673530 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 14673520 Anakim said:


Quote:


.



Pass hard, his passing offense is straight out of the 80's.




He won a Super Bowl only a few years ago. That's good enough for me.


Are you serious? That was one of the best defenses in this Era.
Eric  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 7:54 pm : link
I'm not having any difficulty, you just can't accept my answer. My plan would be contact Bill Belichick's people and to offer him whatever the hell he wants to get him here. If it costs draft compensation to NE, so be it. Make it happen. Try everything. This could be Brady's last year and I think Bill likes our QB - it's not nearly the longshot people think it is in the year 2019.

If that doesn't work? Go outside the comforts of this organization. Hire a consultant, that isn't a former employee, to help you identify somebody like Bill and give him the keys to build the whole thing. A single chain of command that is responsible for all hires and is solely accountable for the teams success and failures. Change the way this organization is structured because the insulated personnel vs coaching departments is antiquated and outdated.
Time to ditch...  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 7:54 pm : link
the separate GM and HC positions.

Get a coach who wears both hats...
I think the next HC will have been a successful Head Coach,  
Simms11 : 11/10/2019 7:55 pm : link
most likely in the NFL. I donít think the Giants want to try out another guy after two failures in a row. Either way, the coordinators have to be top notch.
Urban Meyer.  
gtt350 : 11/10/2019 7:55 pm : link
,
I can get behind the shared HC/GM role  
Matt M. : 11/10/2019 7:56 pm : link
But, not the HC choosing a GM. Also, for this to work, it has to be an established HC.
RE: Time to ditch...  
Mike in NY : 11/10/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14673700 bw in dc said:
Quote:
the separate GM and HC positions.

Get a coach who wears both hats...


When has that ever worked? It is hard enough to do one job well let alone both. Not to mention GM/HC combinations tend to get too attached to the players they brought in because they donít want to look like a fool for bringing in those guys.
RE: RE: Time to ditch...  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14673713 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14673700 bw in dc said:


Quote:


the separate GM and HC positions.

Get a coach who wears both hats...



When has that ever worked? It is hard enough to do one job well let alone both. Not to mention GM/HC combinations tend to get too attached to the players they brought in because they donít want to look like a fool for bringing in those guys.


That's silly - you think that doesn't apply to a GM, who at the end of the day decides who to keep and who to cut?

If anything - removing that plausible deniability for poor performance means the HC/GM combo is more likely to cut an underperforming player because he's got nobody to blame but himself.
Promote someone that comes from a winning organizatikn  
huygens20 : 11/10/2019 8:00 pm : link
Not a stupid ass retread


Gm- promote someone from the pats, Steelers, Seattle, kc
Coach- promote a college coach who can bring in a coordinator with a track record of working with new qbs
RE: Eric  
EricJ : 11/10/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14673699 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I'm not having any difficulty, you just can't accept my answer. My plan would be contact Bill Belichick's people and to offer him whatever the hell he wants to get him here.


Aces, respectfully I am not accepting it because the chances that Bill B would leave New England for this shit show WHILE he is still under contract is the same long shot as the Giants actually winning the Superbowl this year. He has that organization running like a fine tuned machine.

Do I like your idea? Absolutely! sign me up.. but it isn't realistic.

I am also okay with the rest of your ideas but again no names are attached.
RE: I can get behind the shared HC/GM role  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14673711 Matt M. said:
Quote:
But, not the HC choosing a GM. Also, for this to work, it has to be an established HC.


And I have yet to see a name that's available that could handle both.

It can't be college guy or even a young hot shot assistant. It's just too much.
RE: I'm cool with keeping DG unless it brings Belichick or his son.  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14673689 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
I really think his son is the next McVay and would clean house for the chance.


LOL...who?
RE: Urban Meyer.  
pmmanning : 11/10/2019 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14673706 gtt350 said:
Quote:
,



1000%
I have no idea about GM  
Breeze_94 : 11/10/2019 8:05 pm : link
And I seriously doubt they get rid of DG no matter how bad this team is. He took over a 3-13 roster and found what looks to be a franchise QB. He is safe for now. You have to keep in mind that the Giants do not fire GM's very often. Reese was the first in nearly 40 something years.

Head Coach- I feel like I'm going to be in the minority with this but I'd love Jim Harbaugh. He turned SF around and took them to a SB. He is a CEO type of head coach- not some clown like Shurmur or McAdoo whos head is too far up his own ass to realize there is more to the team than just offense/QB play.
RE: RE: Eric  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 8:05 pm : link
In comment 14673732 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14673699 AcesUp said:


Quote:


I'm not having any difficulty, you just can't accept my answer. My plan would be contact Bill Belichick's people and to offer him whatever the hell he wants to get him here.



