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NFT: Knicks News: Woj: David Fizdale on his way out?

Anakim : 11/11/2019 12:24 pm
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Link - ( New Window )
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAH  
Anakim : 11/11/2019 12:25 pm : link
"Mills is selling owner James Dolan on a roster constructed to be highly competitive in the Eastern Conference, leaving Fizdale vulnerable to an ouster only weeks into the second season of a four-year contract that league sources say is worth $22 million."


Are you fucking serious? This fucking team? This poorly-constructed mishmash of shit as a contender? Holy shit. I really hope we don't do something stupid and start buying and believing we have a chance to win...
This team shouldn't  
Josh in the City : 11/11/2019 12:27 pm : link
be competing for a championship. But they're more talented than their 2-8 record. Fizdale absolutely should be coaching for his job right now.
I'm legit scared we may trade a top-3 pick for like Bradley Beal  
Anakim : 11/11/2019 12:29 pm : link
or some shit. That's some Knick shit.
Mills stabbing someone else in the back?  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 12:29 pm : link
His body count is higher than Arya Stark's at this point.
It's beginning to sound like  
Strahan91 : 11/11/2019 12:30 pm : link
they'll clean house. Mills included this time.
If mills is allowed to hire a new coach i am done  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 12:30 pm : link
..
RE: This team shouldn't  
djm : 11/11/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14675383 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
be competing for a championship. But they're more talented than their 2-8 record. Fizdale absolutely should be coaching for his job right now.


One day the Knicks might realize that in an era clearly defined as the era of great lead or great point guards, the Knicks won’t compete unless they have one of the 20 or so excellent PGs currently tearing shit up. We have hot garbage at the PG spot unless you think Frankie smokes and his one good game a month is enough to mitigate these issues.

I hate sports.
Get ready...  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 12:31 pm : link
LOLKnicks.  
BrettNYG10 : 11/11/2019 12:32 pm : link
.
Fiz is fuckin awful  
robbieballs2003 : 11/11/2019 12:33 pm : link
.
RE: Get ready...  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14675400 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


oh its coming, with jeff van gundy president
Is Isola vouching for Thibs or Ewing yet?  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
Or will he let Fiz's corpse cool for a few seconds?
I miss Jeff Van Gundy  
robbieballs2003 : 11/11/2019 12:36 pm : link
.
Fiz might not be up to the job  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/11/2019 12:36 pm : link
But Mills is an incompetent snake. Both can be true at the same time. Snakes are the only creatures that survive in Dolan world.
RE: Is Isola vouching for Thibs or Ewing yet?  
Strahan91 : 11/11/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14675413 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Or will he let Fiz's corpse cool for a few seconds?

Isola reported that Mills is on the hot seat too and Dolan is planning on making a big run at Ujiri this summer.
I've been pounding this drum for awhile  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 12:37 pm : link
but Mike Miller should get the chance. I think promoting him to the NBA staff is partly what Woj means by Mills "laying the groundwork" for the change.
RE: If mills is allowed to hire a new coach i am done  
Mike from SI : 11/11/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14675392 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


Oh, THIS is your limit!? After all the shit we've been through, this is your line in the sand!? Admit it, you're staying on the sinking ship just like the rest of us.
RE: RE: If mills is allowed to hire a new coach i am done  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14675423 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 14675392 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



Oh, THIS is your limit!? After all the shit we've been through, this is your line in the sand!? Admit it, you're staying on the sinking ship just like the rest of us.



you are right...
Thank God.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 11/11/2019 12:41 pm : link
Hire Dave Jaeger. Please.
Mills  
Jon in NYC : 11/11/2019 12:42 pm : link
needs to go too. Re-start -- yet again.
This is not a playoff roster  
larryflower37 : 11/11/2019 12:47 pm : link
but this up and down effort game after game is on the coach.
Also, the constant line-up switches is ridiculous.
Fizdale is over his head and needs to go.
RE: Thank God.  
Anakim : 11/11/2019 12:48 pm : link
In comment 14675437 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Hire Dave Jaeger. Please.


You mean Joerger?

There are a few other names out there as well: Stan Van Gundy, Mark Jackson, Kevin McHale, Thibs...
Mills is the one constant that has been around for the last 2  
Giantfan21 : 11/11/2019 12:52 pm : link
decades other then dolan. Dolan isnt going anywhere unfortunately so get rid of this snake. Him throwing fizdale under the bus to dolan to save his own ass is gross.

The guy built a mismanaged roster and signed a bunch of guys who only care about padding their own stats since they are on short term deals playing for their next contract They are also getting in the way of the young guys developing properly since they are ball stoppers and dont move the ball .

Instead of collecting assets and trading for bad contracts like smart organizations with picks attached they went for another short term fix using cap space on 4 PF and vets who only care about $$$. They cant get mills out of here quick enough
accept it  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 12:52 pm : link

Chris Mannix
@SIChrisMannix
Should the Knicks eventually move on from Fizdale, there are in-house options -- Keith Smart has been a head coach, Kaleb Canales was an interim coach in Portland -- but the name to be watched is Mark Jackson. He was a pre-Fiz candidate and a favorite of GM Scott Perry.
I used to like Thibs  
Mike from SI : 11/11/2019 12:53 pm : link
but I'm afraid he'll run our guys into the ground.
Not a playoff roster by any means.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/11/2019 12:53 pm : link
But not a 2-8 team either.

