Question about the young corners. Watching Baker and Ballentine it looks like Ballentine has the ability to move outside, how do you think Baker would fare in the slot? Would swapping the two be of any benefit?
"...as I still believe no matter what that a team absolutely has to avoid poor offensive line play and it needs to be priority A if the group ever falters..."
I like to put it this way:
(1) The offensive Center is the brains of the O-line;
(2) The O-line is built around a good starting Center;
(3) If the O-line sucks, the entire offense sucks;
(4) If the offense sucks; the defense never gets off the field;
(5) If the defense doesn't get off the field, the entire team sucks.
Welcome to the New York Giants 2013-2019.
Great write-up. Hopefully, Ballentine and Beal will get more reps Â
Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
and uses it well when pass blocking. However, he didn't get much movement run-blocking and is far more susceptible to a bull rush than speed rush. I would also start him the rest of the way.
I don't understand the design of the running game at all. There are almost no tosses. They're in the shotgun too much. One of the few edge runs I saw involved pulling the tackle and center, who could barely get around the guard because of how they were aligned at the snap. Barkley ended up running into Pulley in the backfield, then having to leap over Gates, who actually made a good block. It was a mess.
The Tate WR screen TD might've been the best executed play the Giants have had all season long.
The Giants' inability to get off of the field on 3rd downs on the opening drive (and most of the season) was embarrassing.
I also noticed Baker's lack of effort on the long Thomas reception down the sideline. He just flat out quit.
and your wife. I have struggled to understand why this coach has made Jones into a pocket passer with an atrocious offensive line. A few designed runs each game but given his mobility and size it seems ridiculous to have him sit there and get killed. How long before the same PTSD that hit Eli affects this QB? Also, might help with a QB with still poor pocket awareness leading to fumbles if he moved a little and could regain some confidence without worrying about the blind side hit.
When you have 2 centers, do you really have any? Â
You indict the coaching staff and I think, agree with most of the board that the Giants coaching from HC on down is horrific. Yes, the defense is awful and he’s the offensive line is awful (Thank you DG) but why doesn’t Jones get to roll out of the pocket, why isn’t Barkley getting the ball in space, why is Bethea still playing even though he should be retired, etc.
Both Gettleman and Shurmur were uninspired choices by Giants ownership and the fans are paying the price.
Shurmur can’t utilize talent- Barkley has regressed Â
As Sy pointed out, Jones running ability isn’t being utilized.
But Saquon came in as being a 3 down RB who will be a Marshall Faulk like weapon in the passing game and can also block.
Saquon is now a liability as a pass blocker and only really gets check down, dump offs. I saw him split wide just once in this game and it was as a decoy as the play was designed to opposite side of field.
2 tackles, a Center....an top end Edge, a FS....and LBers are always welcome.
As long as, A.Bethea is on the field....its like 10 playing against 11.
Centers aren't quarterbacks, you can definitely have two quality centers on a roster.
Or you could be the Giants and have no quality centers.
100% agree with Sy on Tomlinson - they're going to overpay for Williams above and beyond the two picks they gave up for him, and he's always going to be a 'close but not quite' type of guy. That was the most motivated you'll ever see him, in a contract year against his former team that also happens to have an awful OL. And you got a 'pretty good but not great' game from him.
Alvin Kamara: gets the ball in space.
Gurley: gets the ball in space.
The Chiefs RBs--whoever they're using: get the ball in space.
14 year olds playing Madden: know to get the ball to stud, shifty RBs in space.
Derrick Henry: ok, when you have Derrick Henry you can pound the rock. We have Saquon Barkley. Perhaps we should be using him closer to CMC and Kamara than Derrick Henry.
I have felt for a long time that the center is the second most Â
And shouldn’t be judged on his getting sacks alone.
His job is to stop the run, eat up blockers, occupy space and push the pocket back and disrupt the passer.
The question is - what might a real pass rusher like Chase Young at the 2 or 3 pick and/or Yannick Ngakoue as a free agent be freed up to do with Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson occupying those OL up front?
Alvin Kamara: gets the ball in space.
Gurley: gets the ball in space.
The Chiefs RBs--whoever they're using: get the ball in space.
14 year olds playing Madden: know to get the ball to stud, shifty RBs in space.
