I keep hearing the Giants are 3-4 years away. I also hear Gettleman deserves at minimum 3 years to see this through - I think all of that is bullshit.
The Raiders sold off their team LAST YEAR. Everyone here wanted no part of trading for David Carr (so, don’t tell me the Raiders were super talented). Yet, they are 5-4 one year later with a good chance to make the playoffs.
Are we all so beaten down as a fan base where we keep saying this is a 4-5 year rebuild & Gettleman needs more time? Look around the NFL - it should NOT take this long to be competitive (this team doesn’t even compete in losses). We are in worse shape than we were in 2017!!
Look at the Raiders. It should not take this long to be competitive.
Coaching makes a huge difference
Gettleman has done an objectively terrible job.
Looks like that was a very smart move to ignite the rebuild.
And they are loaded with draft picks - high draft picks - in the next two drafts.
Still early, but looks like Mayock and Gruden had a plan and are executing it fairly well.
They have done a terrific job, btw, of building one of the best OLs in the NFL, too...
Coaching makes a huge difference
That’s the point. Rebuilds shouldn’t take this long. Clear the deck & stop fucking around.
It shouldn’t take
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We have a proven loser in Shurmur
Coaching makes a huge difference
That’s the point. Rebuilds shouldn’t take this long. Clear the deck & stop fucking around.
Bingo.
Blow out this regime. The name of the game is to get better. We were 3-13 in 2017. The 5-11 last year was deceptive in that the NYG ran into some backup QB’s (Fitz, Daniels, Sanchez). And, unless they shock us, this year will result in 4-12 at best. You can make the case the franchise is in worse shape now than it was when this crew showed up.
We are watching different games. Back in 2017 I’d say those were competitive losses. Not this year.
which is why gettleman cannot be the one spending the money.
Dallas kicked the living shit out of us, both games.
Minny kicked the living shit out of us, as well as Buffalo.
And we were not competitive against the Patriots, a game in which our opponent doubled our total yardage (427 vs 213) and doubled our time of possession (39:36 vs 20:24).
We are being dominated, destroyed and savaged at the LOS, both sides of the ball. We can't stop anybody and we can't block anybody.
We need 6 - 8 solid new starters not currently on the roster, and we need a brand new coaching staff, preferably hired by new owners who are savvy-minded football people.
If there is not a radical make-over of this franchise from top-to-bottom, we could be looking at a decade of futility added to the last 6-7 years.
And he was looking for total control. Only Mark Davis was willing to agree to those terms.
Just think, the GM Mayock reports to Gruden...
Oline is the biggest issue facing the Giants on Offense....and has been since 2011. Fix it Gettleman...fix it now.
We had plenty of cap space last year to make moves, problem is the loser at GM and HC and ownership kept Eli on the roster.
The list of mistakes this current regime has made is very, very long.
They don't deserve another year. All that would be doing is delaying the real rebuild of this franchise by another year.
The Giants o-line and d-line are at best marginally better than it was when Gettleman got here.
There are huge holes at almost every premium position. He got the QB, that's about the extent of good things Gettleman has done. O-line stinks, d-line on the edge stinks, linebackers are awful, safeties are awful. Corner has huge question marks, same with WR.
Anyone who believes this team is even close to on the right track has no idea what the hell they are looking at.
The Dolphins are trying to lose, and they still have the same record as a Giants team that has a coach who is coaching for his job.
Gettleman sold everyone a fake bill of goods in the off-season.
There is zero reason to give either Gettleman or Shurmur another season. Get a real coach and a real GM in place and start to actually rebuild this thing. The only positive thing Gettleman has done is Jones.
Oline is the biggest issue facing the Giants on Offense....and has been since 2011. Fix it Gettleman...fix it now.
He's had 2 years to fix it and the line is at best marginally better than it was 2 years ago.
That was supposed to be his calling card, ability to identify offensive lineman.
Hernandez has been decent. Zetiler has been a disappointment. Solder and Remmers stink. So does Halapio.
Looks like that was a very smart move to ignite the rebuild.
And they are loaded with draft picks - high draft picks - in the next two drafts.
