These may very well be the three best players in the NFL. It would be great if the fan base acknowledges it and then maybe management will get the idea and get the next guy like this if he falls in our laps.
When Russell was allegedly available in the off-season many argued he wasn't worth it. Firstly, he was never really available. Only clueless people thought that was serious. he would be worth Barkley and another first.
And recently we had folks here (allstarjim) who doesn't think Lamar jackson is good. He wouldn't trade BArkley for Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb (2 guys we could have had if we dealt the #2 pick for two firsts. I would trade Barkley for Lamar alone straight up. The point is if we acknowledge greatness, the players that make a difference, maybe one day management will see the light.
Jones might turn out fine. He won't be as great as these guys.
they are all mobile, unconventional, play-makers out of structure, take the ball and win games. The Giants model is system QB. It would be nice to get a new age QB. Why do we have to be last to adopt the latest approach. Let's demand better.
so what? why shouldn't we point out what works, what is working, in an effort to make better decisions? the hindsight critique is a joke.. yea let's not look at what is working.
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so what? why shouldn't we point out what works, what is working, in an effort to make better decisions? the hindsight critique is a joke.. yea let's not look at what is working.
Yeah Lamar Jackson is working for the Ravens, but even they passed him up with their first pick.
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In comment 14676566 smshmth8690 said:
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so what? why shouldn't we point out what works, what is working, in an effort to make better decisions? the hindsight critique is a joke.. yea let's not look at what is working.
Yeah Lamar Jackson is working for the Ravens, but even they passed him up with their first pick.
so what? the point is what should we do now? what should we look for in a QB going forward? Where is the NFL going? Where should we go?
If the draft were held today Lamar Jackson would be the first pick.
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In comment 14676568 AndyMilligan said:
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In comment 14676566 smshmth8690 said:
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so what? why shouldn't we point out what works, what is working, in an effort to make better decisions? the hindsight critique is a joke.. yea let's not look at what is working.
Yeah Lamar Jackson is working for the Ravens, but even they passed him up with their first pick.
so what? the point is what should we do now? what should we look for in a QB going forward? Where is the NFL going? Where should we go?
If the draft were held today Lamar Jackson would be the first pick.
OK, so he'd be in Cleveland then.
I get it you don't like Jones, regardless he is the QB on the Giants, and they aren't going to be able to trade him for Jackson, Wilson, or Mahomes, and he will be the QB for the foreseeable future. It's your move, get to your point. If you were GM who would you dump Jones for?
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In comment 14676570 smshmth8690 said:
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In comment 14676568 AndyMilligan said:
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In comment 14676566 smshmth8690 said:
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so what? why shouldn't we point out what works, what is working, in an effort to make better decisions? the hindsight critique is a joke.. yea let's not look at what is working.
Yeah Lamar Jackson is working for the Ravens, but even they passed him up with their first pick.
so what? the point is what should we do now? what should we look for in a QB going forward? Where is the NFL going? Where should we go?
If the draft were held today Lamar Jackson would be the first pick.
OK, so he'd be in Cleveland then.
I get it you don't like Jones, regardless he is the QB on the Giants, and they aren't going to be able to trade him for Jackson, Wilson, or Mahomes, and he will be the QB for the foreseeable future. It's your move, get to your point. If you were GM who would you dump Jones for?
i would like them to think ahead. think about the new world of the nfl. Of course they need to continue with Jones, try to make use of his mobility. Coach him up. I think he is fine. But if there is a QB with next level skills available to them, they need to think about it, maybe as soon as the 2020 draft.
If you wanted to make the case that mobility is key, I'd sub out Mahomes for Deshaun Watson.
Jones has above average mobility for a QB, he's just never going to be confused with Deshaun or Lamar, but that's ok.
I think the RG3 shooting star / fiasco incorrectly turned a lot of people off to the idea that a mobile QB can win. Steve Young did it, Russ did it, Kaep was one play short of doing it, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lamar or Deshaun do it. Mitch Trubisky will not do it lol.
They don't grow on trees. Get a grip.
Also Mahomes isn't as mobile as Wilson or Jackson.
Jones, Mahomes and Deshaun are closer to each other in mobility than either is to Wilson or Jackson.
Mike great post - especially the Mahomes comparison.
I wonder if Ben McAdoo was able to convince the Giants to trade up and select Mahomes, how the dominoes would fall. I am not unhappy with Jones but if McAdoo had Mahomes, how would the Eli transition have gone and McAdoo coached Aaron for a bit. Would he have a more creative offense? It’s a bye week - just thinking of what if’s.