Aces, respectfully I am not accepting it because the chances that Bill B would leave New England for this shit show WHILE he is still under contract is the same long shot as the Giants actually winning the Superbowl this year. He has that organization running like a fine tuned machine.

Do I like your idea? Absolutely! sign me up.. but it isn't realistic.

I am also okay with the rest of your ideas but again no names are attached.


Bill has a history of being an opportunist and being a HC somewhere else hasn't stopped him from jumping ship in the past. If he likes Jones and Brady goes, this is a better opportunity. It's not as much of a longshot as people think.

I'm not qualified to give you names. There are people out there that are though. Gettleman/Shurmur ain't it, I know that much.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gary Kubiak and me  
Anakim : 11/10/2019 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14673697 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14673571 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14673530 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 14673520 Anakim said:


Quote:


.



Pass hard, his passing offense is straight out of the 80's.




He won a Super Bowl only a few years ago. That's good enough for me.



Are you serious? That was one of the best defenses in this Era.


Okay? And? They also had the #4 scoring offense.
RE: RE: RE: Eric  
EricJ : 11/10/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14673741 AcesUp said:
Quote:

I'm not qualified to give you names. There are people out there that are though. Gettleman/Shurmur ain't it, I know that much.


I agree that Shurmur is not the guy. For me, the jury is still out on Gettleman.

I am still challenging the arm chair owners out there who are quick to fire these two guys without naming REALISTIC replacements who can take this team and turn it into a winner.
RE: RE: Time to ditch...  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 8:12 pm : link
In comment 14673713 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14673700 bw in dc said:


Quote:


the separate GM and HC positions.

Get a coach who wears both hats...



When has that ever worked? It is hard enough to do one job well let alone both. Not to mention GM/HC combinations tend to get too attached to the players they brought in because they donít want to look like a fool for bringing in those guys.


It has worked. Worked for Mike Shanahan in Denver. Works with Belichick.

Unfortunately, the system is so etched in how the league has worked that it's just assumed to be the right way to do business.

If I were a coach, I wouldn't want someone else picking my players. College coaches pick their own players. They don't have the AD do it...

I'd let the HC be the GM, pick his capoligist, pick his scouting director, scouts etc.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Eric  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14673753 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14673741 AcesUp said:


Quote:



I'm not qualified to give you names. There are people out there that are though. Gettleman/Shurmur ain't it, I know that much.



I agree that Shurmur is not the guy. For me, the jury is still out on Gettleman.

I am still challenging the arm chair owners out there who are quick to fire these two guys without naming REALISTIC replacements who can take this team and turn it into a winner.


Quote:
I am also okay with the rest of your ideas but again no names are attached.


My "realistic" choice would be Matt Rhule if I'm forced to give you one. He has NFL experience and has built up two programs in Temple and Baylor that were in really ugly spots before his arrival. He also turned down the Jets because they wouldn't allow him to pick his staff - that shows balls as well as the desire to have control over his own success or failure. From my perspective, that shows that he gets it to a degree.

But again, nobody on this board has the kind of information at their disposal to give you a real answer. We don't have references or contacts in the industry. I have absolutely no idea who the impressive front office assistants are or who the faceless assistant coach that can be the next John Harbaugh. You're asking fans on a message board to identify a guy for a position that is intangible driven. We don't have the resources to do that but the Giants and outside consulting firms do.
I have no interest in changing the GM whatsoever right now  
Torrag : 11/10/2019 8:23 pm : link
This team was a trainwreck when he inherited it. It was always going to be an uphill battle to get it turned around. I'm still confident in his ability to improve this roster over time and build a contender.
.  
Danny Kanell : 11/10/2019 8:28 pm : link
Josh McDaniels is the clear #1 for me.
I wouldnít go the GM/HC route  
WillVAB : 11/10/2019 8:30 pm : link
Too many examples of that blowing up in the organizationís face.

It only works if you strike gold with someone like BB or Parcells. Huge gamble.

Philly tried it and it probably wouldíve wrecked their franchise if GM didnít stick around.
I don't understand  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 8:30 pm : link
how DG gets a pass while Shurmur needs to be fired tomorrow. They're equally responsible for us flatlining. DG completely botched his first and very critical offseason. He's been wasteful with resources, doesn't respect positional value and has missed out on opportunities to accelarate this rebuild. He's drafted well (we think, these guys lose their shine as they get into year 2, 3 etc) however it been from an adventageous position. He's done almost everything else poorly. He should be responsible for Shurmur's failures but he's not because of the dumbass way this organization is structured. So I guess he gets a pass on the coach.
It doesn't need to be a dual role  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 8:32 pm : link
But there should be one guy calling the shots and hiring the other. I personally would go with the personnel guy but if they identify the coach as the CEO, that works but they need a single chain.
Broncos were 19th in scoring offense 2015.  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 8:40 pm : link
.
Donít Want Gettleman  
Samiam : 11/10/2019 10:25 pm : link
I donít agree that heís drafted well; he just drafted better than Reese. Leaving aside players that could have helped instead of Barkley and Jones, he gave up a 3rd for Beal who came with a bad shoulder and a 3rd plus another pick for Leonard Williams who will cost major money and is not that good. These 3rds are picks around the top 70. In addition, are you convinced that Hernandez or Hill or Baker or Carter or the Xman are the real things. Better than Reese picks but thatís not saying much.

