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Who Do You Want for Our Next Coach and GM??

EricJ : 11/10/2019 6:55 pm
I am asking this because I am seeing a lot of people saying we need to immediately fire both, but not a single person has provided us with any realistic alternative. Meaning, a coach and GM who are available and who would be an upgrade vs who we have now.

So, now is your chance to make that John Mara decision and make your selection.

Who do you want? The choices cannot already be employed as a GM or head coach.
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Not an adult  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 11/10/2019 6:56 pm : link
.
Abandon the current antiquated model  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 7:01 pm : link
The next head coach should be hired with full autonomy to pick his staff, including the GM/personnel people. The three top guys on my list would be Josh McDaniels, Greg Roman, and Matt Rhule.

But even more critical than the names is that the structure must be overhauled.
Matt Rhule, PJ Fleck, Salah, Dabo, McDaniels. Maybe Richard's,  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 7:02 pm : link
:
Greg Roman possibly as well.  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 7:03 pm : link
:
Stephen Belichick  
Justlurking : 11/10/2019 7:03 pm : link
And whomever his dad tells him we should hire as GM
I'm ok with DG...  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 7:04 pm : link
...but Shurmur is done.

The staff, and system, blows.

The arrow is pointing downward.

It had to be pointing upwards at the end of 2019 and there's no way that's happening now.

Any of the HC names mentioned will NOT have any interest  
Sean : 11/10/2019 7:05 pm : link
with Gettleman in place as GM. There really is no argument made to keep Gettleman.
Terps is 100% correct  
Mike from Ohio : 11/10/2019 7:06 pm : link
There needs to be one person owning the football decisions and fully accountable for the product on the field. Right now there is a GM playing a long game and a coach playing a short game. That is bad for the team. But this is not the way the Giants have ever done it, so I don’t think it is something John Mara can process and consider.
Gettleman absolutely must go  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 7:07 pm : link
No good head coach candidate is going to want to work with this guy having any influence at all. If you believe Mike Lombardi, McDaniels walked away from the Giants job because of Gettleman staying in the interview that the GM would retain personnel power.
so what HC's currently..  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 7:08 pm : link
...have picked their own GM?
I like an Old school coach  
GoDeep13 : 11/10/2019 7:11 pm : link
Head Coach:

Chuck Pagano
Mike Munchak
Leslie Frazier


As GM. I actually like Gettleman and his approach. But I’ve always been intrigued with Todd McShay ability to be a GM. I like talent evaluators.
I don’t have an issue with DG  
WillVAB : 11/10/2019 7:11 pm : link
Not yet anyways. If he blows the off-season next year he should be gone.

They need a new HC with the autonomy to bring in his own staff. I’d prefer a defensive minded HC — the DC from SF or maybe Ricard from Dallas. I wouldn’t mind Roman out of Baltimore either.
During the search that led to macadoo I  
idiotsavant : 11/10/2019 7:12 pm : link
I ranted about shanny Jr and the (then falcons) way of outside zone running that sets up roll out Qb designed runs and or roll out passes.

Neither Macadoo not the shurm believe in using line run action to improve line outcomes on pass plays.

That's the antiquated Achilles heel of the past so many years and broadly speaking where to start, even if not the shanny tree, at least a head coach and OC who get that concept broadly speaking.
RE: so what HC's currently..  
Go Terps : 11/10/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14673492 BillKo said:
Quote:
...have picked their own GM?


Off the top of my head, I believe SF, Seattle, and Oakland have essentially all done that.
Gary Kubiak and me  
Anakim : 11/10/2019 7:13 pm : link
.
Just ask yourself  
thrunthrublue : 11/10/2019 7:16 pm : link
If the giants had gone this season without a head coach, what would their record be? If not for a missed chip shot field goal this team is effectively 1 and 9.....with shurmur. These hapless mr. Softies make any team they play look like HOF contenders, regardless of their record, look at how the jets dominated the giants in all phases of play. Fire the 17 and 49 reason.
RE: Gary Kubiak and me  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/10/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14673520 Anakim said:
Quote:
.


Pass hard, his passing offense is straight out of the 80's.
One of the following for HC  
Mike in NY : 11/10/2019 7:16 pm : link
Dan Campbell
Matt Eberflus
Robert Saleh

Give HC free reign to locate a GM other than themself who HC can work with to build the franchise
RE: RE: so what HC's currently..  
ron mexico : 11/10/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14673513 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14673492 BillKo said:


Quote:


...have picked their own GM?



Off the top of my head, I believe SF, Seattle, and Oakland have essentially all done that.


Gase
Steal Jason garret from dallas  
ron mexico : 11/10/2019 7:17 pm : link
He isn’t under contract for next year.
The problem is that John Mara will make the choice  
Steve in ATL : 11/10/2019 7:18 pm : link
I wish that the NFL would recommend someone to make those discisions and that the Giants would hire that person to make the hiring decisions for Giants.
RE: Steal Jason garret from dallas  
Mike in NY : 11/10/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14673541 ron mexico said:
Quote:
He isn’t under contract for next year.