Again, as with our football team, the fish rots from the head.
RE: accept it  
Giantfan21 : 11/11/2019 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14675480 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

Chris Mannix
@SIChrisMannix
Should the Knicks eventually move on from Fizdale, there are in-house options -- Keith Smart has been a head coach, Kaleb Canales was an interim coach in Portland -- but the name to be watched is Mark Jackson. He was a pre-Fiz candidate and a favorite of GM Scott Perry.


They are going to keep perry and mills and give them a chance to sign another HC ? and they are going to potentially bring in mark jackson ??? HOLY FUCK

Fans need to bring back the protesting outside the garden that was starting to happen before dolan signed phil
I always thought the theme was Fiz would help draw Durant here  
mfsd : 11/11/2019 12:58 pm : link
which obviously didn’t happen. I don’t see how this Knicks roster competes for even the 8 seed, but I also don’t see how Fizdale is the long term answer as a coach.

But I’m sure they’ll handle it terribly, and fuck up a new hire too...because, Knicks
Whichever candidate best resembles Lenny Wilkens  
ghost718 : 11/11/2019 12:59 pm : link
is where I'd place my money
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 1:01 pm : link
If they let Mills and Perry hire Mark Jackson I’m done with this team. Adam Silver needs to step in.

Another pacers win and 19/8/6 from Brogdon. Funny how the Knicks spent 70 million and had no interest in this guy. I’m not saying he’s perfect or would solve everything, but he would help. And he actually wins and defends- not just talk about it like Randle and Portis.
This is all you need to know about mills :  
Giantfan21 : 11/11/2019 1:06 pm : link
Mills has presided over the arrivals and departures of five Knicks coaches. His overall record as team president is 165-337 , including 48-126 since taking the job over from Phil Jackson in 2017.
Mills will no longer escape the wrath of Knicks fans and critics.  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 1:12 pm : link
That's one thing that's been proven in the past 24 hours. He was better off lurking in the shadows.
RE: Mills will no longer escape the wrath of Knicks fans and critics.  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14675524 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
That's one thing that's been proven in the past 24 hours. He was better off lurking in the shadows.


Bingo. And Fizdale has a lot of friends around the league and in the media. He won’t go down without swinging. This needs a full housecleaning. I wish they lost that Dallas game because that might have been on the table.
They're playing Dallas on Thursday at MSG - game's on TNT.  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 1:18 pm : link
A blowout might be great for this franchise. Hope KP goes for 40 and Charles, Kenny and Shaq rip us apart all night.
I would be will to give Mark Jackson  
larryflower37 : 11/11/2019 1:25 pm : link
a shot.
Still think he got a raw deal in G.S.
Curry loved him as a coach.
Sidenote:  
Jon in NYC : 11/11/2019 1:31 pm : link
this is shaping up super well for Fiz. Mills just assumed all of the heat and Fiz about to go full martyr. The narrative will all be slamming the front office and Fizdale will be painted as the scapegoat.
RE: This is all you need to know about mills :  
Anakim : 11/11/2019 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14675516 Giantfan21 said:
Quote:
Mills has presided over the arrivals and departures of five Knicks coaches. His overall record as team president is 165-337 , including 48-126 since taking the job over from Phil Jackson in 2017.


He needs to be gone. I'd rather get rid of Mills than Fizdale, but both should go.
RE: Sidenote:  
mfsd : 11/11/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14675569 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
this is shaping up super well for Fiz. Mills just assumed all of the heat and Fiz about to go full martyr. The narrative will all be slamming the front office and Fizdale will be painted as the scapegoat.


You’re assuming some anonymous stories bashing Fizdale don’t start to leak out...so Dolan and company can spin the narrative their way.

Shoot I half expect it to get leaked that Fizdale has a drinking problem
RE: RE: Sidenote:  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14675589 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 14675569 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


this is shaping up super well for Fiz. Mills just assumed all of the heat and Fiz about to go full martyr. The narrative will all be slamming the front office and Fizdale will be painted as the scapegoat.



You’re assuming some anonymous stories bashing Fizdale don’t start to leak out...so Dolan and company can spin the narrative their way.

Shoot I half expect it to get leaked that Fizdale has a drinking problem


who in the media is friendly with dolan? no one is going to write a story to help dolan
Nobody in the media with any sense would do Dolan’s bidding  
mfsd : 11/11/2019 1:45 pm : link
But he could no doubt find some stoolie with the Post or Daily News to do his bidding, with promise of future quid pro quo
RE: Whichever candidate best resembles Lenny Wilkens  
Anakim : 11/11/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14675506 ghost718 said:
Quote:
is where I'd place my money



So George Karl?
.  
moespree : 11/11/2019 1:48 pm : link
Reminder that Steve Mills is 165-337 as an executive
RE: Nobody in the media with any sense would do Dolan’s bidding  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14675623 mfsd said:
Quote:
But he could no doubt find some stoolie with the Post or Daily News to do his bidding, with promise of future quid pro quo


hahaha you think the dailynews is going to help dolan?
Someone will go on Michael Kay's show this week.  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 2:02 pm : link
That's been their soft landing spot of choice in recent years.
All I want is a functional basketball operation. Forget about  
Heisenberg : 11/11/2019 2:02 pm : link
"competing for a championship" lol. Just be a damn team that doesn't look like a total mess on the court and absolute shitshow behind the scenes.
RE: RE: Thank God.  
Giantz_comeback : 11/11/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14675464 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14675437 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


Hire Dave Jaeger. Please.



You mean Joerger?