Still early, but looks like Mayock and Gruden had a plan and are executing it fairly well.
They have done a terrific job, btw, of building one of the best OLs in the NFL, too...
You cannot describe the difference between the Raiders and the Giants right now with just one player/move (i.e. Khalil Mack). The Giants similarly had an elite talent that they traded in Beckham and got back a 1st, a 3rd, and a guy who was a 1st rounder in 2017. I know the haul wasn't as massive as the Raiders got for Mack, but that's case and point right there: the Beckham trade it seems actually turned out well for NYG it appears. But one decent trade doesn't rebuild an entire team. This current roster has been constructed from top to bottom by one David Gettleman. And they suck. The team sucks. They are not 1-2 years of development away from winning, they will never be winners, because the team sucks. They have a few decent players but the team as a whole sucks and it's Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur and James Bettcher and John Mara's fault, not Jerry Reese and Ben McAdoo's fault, period.
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Antonio Brown, for example.
Oline is the biggest issue facing the Giants on Offense....and has been since 2011. Fix it Gettleman...fix it now.
He's had 2 years to fix it and the line is at best marginally better than it was 2 years ago.
That was supposed to be his calling card, ability to identify offensive lineman.
Hernandez has been decent. Zetiler has been a disappointment. Solder and Remmers stink. So does Halapio.
I think Zeitler is playing hurt (Shoulder). Yes, he is out there so he needs to perform, but certainly not able to play to his full capabilities.
I thought Nick Gates showed something yesterday. Maybe he can be another DG undrafted find?
Oh give me a fricking break. People on BBI are tripping over themselves to make excuses for DG at every turn. Gettleman has done absolutely nothing in his career to deserve the benefit of the doubt, he's not a certified loser like Shurmur but has nothing on his resume that should have people constantly making excuses for him
Why do you think Patricia and McDaniels didn't take the job? You think having Gettleman as your GM with personnel powers is an attractive prospect?
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was their third choice after McDaniels and Patricia. So you can partially give Gettleman a pass on that, it's not his fault the Giants franchise had become such a clusterf*ck all the good coaches wanted to go elsewhere.
Why do you think Patricia and McDaniels didn't take the job? You think having Gettleman as your GM with personnel powers is an attractive prospect?
It’s laughable. The fucking guy is a buffoon and people here want to give him a pass for everything
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Khalil Mack.
Looks like that was a very smart move to ignite the rebuild.
And they are loaded with draft picks - high draft picks - in the next two drafts.
Still early, but looks like Mayock and Gruden had a plan and are executing it fairly well.
They have done a terrific job, btw, of building one of the best OLs in the NFL, too...
You cannot describe the difference between the Raiders and the Giants right now with just one player/move (i.e. Khalil Mack). The Giants similarly had an elite talent that they traded in Beckham and got back a 1st, a 3rd, and a guy who was a 1st rounder in 2017. I know the haul wasn't as massive as the Raiders got for Mack, but that's case and point right there: the Beckham trade it seems actually turned out well for NYG it appears. But one decent trade doesn't rebuild an entire team. This current roster has been constructed from top to bottom by one David Gettleman. And they suck. The team sucks. They are not 1-2 years of development away from winning, they will never be winners, because the team sucks. They have a few decent players but the team as a whole sucks and it's Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur and James Bettcher and John Mara's fault, not Jerry Reese and Ben McAdoo's fault, period.
I didn't draw a comparison between the Mack and the OBJ trade. They got a near king's ransom for Mack and that has set them up very well in the short and long term.
Holy shit! Another excuse for DG.
Hey I'm all for waiting after next year-- but holy shit posters like you are so blinded by your homerism.
That's a hell of a rebuild.
Not sure this is the model the NYG should be looking to replicate.
all it’s starters and When the Dolphins come to Met life and whip the giants who many have penciled in as a win will be the the Death knell on Shurmur
Bye bye Pat !
As a GM? Yes, I'm pretty sure. I don't give a wet shit how many Super Bowls teams that employed him as a scout went to.
