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a Comparison to the 49ers

CMicks3110 : 11/10/2019 11:12 pm
The SF 49ers, owners of a 8-0 record, are in their third season with Kyle Shanahan. In his 1st two seasons with the 49ers he went 6-10 and 4-12. They actually had a -93 point differential last season.

For the 2019 season, they added Nick Bosa at the top of the draft, Dee Ford for a 2nd Round Pick, have Garrapolo for a full season, and have seen *extreme* improvements in a handful of young players, such as Arkhello Weatherspoon.

That is on top of an established core that includes the likes of Joe Staley, DeForest Buckner, Arik Armstead and Solomon Thomas.

I think the Giants do have talent, I am very suspect of their coaching, but they are right now set at several positions, DL and DL depth, G, TE, WR depth, RB, QB, ED depth, LB depth, CB Depth, 1 saftey spot. So they are short at the T position, C position, ED rusher, ILB, FS, and possibly Corner.

We have an awful lot of cap room and high draft picks. Can we get 5 starters this off-season via free agency and draft? I don't see why not--but the bigger question is can we can some elite talent.

We should be able to acquire two elite starters given our position in the draft and our free agency dollars. Those positions *should* be OT and ED.

San Francisco provides a good model, they added two elite rushers and have invested in the o-line (Ford, Bosa, and McGlinchey)

If we can add a chase young or andrew thomas, then sign a player like bud dupree/clowney, add some complimentary pieces like a competent free safety (devin mccourty anyone& gt;) and linebacker (maybe Ken Murray in Rd2?) and hope for improvements in some of young talent (baker, carter, jones) then I don't see why we can't make a major jump very quickly.

I am not as down on this team as many, I just think we need a bit more seasoning, as I think we do have some fairly significant pieces to move forward with (Jones, Barkley, Shepard, Engram, Hernandez, Lawrence, Williams, Tomlison, Peppers, Slayton, Hill and hopefully Beak/Baker)

This isn't the 2017 Giants with an aging roster (which has 41 players no longer in the NFL [I just looked up]), this roster should return about 15 starters, most of whom are 25 and under and under contract.

So, even though we are playing poorly now, I actuallly have some optimism.
LOL....with all due respect...  
Tesla : 11/10/2019 11:14 pm : link
you'e our of your #$%^ing mind here.

Where is the young talent on defense?

Where is the young talent on the OL?
I actually agree - I think we have a bunch of really young talent  
PatersonPlank : 11/10/2019 11:21 pm : link
Lawrence, Hill, Lo Carter, Peppers, Baker, Connelly, Williams
Ballantine, Beal, maybe Love

Hernandez, Jones, Barkley, Engram, Slayton

I believe the issue is coaching.
If you draft Chase Young  
Adam G in Big D : 11/10/2019 11:24 pm : link
Do you go back to a 4-3 defense?

Might as well we don't have any linebackers.

Baker  
AcesUp : 11/10/2019 11:32 pm : link
You know somebody is seeing things through blue colored glasses when they cite him as a foundational piece. He has been bad this year. Really bad. Alternating between kinda 'meh' to a complete an utter liability.

I'm not saying he's a bust. He's a rookie, I get it. Corey Webster was awful early on but turned it around. As it stands now though? He's far from a guy that you can hang your hat on and is just as likely a player that needs to be replaced in season or two as he is a guy that sees a 2nd contract with us.
i appreciate the optimism re: personnel  
japanhead : 11/10/2019 11:33 pm : link
but engram is a third year player, can't stay on the field, and can't block when he is. baker has been terrible out of the gate. carter and hill are very average. ximines has been invisible. beal to this point can't be characterized as anything other than a mistake. i will give gettleman credit for bringing in tate and golden this year, and for drafting slayton and connelly in late rounds, but you're badly overselling the talent on this roster.
Why not use the Raiders  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/10/2019 11:34 pm : link
as a better comparison?

They both started at the exact same time and Gruden was killed for trading his best players for draft picks. Then, had the Antonio Brown drama all summer.

Yet, they are 5-4 and have a real shot at making the playoffs with a roster that man for man isn't all that great.
RE: If you draft Chase Young  
Breeze_94 : 11/10/2019 11:36 pm : link
In comment 14674317 Adam G in Big D said:
Quote:
Do you go back to a 4-3 defense?

Might as well we don't have any linebackers.


Think Young can play in any system, not just a 4-3. But lets not get our hopes up on him just yet...still gotta lose to the Skins
RE: Why not use the Raiders  
Breeze_94 : 11/10/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14674348 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
as a better comparison?

They both started at the exact same time and Gruden was killed for trading his best players for draft picks. Then, had the Antonio Brown drama all summer.

Yet, they are 5-4 and have a real shot at making the playoffs with a roster that man for man isn't all that great.


Oaklands roster isn't great but its also not as bad as you'd think. Carr is playing like a top 10 QB, Jacobs has been a stud at RB. Waller has been a breakout weapon at TE. On offense, personnel-wise, they are very similar to the Giants. Only difference is they have a solid OLine.
The Raiders  
Montana_Giant : 11/11/2019 12:33 am : link
have a Head Coach......
I don't think  
santacruzom : 11/11/2019 12:48 am : link
We can assume we are set at any position. We have all seen our players regress too frequently to just assume any position is locked down for the next X amount of years.
Two big differences  
BH28 : 11/11/2019 1:40 am : link
The niners actually hit on their first round tackle draft picks. If Flowers turned out to be an all pro, this would be a different story.