There are a few other names out there as well: Stan Van Gundy, Mark Jackson, Kevin McHale, Thibs...


Bring in Jackson for the season see how he does then decide if you want to go another direction in the offseason. Pretty clear Fiz isnt getting it done.
Mark Jackson and Dolan  
arniefez : 11/11/2019 2:37 pm : link
is a Wrestlemania main event level match. There are few things as entertaining as the Dolan Knicks but you add Mark Jackson in between Mills and Dolan? That's gold.
RE: Mark Jackson and Dolan  
Mike from SI : 11/11/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14675764 arniefez said:
Quote:
is a Wrestlemania main event level match. There are few things as entertaining as the Dolan Knicks but you add Mark Jackson in between Mills and Dolan? That's gold.


You wanna make it really interesting? Let JVG and Jackson co-coach.
RE: Mark Jackson and Dolan  
Giantz_comeback : 11/11/2019 2:40 pm : link
In comment 14675764 arniefez said:
Quote:
is a Wrestlemania main event level match. There are few things as entertaining as the Dolan Knicks but you add Mark Jackson in between Mills and Dolan? That's gold.


Would you rather Stan Van Gundy? Thibs is too defense with no offensive clue for my liking.
What this team needs is a big thick  
idiotsavant : 11/11/2019 3:04 pm : link
Eastern European, Slovakian or Russian coach. One who speaks little English and sips vodka and borsht at halftime.

A hockey coach maybe, or weight lifting.

Someone with no empathy.
woj will be on with kay at 5  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 3:06 pm : link
..
RE: woj will be on with kay at 5  
Jon in NYC : 11/11/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14675822 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


This is going to be a bloodbath
Mills has to go  
adamg : 11/11/2019 3:16 pm : link
This is ridiculous
RE: All I want is a functional basketball operation. Forget about  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14675687 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
"competing for a championship" lol. Just be a damn team that doesn't look like a total mess on the court and absolute shitshow behind the scenes.


Ive been saying this for years. I really enjoyed the 2013 team even though I knew they weren't winning the title. Imagine if the Knicks were in the Blazers situation right now? We would love that team.

It's not hard to build a playoff team in the NBA. It's just hard for the Knicks and Steve Mills and Scott Perry. It is hard to build a championship team.
Only difference between the Giants and Knicks  
Oscar : 11/11/2019 3:26 pm : link
Is that I’m still dumb enough to think the Giants could get out of this mess with a couple smart hires. I have no such delusions about the Knicks. It will never work out with Dolan as the owner.
RE: RE: All I want is a functional basketball operation. Forget about  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14675844 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14675687 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


"competing for a championship" lol. Just be a damn team that doesn't look like a total mess on the court and absolute shitshow behind the scenes.



Ive been saying this for years. I really enjoyed the 2013 team even though I knew they weren't winning the title. Imagine if the Knicks were in the Blazers situation right now? We would love that team.

It's not hard to build a playoff team in the NBA. It's just hard for the Knicks and Steve Mills and Scott Perry. It is hard to build a championship team.


yup the hardest part is making that jump from good to great team..

knicks cant even go from bad to mediocre
Usually bad teams hang in the lottery long enough  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 3:39 pm : link
to stumble on a couple of good players. Wizards found Beal and Wall, Raptors found Lowry and DeRozan, Warriors found Curry and Thompson - hell, some of those guys were late lottery picks, not top three or anything. Seattle/OKC found three studs. Knicks found KP and promptly fucked it up. Ntilikina and Knox are looking like complementary pieces, and we'll see about Barrett - shooting needs to improve pretty dramatically for him to be a franchise guy. We should've made more progress by now, even with our half-hearted tanking efforts.
The Knicks aren't a good team, but there's no explanation for the  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/11/2019 3:41 pm : link
complete bed shittings at home against bad teams. If Fiz can get them to play at a certain level in San Antonio, Boston, Orlando, and Dallas, then that level should probably be expected at home against Sacramento, Cleveland, and Chicago. I can't and won't defend the coach for that. And if he can't extract better effort on one end of the floor from Randle and Portis, then maybe they need to sit on the bench. If he's unwilling to do that, someone else should get the job.
I mean, this fucking offense Fiz runs...  
Heisenberg : 11/11/2019 3:59 pm : link
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4h
According to NBA/Synergy playtype data, the Knicks rank dead last in the league, by a wide margin, in points scored off cuts.

New York is running cutting action on just 3.6% of their offensive plays, and averaging just 4.6 points per game off cuts this season

Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
Knicks are also near the very bottom of the league in frequency (15.4%) and points scored (13.8 ppg) off pick-and-roll action.

Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4h
Replying to
@TommyBeer
New York is in the top-10 in Isolation frequency, but they rank 29th in the NBA in points per ISO possessions — scoring just 0.75 points per ISO possession.

Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4h
Knicks are currently top-5 in post-up frequency, but one of only nine teams in the league scoring less than 0.8 points per post-up possession.

Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4h
Only 4 teams run more post-ups than NY:
Sixers (Embiid), Lakers (AD), Spurs (Aldridge) and Nuggets (Jokic).