He is also a crappy HC who has benefited from a great OL and Defensive Coordinator to feast on NFC East. His team was the only other one to lose to the Jets
Godfather offer to Belichick  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 7:19 pm : link
I'm serious. Don't let him say no.
RE: Gettleman absolutely must go  
Justlurking : 11/10/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14673482 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No good head coach candidate is going to want to work with this guy having any influence at all. If you believe Mike Lombardi, McDaniels walked away from the Giants job because of Gettleman staying in the interview that the GM would retain personnel power.


He has to go. He is so bad.
I really like Brian Flores in Miami..  
Sean : 11/10/2019 7:19 pm : link
They’ve found their guy imo.
RE: RE: RE: so what HC's currently..  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14673534 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14673513 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14673492 BillKo said:


Quote:


...have picked their own GM?



Off the top of my head, I believe SF, Seattle, and Oakland have essentially all done that.



Gase


Oakland has it because of the name, Gruden.

San Fran has made it work.

Are we sure Carrol has that choice when he was first there? I tend to doubt it.....he sorta made his mark as his tenure went on there.

Gase? F'ing joke to let a guy like that pick.

I guess the point is, only 4 of 32 teams are doing it.........

I don't agree with giving a HC that sorta power unless he's an established guy with a winning history.
RE: RE: Gary Kubiak and me  
Anakim : 11/10/2019 7:23 pm : link
In comment 14673530 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14673520 Anakim said:


Quote:


.



Pass hard, his passing offense is straight out of the 80's.



He won a Super Bowl only a few years ago. That's good enough for me.
I’d keep Gettleman  
Emil : 11/10/2019 7:23 pm : link
Put Matt Rhule high on my list
Kris Richard is a guy I like a lot  
Jay on the Island : 11/10/2019 7:23 pm : link
Dan Campbell is another. I’d try to lure Shaw and Riley away from their programs but I doubt they show any interest in leaving.
RE: I’d keep Gettleman  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14673574 Emil said:
Quote:
Put Matt Rhule high on my list


Something like this makes sense.

Giving a young college guy full control I believe is not prudent at all.

The first issue is, guy feels the pressure and bolts back to college, you're screwed.

You need a solid GM. I think DG is the guy - and just because he picked the wrong coach - doesn't mean he can't pick the right one next time.

He probably looked at Shurmur as a guy who could go to school on what he did wrong in Cleveland and get it right this time..........obviously, that's not happening and he needs to be fired.
RE: RE: so what HC's currently..  
Sammo85 : 11/10/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14673513 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14673492 BillKo said:


Quote:


...have picked their own GM?



Off the top of my head, I believe SF, Seattle, and Oakland have essentially all done that.


KC. Remember Reid got Dorsey fired in the power struggle over the roster. O’Brien won a power struggle in Houston. Kingsbury basically has de facto power in Arizona now over Keim with his shaky status and with being able to be going to ownership.

Pats obviously are another with Belichick and his crew. Peyton has a lot of influence now and larger share of decision making power in NO.
Totally agree with Terps  
Oscar : 11/10/2019 7:27 pm : link
Bring in a franchise builder and let him make every call. If you let Gettleman hire someone else and run the draft with Chris Mara and make all personnel decisions it’s pointless.

The Giants are operating like it’s 1985.
RE: RE: RE: so what HC's currently..  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 7:29 pm : link
In comment 14673584 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14673513 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14673492 BillKo said:


Quote:


...have picked their own GM?



Off the top of my head, I believe SF, Seattle, and Oakland have essentially all done that.



KC. Remember Reid got Dorsey fired in the power struggle over the roster. O’Brien won a power struggle in Houston. Kingsbury basically has de facto power in Arizona now over Keim with his shaky status and with being able to be going to ownership.

Pats obviously are another with Belichick and his crew. Peyton has a lot of influence now and larger share of decision making power in NO.


The point here, most of those guys mentioned have LONG legacies.

If you do it that way, hire that type of guy.

But, who like that is really avaiable?
Someone who has a better offensive mind that slamming Barkley into  
SterlingArcher : 11/10/2019 7:29 pm : link
the middle of line on 1st and 2nd down and throwing a 6 yard pass when they need 9!
Count me in on Greg Roman  
Anakim : 11/10/2019 7:30 pm : link
He'd be the top coordinator turned HC I'd want to go after
First of all, the coach does not pick the GM.  
Matt M. : 11/10/2019 7:30 pm : link
Second, I don't love every move Gettleman has made. But his drafts have been strong and he at least accomplished gutting this roster. Now, we need an entirely new coaching staff and Mara nowhere near the personnel.
I am seeing a couple of solid answers..  
EricJ : 11/10/2019 7:32 pm : link
but also a few BS responses like BB and others who are already head coaches with other teams.

