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As the Giants quietly approach Head Coaching candidates...

M.S. : 11/11/2019 8:35 am
...far and away the #1 question that management needs to ask:

Do you see Daniel Jones as the QB you can win with, or do you need to go in another direction this upcoming Draft with Justin Herbert, Tua Tagovailoa, Jake Fromm, Joe Burrow, Jacob Eason or someone else?

IMO, it may all boil down to this:

Do the Giants go with the very best Head Coaching candidate who is given the choice of who should be the starting QB going forward, or do the Giants seriously consider only those Head Coaches willing to stay the course with a still-developing Daniel Jones?
You have a quarterback playing behind a crap OL  
Essex : 11/11/2019 8:41 am : link
yesterday without three of his five starting lineman and without Engram and Shepard. He had an 88 QBR as a rookie, has 15 tds to 8 ints as a rookie. He had a terrific and accurate arm and you want a HF who would abandon him for Tua or Justin Herbert; guys who havenít played a down in the NFL.
Not HF  
Essex : 11/11/2019 8:42 am : link
HC as in head coach.

That sounds about as bad a plan as John Mara could cook up and he has cooked up some real bad ones over the last 7 years
NOPE  
jvm52106 : 11/11/2019 8:42 am : link
Jones is the QB. The right coach will see that for sure. The question to ask is this:

What will you need and what will you do to fix our Oline?

How will you get our defense back to the LT, Banks, Carson, Johnson, Strahan, Tuck, Kiwi, Osi, JPP days!
Any coach who hasn't seen enough from Jones  
arniefez : 11/11/2019 8:43 am : link
to know he can win in the NFL doesn't need to apply. Jones has everything a head coach needs to win in the NFL except enough good teammates and a good head coach.
Any candidate with enough juice to make that switch  
ron mexico : 11/11/2019 8:46 am : link
Wonít work for this organization the way the FO is current structured.

Weíre gonna end up with a guy whoís just happy to get a shot and doesnít really care how dysfunctional they are.
I don't think that's a question that needs answering...  
nzyme : 11/11/2019 8:46 am : link
He's showing everyone on the field. Look at the run game support and OL. If anyone answers with anything other than a big fat "YES" they shouldn't be considered.
This is not a bash Eli comment at all.  
EricJ : 11/11/2019 8:48 am : link
It just helps to put things into perspective when it comes to speaking about Jones.

he has put together more 4 TD games in a short stretch (behind the worst OL in football) than Eli did in... well not since 2015 I think.

So, not that we can expect 6 TDs per game with an improved OL, but you will see continued improvement and likely fewer fumbles.

Mix in better play calling and I think there is a lot to be optimistic about when it comes to Jones
The bigger limiting factor is  
ron mexico : 11/11/2019 8:49 am : link
The Two and a half GMís building the roster.

Will any quality candidate want to work with that?
I think  
lax counsel : 11/11/2019 8:52 am : link
Both a new legitimate front office and head coach should get the right to evaluate everyone without fear of repercussion from ownership. Having a spoken or unspoken mandate to win with a certain player is what caused this entire mess to start with.

That being said, Iím hard pressed to think any legit football talent evaluators wouldnít love jones at this point. I think the better question is how do we not waste all the cap space flexibility on Jones rookie deal. I donít want Gettlemen making those decisions.
If a guy wants the job  
David B. : 11/11/2019 8:53 am : link
He'll say anything. Whether he believes it or not. With the Giants, ANY coach will have to work with what the GM gives him, good or bad. That's the job, and they all know it.
I think its a question you ask  
UConn4523 : 11/11/2019 8:53 am : link
and consider the responses a vital part of the hiring process. But Jones is a gamer, IMO, so tearing that down for a HC "demanding" to do things his way is pretty dangerous.

But Jones can really fit any scheme (he'd work with Kingsbury, for example) so I don't see this being an issue in the grand scheme of things.
I don't care much what the actual answer  
bigbluehoya : 11/11/2019 8:54 am : link
to the question is, but they need to find the right GM/head coach combination and let them do what they want at the QB position.

No more tail wagging dog. No personnel-related interview questions that have a disqualifying answer.

The decision-making process has been lacking, at best, for some time.


I think the next HC needs to have fundamental football knowledge  
Rjanyg : 11/11/2019 9:02 am : link
I see our team now and we cannot run the ball. Look at the goodcteams in this league, they all have a running game. The run game controls the game. Next you need to have great players in the front 7 of your defense. We have some good players but none are great.

Our next head coach needs to know how to manage the game. He needs to have coordinators who can teach.

I am not sure about the whole staff but, Bettcher seems like a good coach but doesnít have enough talent to run his complicated scheme. He needs to simplify it.

Hal Hunter is not getting the line to play as one. They look unorganized and clueless.

Shurmur needs to let Shula call plays justcto mix it up. He has some good play design but the shotgun formation 90% of the time is not working
there is a head coach that already loves Jones  
BillyM : 11/11/2019 9:02 am : link
His name is Bill Belichek. Go out and get him. Give him full control, fire everyone, and let him build a team around Jones for 5 years. At that point he takes a Coughlin like role and hands keys to son.

Do it, now
No questions about Jones should be made. He's the real deal  
Dinger : 11/11/2019 9:09 am : link
and wasting anymore time debating a QB is just that; a waste of time.
The questions need to revolve around OL and development and coaching. They need to be around in game management and defensive schemes and offensive philosophy.
We have a headcoach who would ace questions about a QB. He can't seem to gameplan or 'coach up' his players. He doesn't give us an any advantage at all in ANY aspect of the game.