There are only 19 players in the NBA that have post-up frequency greater than 15%.
Three of those 19 players are Knicks: Julius Randle, Bobby Portis and Marcus Morris
i am really nervous because the east is garbage  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 4:01 pm : link
that the knicks keep pace meaning like 2 or 3 games back of 8th and perry and mills trade their expirings and a pick for chris paul
RE: i am really nervous because the east is garbage  
Heisenberg : 11/11/2019 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14675956 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
that the knicks keep pace meaning like 2 or 3 games back of 8th and perry and mills trade their expirings and a pick for chris paul


If they gave assets too, it might be worth it to eat Paul's contract and let him be the best player on this team for a while.
Who on this roster should be running/scoring off of cuts?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/11/2019 4:08 pm : link
Ellington? Dotson? They simply don't have players with the necessary skill-sets (movement and jump shooting) to do that.
It is obvious  
gary_from_chester : 11/11/2019 4:08 pm : link
Next Knicks coach will be Charles Oakley 😊
RE: RE: i am really nervous because the east is garbage  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14675973 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 14675956 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


that the knicks keep pace meaning like 2 or 3 games back of 8th and perry and mills trade their expirings and a pick for chris paul



If they gave assets too, it might be worth it to eat Paul's contract and let him be the best player on this team for a while.


if okc gives me 2 firsts i would abaolutely do it
A good GM could make a solid Paul deal, like Presti did.  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 4:10 pm : link
SGA and bunch of draft picks is a nice haul. You could even work a three-team trade where Paul ends up on a contender and a bunch of assets come your way. But we're not smart enough for such things.
RE: Who on this roster should be running/scoring off of cuts?  
Heisenberg : 11/11/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14675974 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
Ellington? Dotson? They simply don't have players with the necessary skill-sets (movement and jump shooting) to do that.


Any player can score off a cut. It's indicative of the general lack of motion in the offense completely. The stats show what the eye test shows. This offense is predicated on standing around and watching someone try to score. Melo would have fucking loved it.
RE: A good GM could make a solid Paul deal, like Presti did.  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 4:17 pm : link
In comment 14675983 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
SGA and bunch of draft picks is a nice haul. You could even work a three-team trade where Paul ends up on a contender and a bunch of assets come your way. But we're not smart enough for such things.


Knocks could wipe away all of their cap and clean their books if they wanted to
I hate Bondy but this column is his best work...  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 4:27 pm : link
Quote:
The greatest trick Steve Mills ever pulled was convincing Knicks fans he didn’t exist. For over 15 years, Mills has assumed a top executive role at Madison Square Garden, lording over one of the most dysfunctional and unfathomable situations in sports.

Yet Mills has survived in the shadows, distancing himself from one bad maneuver after another. He was the firestarter promoted to firefighter, equipped only with James Dolan’s trust and buzzwords like “culture” and “changing the perception.” Mills’ latest survival tactic was an impromptu press conference on Sunday night, when the Princeton grad declared himself and GM Scott Perry “not happy with where we are right now. We think the team is not performing to the level that we anticipated or we expected to perform at.”

In other words, Mills believes he did a fine job in free agency (he called it “successful” before the season) despite striking out on all his top targets. ESPN reported Monday that Mills has been laying the groundwork for the “eventual dismissal” of Fizdale. That would represent the fifth coach fired with Mills as either GM or team president.

He’s great at finding fall guys.

“I got a two-and-a-half year contract,” Fizdale responded Monday when asked if he’s received any assurances concerning his job. “That’s my assurance. That’s my business. The assurance is that I have a contract.”

Mills declined comment Monday.

To be clear, Fizdale has done a poor job as Knicks coach and deserves criticism for, among other things, failing to establish an identity. But firing the coach would be a band-aid on a bazooka wound. Fizdale isn’t the root of the problem.

There are precisely zero other NBA teams that would hire Mills to be its president of basketball operations. His work as an executive and talent evaluator would make David Kahn cringe.

BondyNYDN - ( New Window )
Not the biggest stephen a smith fan  
GMEN46 : 11/11/2019 4:35 pm : link
But his rant about steve mills needing to be drug tested immediately had me nearly crying I was laughing so hard.
..  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 4:44 pm : link
portis, payton, trier and bullock for paul and 2 firsts...
RE: RE: Who on this roster should be running/scoring off of cuts?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/11/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14675984 Heisenberg said:
Quote:

Any player can score off a cut. It's indicative of the general lack of motion in the offense completely. The stats show what the eye test shows. This offense is predicated on standing around and watching someone try to score. Melo would have fucking loved it.


Players can't cut into a pile of bodies. When there's no respect for the shooters, there isn't going to be the necessary spacing to allow for cuts. Guys like Randle, Portis, and Morris don't really have movement skills and RJ's shooting issues are going to keep people from overextending the defense to chase him around. I know what one would want the offense to look like, but that's not necessarily the best fit for the players the Knicks have.
RE: ..  
Jon in NYC : 11/11/2019 6:36 pm : link
In comment 14676053 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
portis, payton, trier and bullock for paul and 2 firsts...


Do you really think OKC would accept this?
RE: RE: ..  
Jon in NYC : 11/11/2019 6:38 pm : link
In comment 14676181 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14676053 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


portis, payton, trier and bullock for paul and 2 firsts...



Do you really think OKC would accept this?


Actually, I don't think either team should accept this.
RE: RE: ..  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 6:47 pm : link
In comment 14676181 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14676053 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


portis, payton, trier and bullock for paul and 2 firsts...



Do you really think OKC would accept this?


they completely clear out pauls contract and let sga and schroeder run the point...

they are not getting anything for paul
RE: ..  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14676053 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
portis, payton, trier and bullock for paul and 2 firsts...


Sign me up but I think OKC laughs at that.