On the defense, we run a 3-4. We have no LBers. We need at least one game changing edge rusher and one above average MLB.

We are more in the territory of the 2017 niners. Need two more drafts to shore up the line and the defensive front 7. Need to hit on those picks too.
Nothing has changed from some homer fans like the OP  
giantstock : 11/11/2019 2:09 am : link
SUre GMEN cna be good next year if you max out and everything falls amazingly in place.

Fist off the GMen need to sign LW or another DL.

They need THREE Linebackers. We aren't certain of Connelly and Carter is average at best. Ximines is OLB depth.

And GMen need a safety. SO that's FIVE defensive players.

Regarding the Offense - GMEN definitely need a RT and a center. ANd Left Tackle is a huge cocnern.

And a further comedy hour from the OP is that he's "whitewashing" the WR's and a second TE. There is a good chance SS will retire. Tate is more of a 3rd WR. At best in desperate situation you can call him a 2. Say Slayton is a 3. The GMen still need a number 1 WR too.

And their Tight Ends -- if you want a two-TE set-- who do they have that's worth it?

GMEN are in a situation that they need 8-10 players. But supposedly "they have the talent?" To blame it all on the coaching is typical of blind homerism.
I've been following the Giants for decades and I don't know if I can  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 11/11/2019 3:00 am : link
remember a corner as bad as 1st round pick Baker. Eli Apple, now starting for the Saints, had a more promising rookie season.

But things should improve for Baker. I'm sure the Gettleman still plans to eject Jenson and then the opposition won't be throwing at Baker all the time.

How do you deal with the best player in the 2018 draft gaining 29 yards in 27 carries last two games? People who wanted a QB taken in 2018 looking better and better.

Or course we were missing three of our starting offensive linemen, and our starting players wouldn't make the roster as backups on most teams.
RE: Baker  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/11/2019 3:16 am : link
In comment 14674343 AcesUp said:
Quote:
You know somebody is seeing things through blue colored glasses when they cite him as a foundational piece. He has been bad this year. Really bad. Alternating between kinda 'meh' to a complete an utter liability.

I'm not saying he's a bust. He's a rookie, I get it. Corey Webster was awful early on but turned it around. As it stands now though? He's far from a guy that you can hang your hat on and is just as likely a player that needs to be replaced in season or two as he is a guy that sees a 2nd contract with us.


This seems to be a common take that I think is way the fuck wrong. Baker will be good, really good. He's already better than Jenkins IMO. He's drawn more ticky tack calls than I ever recall seeing on one guy, and his coverage is often banana skin tight.

Love his ability to flip his hips and match up.

Wrong coverage mistakes shouldn't be pinned on him yet...
RE: I actually agree - I think we have a bunch of really young talent  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/11/2019 3:19 am : link
In comment 14674309 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Lawrence, Hill, Lo Carter, Peppers, Baker, Connelly, Williams
Ballantine, Beal, maybe Love

Hernandez, Jones, Barkley, Engram, Slayton

I believe the issue is coaching.


Good post PP. Add Zeitler to the list of guys to be counted on, even if he's not "young", he's not old either.
Young is going 1  
Tuckrule : 11/11/2019 5:22 am : link
Too many qbs on the same level. Herbert, tua, burrow, Eason. A smart gm takes a generational pass rusher who’s been compared to a hybrid of Myles Garrett and nick bosa.
Raiders comp  
rocco8112 : 11/11/2019 7:03 am : link
is legit. They were firmly entrenched in the ass end of the league for a long time.

Now they have a new HC and are trending up and competing in year two. The Giants are fucking 2 -8 and frankly should be 1 - 9.

It will be though, Shumur just needs more time.
RE: RE: I actually agree - I think we have a bunch of really young talent  
rocco8112 : 11/11/2019 7:05 am : link
In comment 14674439 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14674309 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


Lawrence, Hill, Lo Carter, Peppers, Baker, Connelly, Williams
Ballantine, Beal, maybe Love

Hernandez, Jones, Barkley, Engram, Slayton

I believe the issue is coaching.



Good post PP. Add Zeitler to the list of guys to be counted on, even if he's not "young", he's not old either.



Yes, and if the team stays the course and gives Shurmur more time to build his vision, maybe two three seasons, this team will be ready to smell seven wins and have a season matter through mid November.
CMick don't take it personal but as you notice  
Blue21 : 11/11/2019 7:11 am : link
no one is optimistic today. Last two years were bad and despite all the changes this year is worse. I'm afraid that somehow no matter how half full the glass appears that they'll spill it.
I think Plank is spot on  
GiantGrit : 11/11/2019 7:42 am : link
I believe the biggest issue here is coaching. Yeah, this is by no means a roster chock full of talent. But, dropping games to Buffalo, Arizona, Detroit and the Jets is totally inexcusable. They were in all of those games and i believe a competent coach wins at least 2 of them.

Switch the coach fast b/c i don't see the young talent developing here which is a huge concern.

I'm so tired of watching Giants teams make coverage mistakes, stupid penalties at inopportune times, missing a simple blitz pickup.

This team always finds ways to lose, and i hate to say it but thats what Shurmur's record indicates. He finds ways to lose.
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