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NFT: Mets Notes

CMicks3110 : 11/11/2019 10:30 pm
BVW spoke to the press:

*Mets discussing long-term deal with Wheeler, will see where that goes
*Ramos to be starting catcher, will look for defensive minded vet backup
*will be in the reliever market, Betances/Hudson have been mentioned
*looking to improve CF defense
*expect improvements from Diaz/Familia to be a big part of bullpen success next year
*still not sure what the deal is with Lowrie's legs and no timetable on Cespedes
*unwilling to say if they will go over luxury tax


oh and Pete Alonso wins NY ROY
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RE: Read  
Rory : 11/12/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14676882 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
a fascinating piece about Wheeler and how he could be so much better with better pitch sequencing.. something the Mets apparently graded bottom of the league in. Mickey is gone but Ramos is still here. Something to look for going forward.


I'm not as in depth on pitch sequencing but I will say if you look at Wheeler's last start in the 7th (I think it was VS Miami) he looked unhinged and locked in.

At 29 and injury issues past him, I think he's taken the next step to becoming dominant.
DH in NL  
Rory : 11/12/2019 11:18 am : link
I bring it up again because I feel Brodie's strategy in FA last year anticipating this happening soon.

I keep hearing if approved it could be implemented almost immediately.

That would allow Cano/Ramos to move to DH.

JD/Lowrie to move to 3rd and McNeil go back to his natural position at 2b.

Also could open up trade options for Cespedes
Chilli coming back  
Rory : 11/12/2019 12:40 pm : link
Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Mets are close to a deal to bring back Chili Davis as hitting coach
RE: Chilli coming back  
figgy2989 : 11/12/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14677260 Rory said:
Quote:
Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Mets are close to a deal to bring back Chili Davis as hitting coach


I would assume Beltran had to give the stamp of approval on this, but it is good to have Chilli back. Team definitely took a better approach at the plate once he took over. I mean it was night and day with Rosario. You have to think Chilli had something to do with that.
Definitely support bringing Chili back  
jpkmets : 11/12/2019 12:47 pm : link
Is it confirmed that one of the offers for Betances is from us? He'd be a great lottery ticket acquisition -- doesn't mean he should be counted on though to the exclusion of other bullpen fixes.

We also need starting pitching insurance whether or not we re-sign Wheeler. Can't anticipate a full year of literally no injuries to starting 5 again.

Depth on the entire pitching staff really needs to be the focus here this offseason, imo.
Zero  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 12:50 pm : link
evidence the Mets have an offer out to Betances. From 19 minutes ago

"Dellin Betances is reportedly atop of Van Wagenen's list of relief pitchers. The Mets are taking a look at the former Yankees reliever, according to SNY's Andy Martino. "
The  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 12:53 pm : link
SP depth is horrendous even if Wheeler returns. They have to do a better job than "Hector Santiago is a former all-star"
CF Defense Plus Grandal Question  
Samiam : 11/12/2019 12:57 pm : link
Two things here. Who is available in CF that is much better than Lagares? I would hope they can bring a CF who can bat. And, someone who can stay healthy which Lagares clearly has trouble doing.

With Grandal, is it true that the Mets offered him something like $20 million a year for 3 or 4 years and he passed? Im not happy if they keep Ramos. Its clear that he detracts from what could be very good starting pitching and if Diaz gets it back abs they sign Betances or Hudson a decent bullpen. Why fool with that?
RE: The  
jpkmets : 11/12/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14677296 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
SP depth is horrendous even if Wheeler returns. They have to do a better job than "Hector Santiago is a former all-star"


Completely agree with this take. They also need to decide on whether Lugo is a starting pitcher or a reliever (and gsellman to a lesser extent). I dont mind the lugo to rotation move. He doesnt have the arm heath to seemingly withstand the closer role long term. But that decision either way needs to come quickly as it obviously impacts staff composition as a whole.
RE: CF Defense Plus Grandal Question  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14677305 Samiam said:
Quote:
Two things here. Who is available in CF that is much better than Lagares? I would hope they can bring a CF who can bat. And, someone who can stay healthy which Lagares clearly has trouble doing.

