Eli Manning is leaving as a free agent/retirement. Whatever you think about Alex Tanney, he's seems to be backup material at best.
QB is the most important position. Even though Daniel Jones play shows a lot of promise, he's one bad play away from injury. Having a strong backup QB is must.
Drafting a QB could be good cap management for the next half decade. Locking in two strong QBs on rookie contracts allows that saved QB money to be spent on veterans.
It seems like teams often overpay for other teams backups. Having a solid backup gives the Giants draft/trade capital down the road.
So what if the Giants had the number 1 pick and thus the "pick of the litter" of what looks like a strong college QB class.
Do you build around Daniel Jones or double down and draft name of your favorite college QB in this years draft class?
He wasn't exactly saying it as a no-brainer, but that the Jets (at the time after the NE debacle) should at least visit it............
If they are in a position to draft a QB, there is logic to trade down with a willing partner to get a haul for that pick. Or to trade Jones for a haul
Drafting a QB is a massive waste of the pick.
Yes, it should be. You don't waste valuable draft capital on a position for a backup. If you really have "the pick of the litter, and #1 overall" you phone up Miami and see if they trade there pick, houston's and pitt's.
Daniel Jones is the starter. We're not drafting another Qb.
I really like Jones's game a lot, but I think we're making a mistake penciling him or anyone else as the "QB for the next ten years".
No it isn’t. The OP is saying to keep Jones AND draft another QB with the 1st rounder.
It’s dumb and this thread sucks.
The Top LT
And at 2-8, Gettleman and his entourage have plenty of free time to focus in on next spring right now...
cray cray?
I just don't know anymore.
My reaction is Gettleman was caught trying to figure out which he wanted more - a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel or a hot dog...
If you dont like Jones and want to replace him thats another story but I think you would need to get more than a 1st rounder for him in return considering how well he has shown so far.
At this point I believe you have to stick with Jones. he has shown enough good that he is definitely worth giving him more time. Any rookie will have similar ramp up time.
To me your scenario is just bad business.
If they get the #1 pick (which I don't think will happen), trade it to the highest bidder. Some team desperate for one of the Tua or Burrow will pay a fortune.
Jones has demonstrated he can be produce at the NFL level through 8 games. And that's very important in terms of his asset value. He's got toughness, poise, and is mobile. So there is a good basket of skills to feel good about. On the other hand, the fumbles, decision making, etc are problematic. But he is a rookie and you hope most of that can be improved.
I still need to see more, but the baseline is positive.
In this class of 2020, I wouldn't take Tua. I'm on the fence with Herbert (having a terrific year, but I can see a case that he could be Brock Osweiler, Part II), I really like Eason just no sure that high in the draft, and Burrow, while very interesting, it's only one year and I think a lot of what you are seeing is the brilliant work of his OC, Joe Brady (who some NFL teams should interview for a HC).
So for me, I just don't know if this QB class has that stud like Luck that is a no-brainer. Right now, I'd probably stick with Jones and go LT, DE, or likely try to trade the hell of the spot.
I really like Jones's game a lot, but I think we're making a mistake penciling him or anyone else as the "QB for the next ten years".
And yet, isn't it th esame mistake assuming Burrow will be as good or better than Jones?
Jones has demonstrated he can be produce at the NFL level through 8 games. And that's very important in terms of his asset value. He's got toughness, poise, and is mobile. So there is a good basket of skills to feel good about. On the other hand, the fumbles, decision making, etc are problematic. But he is a rookie and you hope most of that can be improved.
I still need to see more, but the baseline is positive.
In this class of 2020, I wouldn't take Tua. I'm on the fence with Herbert (having a terrific year, but I can see a case that he could be Brock Osweiler, Part II), I really like Eason just no sure that high in the draft, and Burrow, while very interesting, it's only one year and I think a lot of what you are seeing is the brilliant work of his OC, Joe Brady (who some NFL teams should interview for a HC).
So for me, I just don't know if this QB class has that stud like Luck that is a no-brainer. Right now, I'd probably stick with Jones and go LT, DE, or likely try to trade the hell of the spot.