A good GM could facilitate a 3 way trade with a contender like Milwaukee or Miami but we don’t have a good GM.
$45 million  
Enzo : 11/11/2019 7:11 pm : link
for chris paul at age 37 in 21/22? That's just too crazy a number. It would have to be a pile of picks coming back.

It was different for OKC taking on the deal - they were on the hook for Westbrook anyway at a similar number that year and an additional year. But absorbing that deal into what is currently empty cap space? I think I'll pass...
RE: $45 million  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14676227 Enzo said:
Quote:
for chris paul at age 37 in 21/22? That's just too crazy a number. It would have to be a pile of picks coming back.

It was different for OKC taking on the deal - they were on the hook for Westbrook anyway at a similar number that year and an additional year. But absorbing that deal into what is currently empty cap space? I think I'll pass...


Good point. Take on Noah’s cap hit and Randles 4 mill guaranteed and your probably looking at over half your cap to players not on the team or that can’t really help.
can the knicks trade the cap hit?  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 7:33 pm : link
i thought it was just dead money
for anyone interested, the Westchester Knicks are on MSG  
Del Shofner : 11/11/2019 7:43 pm : link
right now.
alan hahn on at 8pm  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 7:44 pm : link
..
RE: can the knicks trade the cap hit?  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14676239 nygiants16 said:
[quote] i thought it was just dead money

No you can’t.
Knicks have not had a play making guard since marbury  
GMEN46 : 11/11/2019 8:01 pm : link
I would package some of these expirings with a protected 1st for deangelo russell. His contract is very reasonable. Him a frank would actually be a very nice backcourt together
Hahn is on the Mark Jackson/Jeff Van Gundy bandwagon  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 8:33 pm : link
because they’re New Yorkers. You’d think a tough New Yorker like Jackson could handle the pressure of....Golden State??? But no, that proved too much for him. Tired of living in the past with this franchise. The 90s Knicks get treated like they’re the 90s Yankees. They aren’t.
RE: Hahn is on the Mark Jackson/Jeff Van Gundy bandwagon  
Enzo : 11/11/2019 8:45 pm : link
In comment 14676294 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
because they’re New Yorkers. You’d think a tough New Yorker like Jackson could handle the pressure of....Golden State??? But no, that proved too much for him. Tired of living in the past with this franchise. The 90s Knicks get treated like they’re the 90s Yankees. They aren’t.

I could be talked into JVG. But Mark Jackson would be terrible.
Yeah, JVG would be my choice of the two.  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 8:53 pm : link
I'd have serious questions about his ability to adjust to the current style of play though - grinding things out in the half court is an uphill battle.
Steve Mills  
slickwilly : 11/11/2019 9:08 pm : link
The fact this guy still has a job, let alone president of the fucking NY Knicks just shows why not just this team, but why our country as a whole sucks.
Steve Mills  
slickwilly : 11/11/2019 9:09 pm : link
The fact this guy still has a job, let alone president of the fucking NY Knicks just shows why not just this team, but why our country as a whole sucks.
RE: Steve Mills  
steve in ky : 11/11/2019 9:12 pm : link
In comment 14676338 slickwilly said:
Quote:
The fact this guy still has a job, let alone president of the fucking NY Knicks just shows why not just this team, but why our country as a whole sucks.



That's a bit melodramatic
For what it's worth, guys like Steph, Klay, etc.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/11/2019 9:16 pm : link
Had nothing but praise for Jackson's time with the Dubs.

The whole thing is a joke. As long as we have this buffoon of an owner, nothing will change.
i get what he is saying  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 9:17 pm : link
basically need a guy who knows the pressure of new york, you need someone to embraces that pressure..

you dont need another guy just taking the money
Hell no to Jeff Van Quitter  
Greg from LI : 11/11/2019 9:19 pm : link
.
Does JVG even want to leave his gig?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/11/2019 9:21 pm : link
He's got a comfy job as it is.
RE: Does JVG even want to leave his gig?  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14676367 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He's got a comfy job as it is.


he said he wa sijterested
RE: Hell no to Jeff Van Quitter  
steve in ky : 11/11/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14676362 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


I won't judge a man who was grieved enough at the loss of one of his closest friends on 9-11 the he needed to take a break from the intensity of being an NBA coach.
sorry interested  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 9:32 pm : link
knicks never called
I think JVG would sprint back here.  
bceagle05 : 11/11/2019 9:32 pm : link
.
i would be ok with van gundy head coach  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 9:37 pm : link
mark jackson as an assistant
KP 1-11 from field tonight @ Celts; 4 points, 5 fouls  
shyster : 11/11/2019 10:14 pm : link
And more than once getting beat down the court for easy Boston baskets off missed shots.

Celts win 116-106; Mavs stayed close until late because of Doncic.

Woj's comment that the KP trade was a "devastating" loss for the Knicks is, at best, way premature.

KP: 1-11 from field tonight; 4 pts, 5 fouls  
shyster : 11/11/2019 10:15 pm : link
And more than once getting beat down the court for easy Boston baskets off missed shots.

Celts win 116-106; Mavs stayed close until late because of Doncic.

Woj's comment that the KP trade was a "devastating" loss for the Knicks is, at best, way premature.

RE: RE: RE: If mills is allowed to hire a new coach i am done  
djm : 11/11/2019 10:38 pm : link
In comment 14675432 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14675423 Mike from SI said:


Quote:


In comment 14675392 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


..



Oh, THIS is your limit!? After all the shit we've been through, this is your line in the sand!? Admit it, you're staying on the sinking ship just like the rest of us.




you are right...