With Grandal, is it true that the Mets offered him something like $20 million a year for 3 or 4 years and he passed? Im not happy if they keep Ramos. Its clear that he detracts from what could be very good starting pitching and if Diaz gets it back abs they sign Betances or Hudson a decent bullpen. Why fool with that?


Lagares is injured again FYI
RE: The  
pjcas18 : 11/12/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14677296 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
SP depth is horrendous even if Wheeler returns. They have to do a better job than "Hector Santiago is a former all-star"


That's part of the reason I think serious consideration should be given to Lugo in the rotation.

Yes, he was the best bullpen arm, but let's face it this season will once again come down to a: starting pitching health and b: bullpen

last year they had A but B was an unmitigated disaster.

if they don't have A, B is irrelevant.

and I believe bullpen arms are more easily obtained than quality starting pitchers.

and don't mean to seem like a broken record, but Dunn, Kay, SWR, would all be really valuable right now.
Grandal  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 2:07 pm : link
reportedly turned down 4 years 60 from the Mets citing it to be below market rate for a top tier C. He wasn't wrong and after making 18.25 with the Brewers it seems like his gamble will have paid off. Hard to see any way he doesn't get "significantly" more than 41.75 million guaranteed (the difference).
I am perfectly ok with the same team along with  
giantsFC : 11/12/2019 2:34 pm : link
some solid, steady (not flashy) relievers added,
a vet no5 starter who doesn't get hurt. Doesn't have to be a big time name
A 1B type defensive catcher who could start daily if needed but better suited as backup.

And I think trading Nimmo of all their players for a decent defensive CF who can adequately play everyday if needed but mostly fill in for Conforto there.

I am not for trading Davis or Conforto. And particularly think its stupid to trade McNeil.
RE: I am perfectly ok with the same team along with  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14677478 giantsFC said:
Quote:
some solid, steady (not flashy) relievers added,
a vet no5 starter who doesn't get hurt. Doesn't have to be a big time name
A 1B type defensive catcher who could start daily if needed but better suited as backup.

And I think trading Nimmo of all their players for a decent defensive CF who can adequately play everyday if needed but mostly fill in for Conforto there.

I am not for trading Davis or Conforto. And particularly think its stupid to trade McNeil.


A vet #5 replacing Wheeler represents a lesser team than the one they put out there last season.
I would absolutely  
pjcas18 : 11/12/2019 2:39 pm : link
trade Davis to an AL team. He's a guy I'm not sure has a position, think of a better hitting Wilmer Flores. Yes, his power bat is legit, but is that really what the Mets need?

And Gimenez has been lights out in AFL and could provide any infield depth needed. If Cespedes comes back the OF is a little crowded and needs a defense first guy for 5th OFer, not another bat.

So, with Davis value is probably peak right now I'd flip him for a player at a position the Mets need more (RP, SP, C, defense first OFer)

I  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 2:45 pm : link
wouldn't even bother talking about Cespedes. The usually overly optimistic Mets weren't even sure he'll play in 2020. ST is only 3 months away, you'd think they would know THAT much if he were close.
RE: I  
pjcas18 : 11/12/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14677513 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wouldn't even bother talking about Cespedes. The usually overly optimistic Mets weren't even sure he'll play in 2020. ST is only 3 months away, you'd think they would know THAT much if he were close.


If they aren't going to talk about Cespedes then they should be willing to exclude his salary from payroll calculations.

I really don't think doing both (not counting on Cespedes and including his salary), but you know the Mets will.

Even without Cespedes though I'd still deal Davis.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 2:51 pm : link
Both citing Jed Lowrie as a reason not to pursue Rendon and then to give a cryptic quote regarding his 2020 health is peak Mets
RE: I  
Rory : 11/12/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14677513 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
wouldn't even bother talking about Cespedes. The usually overly optimistic Mets weren't even sure he'll play in 2020. ST is only 3 months away, you'd think they would know THAT much if he were close.


