Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Gettleman got one thing right it appears -

BlueLou'sBack : 11/11/2019 11:55 am
moving on from OBJ before this year. Beckham is having a mediocre season far below his pay grade. In 9 or 10 games (not sure which) he has 79 targets, 44 receptions, a poor 57% catch rate, 632 yards for a nice 14.4 YPC, but a miserly single touchdown, the most telling stat of all IMO.

The return of Peppers, Lawrence and Ximines, while still unknown (as is OBJ's future) appears to be AT LEAST fair, if not excellent for the Giants.

Given the 2 teams' records, the worst you can call the trade at this point is a lose/lose.
One more thing to add...  
morrison40 : 11/11/2019 12:01 pm : link
Darius Slayton!
I caught a little bit of the Browns game  
an_idol_mind : 11/11/2019 12:02 pm : link
while at a restaurant this weekend. I saw Beckham with a step on the DB on a deep pass that got overthrown to him, and I noticed him with a drop that shouldn't have happened. However, he also drew two pass interference penalties in the end zone.

I'm not really sure how much of the issue is Beckham losing a step and how much is that the Browns are a bad team.
RE: One more thing to add...  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/11/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14675303 morrison40 said:
Quote:
Darius Slayton!


Yes, that makes at least 2 things DG got right.
Agree  
Coopcomic : 11/11/2019 12:03 pm : link
And you also have to consider the timing. It's true DG gets thumped for re-signing him, dead money, etc. However, people leave out what was going on with AB - and how little returns there were on headcase star WRs. It was heading towards that kind of situation.
I'm sure he'd look  
phil in arizona : 11/11/2019 12:03 pm : link
pretty close to classic OBJ on a competent team.
RE: RE: One more thing to add...  
giants#1 : 11/11/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14675308 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14675303 morrison40 said:


Quote:


Darius Slayton!



Yes, that makes at least 2 things DG got right.


And Jones. So 3 for 30(?)...
RE: I'm sure he'd look  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/11/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14675311 phil in arizona said:
Quote:
pretty close to classic OBJ on a competent team.


How can you know? Among whispered or even unmentioned rumors there is some talk that OBJ and Mayfield "aren't on the same page."

Beckham didn't exactly kill it in OTAs and all the off season work he might have with his new QB and team, so maybe that's a factor that would play anywhere he went?
I think Baker  
crackerjack465 : 11/11/2019 12:14 pm : link
is just bad.

OBJ is still extremely quick they just don't know what they're doing in the passing game.
Beckham's playing  
bc4life : 11/11/2019 12:14 pm : link
has little to do with him and more to do with Cleveland's struggles. Common sense told yuo his numbers would go down because there is alreday a high profile # 1 receiver on the team,.
I really would have liked to see Beckham  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/11/2019 12:17 pm : link
catching passes from Jones
i still think he lost a half step  
BillyM : 11/11/2019 12:17 pm : link
I'm not saying he isn't talented, nor am I saying he's over the hill. He's 27 years old.

To that, i remember him the first two years. It was like someone was shot out of a cannon.

While still explosive, I do think those leg injuries took a little dynamite out of his explosiveness. Nothing major, but enough to bring him a bit down to earth.

He was literally untouchable his first few years. Not seeing that anymore.
Right to trade, but fucking stupid to resign and then trade.  
penkap75 : 11/11/2019 12:20 pm : link
Love or hate Francesa, he seems to explain DG cluelessness pretty well.
Agreed  
rocco8112 : 11/11/2019 12:20 pm : link
I am happy Gettlemen, for his failures so far, had the stones to get rid of Beckham.
RE: Right to trade, but fucking stupid to resign and then trade.  
djm : 11/11/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14675366 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Love or hate Francesa, he seems to explain DG cluelessness pretty well.


Canít have it both ways. The second DG arrived Beckham was entering the last year of his CY AND he was injured. His value at that moment could not have been better than it was when he was re-signed and healthy. I would bet his value was lower, much lower.

If the giants donít re-sign Beckham they arenít trading him for the value they received one year ago.