I’ll be there too. I’ll be in the band Playing the trombone while the ship goes down...
RE: KP: 1-11 from field tonight; 4 pts, 5 fouls  
TyreeHelmet : 11/11/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14676426 shyster said:
Quote:
And more than once getting beat down the court for easy Boston baskets off missed shots.

Celts win 116-106; Mavs stayed close until late because of Doncic.

Woj's comment that the KP trade was a "devastating" loss for the Knicks is, at best, way premature.


Even if you don’t believe in KP, the return on a player like that is devastating. They gave him away. Not sure how that can debated at this point.


One bad game....
RE: RE: KP: 1-11 from field tonight; 4 pts, 5 fouls  
shyster : 11/11/2019 11:20 pm : link
In comment 14676465 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


Even if you don’t believe in KP, the return on a player like that is devastating. They gave him away. Not sure how that can debated at this point.


One bad game....


KP on the verge of requiring a max contract for his services was arguably an asset of near zero net value.

The pertinent issue isn't whether he is a "good" player. The issue is whether he was worth a 5 year commitment at #32M per year.

If not, he did not have net value.

And tonight is not just one game. He's shooting not much better than 40% on the season. And he's a slow, lumbering guy in a game that is trending significantly faster paced.

RE: RE: KP: 1-11 from field tonight; 4 pts, 5 fouls  
nygiants16 : 11/11/2019 11:59 pm : link
In comment 14676465 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14676426 shyster said:


Quote:


And more than once getting beat down the court for easy Boston baskets off missed shots.

Celts win 116-106; Mavs stayed close until late because of Doncic.

Woj's comment that the KP trade was a "devastating" loss for the Knicks is, at best, way premature.




Even if you don’t believe in KP, the return on a player like that is devastating. They gave him away. Not sure how that can debated at this point.


One bad game....


its not one bad game, the mavs are brtter with hjm off the floir according to stats..

he has a good game tgen a bad game..


18 and 7 on 40%

meanwhile randle is 16 and 10 with 3 assists on 44%
RE: Hell no to Jeff Van Quitter  
Vanzetti : 11/12/2019 12:47 am : link
In comment 14676362 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Thank God there is at least one person with some common
Sense . I’m
Guessing most of this who want JVG were kids when
He coached
.  
moespree : 11/12/2019 1:11 am : link
Van Gundy would improve the team and they'd win more games than they would with Fizdale but what would make anyone think he is a long-term answer? I don't know if he can even run a modern NBA team. It's been 12 years since he coached in the league. The system he used to run would be annihilated and steamrolled by the modern game.
Porzingis has developed Carmeloitis  
Jim in Fairfax : 11/12/2019 1:25 am : link
He takes way too many contested midrange jumpers. Unless he changes his approach it’s going to limit his effectivemness.

Which isn’t to say he can’t. The first step is admitting you have a problem.
Knicks Bigger Mess Than Giants  
Jeffrey : 11/12/2019 8:16 am : link
Both teams have bad GMs who made bad coaching hires and some major misses in free agency. At least Mara and Tisch are not clowns and care about their team. They may not know what to do to fix it, but lack of interest is not the problem.
RE: RE: Steve Mills  
slickwilly : 11/12/2019 8:42 am : link
In comment 14676347 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 14676338 slickwilly said:


Quote:


The fact this guy still has a job, let alone president of the fucking NY Knicks just shows why not just this team, but why our country as a whole sucks.




That's a bit melodramatic


You are correct, was caught up in my feelings.
Porzingis  
TyreeHelmet : 11/12/2019 8:47 am : link
If you think he had net negative trade value and is a slow lumbering big man that doesn’t fit today’s game, we will have to simply disagree.

And comparing him to Julius Randle? Cite all the offensive stats you want, the other side of the ball matters. One player is a elite rim protector and the other is an awful defender. And I’ll take KPs offensive game over Randle all day.

He’s 10 games into a season with a new team after missing 1.5 seasons with an ACL injury. I wouldn’t give much credence to those stats just yet.

Bottom line is they got nothing for a player who can shoot 3s and protect the rim- both at very good levels. Do you know how hard this is to find?
RE: Knicks Bigger Mess Than Giants  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 8:48 am : link
In comment 14676682 Jeffrey said:
Quote:
Both teams have bad GMs who made bad coaching hires and some major misses in free agency. At least Mara and Tisch are not clowns and care about their team. They may not know what to do to fix it, but lack of interest is not the problem.


so you want dolan more involved? do you really think dolan doesnt care? you think he was spending all that money on the team and doesnt care?

Dolan is a bad owner because he trusts and hires the wrong people..
RE: Porzingis  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14676725 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
If you think he had net negative trade value and is a slow lumbering big man that doesn’t fit today’s game, we will have to simply disagree.

And comparing him to Julius Randle? Cite all the offensive stats you want, the other side of the ball matters. One player is a elite rim protector and the other is an awful defender. And I’ll take KPs offensive game over Randle all day.

He’s 10 games into a season with a new team after missing 1.5 seasons with an ACL injury. I wouldn’t give much credence to those stats just yet.

Bottom line is they got nothing for a player who can shoot 3s and protect the rim- both at very good levels. Do you know how hard this is to find?


KP is an awful defender, he can block shots but he is horrible defensively...

And it is hard to find a guy who can shoot the 3 and block shots?

Brooke Lopez does the same thing KP does for a 1/3 of the price..