There has to be some type of contract consideration being taken in account with how many games he's played vs the money owed. There could be an out clause or some type of pro-rated payment where the Mets can re-coup some money.

Maybe the Mets are encouraging him not to play and We just might not know about it.
RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14677532 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Both citing Jed Lowrie as a reason not to pursue Rendon and then to give a cryptic quote regarding his 2020 health is peak Mets


Zack Wheeler's brother "liked" me saying this on twitter... are the Mets being cheap with Zack?
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 4:06 pm : link
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
The Mets have spoken to Fredi Gonzalez about their bench coach opening. Gonzalez is expected to interview with team officials in New York after the GM Meetings. He joins Jerry Narron as a known candidate for the position.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/12/2019 4:10 pm : link
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
The Mets have spoken to Fredi Gonzalez about their bench coach opening. Gonzalez is expected to interview with team officials in New York after the GM Meetings. He joins Jerry Narron as a known candidate for the position.
I get the feeling this offseason is going to be peak mets  
Eric on Li : 11/12/2019 6:19 pm : link
first time manager replacing a first time manager
unrealistic expectations on whoever the pitching coach is to "fix" Diaz & Familia (possibly another first timer)
Wheeler gone via FA ("that's why we got Stroman")

Add in a swap for a declining forming all star like JBJ ("our metrics still rate his glove highly") and a statement of support for Cano ("we think he got on track in September and we're excited to see him back in the middle of the lineup") and it feels about right.

I'd imagine there won't be an extension for Thor. They also seemed to shut down the TC as bench coach rumors pretty quick. So all in all about the exact opposite of what I'd have preferred. The most hopeful I can be right now is they let whoever identified JDFD identify a few more targets like that and they work out.
.  
CMicks3110 : 11/12/2019 6:41 pm : link
Quote:

RE: .
DanMetroMan : 4:00 pm : link : reply
In comment 14677532 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Both citing Jed Lowrie as a reason not to pursue Rendon and then to give a cryptic quote regarding his 2020 health is peak Mets


Zack Wheeler's brother "liked" me saying this on twitter... are the Mets being cheap with Zack?


Dan, sort of asshat here, but I know a guy that has said Wheeler wants back with the Mets, and the Mets are negoatiating with him, ,but we'll see what happens, hot market.

Also heard Betances is real possibility
i would love to be wrong about Wheeler  
Eric on Li : 11/12/2019 6:57 pm : link
and Betances would be a real nice signing.
.  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2019 8:52 am : link
Metsmerized Online
⚾️
@MetsMerized

5m
New Post: Chili Davis, Tom Slater Agree to Multi-Year Deals To Return https://metsmerizedonline.com/?p=306154 #Mets #LGM #LFGM
I'd love to bring Marte in here  
Chris684 : 11/13/2019 9:47 am : link
He is a big league CFer.

What would it cost?
RE: I'd love to bring Marte in here  
Rory : 11/13/2019 11:17 am : link
In comment 14678402 Chris684 said:
Quote:
He is a big league CFer.

What would it cost?


Alot

would rather make a play for Manuel Margot
Mets interviewing  
Rory : 11/13/2019 11:23 am : link
Freddie Gonzalez, Ron Wotus, Jerry Narron for bench coach job.

Outside of bullpen help this is the most critical signing for me.

All candidates look to be great options.
.  
moespree : 11/13/2019 11:32 am : link
I would prefer Ron Wotus from that list.
RE: I'd love to bring Marte in here  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 11:36 am : link
In comment 14678402 Chris684 said:
Quote:
He is a big league CFer.

What would it cost?


Quite a bit. Great contract. His CF metrics are concerning however.
RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14677867 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:


Quote:



RE: .
DanMetroMan : 4:00 pm : link : reply
In comment 14677532 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Both citing Jed Lowrie as a reason not to pursue Rendon and then to give a cryptic quote regarding his 2020 health is peak Mets


Zack Wheeler's brother "liked" me saying this on twitter... are the Mets being cheap with Zack?




