moving on from OBJ before this year. Beckham is having a mediocre season far below his pay grade. In 9 or 10 games (not sure which) he has 79 targets, 44 receptions, a poor 57% catch rate, 632 yards for a nice 14.4 YPC, but a miserly single touchdown, the most telling stat of all IMO.
The return of Peppers, Lawrence and Ximines, while still unknown (as is OBJ's future) appears to be AT LEAST fair, if not excellent for the Giants.
Given the 2 teams' records, the worst you can call the trade at this point is a lose/lose.
I'm not really sure how much of the issue is Beckham losing a step and how much is that the Browns are a bad team.
Yes, that makes at least 2 things DG got right.
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Darius Slayton!
Yes, that makes at least 2 things DG got right.
And Jones. So 3 for 30(?)...
How can you know? Among whispered or even unmentioned rumors there is some talk that OBJ and Mayfield "aren't on the same page."
Beckham didn't exactly kill it in OTAs and all the off season work he might have with his new QB and team, so maybe that's a factor that would play anywhere he went?
OBJ is still extremely quick they just don't know what they're doing in the passing game.
To that, i remember him the first two years. It was like someone was shot out of a cannon.
While still explosive, I do think those leg injuries took a little dynamite out of his explosiveness. Nothing major, but enough to bring him a bit down to earth.
He was literally untouchable his first few years. Not seeing that anymore.
Can’t have it both ways. The second DG arrived Beckham was entering the last year of his CY AND he was injured. His value at that moment could not have been better than it was when he was re-signed and healthy. I would bet his value was lower, much lower.
If the giants don’t re-sign Beckham they aren’t trading him for the value they received one year ago.
In retrospect, the time to trade Beckham was post 2015 or 2016 but we had a special player on our hands and franchise rarely ever trade players like that. We also were coming off a playoff season in 2016 and only the select few here just knew this ship was going to sink fast and swiftly by 2017... insert eye roll.
Golden and Tate who has more TDs in one game! How do we have only 2 wins?
I'm not saying we shouldn't of traded him but we certainly shouldn't of done it after resigning him to a mega deal. I also think we should of drafted D.K. Metcalf with that second round pick we used to trade up. That way we have a player who could of covered the absence of OBJ and created an almost elite wide receiver double with Darius Slayton.
I’m new to this board and may have walk away. A lottttttta stupid around here.
Probably can keep same athleticism next 2-3 yrs
But since it looks like even 2020 it will be hard for us to be middle of the road, timing actually worked out well.
Plus not the personality u need on this team right now
We have like 8 holes to fill
2-3 good olinemen
1 more wr, ( maybe two if ss hangs it up. Hope he is ok and can give it one more shot)
1 more DL
2-3 lbs
FS. And even 1 more cb
We aren’t filling that in one yr. if we get 2 OL,wr, 2 lb and FS filled in 2020 should get us on upswing. Still a big ask
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Love or hate Francesa, he seems to explain DG cluelessness pretty well.
Can’t have it both ways. The second DG arrived Beckham was entering the last year of his CY AND he was injured. His value at that moment could not have been better than it was when he was re-signed and healthy. I would bet his value was lower, much lower.
If the giants don’t re-sign Beckham they aren’t trading him for the value they received one year ago.
bullshit
there were trade rumors that offseason. If he was healthy enough to garner the highest WR contract in the league, he was health enough to fetch a very nice return via trade.
They could have also let him play on his existing contract and traded him mid season with the franchise tag as a back stop.
here is an article on trade rumors from 2018
Link - ( New Window )
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pretty close to classic OBJ on a competent team.
How can you know? Among whispered or even unmentioned rumors there is some talk that OBJ and Mayfield "aren't on the same page."
Beckham didn't exactly kill it in OTAs and all the off season work he might have with his new QB and team, so maybe that's a factor that would play anywhere he went?
I think it's far more likely that Freddie Kitchens has no idea what he is doing than OBJ is shot as a player.
What a loss that was.
maybe its not so much that the trade was lose/lose
but instead that the franchises involved are both losers
Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.
This team has ZERO CHARACTER and no leaders. I didn't like many of OBJ's antics but when you get a person you get the total package. But hey we have culture, a losing culture but culture nonetheless.
Time to send Dave down to a senior facility in Florida.
If you say DG got it right to trade him for being undisciplined...Ok. But I'd rather have him in blue. Not sold on the return we did get. Lawrence...ok. Peppers...meh. Dead money... Double meh.
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done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.
Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.
And 2 SB rings...
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In comment 14676026 Giantophile said:
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done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.
Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.
And 2 SB rings...
Ahem, wasn't Gettleman a Giant in both 2007 and 2011??? As Director of Pro Player Personnel for the Giants, DG also has 2 SB rings. On top of that, DG's winning % and every other "stat" he compiled as GM of the Panthers far exceeds Reese's compiled record with the Giants.
But every other putz like you thinks they can do DGs job better than he can. It's pretty amusing really how clueless most of BBI is about Gettleman's track record in the NFL.