In retrospect, the time to trade Beckham was post 2015 or 2016 but we had a special player on our hands and franchise rarely ever trade players like that. We also were coming off a playoff season in 2016 and only the select few here just knew this ship was going to sink fast and swiftly by 2017... insert eye roll.
Gettleman Told By Mara to Re-Sign OBJ?  
CJ in AZ : 11/11/2019 12:31 pm : link
If so, which seems likely to me, Gettleman is being wrongly blamed.
RE: One more thing to add...  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/11/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14675303 morrison40 said:
Quote:
Darius Slayton!

Golden and Tate who has more TDs in one game! How do we have only 2 wins?
It was stupid to resign him.  
Affirmation : 11/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
Whatever your opinion is on the trade, resigning him was a stupid decision from a clueless General Manager. What we got for him wasn't enough either considering how desperate the Browns were to get him and his status as a franchise player.

I'm not saying we shouldn't of traded him but we certainly shouldn't of done it after resigning him to a mega deal. I also think we should of drafted D.K. Metcalf with that second round pick we used to trade up. That way we have a player who could of covered the absence of OBJ and created an almost elite wide receiver double with Darius Slayton.
So let me get this straight  
Touchdown maker : 11/11/2019 12:44 pm : link
The giants were better off letting Beckham walk then resigning him and getting value for him?

Iím new to this board and may have walk away. A lottttttta stupid around here.
By the time we are a contender  
Payasdaddy : 11/11/2019 12:48 pm : link
Odell on downward slop. He peaked early, slightly less explosive now
Probably can keep same athleticism next 2-3 yrs
But since it looks like even 2020 it will be hard for us to be middle of the road, timing actually worked out well.
Plus not the personality u need on this team right now
We have like 8 holes to fill
2-3 good olinemen
1 more wr, ( maybe two if ss hangs it up. Hope he is ok and can give it one more shot)
1 more DL
2-3 lbs
FS. And even 1 more cb
We arenít filling that in one yr. if we get 2 OL,wr, 2 lb and FS filled in 2020 should get us on upswing. Still a big ask
even if DG  
Enzo : 11/11/2019 12:50 pm : link
handled all things Odell correctly (BTW he didn't), today is the day you're looking to heap some praise on DG? The lengths to which people will look to credit this front office (and the previous front office when they were still employed) are ridiculous...
RE: RE: Right to trade, but fucking stupid to resign and then trade.  
ron mexico : 11/11/2019 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14675385 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14675366 penkap75 said:


Quote:


Love or hate Francesa, he seems to explain DG cluelessness pretty well.



Canít have it both ways. The second DG arrived Beckham was entering the last year of his CY AND he was injured. His value at that moment could not have been better than it was when he was re-signed and healthy. I would bet his value was lower, much lower.

If the giants donít re-sign Beckham they arenít trading him for the value they received one year ago.



bullshit

there were trade rumors that offseason. If he was healthy enough to garner the highest WR contract in the league, he was health enough to fetch a very nice return via trade.

They could have also let him play on his existing contract and traded him mid season with the franchise tag as a back stop.

here is an article on trade rumors from 2018
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I'm sure he'd look  
phil in arizona : 11/11/2019 1:03 pm : link
In comment 14675338 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14675311 phil in arizona said:


Quote:


pretty close to classic OBJ on a competent team.



How can you know? Among whispered or even unmentioned rumors there is some talk that OBJ and Mayfield "aren't on the same page."

Beckham didn't exactly kill it in OTAs and all the off season work he might have with his new QB and team, so maybe that's a factor that would play anywhere he went?


I think it's far more likely that Freddie Kitchens has no idea what he is doing than OBJ is shot as a player.
Just to be clear...  
bw in dc : 11/11/2019 1:04 pm : link
Gettleman got it "right" after he got it massively wrong re-signing OBJ to that contract...
I agree that the trade looks like a lose/lose in some ways.  
81_Great_Dane : 11/11/2019 1:07 pm : link
Vernon and Beckham haven't lived up to their reputations in Cleveland. Zeitler hasn't lived up to his in New York. Both teams are worse than last year. I don't think Zeitler was a bad pickup, but it hasn't worked out for the Giants.
beckham lacks discipline  
mdc1 : 11/11/2019 1:11 pm : link
and that is his biggest weakness, it pervades his entire person.
Seems to me Gettleman  
Ryan in Albany : 11/11/2019 1:15 pm : link
got Ryan Connelly right too.