Dan, sort of asshat here, but I know a guy that has said Wheeler wants back with the Mets, and the Mets are negoatiating with him, ,but we'll see what happens, hot market.

Also heard Betances is real possibility


That may be so but his brother "liking" that says something.
RE: .  
steve in ky : 11/13/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14677867 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:


Quote:



RE: .
DanMetroMan : 4:00 pm : link : reply
In comment 14677532 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Both citing Jed Lowrie as a reason not to pursue Rendon and then to give a cryptic quote regarding his 2020 health is peak Mets


Zack Wheeler's brother "liked" me saying this on twitter... are the Mets being cheap with Zack?




Dan, sort of asshat here, but I know a guy that has said Wheeler wants back with the Mets, and the Mets are negoatiating with him, ,but we'll see what happens, hot market.

Also heard Betances is real possibility


CMicks, thanks for sharing the information
The Mets  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2019 11:48 am : link
centerfielder should be Mookie Betts





Giants  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 12:09 pm : link
hire Kapler
RE: I get the feeling this offseason is going to be peak mets  
giantsFC : 11/13/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14677849 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
first time manager replacing a first time manager
unrealistic expectations on whoever the pitching coach is to "fix" Diaz & Familia (possibly another first timer)
Wheeler gone via FA ("that's why we got Stroman")

Add in a swap for a declining forming all star like JBJ ("our metrics still rate his glove highly") and a statement of support for Cano ("we think he got on track in September and we're excited to see him back in the middle of the lineup") and it feels about right.

I'd imagine there won't be an extension for Thor. They also seemed to shut down the TC as bench coach rumors pretty quick. So all in all about the exact opposite of what I'd have preferred. The most hopeful I can be right now is they let whoever identified JDFD identify a few more targets like that and they work out.


This post is 100% the most Mets-like outcome and expectations.

You must be a long time fan. Because as optimistic as I am initially, I also feel this will be the exact stories coming out.
Some people say Mets fans  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2019 3:02 pm : link
overrate Wheeler. And I'll admit his seasons are strange, he seems like 2nd half is better, but overall his stats support him being a TOR pitcher, maybe not an ace or a #1, but on the Mets, as the #3, it probably doesn't get too much better in baseball.

Quote:
Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
Zack Wheeler's ranks among qualified MLB starting pitchers over last 2 seasons:

9th - 9.0 fWAR
10th - 3.37 FIP
12th - 377.2 innings
T/4th - 0.86 HR/9
6th - 21.2 Soft Hit%
3rd - 28.3 Hard Hit%
4th - 96.3 Fastball MPH
2nd - 91.1 Slider MPH
3rd - 88.5 Changeup MPH
2:14 PM Nov 13, 2019TweetDeck
RE: Some people say Mets fans  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14679040 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
overrate Wheeler. And I'll admit his seasons are strange, he seems like 2nd half is better, but overall his stats support him being a TOR pitcher, maybe not an ace or a #1, but on the Mets, as the #3, it probably doesn't get too much better in baseball.



Quote:


Michael Mayer
@mikemayerMMO
Zack Wheeler's ranks among qualified MLB starting pitchers over last 2 seasons:

9th - 9.0 fWAR
10th - 3.37 FIP
12th - 377.2 innings
T/4th - 0.86 HR/9
6th - 21.2 Soft Hit%
3rd - 28.3 Hard Hit%
4th - 96.3 Fastball MPH
2nd - 91.1 Slider MPH
3rd - 88.5 Changeup MPH
2:14 PM Nov 13, 2019TweetDeck



And the replacement is a near 100% chance of being worse + the chance Wheeler takes another step forward. Hard to really put together an argument where the Mets are better on paper in 2020 without ZW.
The #1 stat with Wheeler the past 2 years is 60 starts  
Eric on Li : 11/13/2019 3:18 pm : link
he's been durable and good. He has lived up to the AJ Burnett comps we all talked about and dreamed on pretty much since the day he came here for Beltran.