Derrick Henry: ok, when you have Derrick Henry you can pound the rock. We have Saquon Barkley. Perhaps we should be using him closer to CMC and Kamara than Derrick Henry.
"Stubborn and lack of innovation and adjustments" in referring to Shurmur. That sums up what I have been thinking all year!
The man believes in his system and rarely adjusts while his opponents do.
And shouldn’t be judged on his getting sacks alone.
His job is to stop the run, eat up blockers, occupy space and push the pocket back and disrupt the passer.
The question is - what might a real pass rusher like Chase Young at the 2 or 3 pick and/or Yannick Ngakoue as a free agent be freed up to do with Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson occupying those OL up front?
That nails it. Also, he's not going to get $18-20M like Clowney or the elite pass rushers. He's basically Snacks with the ability to disrupt the QB from the interior of the DL.
Also consider that when we (hopefully) cut Ogletree this offseason, we'll have very little money tied up in the front 7. Depending on what happens with Golden, we'll basically have Williams + rookie deals (Lawrence, Tomlinson, Hill, Carter, etc).
From another vantage point, who.else.do the Giants have Â
GM but then I’d miss his game reviews too much. Thank you.
Lots of people have been criticizing Shurmur for not moving Daniel more. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shurmur started moving Daniel around the pocket now. He seems tuned into/sensitive to the outside noise.
How can you not have a backup prepared to play LT? In ordinary circumstances, of course there's a backup. And then you have the Giants with their rookie hoped-for franchise quarterback out there, with a guy playing LT who has never taken a snap at LT during practice.
I imagine Shurmur didn't want to move Gates from RT after Solder was injured. Ok, fair enough. But they knew Remmers wasn't playing. So who was the backup LT? If Smith, ok, he needs some reps. Something. This is crazy stuff.
Forget about the playcalling, time management, whatever other issues. This one situation indicates ineptitude on a grand scale.
Shurmur has to go at years end. If not, next year will be an absolutely disaster, again.
I thought Gettleman was moving the team in the right direction. I have no confidence any longer. Gettleman comes onboard and prioritize the OL, yes! Giants fans everywhere cheer! But this OL is a complete mess. How could they think Halapio was alright at C? That was freaking nuts! And Pulley is ok too? Good God. The OL depth is miserable.
I've had enough. Really, clean house again Mr. Mara or sell the team.
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
thanks. any reason why the league is moving away from traditional run block schemes? is it more of a dead give away seeing a guard pull that theres a run play?
Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Are you keeping Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff?
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
thanks. any reason why the league is moving away from traditional run block schemes? is it more of a dead give away seeing a guard pull that theres a run play?
I can't say for sure. My guess - a lot of OL that pull don't actually get to their target in time and I think the thought is - you can get a hat on a hat with a more straightforward approach. Still a time and place for those kinds of blocks though
Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Are you keeping Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff?
He should never be a number one or even a number two target for a team in the passing game, but if he is your three or four, he can be big time.
Tate is an example of what is wrong with the direction of this team. What did they pay him? #1 money? For a guy his age and with his game? That was an AWFUL move by a team with massive holes at several key positions.
offenses. Just look at Dallas 3 years ago after Zeke went out and they didn't have any great receivers. Look at Dallas last year after 8 games - 3-5 with Garrett about to be fired, trade a number 1 pick for Cooper and, Boom, offense in gear. Or look at the 2015 Giants, crappy line but great skill players. Give me a few top skill players and good coaching, with the same O-Lines of the past few years, and you'd see much different results. The team desperately needs good coaching!
offenses. Just look at Dallas 3 years ago after Zeke went out and they didn't have any great receivers. Look at Dallas last year after 8 games - 3-5 with Garrett about to be fired, trade a number 1 pick for Cooper and, Boom, offense in gear. Or look at the 2015 Giants, crappy line but great skill players. Give me a few top skill players and good coaching, with the same O-Lines of the past few years, and you'd see much different results. The team desperately needs good coaching!
you're right, but it's crazy how this line has been bad between different coaching staffs and players all together.
RE: RE: RE: I have felt for a long time that the center is the second most Â
important guy on the offense. Our lack of a good center for year's is a big reason the line has been so poor.
Oddly enough, the 49ers have a decent to good offense with Weston Richburg at C.