I think we got our mobile qb of the future already.
Come on Jimmy it’s like Christmas. You’ve been good all year and now it’s time to write Santa...don’t blow it!
Might be my favorite thread of the year.
If you wanted to make the case that mobility is key, I'd sub out Mahomes for Deshaun Watson.
Jones has above average mobility for a QB, he's just never going to be confused with Deshaun or Lamar, but that's ok.
I think the RG3 shooting star / fiasco incorrectly turned a lot of people off to the idea that a mobile QB can win. Steve Young did it, Russ did it, Kaep was one play short of doing it, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lamar or Deshaun do it. Mitch Trubisky will not do it lol.
None of those guys belong with Lamar Jackson. Watson/Wilson are mobile QBs, Jackson is a running QB. Wilson averages 5.7 rushes/game, Watson 5.8 rpg, Jackson 10.1 and for reference a stationary QB like Brady averages 2.1 rpg (basically kneel downs and QB sneaks).
Jackson had 2 major concerns: 1) could he get his comp% to a respectable level (so far exceeding all expections here) and 2) could he stay healthy getting 10+ rpg?
For the latter question, the closest analogs are Newton (7.5 rpg) and Vick (~7.5 rpg at his peak). Newton was relatively healthy until the last couple years, missed only 2 games his first 5 seasons, whereas Vick was constantly banged up and missed a few games almost every year. We'll see how Jackson holds up over his career, but so far he's running it considerably more than even these 2.
As for Jones, attempts wise he's between the statues and mobile QBs with 3.6 rpg so far. But his y/a is better than Wilson's and Watson's career marks and his yards/game isn't far off. I don't think it's a stretch to say a better offensive scheme would have Jones getting an additional 1-2 carries/game like we saw against Dallas (6 att/54 yards).
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All they have in common is they're mobile, black, and good. Nor sure what you're getting at at all.
they are all mobile, unconventional, play-makers out of structure, take the ball and win games. The Giants model is system QB. It would be nice to get a new age QB. Why do we have to be last to adopt the latest approach. Let's demand better.
Do you watch Giants games? Jones has these traits too, he just needs to work on ball security and needs an offensive line.
Combine QB arm strength - ( New Window )
So what is the point, besides AndyMilligan thinks all black QB's are alike.
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the 3 best QBs and then our front office will recognize we want great players and find them?
Come on Jimmy it’s like Christmas. You’ve been good all year and now it’s time to write Santa...don’t blow it!
Might be my favorite thread of the year.
Dear Santa - Based on last evening I would like a Russell Wilson and a Jadeveon Clowney. Please deliver to Met Life stadium.
Oh, and a good bottle of 18 year old scotch. That goes to a different address...
What's wrong with what we've got? Put a fucking team around him.
Seriously, has there ever been a worse all around coaching staff than this? Every single guy is a loser except for (maybe) Tolbert.
Don't get yourself all worked up...its a hypothetical thread for christ sake.
While only picking players after our original picks. This is just our first, 1st round selections
2012 - Bobby Wagner
2013 - DeAndre Hopkins
2014 - Aaron Donald
2015 - Marcus Peters
2016 - hmmmmmm - trade up get Conklin?
2017 - Ryan Ramczyk
2018 - Saquon
2019 - Jones
I would fix the o-line with second round picks (only the best of course)
become great but their game plan is going to have to constantly evolve or they will fail(See Josh Freeman).
That would be great!
Jones is closer to the Russell, Mahomes model than they are to Jackson. They are more athletic versions of Aaron Rogers. Great throwers who have great mobility. Jackson is a running QB who uses his legs to gain significant positive yardage much like Carson Wentz was. He’s not Russell or Mahomes.
Go look at RGIII and his early years with WAS.
Every QB produces under Andy Reid (look at Alex Smith and even Matt Moore!)
We can discuss those guys as the best if they are still doing it 2-3 years from now.
But the fumbles stem from 3 sources
1. Poor pocket awareness which he can fix on
2. Immense pressure which we can fix with a better OL for him
3. Holding the ball too long which we can fix by getting players that get seperation quicker.
He'll clean it up. He is an excellent thrower of the ball.
And on those read option plays he should be holding on to it more imo. Could have seen a couple nice gains.
Defense sucks but we should go all out on offense in the draft and free agency.
Need 2 OTs, a center, a # 1 WR and a real TE.
DJ is playing with a significantly worse team in general. Especially his coaching staff & offensive line. People seem to forget the Ravens were a 9-7 team the year prior to drafting Lamar. The Giants were a 5 win team which was skewed by playing 2 backup QBs and 2 third string QBs.