There is 0 excuse for a New York team, trying to "compete", to let him walk for anything less than an exaggerated overpay.
RE: The #1 stat with Wheeler the past 2 years is 60 starts  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14679063 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
he's been durable and good. He has lived up to the AJ Burnett comps we all talked about and dreamed on pretty much since the day he came here for Beltran.

There is 0 excuse for a New York team, trying to "compete", to let him walk for anything less than an exaggerated overpay.


You know whatever he signs for they will act like it was either well out of their range or that they would have matched or surpassed but weren't given a chance to.
I have a guess as to why Girardi wasn't a good fit  
Eric on Li : 11/13/2019 3:45 pm : link
Jon Heyman @JonHeyman
Joe Girardis Phillies deal is for about $11M over 3 years guaranteed (plus the option) so not bad but not quite what Maddon got ($12M for 3)
RE: RE: The #1 stat with Wheeler the past 2 years is 60 starts  
Eric on Li : 11/13/2019 3:47 pm : link
In comment 14679099 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14679063 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


he's been durable and good. He has lived up to the AJ Burnett comps we all talked about and dreamed on pretty much since the day he came here for Beltran.

There is 0 excuse for a New York team, trying to "compete", to let him walk for anything less than an exaggerated overpay.



You know whatever he signs for they will act like it was either well out of their range or that they would have matched or surpassed but weren't given a chance to.


"we had our number for Zack and we think he is a tremendous player, we wish it could have worked out but that's why we got Marcus last year, who was by the way in the discussion for a Cy Young last year before we got him"
I want Wheeler  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2019 3:47 pm : link
back, but I can forgive not signing him if it's because they sign Cole or Strasburg.

LOL.

Seriously, I think the Mets get a "chance to match" here and I doubt they do.

Like others I think the Stroman acquisition gave them cover for not re-signing Wheeler. Still a decent 3 man top to the rotation, but not enough.

But I will try and reserve criticism (unlike with the Cano/Diaz trade) until I see the Mets roster headed in to next year.
Terrifying  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 4:03 pm : link
when you see how similar Brodie's comments about the rotation matchup with his comments last year "Hector Santiago is a former all-star, Walker Lockett and whatever that turds name is I can't recall they lost to the Rangers are both good options".
Hopefully  
pjcas18 : 11/13/2019 4:12 pm : link
Kilome comes back strong and can be considered for a bullpen role (2nd half)?

if they decide he can't start (or they don't want him to start year 1 post TJS)

The smart move is to retain Wheeler and still transition Lugo  
Chris684 : 11/13/2019 4:16 pm : link
to the long man/6th starter and continue to build up the bullpen.

Jake-Thor-Wheeler-Stro-Matz-Lugo is deep and talented.

Then bring in guys like Betances, Pomeranz and Gsellman back from injury.
.  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 4:23 pm : link
Noted NPB writer
@JballAllen
on Shogo Akiyama "Once a terrific defensive center fielder with an above-average arm and very good range, Akiyamas defensive results as tracked by Delta Graphs and Win Shares show a steady decline." Where do I sign! lol
Wotus  
DanMetroMan : 11/13/2019 4:38 pm : link
stays with the Giants
RE: I want Wheeler  
Eric on Li : 11/13/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14679117 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
back, but I can forgive not signing him if it's because they sign Cole or Strasburg.


But I will try and reserve criticism (unlike with the Cano/Diaz trade) until I see the Mets roster headed in to next year.


I'm going to try to do the same, and in fairness if the JDFD trade wasn't a fluke and they can find a few more guys like him that can be a great offseason even without increasing payroll. I'm just braced for what's most likely because we are already seeing the writing on the wall. Wheeler out and a bunch of low cost and flawed arms in, some possibly at the expense of prospects from a system that's already hemorrhaged a lot of depth.

If there was mutual eagerness to resign Wheeler it would have happened in August after they decided to keep him.
Not a Mets note  
pjcas18 : 11/15/2019 12:37 pm : link
but Ben Cherrington rumored to be named Pirates GM.

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