Richburg stinks
The Niners have countless pieces on that offense including THE MOST innovative offensive mind in football
No argument here, but that's exactly the point - you can manage a few awful to mediocre players and not the best coaching - it's when you get the combo that everything unravels the way it has for the Giants.
Williams will likely demand a much bigger contract because even though the stats aren’t overly impressive, the analytics crowd likes him and they are becoming more and more prominent within personnel circles. I think Tomlinson has value though. I know it is easy to say after what may have been the best game of his career, but there is a lot he can do within different schemes. He is a professional. Works hard, always tries to get better. We want more guys like this around. If I had to choose one because of economics, I am going with Tomlinson.
I agree. Tomlinson makes more economic sense than LW and he is capable of being just as productive. And he's still on his rookie contract for another year at a bargain basement price.
Maybe some pressure around the ends will end up with Williams Â
and Lawrence getting more sacks. They are DT who have to fight through constant double teaming to get there. I thought he played is ass off on every play. Hope they keep him.
Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Are you keeping Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff?
I'll let Sy answer for himself. But in regards to your question and hypothetical, is it common where coaching staffs are retained when a new GM is brought in?
Sy's draft evaluation of Jones is cited every time he fumbles the ball Â
Yet Sy has been nothing but levelheaded when it comes to his fumbling. Unlike many chicken littles here he's not ignoring the good to only focus on the bad, he's focusing on both. If there's anyone that could have cited the fumbles as proof that Sy's less than stellar review of Jones was correct, it's Sy. He doesn't do that. But people will continue to latch onto that review because it fits their narrative.
Alvin Kamara: gets the ball in space.
Gurley: gets the ball in space.
The Chiefs RBs--whoever they're using: get the ball in space.
14 year olds playing Madden: know to get the ball to stud, shifty RBs in space.
Derrick Henry: ok, when you have Derrick Henry you can pound the rock. We have Saquon Barkley. Perhaps we should be using him closer to CMC and Kamara than Derrick Henry.
This was the fear of drafting him, particularly at #2. How was going to be deployed?
If you are going to take him, the entire organization has to be on board with a philosophy and style of play where you are gearing and designing your entire offense to maximize his abilities. If you are not going to do that, picking him makes no sense.
It's possible Gettleman had one vision for how to use Barkley (old power 1990's style) and Shurmur had another (think of Brian Westbrook).
Once there is a clash (and it sure appears to be based on usage), you have a problem.
So now as we have seen for 2 years, the offense has never been centered around him. There never was an organizational plan. Most of the passes to him are more out of desperation short throws hoping he can bail them out, thus inflating his reception totals as opposed to exploiting specific matchups with LB's and safeties.
That is not happening and has not happened for 2 years. After 8 games last year, the coached said he realized he needed to give Barkley the ball more. Isn't that why he was drafted #2 overall???
If you figure an RB has a 6 year prime where you get his best, they have already wasted 33% of it. After next season, you know his people will be talking contract renewal.
It's an ugly habit for bad coaches to fit a player to scheme Â
He should never be a number one or even a number two target for a team in the passing game, but if he is your three or four, he can be big time.
Tate is an example of what is wrong with the direction of this team. What did they pay him? #1 money? For a guy his age and with his game? That was an AWFUL move by a team with massive holes at several key positions.
That's not #1 WR money, it's about average for a #2 or top of the market slot WR money. That's one signing I don't think was as bad as people make it out to be, they needed to stabalize the unit after shipping off OBJ. The money just seemed bigger than it was because of how outrageous the WR market has been in recent years (see Paul Richardson, Adam Humphries, Sammy Watkins, etc).
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
thanks. any reason why the league is moving away from traditional run block schemes? is it more of a dead give away seeing a guard pull that theres a run play?
I can't say for sure. My guess - a lot of OL that pull don't actually get to their target in time and I think the thought is - you can get a hat on a hat with a more straightforward approach.
My simple-minded interpretation, correct me if I am wrong, Sy:
Defenses are now built more on speed than in the old days, so slower developing power runs don't work the way they used to.
But one disagreement. I know he will cost more money but Leonard Wiliams is a far superior football player then Tomlinson. IMO, Tomilinson is a JAG.He doesn't impact the game at all. The Jet game was his best because their o-line is as crap as ours. He's mediocre against the run and lacks any burst or quickness to get to the quarterback. The Giants would be crazy to let Williams walk to keep Tomlinson. Oh, one more thing, they're about the same age.