Do you have some kind of a personal connection with Gettleman via the Panthers or something? I doubt his own lawyer defends him as ferociously as you do.
Do you have some kind of a personal connection with Gettleman via the Panthers or something? I doubt his own lawyer defends him as ferociously as you do.
That's a strange take - wondering why the GM is being defended. Why do you shit on him for everything, including minimizing that he had the best record of any GM in Carolina's history and went to a SB?
One needs to have a personal connection to refute consistently shitty takes?
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I say the vast majority of that team's talent was on the roster the day he was hired, you disagree.
Do you have some kind of a personal connection with Gettleman via the Panthers or something? I doubt his own lawyer defends him as ferociously as you do.
That's a strange take - wondering why the GM is being defended. Why do you shit on him for everything, including minimizing that he had the best record of any GM in Carolina's history and went to a SB?
One needs to have a personal connection to refute consistently shitty takes?
Fatman, I say this not trying to start or continue our foodfight.
But Greg is right, you do defend DG ferociously. It has gotten to the point where many posters are wondering why, not just Greg. There is plenty to criticize DG about, I think just about everybody would criticize him about how hwe has handled free agency, and has squandered chunks of cap space. He as also missed on a number of draft picks, and his trades have been up and down. There are debatable issues regarding his overall draft grades, draft strategy, team building philosophy, self scouting, use of new technology, data science, and analytics.
If anybody ventures into the debatable areas, you react with venom and call them shitty takes.
I have even seen you defend DG (perhaps a less so recently) regarding FA and cap space. Areas where there can be little doubt he has done poorly.
Your defense of DG is pretty much reflexive to the point where anybody reading would naturally have to question why, is there some unspoken connection there? I have certainly wondered that.
Call it whatever you want. The numbers don't lie: Gettleman is presiding over a team that is 7-19 in his tenure, and getting worse.
Perhaps...
You are an optimist Britt, and you don't defend DG to the same level. You have acknowledged that its been a mixed bag.
The thing is most of the DG critics will agree that its been a mixed bag. It's just which parts of the bag the individual think is more important and deserves to be emphasized.
I don't have the same impression from FMiC. Maybe, I am wrong, maybe he can clarify.
My point to Greg is a common one to posters here - Gettleman gets absolutely no credence from some of these posters. And they often intentionally dismiss his career accomplishments. Greg doesn't give a shit about Gettleman being a scout for several SB teams. OK. He also doesn't give him any credit for going to a SB as a GM?? It doesn't make sense.
I'm providing a counter-point for the people who made their minds up from the method in which Gettleman was hired that he wasn't a good choice or he is incompetent. And when I say he deserves better, there are obtuse posters who say he doesn't and never has. It's complete bullshit.
Go Terps likes to say that Gettleman has committed a number of "fireable offenses", yet if one were to look at moves made by John Lynch, thoose same moves that are fireable offenses for one man are championship-type moves for another. It's illogical. I'm sure he'll post Gettleman's record here as proof though (inconveniently not posted Gettleman's record as Carolina's GM).
Even in the analytics discussion - why was I drawn into it? Because of the flat out lie that Gettleman shuns analytics and didn't use them in Carolina. Again - that is directed more at NGD, but it is yet another instance of people taking quotes out of context and not even doing precursory research to see that a point is full of shit.
Instead of wondering why a poster on a Giants fan board challenges those statements, you should be wondering why exaggeration and hyperbole is used to bash the GM. There are legitimate points when Gettleman hasn't done well (and I have no idea where I've defended his FA moves), but to come on weekly after a loss and have several "Fire Gettleman" threads or have posters who l;iterally say he hasn't done a single thing well it is madness. Hell, even today there was a post saying that Gettleman's drafts have even sucked.
Frustration shouldn't be an excuse for people to sound idiotic and illogical.
2. Keeping Eli (twice) AND drafting a quarterback in 2019 #6 overall
3. Signing Beckham and trading him a year later
That isn't hindsight, because I called all three of them before they happened. I'm just an asshole on a message board and I have had more foresight on the critical decisions than the people running the Giants. How is that not fireable?