What a loss that was.
Gettleman is a decent drafter  
penkap75 : 11/11/2019 1:36 pm : link
I question his FA moves though.
RE: I agree that the trade looks like a lose/lose in some ways.  
ron mexico : 11/11/2019 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14675518 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
Vernon and Beckham haven't lived up to their reputations in Cleveland. Zeitler hasn't lived up to his in New York. Both teams are worse than last year. I don't think Zeitler was a bad pickup, but it hasn't worked out for the Giants.


maybe its not so much that the trade was lose/lose

but instead that the franchises involved are both losers
Gettleman has  
Giantophile : 11/11/2019 4:29 pm : link
done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.
RE: Gettleman has  
bw in dc : 11/11/2019 4:42 pm : link
In comment 14676026 Giantophile said:
Quote:
done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.


Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.
I still don't like  
k-five : 11/11/2019 6:49 pm : link
The trade of Odell Beckham. His abilities kept us competitive in many games and he had a direct impact on the few wins we did have during his tenure.

This team has ZERO CHARACTER and no leaders. I didn't like many of OBJ's antics but when you get a person you get the total package. But hey we have culture, a losing culture but culture nonetheless.
Gettleman  
Marty866b : 11/11/2019 7:02 pm : link
5-11, and worse this year. Yeah, let's keep talking about how great his two drafts have been and his wonderful trades.
Time to send Dave down to a senior facility in Florida.
I don't see any drop off in OBJs  
Gmen703 : 11/11/2019 11:48 pm : link
Talent. Like the poster above said, on a competent team, he turns into classic Beckham.

If you say DG got it right to trade him for being undisciplined...Ok. But I'd rather have him in blue. Not sold on the return we did get. Lawrence...ok. Peppers...meh. Dead money... Double meh.
RE: RE: Gettleman has  
Gmen703 : 11/11/2019 11:50 pm : link
In comment 14676048 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14676026 Giantophile said:


Quote:


done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.



Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.


And 2 SB rings...
RE: RE: RE: Gettleman has  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/12/2019 1:08 am : link
In comment 14676524 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
In comment 14676048 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14676026 Giantophile said:


Quote:


done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.



Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.



And 2 SB rings...



Ahem, wasn't Gettleman a Giant in both 2007 and 2011??? As Director of Pro Player Personnel for the Giants, DG also has 2 SB rings. On top of that, DG's winning % and every other "stat" he compiled as GM of the Panthers far exceeds Reese's compiled record with the Giants.

But every other putz like you thinks they can do DGs job better than he can. It's pretty amusing really how clueless most of BBI is about Gettleman's track record in the NFL.

I am beginning to question our coaching staff, so Gets may have whiffed on Shurmer, but still strongly believe the team is very, very much headed in the right direction in terms of overall personnel and youth among the players, with key weaknesses at ILB, FS, OL and now with SS's future in question WR.

But the stupid vitriol leveled against him, or the expectations that this team could win this year once they turned the reins over to Jones, is honestly laughable IMO.

BlueLou- let me try and make a real pro Gettleman argument  
cosmicj : 11/12/2019 1:42 am : link
1) He misevaluated the 2018 teams potential, but was new to the job in a franchise in disarray and also struggling with what turned out to be cancer. This is a very serious illness - letís underscore this. If Gettleman is in remission, this situation and this 2018 off-season isnít reflective of his capabilities in the future. Note that I am not necessarily defending the Saquon pick and certainly not defending the Solder and other FA signings. But again, this was a unique and very difficult situation for a new GM.

2) The Eli situation was an albatross. We donít know DGís real opinion of what Eli was capable of in 2018, because he was dealing with a new boss (Mara) who had just fired his head coach for benching Eli. This is a toxic work situation. Nevertheless he scouted the 2018 QB class and correctly didnít like what he saw. Gettleman opted to survive and we are now exiting this situation. Not predictive of the future.

3) Shurmur: what Iím seeing pointed to is that this was a Mara decision. Mara needs to get more interested in race horses or something because I canít see any argument that he is benefiting the team on the field.

4) 2019 draft included an inspired first two picks. Iíll get to the Baker selection in a second.

5) The Odell trade looks pretty good as of right now. Iíd argue that the Giants got value for eating his signing bonus but that can be looked at both ways.

In short, Gettleman was dealing with a catastrophic 2018 situation in ill health and he made a number of mistakes. Like with Richardson in Carolina, he is again dealing with an unqualified, meddlesome owner.