Good to see you are high on Peppers. I am totally in agreement with the shotgun. I have no clue as to why Shurmur is doing this. Jones with movement puts added pressure on the secondary and LB coverage which would help with creating more separation imo. What about a throwback screen to Barkley or utilizing 2 backs? Something.
I think Tomlinson has a future. They have a lot of money and they may be able to squeeze him in. DG has the makings of a outstanding interior with depth. To win the NFC East they have to stop the run. This off-season he hits Safety, Edge and ILB.
The line will be almost new in two years imo. Hernandez and four new starters.
sy stated in the review that darnold has 29 turnovers Â
"...as I still believe no matter what that a team absolutely has to avoid poor offensive line play and it needs to be priority A if the group ever falters..."
I like to put it this way:
(1) The offensive Center is the brains of the O-line;
(2) The O-line is built around a good starting Center;
(3) If the O-line sucks, the entire offense sucks;
(4) If the offense sucks; the defense never gets off the field;
(5) If the defense doesn't get off the field, the entire team sucks.
Welcome to the New York Giants 2013-2019.
I don't understand the design of the running game at all. There are almost no tosses. They're in the shotgun too much. One of the few edge runs I saw involved pulling the tackle and center, who could barely get around the guard because of how they were aligned at the snap. Barkley ended up running into Pulley in the backfield, then having to leap over Gates, who actually made a good block. It was a mess.
The Tate WR screen TD might've been the best executed play the Giants have had all season long.
The Giants' inability to get off of the field on 3rd downs on the opening drive (and most of the season) was embarrassing.
I also noticed Baker's lack of effort on the long Thomas reception down the sideline. He just flat out quit.
As long as, A.Bethea is on the field....its like 10 playing against 11.
Both Gettleman and Shurmur were uninspired choices by Giants ownership and the fans are paying the price.
But Saquon came in as being a 3 down RB who will be a Marshall Faulk like weapon in the passing game and can also block.
Saquon is now a liability as a pass blocker and only really gets check down, dump offs. I saw him split wide just once in this game and it was as a decoy as the play was designed to opposite side of field.
Shurmur minimizes talent.
As long as, A.Bethea is on the field....its like 10 playing against 11.
Centers aren't quarterbacks, you can definitely have two quality centers on a roster.
Or you could be the Giants and have no quality centers.
100% agree with Sy on Tomlinson - they're going to overpay for Williams above and beyond the two picks they gave up for him, and he's always going to be a 'close but not quite' type of guy. That was the most motivated you'll ever see him, in a contract year against his former team that also happens to have an awful OL. And you got a 'pretty good but not great' game from him.
Gurley: gets the ball in space.
The Chiefs RBs--whoever they're using: get the ball in space.
14 year olds playing Madden: know to get the ball to stud, shifty RBs in space.
Derrick Henry: ok, when you have Derrick Henry you can pound the rock. We have Saquon Barkley. Perhaps we should be using him closer to CMC and Kamara than Derrick Henry.
His job is to stop the run, eat up blockers, occupy space and push the pocket back and disrupt the passer.
The question is - what might a real pass rusher like Chase Young at the 2 or 3 pick and/or Yannick Ngakoue as a free agent be freed up to do with Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson occupying those OL up front?
Gurley: gets the ball in space.
The Chiefs RBs--whoever they're using: get the ball in space.
14 year olds playing Madden: know to get the ball to stud, shifty RBs in space.
Derrick Henry: ok, when you have Derrick Henry you can pound the rock. We have Saquon Barkley. Perhaps we should be using him closer to CMC and Kamara than Derrick Henry.
+1,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The man believes in his system and rarely adjusts while his opponents do.
His job is to stop the run, eat up blockers, occupy space and push the pocket back and disrupt the passer.
The question is - what might a real pass rusher like Chase Young at the 2 or 3 pick and/or Yannick Ngakoue as a free agent be freed up to do with Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Dalvin Tomlinson occupying those OL up front?
That nails it. Also, he's not going to get $18-20M like Clowney or the elite pass rushers. He's basically Snacks with the ability to disrupt the QB from the interior of the DL.