Last, if you get rid of the coach, get rid of the GM. They made that mistake getting rid of Coughlin
RE: Broncos were 19th in scoring offense 2015.  
Anakim : 11/10/2019 11:29 pm : link
In comment 14673825 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
.


Total offense. Yes. And BTW, that "all-decade" Broncos D wasn't even top-3 in the NFL that year

Point is that Kubiak has an advantage over all of these names: he has a Super Bowl to his name.
A GM with ZERO ties to the franchise  
moespree : 11/10/2019 11:35 pm : link
No past history with them, no past history with the methods the franchises uses. Brand new, no allegiances to anyone in the building. And allow this person to rebuild the entire front office any way he sees fit. From people to methods.

As for coach, whoever fits what the GM wants, is looking for, and program he is trying to implement.
RE: A GM with ZERO ties to the franchise  
bw in dc : 11/10/2019 11:37 pm : link
In comment 14674350 moespree said:
Quote:
No past history with them, no past history with the methods the franchises uses. Brand new, no allegiances to anyone in the building. And allow this person to rebuild the entire front office any way he sees fit. From people to methods.

As for coach, whoever fits what the GM wants, is looking for, and program he is trying to implement.


All good thoughts.

But we all know who is warming up in the Giants Way bullpen to relieve Gettleman - Kevin Abrams...
RE: RE: Broncos were 19th in scoring offense 2015.  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 11:40 pm : link
In comment 14674333 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14673825 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


.



Total offense. Yes. And BTW, that "all-decade" Broncos D wasn't even top-3 in the NFL that year

Point is that Kubiak has an advantage over all of these names: he has a Super Bowl to his name.


4.4 yards per play!!! Nuff fucking said.
Kevin Abrams and Mike McCarthy  
St. Jimmy : 11/10/2019 11:41 pm : link
has Mara written all over it.
McDaniels and Riddick  
adamg : 11/10/2019 11:53 pm : link
Let's go.
I'd prefer a HC who's not going to call his own plays unless  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/10/2019 11:57 pm : link
he has a Wade Phillips-type vet running the other side of the team. I want the HC focusing on the entire team and game, not just one aspect of it.
Reality is Mara will bring in Ernie again to "consult"  
moespree : 11/10/2019 11:59 pm : link
And whoever knows the most about the 1972 Balitmore Colts secondary will be the one Ernie recommends.
I to want someone as GM with no ties at all  
KevinBBWC : 11/11/2019 12:19 am : link
to the Giants. Need a completely fresh start. Don't want Accorsi involved at all either.
Bill Cowher  
MtDizzle : 11/11/2019 12:19 am : link
13 years after BBI was clamoring for him.
RE: First of all, the coach does not pick the GM.  
santacruzom : 11/11/2019 12:25 am : link
In comment 14673600 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Second, I don't love every move Gettleman has made. But his drafts have been strong and he at least accomplished gutting this roster. Now, we need an entirely new coaching staff and Mara nowhere near the personnel.


His drafts have been pretty good. Considering he's held the 2nd and 6th slots, you'd expect them to be.
RE: RE: Broncos were 19th in scoring offense 2015.  
santacruzom : 11/11/2019 12:35 am : link
In comment 14674333 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14673825 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


.



Total offense. Yes. And BTW, that "all-decade" Broncos D wasn't even top-3 in the NFL that year

Point is that Kubiak has an advantage over all of these names: he has a Super Bowl to his name.


Gettleman has something like 7. I forget, but I'm sure he will remind us all at some point.
RE: RE: First of all, the coach does not pick the GM.  
EricJ : 11/11/2019 8:40 am : link
In comment 14674394 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 14673600 Matt M. said:


Quote:


Second, I don't love every move Gettleman has made. But his drafts have been strong and he at least accomplished gutting this roster. Now, we need an entirely new coaching staff and Mara nowhere near the personnel.



His drafts have been pretty good. Considering he's held the 2nd and 6th slots, you'd expect them to be.


Well I suppose it is easier to find a good player when you draft that high, but there have been plenty of picks in this league in the top 10 that turned into a bust.

We even have people now (after the past two weeks) hinting at Barkley being a bust.

I do think part of our problem at offensive line is coaching. There is no way we can go all of these years without finding ONE guy who can play on the line (sans Hernandez). Something else has to be happening here.
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