You missed the part where the OP says to keep Jones and draft a QB.
But how are people already thinking about replacing him?
He just threw 4 TDs and the offense played well.
The defense is the reason we're getting demolished. Rookie QBs who are on pace to throw 24 TDs and have only 13 picks don't grow on trees.
And hypothetically; people are really saying "would we get a 1st?"
What world is this? He would net multiple firsts at this point. He's tied for 10th in the league in TD passes and he didn't even play in two games. He'd probably be hovering in the 2nd-3rd in the league if he played the full season.
I really like Jones's game a lot, but I think we're making a mistake penciling him or anyone else as the "QB for the next ten years".
In this scenario why not just trade the 1st pick and get an additional 1st pus something else (the standard price)? Since you are looking at trading a QB away for something anyway, I'd rather the draft picks
I really like Jones's game a lot, but I think we're making a mistake penciling him or anyone else as the "QB for the next ten years".
They know what Jones is. They have no clue what Burrows is truthfully, hell he wasn't even mentioned two months ago. Two years ago Jake Fromm was up there with Jalen Hurts(who) and Tua...Herbert, Eason - did they all fall of the board?
Except for the fumbling, what is there not to like about Jones? Unless there is a new GM with a different vision, Jones is here to stay.
The Giants have their QB. They need LT(and RT), ER and ILB help immensely.
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The available talent in the draft pool should always be compared to the talent on your roster. So you have to at least look at all of the QBs compared to Jones. Then you have to weigh the draft capital you could get for Jones if you decide on of these QBs could project better. That draft capital could be a nice package to help replenish the team. The question I have is - which teams would be in the market for Jones?
Jones has demonstrated he can be produce at the NFL level through 8 games. And that's very important in terms of his asset value. He's got toughness, poise, and is mobile. So there is a good basket of skills to feel good about. On the other hand, the fumbles, decision making, etc are problematic. But he is a rookie and you hope most of that can be improved.
I still need to see more, but the baseline is positive.
In this class of 2020, I wouldn't take Tua. I'm on the fence with Herbert (having a terrific year, but I can see a case that he could be Brock Osweiler, Part II), I really like Eason just no sure that high in the draft, and Burrow, while very interesting, it's only one year and I think a lot of what you are seeing is the brilliant work of his OC, Joe Brady (who some NFL teams should interview for a HC).
So for me, I just don't know if this QB class has that stud like Luck that is a no-brainer. Right now, I'd probably stick with Jones and go LT, DE, or likely try to trade the hell of the spot.
You missed the part where the OP says to keep Jones and draft a QB.
I get it. I like the thought by the OP, but go in a different direction with keeping both. I'm focusing on the chance to potentially improve at QB, and get some nice draft capital for Jones...
It's all moot because I can say with 100% certainty Jints Central would NEVER consider something unconventional like this. Totally goes against the spirit of the "Giants Way" manual...
If a John Elway type is there you have to at least discuss the option. I think ultimately we'll be better off taking Thomas or Young.
If they are in a position to draft a QB, there is logic to trade down with a willing partner to get a haul for that pick. Or to trade Jones for a haul
Drafting a QB is a massive waste of the pick.
Beat me to it. I was thinking trading down if the price was right. The only reason for the Giants to take a Tua et. al. at No. 1 would be to trade him in round 1 to a team that covets him for their top two picks and a No. 1 or No. 2 the following year, plus one of their starting O-linemen if they have one good enough.
Otherwise, take Chase Young or another impact player.
What has he done that shows he shouldn't be the QB? Fumbles? Ok, but that is correctable.
So are they playing musical QBs?
Congrats, you just made the idea of Pat Shurmur still coaching not seem like the worst thing ever!
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Is the quarterback position just bequeathed to Jones as Eli's heir? Jones doesn't have to worry about competing for his job for the next ten years?
What has he done that shows he shouldn't be the QB? Fumbles? Ok, but that is correctable.
So are they playing musical QBs?
His level of play isn't what I'm talking about. I'll ask again: is the position simply bequeathed to Jones for the next decade?