Also consider that when we (hopefully) cut Ogletree this offseason, we'll have very little money tied up in the front 7. Depending on what happens with Golden, we'll basically have Williams + rookie deals (Lawrence, Tomlinson, Hill, Carter, etc).
Williams,Dexter....with the addition of a stud DE/Edge ....starts to develop the mis-match/leverage a team needs...
Oddly enough, the 49ers have a decent to good offense with Weston Richburg at C.
Lots of people have been criticizing Shurmur for not moving Daniel more. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shurmur started moving Daniel around the pocket now. He seems tuned into/sensitive to the outside noise.
How can you not have a backup prepared to play LT? In ordinary circumstances, of course there's a backup. And then you have the Giants with their rookie hoped-for franchise quarterback out there, with a guy playing LT who has never taken a snap at LT during practice.
I imagine Shurmur didn't want to move Gates from RT after Solder was injured. Ok, fair enough. But they knew Remmers wasn't playing. So who was the backup LT? If Smith, ok, he needs some reps. Something. This is crazy stuff.
Forget about the playcalling, time management, whatever other issues. This one situation indicates ineptitude on a grand scale.
Shurmur has to go at years end. If not, next year will be an absolutely disaster, again.
I thought Gettleman was moving the team in the right direction. I have no confidence any longer. Gettleman comes onboard and prioritize the OL, yes! Giants fans everywhere cheer! But this OL is a complete mess. How could they think Halapio was alright at C? That was freaking nuts! And Pulley is ok too? Good God. The OL depth is miserable.
I've had enough. Really, clean house again Mr. Mara or sell the team.
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
Quote:
important guy on the offense. Our lack of a good center for year's is a big reason the line has been so poor.
Oddly enough, the 49ers have a decent to good offense with Weston Richburg at C.
Richburg stinks
The Niners have countless pieces on that offense including THE MOST innovative offensive mind in football
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Quote:
is our offensive line running a vanilla scheme?
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
thanks. any reason why the league is moving away from traditional run block schemes? is it more of a dead give away seeing a guard pull that theres a run play?
Quote:
Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Are you keeping Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff?
Quote:
In comment 14677422 Platos said:
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is our offensive line running a vanilla scheme?
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
thanks. any reason why the league is moving away from traditional run block schemes? is it more of a dead give away seeing a guard pull that theres a run play?
I can't say for sure. My guess - a lot of OL that pull don't actually get to their target in time and I think the thought is - you can get a hat on a hat with a more straightforward approach. Still a time and place for those kinds of blocks though
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In comment 14676986 Dnew15 said:
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Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Are you keeping Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff?
If up to me. No
Tate is an example of what is wrong with the direction of this team. What did they pay him? #1 money? For a guy his age and with his game? That was an AWFUL move by a team with massive holes at several key positions.
you're right, but it's crazy how this line has been bad between different coaching staffs and players all together.
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In comment 14677221 Go Terps said:
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important guy on the offense. Our lack of a good center for year's is a big reason the line has been so poor.
Oddly enough, the 49ers have a decent to good offense with Weston Richburg at C.
Richburg stinks
The Niners have countless pieces on that offense including THE MOST innovative offensive mind in football
No argument here, but that's exactly the point - you can manage a few awful to mediocre players and not the best coaching - it's when you get the combo that everything unravels the way it has for the Giants.
I agree. Tomlinson makes more economic sense than LW and he is capable of being just as productive. And he's still on his rookie contract for another year at a bargain basement price.
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In comment 14676986 Dnew15 said:
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Let's say Mara fires DG and Giants ownership interviewed you for the GM job. Mara stats to you during the interview that he doesn't expect you to fix the team in one off season and realizes he's been meddling too much with GM responsibilities. He asks you tell him your first 3 moves as GM to start the turn around...what would they be? Let's assume the off season started today.
Good question. A lot of angles but I will keep this short and simple:
Sign the top OC or OT you can in free agency. Similar to when NYG signed Kareem McKenzie in 2005. Doesn't have to be a LT. Go for the trustworthy RT or the OC. There may be some teams letting go an expensive LT (Niners - Staley / Redskins - Williams) that would be worth looking at.