We need a head coach who can get the right position coaches to game plan, teach, develop and prepare as well as adjust.
Is this a fantasy owner app  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/11/2019 9:14 am : link
you are working off?
I'm sorry, did I  
Bill in UT : 11/11/2019 9:16 am : link
miss the story that the Giant's are approaching potential HC's?
RE: I'm sorry, did I  
M.S. : 11/11/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14674782 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
miss the story that the Giant's are approaching potential HC's?

No need to be sorry. And you didn't miss any story. The question I posed is based upon WHEN the Giants approach new Head Coaching candidates, not that they already have. Although, would you be shocked if they have quietly made a few discreet inquiries?
if we select a new coach they  
mdc1 : 11/11/2019 9:32 am : link
should have say in terms of who they want under the center amongst other things. That is our fucking problem and why we do not win.
RE: if we select a new coach they  
M.S. : 11/11/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14674840 mdc1 said:
Quote:
should have say in terms of who they want under the center amongst other things. That is our fucking problem and why we do not win.

Agreed!
Please stop with the DJ questions  
BillT : 11/11/2019 9:52 am : link
Thatís just absurd.
Our offense has scored enough to win  
Mike in NY : 11/11/2019 9:54 am : link
The problem is our defense has allowed even more
I think ANY HC candidate  
Section331 : 11/11/2019 9:59 am : link
will see inheriting Jones as a positive. With all of the needs this team has, I wouldn't want to hire a HC who insisted on drafting another QB.

I think the far bigger question for potential HC's is how this organization makes decisions.
RE: Please stop with the DJ questions  
M.S. : 11/11/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14674916 BillT said:
Quote:
Thatís just absurd.

It's not really about questioning Daniel Jones. After all, he has done some very nice things with a limited cast, even with all the crazy, scary, fucked-up fumbling.

IMO, there are two questions:

(1) Who is the very best Head Coach we can replace Pat Shurmur with; and,

(2) Do we allow him to have the QB he needs to implement the system he wants to run?

Assuming Pat Shurmur is gone after this season, these questions need to be asked-and-answered BEFORE the 2020 NFL Draft.

If the very best Head Coach is convinced he'll do fine with Daniel Jones, all the better!
RE: RE: Please stop with the DJ questions  
BillT : 11/11/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14674950 M.S. said:
Quote:

IMO, there are two questions:

(1) Who is the very best Head Coach we can replace Pat Shurmur with; and,

(2) Do we allow him to have the QB he needs to implement the system he wants to run?


1) I don't know.

2) No. DJ is the Giants QB. Period. If he doesn't like it then he doesn't come.

New coaches don't get the keys to the kingdom. That's why there is a GM.
RE: RE: RE: Please stop with the DJ questions  
M.S. : 11/11/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14674967 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 14674950 M.S. said:


Quote:



IMO, there are two questions:

(1) Who is the very best Head Coach we can replace Pat Shurmur with; and,

(2) Do we allow him to have the QB he needs to implement the system he wants to run?



1) I don't know.

2) No. DJ is the Giants QB. Period. If he doesn't like it then he doesn't come.

New coaches don't get the keys to the kingdom. That's why there is a GM.

I'm not as dogmatic about Daniel Jones as you are.
few things  
giants#1 : 11/11/2019 10:14 am : link
1. Not sure how any coach can look at what Jones has accomplished to date and not believe he can be at least an above average QB in this league. The fumble issues are by far the biggest concern and also one of the most correctable things (either via better OL or work with Jones). Beyond that he's completing 63% of his passes and has nearly a 2:1 TD:INT ratio as a rookie behind a porous line despite missing at least 2 of his top 4 offensive weapons in every game.

2. In light of one, it would take some massive cojones to come in and try to convince the Giants FO that an unproven college player is a safer long term bet. Maybe if Peyton or Luck were sitting there, but I don't think any of these prospects are quite at the prospect level those 2 were. Maybe Tua is, but he's likely going #1 overall.

3. I know all the excuses, but Rosen was flat out awful last year. In 8 games Jones already has 30% more TD passes than Rosen had all last year. And Rosen was even worse this year before getting benched. And aside from Rosen, I can't remember another instance where a team went QB in the 1st in back-to-back years. Hell, I'd be surprised if the 'Skins do it and Haskins hasn't exactly lit things up (SSS).
RE: RE: RE: RE: Please stop with the DJ questions  
BillT : 11/11/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14674980 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14674967 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 14674950 M.S. said:



I'm not as dogmatic about Daniel Jones as you are.

It's not dogmatic. If a new coach came in, given what DJ has shown this season, and wanted to replace him you'd have to think you're taking to the wrong guy. It wouldn't be e refection on Jones's talent it would be a reflection on the coach and his judgment.
This ownership gave years to both Dave Brown  
Giantz_comeback : 11/11/2019 10:20 am : link
and Phil Simms to get it right. One good result and one bad.

DJ has shown plenty of flashes of high level QB play for a rookie despite some really bad lows.

Its going to be DJ for another few years. They invested a high first in him and they take that very seriously.
Joe Burrow  
rocco8112 : 11/11/2019 10:36 am : link
is the truth
RE: If a guy wants the job  
smshmth8690 : 11/11/2019 1:03 pm : link
In comment 14674715 David B. said:
Quote:
He'll say anything. Whether he believes it or not. With the Giants, ANY coach will have to work with what the GM gives him, good or bad. That's the job, and they all know it.


I think any NFL HC candidate will believe in himself enough to feel he can get the most out of any group of players.
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