Still have to prepare a draft board and still have to tier the players in some form or fashion.
And QBs better be assessed as part of getting ready for the 2020 Draft so this team can figure out how to get the most value out if its next #1 pick...
Jones has demonstrated he can be produce at the NFL level through 8 games. And that's very important in terms of his asset value. He's got toughness, poise, and is mobile. So there is a good basket of skills to feel good about. On the other hand, the fumbles, decision making, etc are problematic. But he is a rookie and you hope most of that can be improved.
I still need to see more, but the baseline is positive.
In this class of 2020, I wouldn't take Tua. I'm on the fence with Herbert (having a terrific year, but I can see a case that he could be Brock Osweiler, Part II), I really like Eason just no sure that high in the draft, and Burrow, while very interesting, it's only one year and I think a lot of what you are seeing is the brilliant work of his OC, Joe Brady (who some NFL teams should interview for a HC).
So for me, I just don't know if this QB class has that stud like Luck that is a no-brainer. Right now, I'd probably stick with Jones and go LT, DE, or likely try to trade the hell of the spot.
**THIS**
I was all set to write a response, but bw seems to have written exactly what I was thinking.
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In comment 14675312 Go Terps said:
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Is the quarterback position just bequeathed to Jones as Eli's heir? Jones doesn't have to worry about competing for his job for the next ten years?
What has he done that shows he shouldn't be the QB? Fumbles? Ok, but that is correctable.
So are they playing musical QBs?
His level of play isn't what I'm talking about. I'll ask again: is the position simply bequeathed to Jones for the next decade?
The easy answer is no, not if he sucks or is even marginal.
What is your point? Normally when you make a premise like this, there is a point. Small sample size, but as of right now, Jones looks to be a fine choice.
If Jones survives the first 3 or 4 years, meaning he is very good, then the chances are the Giants won't draft high enough to get another upper echelon QB.
Why? Because he was the BPA
Now if there is no clear BPA, then you factor in need. But if you think Burrow is going to be a better QB than Jones of course you take him. It’s not even a question
Jones is better than Walsh was. If Jones gets his fumbling under control by the end of the season, he's going to be worth a lot in trade. But if you aren't really, REALLY sure that you want Jones gone, he's already a better piece to build around than a new rookie draftee at QB. QBs have a very high bust rate. Jones doesn't look like a bust, even with the fumbles.
Jones is better than Walsh was. If Jones gets his fumbling under control by the end of the season, he's going to be worth a lot in trade. But if you aren't really, REALLY sure that you want Jones gone, he's already a better piece to build around than a new rookie draftee at QB. QBs have a very high bust rate. Jones doesn't look like a bust, even with the fumbles.
How does he get the fumbling under control with no protection and no running game? He will continue to get hit and he has trouble hanging on to the ball. He always has and hasn't fixed it yet. This isn't the first year he has played the position.
81_Great_Dane : 12:53 pm : link : reply
a year after taking Steve Walsh. But Walsh wasn't very good. Dallas just ripped off the band-aid.
The Cowboys took Walsh AFTER they had selected Aikman.
And they took Walsh in the supplemental Draft that ended up becoming the #1 overall pick a year later! But the rest of the talent on the Dallas team overcame that poor move
If I'm the GM of a team I am constantly trying to replace everyone on the roster. If the incumbents fight off the newcomers and keep their jobs, great. But no one is on scholarship.
I'm not saying to just take Burrow unvetted. Scout him, evaluate him properly - and if he grades out at or above Jones and no other prospect makes better sense, do it.
Gettleman merits zero confidence now as it is.
With that third draft choice the Cowboys selected Erik Williams, and the other two picks were traded to the New England Patriots as a package to move up to the number one overall draft choice to select Russell Maryland.
So Johnson was able to pivot and parlay Walsh in a trade that helped improve Dallas dramatically.
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even if they decide Herbert is the heir apparent and trade Jones, how confident would you be in the reversal? A tough, tough spot. Doesn't look good at all for DG et al, not to mention the financial impact to the cap and right on down the line.