Sign a proven, multiple year productive pass rusher. This COULD be Markus Golden but I am thinking more along the lines of Yannick Ngakoue from JAC. If he reaches the market, you have to go get him. Even if you have to overpay. While the QB is on the rookie deal and with Manning/Beckham off the books, you can easily afford this.
My third FA would be whatever position along the OL I didn't fill in Part 1. If it is a second-tier FA, that is fine. It is an improvement over what NYG has and it allows them to go in to the draft and take the best pass rusher or OL that is there.
Are you keeping Shurmur and the rest of the coaching staff?
I'll let Sy answer for himself. But in regards to your question and hypothetical, is it common where coaching staffs are retained when a new GM is brought in?
Gurley: gets the ball in space.
The Chiefs RBs--whoever they're using: get the ball in space.
14 year olds playing Madden: know to get the ball to stud, shifty RBs in space.
Derrick Henry: ok, when you have Derrick Henry you can pound the rock. We have Saquon Barkley. Perhaps we should be using him closer to CMC and Kamara than Derrick Henry.
This was the fear of drafting him, particularly at #2. How was going to be deployed?
If you are going to take him, the entire organization has to be on board with a philosophy and style of play where you are gearing and designing your entire offense to maximize his abilities. If you are not going to do that, picking him makes no sense.
It's possible Gettleman had one vision for how to use Barkley (old power 1990's style) and Shurmur had another (think of Brian Westbrook).
Once there is a clash (and it sure appears to be based on usage), you have a problem.
So now as we have seen for 2 years, the offense has never been centered around him. There never was an organizational plan. Most of the passes to him are more out of desperation short throws hoping he can bail them out, thus inflating his reception totals as opposed to exploiting specific matchups with LB's and safeties.
That is not happening and has not happened for 2 years. After 8 games last year, the coached said he realized he needed to give Barkley the ball more. Isn't that why he was drafted #2 overall???
If you figure an RB has a 6 year prime where you get his best, they have already wasted 33% of it. After next season, you know his people will be talking contract renewal.
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He should never be a number one or even a number two target for a team in the passing game, but if he is your three or four, he can be big time.
Tate is an example of what is wrong with the direction of this team. What did they pay him? #1 money? For a guy his age and with his game? That was an AWFUL move by a team with massive holes at several key positions.
That's not #1 WR money, it's about average for a #2 or top of the market slot WR money. That's one signing I don't think was as bad as people make it out to be, they needed to stabalize the unit after shipping off OBJ. The money just seemed bigger than it was because of how outrageous the WR market has been in recent years (see Paul Richardson, Adam Humphries, Sammy Watkins, etc).
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In comment 14677422 Platos said:
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is our offensive line running a vanilla scheme?
i ask because every game i like to focus on what the OL is doing and it seems like we run no counters, traps, stretch plays, etc. it all seems like they're pass blocking even on running plays.
They do less pulling / trapping than the average but it isn't by much. That is actually becoming less and less common in the league.
thanks. any reason why the league is moving away from traditional run block schemes? is it more of a dead give away seeing a guard pull that theres a run play?
I can't say for sure. My guess - a lot of OL that pull don't actually get to their target in time and I think the thought is - you can get a hat on a hat with a more straightforward approach.
My simple-minded interpretation, correct me if I am wrong, Sy:
Defenses are now built more on speed than in the old days, so slower developing power runs don't work the way they used to.
I think Tomlinson has a future. They have a lot of money and they may be able to squeeze him in. DG has the makings of a outstanding interior with depth. To win the NFC East they have to stop the run. This off-season he hits Safety, Edge and ILB.
The line will be almost new in two years imo. Hernandez and four new starters.
so far jones has 11 fumbles and 8 ints for 19 total turnovers through 8 games. he is on pace to set a record here. that is insane.
i know the apologists will say nothing to see here, or blame barkley, or the offensive line, or shurmur, or anyone else but jones.
but right now, no other quarterback in the league is turning the ball over as much as jones is.
so far jones has 11 fumbles and 8 ints for 19 total turnovers through 8 games. he is on pace to set a record here. that is insane.
i know the apologists will say nothing to see here, or blame barkley, or the offensive line, or shurmur, or anyone else but jones.
but right now, no other quarterback in the league is turning the ball over as much as jones is.
If he is still turning the ball over at this rate in 2 years, he will be out too