My top-3 choices:  
Anakim : 11/10/2019 7:33 pm : link
Gary Kubiak
Matt Rhule
Greg Roman
Another vote for the single HC/GM model here as well  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 7:34 pm : link
If we've learned anything from watching the Giants over the past 8 years - it's that the GM/HC model is resulting in a lot of square peg/round hole situations. Even when they find talent, they don't use it effectively likely because the HC and GM aren't on the same page.

I wouldn't even go looking for the next big thing coordinator-wise. I'd find someone who's good at management (I think this is why so many people point to former ST coaches as highly effective HCs). Give them the keys, get them to hire coordinators, some scouts that know what kind of players they're looking for, and make them fully accountable. Here's 3 years - if you aren't making progress you're not getting a 4th (or seeing all 3 if you're moving backwards).

The football lifecycle is too short now - careers are relatively short, roster turnover is high in FA. There's no sense in having a GM up top looking after the long term health of the franchise anymore, because it can all change within a season or two. The stability offered by having a separated GM/HC structure has been offset by the instability introduced by miscommunication and lack of coordination on the vision.
RE: I am seeing a couple of solid answers..  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14673607 EricJ said:
Quote:
but also a few BS responses like BB and others who are already head coaches with other teams.


If the Giants share your mentality they'll never get out of the cellar.
RE: First of all, the coach does not pick the GM.  
BillKo : 11/10/2019 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14673600 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Second, I don't love every move Gettleman has made. But his drafts have been strong and he at least accomplished gutting this roster. Now, we need an entirely new coaching staff and Mara nowhere near the personnel.


Matt, totally agree.

You need that hierarchy and chain of command.

My feeling is, we are looking for something outside the box because of our situation from 2013 thru current.

To me, a SYSTEM and STAFF are the most imporant things to winning football games.

George Paton of the Vikes as GM  
jeff57 : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
Dave Toub of KC as coach.
Whoever they are  
Les in TO : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
They should be strategically and philosophically aligned which I can’t say is the case today
...  
christian : 11/10/2019 7:35 pm : link
Just for shits and giggles, who would recruit old Ernie to fix this situation if Gettleman retired? Would that be prudent or loco?
.  
GiantEgo : 11/10/2019 7:36 pm : link
Somebody that has a track record of building a successful college program. The NFL is getting more like college every year
Mike McCarthy...a perennial playoff coach who has  
yatqb : 11/10/2019 7:37 pm : link
demonstrated that he's at least competent. I'd rather not "try out" another HC, even a guy like Ruhle, who's been so successful in college.
RE: RE: First of all, the coach does not pick the GM.  
jcn56 : 11/10/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14673615 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 14673600 Matt M. said:


Quote:


Second, I don't love every move Gettleman has made. But his drafts have been strong and he at least accomplished gutting this roster. Now, we need an entirely new coaching staff and Mara nowhere near the personnel.



Matt, totally agree.

You need that hierarchy and chain of command.

My feeling is, we are looking for something outside the box because of our situation from 2013 thru current.

To me, a SYSTEM and STAFF are the most imporant things to winning football games.


Where are these solid drafts coming from? If they happened, and these rookie and 1 year vet players are solid, why the hell is the team as bad as it is?

You guys are going on paper, not results. So far, Gettleman's results have been awful, with his former strength of selecting FAs being even worse than his drafts. Preserving this hierarchy just means more losing.
RE: RE: I am seeing a couple of solid answers..  
EricJ : 11/10/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14673614 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14673607 EricJ said:


Quote:


but also a few BS responses like BB and others who are already head coaches with other teams.




If the Giants share your mentality they'll never get out of the cellar.


You just don't understand my thoughts on this. It is easy to say fire the coach or GM but you need a plan. I mean, we get on the team's leadership for making it seem like they dont have a plan for the team. So, if you are going to fire these two guys, I want to hear your plan first.

Surely you have one right? Which two guys are out there right now who will do a better job if we fire both before this Sunday?
I'm good with DG, too. He's not the real problem.  
Red Dog : 11/10/2019 7:42 pm : link
Shurmur and his staff are the real problem.

And anybody who thinks Todd McShay is a good talent evaluator must believe in fairies and the Great Pumpkin. McShay is the fucking pits.
I want defensive HC  
yalebowl : 11/10/2019 7:46 pm : link
Pepper Johnson
John Fox
Wade Phillips

And have an OC that removes runs from the shotgun from the playbook. Insert play action passes and pitches to the running back. Learn to execute screen plays. Lean to tackle. Go back to a 4-3. Actually have a fullback that can block.

Stop having cornerbacks ten yards off the line of scrimmage. Draft in the first two rounds competent OL ,DE & LB players.
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