I am beginning to question our coaching staff, so Gets may have whiffed on Shurmer, but still strongly believe the team is very, very much headed in the right direction in terms of overall personnel and youth among the players, with key weaknesses at ILB, FS, OL and now with SS's future in question WR.
But the stupid vitriol leveled against him, or the expectations that this team could win this year once they turned the reins over to Jones, is honestly laughable IMO.
2) The Eli situation was an albatross. We don’t know DG’s real opinion of what Eli was capable of in 2018, because he was dealing with a new boss (Mara) who had just fired his head coach for benching Eli. This is a toxic work situation. Nevertheless he scouted the 2018 QB class and correctly didn’t like what he saw. Gettleman opted to survive and we are now exiting this situation. Not predictive of the future.
3) Shurmur: what I’m seeing pointed to is that this was a Mara decision. Mara needs to get more interested in race horses or something because I can’t see any argument that he is benefiting the team on the field.
4) 2019 draft included an inspired first two picks. I’ll get to the Baker selection in a second.
5) The Odell trade looks pretty good as of right now. I’d argue that the Giants got value for eating his signing bonus but that can be looked at both ways.
In short, Gettleman was dealing with a catastrophic 2018 situation in ill health and he made a number of mistakes. Like with Richardson in Carolina, he is again dealing with an unqualified, meddlesome owner.
Assuming 2018 is not representative of what Gettleman can do, the things that bother me are all related to 2019:
1) The scouting of DeAndre Baker. We need to see this evolve but I question it.
2) I don’t understand the decisionmaking around Zeitler, Jamon Brown and the RT position. Signing Remmers was understandable as a stopgap but less so when you enter the 2019 campaign knowing you had a void at RT.
3) Generally, I don’t understand the talent acquisition effort around OT. Where is the depth?
4) Is Bethea really the best you could do at FS? Really??!!
5) Finally, I am convinced that Shurmur is rushing injured players back in the field to save his job. It’s the job of an NFL GM to make sure that long-term club interests are served ahead of short-term thinking, I want to see DG intervene in this situation and make sure that Saquon, Gallman, Engram and Shepherd aren’t reinserted into the game until they are actually reasonably healthy.
Gettleman really needs to improve his work, even with my defense. But the decisionmaking in 2019 is better than in 2018, and you can argue that the situation Gettleman faced in 2018 was simply too difficult and doesn’t represent what he is capable of.
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In comment 14676048 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14676026 Giantophile said:
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done plenty right. Not enough, sure but he got absolutely KILLED for the Odell trade and Jones pick -- a few short months later those moves are lauded by all. Keep that in mind when assessing things, that's all.
Until we bear fruit - wins - from all of these "right" moves the best we can say, IMV, is the only difference between DG and Reese is age, skin color, accent, and weight.
And 2 SB rings...
Ahem, wasn't Gettleman a Giant in both 2007 and 2011??? As Director of Pro Player Personnel for the Giants, DG also has 2 SB rings. On top of that, DG's winning % and every other "stat" he compiled as GM of the Panthers far exceeds Reese's compiled record with the Giants.
But every other putz like you thinks they can do DGs job better than he can. It's pretty amusing really how clueless most of BBI is about Gettleman's track record in the NFL.
I am beginning to question our coaching staff, so Gets may have whiffed on Shurmer, but still strongly believe the team is very, very much headed in the right direction in terms of overall personnel and youth among the players, with key weaknesses at ILB, FS, OL and now with SS's future in question WR.
But the stupid vitriol leveled against him, or the expectations that this team could win this year once they turned the reins over to Jones, is honestly laughable IMO.
Look dipshit, it's easy to be obtuse, but the fact is he wasn't the GM. You know, the person who gets the blame when things go south (as he/she should). I was stating the obvious, pull your panties out your ass.
For those relatively new to BBI, let me tell you this is a VERY typical response by a poster whose previous stupid, foolish, infactual post get "called out", however mildly you call out their stupidity.
To recap: His post suggested that Jerry Reese's 2 SB rings somehow made Reese superior to Gettleman, and I responded by noting that DG has the same two rings with the Giants, as Director of Pro Player Personnel, a pretty high up position in the FO. I also noted DG's excellent record as GM of the Panthers.
The above is a pretty mild and 100% FACTUAL response to 703's original post.
His response - well you can read it above - contains multiple personal insults, but of course doesn't even acknowledge, let alone address or answer, the criticism I leveled at HIS POST. He doesn't even acknowledge DG's record with the Panthers... Why doesn't he? Clearly he has no rational response. He's all emotion and vitriol like a two year old.
This is BBI 101: the dumb child who can't admit his own mistake and back off of it, so he attacks.
For the newer guys here, try not to get personal firing back, or rankled at the puerile behavior; it's not worth the effort.
Well, I'm glad you were able to admit this. All is well. :)
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So I wasn't all THAT mild as I called his post out.
Well, I'm glad you were able to admit this. All is well. :)
Thanks 703, all the best going forward! I was out of line...