Plus KP for a 7'3 guy is a horrible rebounder
RE: RE: RE: Who on this roster should be running/scoring off of cuts?  
Heisenberg : 11/12/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14676172 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14675984 Heisenberg said:


Quote:



Any player can score off a cut. It's indicative of the general lack of motion in the offense completely. The stats show what the eye test shows. This offense is predicated on standing around and watching someone try to score. Melo would have fucking loved it.



Players can't cut into a pile of bodies. When there's no respect for the shooters, there isn't going to be the necessary spacing to allow for cuts. Guys like Randle, Portis, and Morris don't really have movement skills and RJ's shooting issues are going to keep people from overextending the defense to chase him around. I know what one would want the offense to look like, but that's not necessarily the best fit for the players the Knicks have.


I'm not saying that the offense should be built on cutting to the basket. I'm saying that the stat is reflective of a general lack of motion in the offense. The Iso "hero ball" that Fiz seems to like to run with Morris and Randle and even RJ. The knicks do very little to put pressure on the defense at all. There are cuts that can be made off a PnR early in a possession that would make it harder for the defense to settle in. Instead, Morris or Randle dribble for a few seconds way past the 3pt line before a ball screen comes and then we're on our way to a switch that becomes an iso or a bad shot off the dribble. There is no motion or organization to the offense. The point is not that these guys have foot speed to outrun defenders to the basket. The point is that players moving and cutting, even with slower footspeed puts pressure on the defense to stay organized while also following these players around.

Lastly, if Randle, Portis and Morris don't have movement skills (I agree with this completely) then Fiz shouldn't play all three at the same time. Work in Dot, Trier and Knox with just two of those three at any time.
RE: RE: Porzingis  
Enzo : 11/12/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14676736 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14676725 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


If you think he had net negative trade value and is a slow lumbering big man that doesn’t fit today’s game, we will have to simply disagree.

And comparing him to Julius Randle? Cite all the offensive stats you want, the other side of the ball matters. One player is a elite rim protector and the other is an awful defender. And I’ll take KPs offensive game over Randle all day.

He’s 10 games into a season with a new team after missing 1.5 seasons with an ACL injury. I wouldn’t give much credence to those stats just yet.

Bottom line is they got nothing for a player who can shoot 3s and protect the rim- both at very good levels. Do you know how hard this is to find?



KP is an awful defender, he can block shots but he is horrible defensively...

And it is hard to find a guy who can shoot the 3 and block shots?

Brooke Lopez does the same thing KP does for a 1/3 of the price..

Plus KP for a 7'3 guy is a horrible rebounder

this take is....something.

Please give us more of your insights! Can't wait to hear what else you got!
RE: RE: Porzingis  
TyreeHelmet : 11/12/2019 9:23 am : link
In comment 14676736 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14676725 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


If you think he had net negative trade value and is a slow lumbering big man that doesn’t fit today’s game, we will have to simply disagree.

And comparing him to Julius Randle? Cite all the offensive stats you want, the other side of the ball matters. One player is a elite rim protector and the other is an awful defender. And I’ll take KPs offensive game over Randle all day.

He’s 10 games into a season with a new team after missing 1.5 seasons with an ACL injury. I wouldn’t give much credence to those stats just yet.

Bottom line is they got nothing for a player who can shoot 3s and protect the rim- both at very good levels. Do you know how hard this is to find?



KP is an awful defender, he can block shots but he is horrible defensively...

And it is hard to find a guy who can shoot the 3 and block shots?

Brooke Lopez does the same thing KP does for a 1/3 of the price..

Plus KP for a 7'3 guy is a horrible rebounder


Agree about the rebounding but disagree about everything else. You are underselling KP big time.

Whatever after Thursday hopefully everyone moves on. I just want Mills and Perry gone. I finally watched that whole press conference and it was truly unbelievable. How could anyone trust those 2? And why do the Knicks have to have some bizarre partnership? One person needs to be in charge but Mills loves ducking blame.
There are some pretty glaring red  
Jon in NYC : 11/12/2019 9:30 am : link
flags with Kristaps.

Between the inefficiency from the field, the injuries and the poor rebounding, I don't think he'll ever be a top 30 player in the league.
Porzingis missed a year and a half  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 9:36 am : link
Nine games post-injury is a bit of a small sample to be making definitive statements on the player he will be going forward.
RE: RE: RE: Porzingis  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14676796 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14676736 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14676725 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


If you think he had net negative trade value and is a slow lumbering big man that doesn’t fit today’s game, we will have to simply disagree.

And comparing him to Julius Randle? Cite all the offensive stats you want, the other side of the ball matters. One player is a elite rim protector and the other is an awful defender. And I’ll take KPs offensive game over Randle all day.

He’s 10 games into a season with a new team after missing 1.5 seasons with an ACL injury. I wouldn’t give much credence to those stats just yet.

Bottom line is they got nothing for a player who can shoot 3s and protect the rim- both at very good levels. Do you know how hard this is to find?



KP is an awful defender, he can block shots but he is horrible defensively...

And it is hard to find a guy who can shoot the 3 and block shots?

Brooke Lopez does the same thing KP does for a 1/3 of the price..

Plus KP for a 7'3 guy is a horrible rebounder



Agree about the rebounding but disagree about everything else. You are underselling KP big time.