Assuming 2018 is not representative of what Gettleman can do, the things that bother me are all related to 2019:

1) The scouting of DeAndre Baker. We need to see this evolve but I question it.
2) I donít understand the decisionmaking around Zeitler, Jamon Brown and the RT position. Signing Remmers was understandable as a stopgap but less so when you enter the 2019 campaign knowing you had a void at RT.
3) Generally, I donít understand the talent acquisition effort around OT. Where is the depth?
4) Is Bethea really the best you could do at FS? Really??!!
5) Finally, I am convinced that Shurmur is rushing injured players back in the field to save his job. Itís the job of an NFL GM to make sure that long-term club interests are served ahead of short-term thinking, I want to see DG intervene in this situation and make sure that Saquon, Gallman, Engram and Shepherd arenít reinserted into the game until they are actually reasonably healthy.

Gettleman really needs to improve his work, even with my defense. But the decisionmaking in 2019 is better than in 2018, and you can argue that the situation Gettleman faced in 2018 was simply too difficult and doesnít represent what he is capable of.
Great deal  
Jimmy Googs : 11/12/2019 7:19 am : link
lose / lose...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gettleman has  
Gmen703 : 11/12/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14676584 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14676524 Gmen703 said:


Quote:


In comment 14676048 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14676026 Giantophile said:


Quote:


done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.



Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.



And 2 SB rings...




Ahem, wasn't Gettleman a Giant in both 2007 and 2011??? As Director of Pro Player Personnel for the Giants, DG also has 2 SB rings. On top of that, DG's winning % and every other "stat" he compiled as GM of the Panthers far exceeds Reese's compiled record with the Giants.

But every other putz like you thinks they can do DGs job better than he can. It's pretty amusing really how clueless most of BBI is about Gettleman's track record in the NFL.

I am beginning to question our coaching staff, so Gets may have whiffed on Shurmer, but still strongly believe the team is very, very much headed in the right direction in terms of overall personnel and youth among the players, with key weaknesses at ILB, FS, OL and now with SS's future in question WR.

But the stupid vitriol leveled against him, or the expectations that this team could win this year once they turned the reins over to Jones, is honestly laughable IMO.


Look dipshit, it's easy to be obtuse, but the fact is he wasn't the GM. You know, the person who gets the blame when things go south (as he/she should). I was stating the obvious, pull your panties out your ass.
OK 703, you asked for this;  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/12/2019 10:24 am : link
Quote:
Look dipshit, it's easy to be obtuse, but the fact is he wasn't the GM. You know, the person who gets the blame when things go south (as he/she should). I was stating the obvious, pull your panties out your ass.


For those relatively new to BBI, let me tell you this is a VERY typical response by a poster whose previous stupid, foolish, infactual post get "called out", however mildly you call out their stupidity.

To recap: His post suggested that Jerry Reese's 2 SB rings somehow made Reese superior to Gettleman, and I responded by noting that DG has the same two rings with the Giants, as Director of Pro Player Personnel, a pretty high up position in the FO. I also noted DG's excellent record as GM of the Panthers.

The above is a pretty mild and 100% FACTUAL response to 703's original post.

His response - well you can read it above - contains multiple personal insults, but of course doesn't even acknowledge, let alone address or answer, the criticism I leveled at HIS POST. He doesn't even acknowledge DG's record with the Panthers... Why doesn't he? Clearly he has no rational response. He's all emotion and vitriol like a two year old.

This is BBI 101: the dumb child who can't admit his own mistake and back off of it, so he attacks.

For the newer guys here, try not to get personal firing back, or rankled at the puerile behavior; it's not worth the effort.

Well I did call him a putz...  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/12/2019 10:26 am : link
So I wasn't all THAT mild as I called his post out.
RE: Well I did call him a putz...  
Gmen703 : 11/12/2019 11:03 am : link
In comment 14676972 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
So I wasn't all THAT mild as I called his post out.


Well, I'm glad you were able to admit this. All is well. :)
RE: RE: Well I did call him a putz...  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/12/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14677085 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
In comment 14676972 BlueLou'sBack said:


Quote:


So I wasn't all THAT mild as I called his post out.



Well, I'm glad you were able to admit this. All is well. :)


Thanks 703, all the best going forward! I was out of line...
Back to the Corner