Lamar had 2144 yards from scrimmage with 13 total TDs while completing 58.2% of his passes.
If anyone thought they would be this good they would have been top 5 picks and teams would have been tripping over themselves to get them.
jackson would be a disaster on this team. He is a good player in a great situation. i would pass on him even today because we have no talent around him to work with.
mahomes and Wilson both make their teams better but they both came into the league with talented rosters so the transition was easy.
The Giants talent is as bad as it gets. We have good players at some positions but no great players. Even the ones that have promise to be great are only rookies or 2nd year players. the roster is full of young potentially good players.
None of those QBs would have the type of success with this roster. maybe a few more wins but this team is not a playoff caliber team, way too many holes.
This is Mahomes' mom:
I really don't care about race, but I'm just asking because I don't know what the answer is, but I think it would be weird if people called someone like Mahomes white because he has one white parent, but people often refer to those of mixed race with one white and one black parent as black or African American. In the grand scheme of things, really doesn't matter, but I just find that strange.
I don't care what he is, but Mahomes is the MVP of the league, he's my favorite QB to watch, (Wilson a close second), and he's just remarkable.
To OP, Lamar Jackson has proven he can win in the regular season. Admittedly, he has improved as a passer. I remain pessimistic that he is a championship-caliber franchise QB, because I still don't believe he's as refined enough as a passer that if the legs go, he can still be a winner. If his speed is taken from him, and he has to win from the pocket, can he do that? I don't think he can. To me, that's one criteria for a championship-caliber franchise QB. I appreciate what he is, and he might have flash-in-the-pan success. I'd prefer the Giants pick a QB that is going to lead to sustained success for many years.
For example, Ben Roethlisberger...rarely has a Roethlisberger team not made the playoffs. Same goes for Russell Wilson. His team has been in the playoffs 6 out of 7 seasons and extremely likely to make it 7 of 8. The one miss they still went 9-7. That's what I want...a perennial playoff contender. You can change a lot of parts on a team, but if you REALLY get that QB position right, they will carry you to the playoffs year after year.
Where will Lamar Jackson be in 5, 6, or 7 years? If he's still the amazing athlete he is, he'll be doing just fine and the Ravens will have won a lot of games. If he's not, then I think the Ravens will be looking for another QB.
She's a total MILF.
I'm like, that's his mom?? LOL....not g/f????
I think she looks better now.
Just wondering if you guys have thought about bundling your Mahomes-y and auto?
Lamar had 2144 yards from scrimmage with 13 total TDs while completing 58.2% of his passes.
how about the part where Lamar is going to shatter the NFL record for rushing by a QB?
Go look at RGIII and his early years with WAS.
Every QB produces under Andy Reid (look at Alex Smith and even Matt Moore!)
We can discuss those guys as the best if they are still doing it 2-3 years from now.
Sy, you wouldn't call Mahomes, anything special? After throwing 50TDs and winning the mvp in his first season as a starter? Lamar is beating the best teams in the NFL and going to shatter the QB rushing record. That isn't special? I'm confused what special is.
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He has 2192 yards from scrimmage with 17 total TDs while completing 63% of his passes.
Lamar had 2144 yards from scrimmage with 13 total TDs while completing 58.2% of his passes.
how about the part where Lamar is going to shatter the NFL record for rushing by a QB?
Cool? Nobody is saying he won't.
I was responding to you flat out saying DJ won't turn out to be as great as Lamar Jackson. Which is based on absolutely nothing considering DJ has outproduced Lamar Jackson as a rookie with less dropbacks/touches.
Mahomes had 272 rush yards at 4.5 yards per attempt in 16 games last season.
DJ is averaging 6.5 yards per attempt this year. Only 0.1 yards less per attempt than Lamar this season and 2 yards more than Lamar had per attempt as a rookie.
Mahomes had 272 rush yards at 4.5 yards per attempt in 16 games last season.
DJ is averaging 6.5 yards per attempt this year. Only 0.1 yards less per attempt than Lamar this season and 2 yards more than Lamar had per attempt as a rookie.
I don't think you watch football. Pat Mahomes moves so much better than Daniel Jones it isn't funny. Mahomes senses pressure, evades it as good as anybody and throws on the run - like a champ. Movement is an immense part of Mahomes' game. I can't believe I have to say this.
sheer nonsense
Watson and Jackson are on a completely different level in regard to athleticism compared to everyone else - and they've also been throwing the ball really well this year.