Whatever after Thursday hopefully everyone moves on. I just want Mills and Perry gone. I finally watched that whole press conference and it was truly unbelievable. How could anyone trust those 2? And why do the Knicks have to have some bizarre partnership? One person needs to be in charge but Mills loves ducking blame.


what am i underselling? besides those 10 games his 3rd year, he is an ineffecient scorer, and cant rebound, and he is an awful defender besides shot blocking..

He will have games where he looks dominant but it is few and far between..even the vame against the knicks, when it mattered most he was 1-5...

i am nlt saying he cant get better  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 9:38 am : link
but right now he is what he is, and he has been this way his entire career not just based off of 9 games, this is who he is
he had a PER of 20.4 when he got hurt  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 9:42 am : link
But yeah, he's always been inefficient.

You're shading things to fit what you want to believe about him and exaggerating his negatives quite a bit.
RE: he had a PER of 20.4 when he got hurt  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14676833 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But yeah, he's always been inefficient.

You're shading things to fit what you want to believe about him and exaggerating his negatives quite a bit.


he shot 44% in his 3rd year before he got hurt, how is that effecient?
because he was shooting 40% on 3s  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 9:47 am : link
Whatever, man. The trade was a stroke of genius and we're clearly much better off without him.
RE: because he was shooting 40% on 3s  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14676846 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Whatever, man. The trade was a stroke of genius and we're clearly much better off without him.


did i fucking say that? where did i say it was a good trade? i simply stating that kp is not a superstar yet that everyone claims.., he is a good player that is a 2 or 3 on a good team...

I said the same thing when he was knick to...

Was Carmelo an effecient scorer on the Knicks?
but i am the only asshole  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 9:59 am : link

Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
26m
Kristaps Porzingis is the only player in the NBA this season attempting more than 15 FG's per game, yet shooting 40% or worse from the floor and below 70% from the FT stripe.
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
4m
The Mavs are scoring 101.2 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis ON the floor this season.

The Mavs are scoring 125.7 points per 100 possessions with Porzingis OFF the court this season.

KP'S Net Rating (minus-8.3) is the worst on the team.
So we're back to talking about his first nine games  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 10:00 am : link
after missing 18 months
RE: So we're back to talking about his first nine games  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14676883 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
after missing 18 months


you didnt answer the question, was melo effecient as a knick?
This is a dumb argument,  
Jon in NYC : 11/12/2019 10:04 am : link
but I have to admit it would be nice to see KP level out as a super inefficient player who becomes a third option on a low level playoff team.
And i called kp a 2 or 3 on a good team  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 10:08 am : link
how am i killong him?
RE: This is a dumb argument,  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14676895 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
but I have to admit it would be nice to see KP level out as a super inefficient player who becomes a third option on a low level playoff team.


I disagree. I'd rather he play well and rub Dolan's fat fucking face in it.
Also, I have no idea what Melo has to do with anything  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 10:13 am : link
.
"awful defender"  
TyreeHelmet : 11/12/2019 10:16 am : link
You don't actually believe that right? He's not Gobert but he's an above average to good defender and provides great rim protection. An awful defender is Randle and Bobby Portis.

And KP was averaging 23 points on 40/44/80 shooting in 48 games in 2017/2018. 18.5 FGA/ 4.5 3PA/ 4.5 FTA. How is that inefficient? Not to mention with Hardaway as his 2nd scorer and no point guard.

I know people want to frame this trade favorably for the Knicks but some of these arguments are absurd. Why do you think some of the smartest teams in the league wanted him?

Let me put it another way. If we offered Dallas there 2 picks back and DSJ, they would laugh the Knicks off the phone.

RE: Also, I have no idea what Melo has to do with anything  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14676924 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


well you said kp was efrecient because of his per of 20.5

so i was just wondering what you thought of melo who had a 21.5 per in 7 seasons with the knicks...

Just wondering who was the chucker and who was effecient?
RE:  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14676932 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
You don't actually believe that right? He's not Gobert but he's an above average to good defender and provides great rim protection. An awful defender is Randle and Bobby Portis.

And KP was averaging 23 points on 40/44/80 shooting in 48 games in 2017/2018. 18.5 FGA/ 4.5 3PA/ 4.5 FTA. How is that inefficient? Not to mention with Hardaway as his 2nd scorer and no point guard.

I know people want to frame this trade favorably for the Knicks but some of these arguments are absurd. Why do you think some of the smartest teams in the league wanted him?

Let me put it another way. If we offered Dallas there 2 picks back and DSJ, they would laugh the Knicks off the phone.


KP is a fantastic shot blocker but his defensive awareness is not very good, he is not a good 1 on 1 defender, gets lost in space and has slow feet..

And i am not framing anything i said the same thing when he was a knick as i am sayong now
KP  
Enzo : 11/12/2019 10:30 am : link
could end up the next Greg Kite and it doesn't change the fact that multiple regimes at MSG botched nearly every single thing related to him since the day he was drafted. If a few random lousy stats one month into his comeback make you feel better about how the team handled his time here, then have at it. But that doesn't change the fact that we've had morons running this team for quite some time.
just for the record i never once said it was a good trade  
nygiants16 : 11/12/2019 10:36 am : link
id much rather have kp here than in dallas, but all i am saying is he has a lot to do before he is considered a superstar player...

Porzingis  
Mike in NJ : 11/12/2019 10:56 am : link
We all know he is a talented player, and does a lot of things on the court that very few guys in the league can do. He wasn't nicknamed the "Unicorn" by accident.

But the most important stat for him is that for his CAREER he has played a total of 1 game in the month of April. Durability is the question for him, not talent.
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