Gettleman merits zero confidence now as it is.
Then there's a greater decision due from the top, which would go against the grain for sure. I doubt they're anywhere near that point yet internally.
Any college qb comes with a significant risk on at least two factors:
1)Speed of the game is significantly different from college to the pros. There is no test for the upper bounds of someone's decision speed under stress...ahead of the draft. None
2) Complexity of calls, offenses and defenses produces a significant expansion of variables to process in that condensed time.
Both are critical factors in determining NFL QB success.
So even Lawrence comes with a 20-30% risk factor.
The positions they need have enough failure rate as it is. Why double down on risk of a final product when Jones is still a work in progress. Then your delta on the position is a 50% spread of outcomes. What decision maker does that on purpose?
yeah yeah...if you see competition that makes the team better you do it. Great idea. We all agree.
Except the decision matrix leaves you unable to tell if you made the position better for 2 years. meanwhile you made a vital slot decision with a 30% delta on top of the still unknown ceiling to floor of Jones
BBGOTFO
Burrow just rose to prominence in his senior year and plays in an offense where he looks to the coaches before every play for adjustments. Mariota comes to mind. Beware.
We simply have to get better at finding talent and gain some traction on our roster. Mathematically your whole team can't be on rookie deals. If we're truly in another draft class tailspin with Gettleman we haven't really started over yet.
Not really, Rosen showed nothing his rookie year. DJ, on the other hand, has shown a lot
On Lawrence, he's regressed some this year. Still a tremendous physical talent, but his decision making has looked ugly at times.
I don't know what's going to come of Burrow, but he's not too far behind Lawrence in overall QB attributes. Granted, it's been one year - a brilliant year in the SEC - but I see a player with better overall skills, at this point, than DJones.
If I'm the GM of a team I am constantly trying to replace everyone on the roster. If the incumbents fight off the newcomers and keep their jobs, great. But no one is on scholarship.
I'm not saying to just take Burrow unvetted. Scout him, evaluate him properly - and if he grades out at or above Jones and no other prospect makes better sense, do it.
You are correct, always look to improve at every position. However, I do think QB is a position that is treated a little different. You miss at QB(1st round draft choice), you are screwed. Every other position you can get a replacement fairly quickly. QBs, not so much because if you are not picking in at least the top 10, you are not likely to get a top flight QB.
Now as to taking Burrow(or whomever) this year, how do you really know what you have in Jones at this point and you certainly have no real true sense of what Burrows is - limited starting and tape. Like I said 3(?) years ago, Fromm was top of the heap. Last year, Lawrence was a god and the no doubt #1 pick if eligible. This year people say he has regressed. IDK.
Sy'56 said the two hardest positions to scout are QB and CB. So taking any college player is a gamble, taking a QB is the ultimate gamble. And I think it was Gil Brandt that said you should take a QB in every draft. I suppose you never know when you find Tom Brady.
So it goes back, and I totally agree, that if you can improve at any position you do it if an upgrade is available at your draft slot. But if I'm at #2 this year, Burrows and Young or the LT are there, I'm likely taking Young or the LT.(I'm projecting those are the top 3 players available for arguments sake).
Jones has demonstrated he can be produce at the NFL level through 8 games. And that's very important in terms of his asset value. He's got toughness, poise, and is mobile. So there is a good basket of skills to feel good about. On the other hand, the fumbles, decision making, etc are problematic. But he is a rookie and you hope most of that can be improved.
I still need to see more, but the baseline is positive.
In this class of 2020, I wouldn't take Tua. I'm on the fence with Herbert (having a terrific year, but I can see a case that he could be Brock Osweiler, Part II), I really like Eason just no sure that high in the draft, and Burrow, while very interesting, it's only one year and I think a lot of what you are seeing is the brilliant work of his OC, Joe Brady (who some NFL teams should interview for a HC).
So for me, I just don't know if this QB class has that stud like Luck that is a no-brainer. Right now, I'd probably stick with Jones and go LT, DE, or likely try to trade the hell of the spot.