NFT: Yankees GM meeting notes thread

In comment 14677471 Dunedin81 said:

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Sure, end up like the Red Sox where you've got holes to fill and fuck-nothing on the farm to fill it with, and that's after just a single year of those penalties.

Your'e one of (if own the) best posters on the Yankee threads, but that's just an awful take.

The Red Sox penalty for going over the tax and winning the 2018 World Series was to move back 10 spots in the draft. You can't seriously be arguing that's why their farm system sucks?

I'm sure most Yankees fans would be happy to trade a WS in 2020 for moving back 10 spots in the draft the following year.

but the notion that "it's just 10 picks" or "it's just a couple draft picks and some pool money" (for signing free agents) is short-sighted. NYY is a well-run team that has made it to the ALCS twice in three years. I trust them to balance short term needs with the aim of staying competitive over the next several years. Teams that have failed to balance those imperatives have had a short stay at the top.

and that they're going to pursue Wheeler or MadBum. Wheeler makes some sense, he's trending in the right direction and he may have some ceiling left. MadBum is trending in the opposite direction, he's a fly ball pitcher with a homerun problem used to playing half his games in a pitcher's park. That would be a terrible investment, and that's not even accounting for the potential personality mismatch with him and NYC.

here's a pretty amazing video with absolute proof that they were cheating. As soon as the catcher calls for a change up you can hear two loud bangs coming from near Astros dugout. Caught red-handed.
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In comment 14677542 Dunedin81 said:

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but the notion that "it's just 10 picks" or "it's just a couple draft picks and some pool money" (for signing free agents) is short-sighted. NYY is a well-run team that has made it to the ALCS twice in three years. I trust them to balance short term needs with the aim of staying competitive over the next several years. Teams that have failed to balance those imperatives have had a short stay at the top.

Agreed. However, they made some really poor trades for starters. The issue was their inability to develop starters of their own - much like ours to a degree.

In comment 14677587 Dunedin81 said:

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and that they're going to pursue Wheeler or MadBum. Wheeler makes some sense, he's trending in the right direction and he may have some ceiling left. MadBum is trending in the opposite direction, he's a fly ball pitcher with a homerun problem used to playing half his games in a pitcher's park. That would be a terrible investment, and that's not even accounting for the potential personality mismatch with him and NYC.

Hope Klapisch is wrong.

but the Astros organization has few friends at this point. Part of it is envy, but part of it is a sense that they've toed the line between seeking out competitive advantages and outright cheating for awhile now.

Wheeler is the eternal tease who ultimately ends up being right around league average, and he's not young anymore. Bumgarner in YS would be a disaster.

FWIW, Kay says he doesn't think they will sign either Cole or Strasburg.
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In comment 14677542 Dunedin81 said:

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but the notion that "it's just 10 picks" or "it's just a couple draft picks and some pool money" (for signing free agents) is short-sighted. NYY is a well-run team that has made it to the ALCS twice in three years. I trust them to balance short term needs with the aim of staying competitive over the next several years. Teams that have failed to balance those imperatives have had a short stay at the top.

And for that they get a participation trophy. First decade since Babe Ruth got to NY without a WS championship.

This is not a small market team; if you think you are close, you bite the bullet and go get the piece or two you need to go over the top. There is no "window". The window opens and closes every season. You never know when the players you count on get hurt (see Judge), or have a down year (see Betts) so you have to go for it. Do the Yankees win it this year if they had made the Greinke deal or Bauer or made offered a deal with the Nats for Strasburg(who were sucking pond water at one point this season and may have been enticed to deal)?

if he's a 3.80-4.30 ERA guy who throws the odd gem I think you can take it and run with it. The Mets were a below average fielding team, so there's a decent chance an average or potentially better (if healthy) Yankees team could improve on those numbers (his 2019 BABIP of .311 was a little high for him though not egregiously so). His BB rate is trending in the right direction. He'll get overpaid, but so will everyone on the open market.

even if you get that out of Greinke, and you may not in pinstripes, does that put you over the top? Does Bauer? Not with what he did after the trade. Viewed at the time of the trade, the Gray trade was a good deal from an NYY perspective, as was the Paxton deal. One turned into a disaster and the other hopefully not. We can parse through and try to find the common threads in success and failure with big money signs and marquee trades, but it's at best an educated guess.

Fully in favor of signing if Cole doesn't happen.

But his actual production just isn't anything special.

In comment 14677742 Greg from LI said:

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But his actual production just isn't anything special.

Pitching for the Mets probably has something to do with that. They’ve had mostly terrible defense and until this season, mostly bad offenses. Oh, and inept managers.

I think Wheeler will flourish with a change of scenery

Who was the last pitcher to come to the Yankees and be better than he was for his previous team? Aaron Small?

In comment 14677763 Greg from LI said:

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Who was the last pitcher to come to the Yankees and be better than he was for his previous team? Aaron Small?

Nice comparison. deGrom is only the best pitcher in baseball.

Who should I compare him to?

In comment 14677769 Greg from LI said:

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Who should I compare him to?

I’ve never heard one person on this board say he was elite. That’s just you making shit up.

I wasn't told by one of the resident FIP fetishists that his underlying numbers are actually awesome.

super analytical pitching coach and changed their pitching department for better analytics. Wheeler has good stuff, very good stuff and so did Cole when he left Pittsburgh for Houston.
Now I don't know if the new guy and the staff can do for Wheeler what Houston did for Cole(and Verlander), but maybe they can.

Tesla and Homer - the Yanks have a good system, even after all the trades because they were smart with their trades and protected their draft slots. While I would love to have Cole or Strasburg, but you have to remember that Judge, Sanchez, Torres eventually will be getting paid, sooner than later.
You make decent points that the Yanks should be using their monetary muscle to get the top players. But they could end up with a $300+ mill payroll and who knows what happens to their draft and IFA monet down the road.

I'm excited about the new Driveline era of Yankees pitching instruction too but, until we see the results, I'm going to be fairly sanguine about it.

fan who hopes they keep Wheeler (know they won't). He's AJ Burnett-esque (and a bit of a prick/dumbass) but the best is yet to come.. at least for the next 2-3 seasons.

In comment 14677799 Greg from LI said:

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I'm excited about the new Driveline era of Yankees pitching instruction too but, until we see the results, I'm going to be fairly sanguine about it.

Eh, just threw it out there...I'm certain that they hired these guys to get someone like Wheeler(who is underperforming) and get the best of him.

Aaron Judge
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Former Houston Astros pitcher Mike Fiers told The Athletic that the team used a camera in center field during their championship season in 2017. https://es.pn/2NGjjON

Why give it to the manager that handed the other his lunch all year(I know PS doesn't count). And the small market little engine that could arguement is BS when half our payroll spends the year on the IL.

In comment 14677862 Stu11 said:

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Why give it to the manager that handed the other his lunch all year(I know PS doesn't count). And the small market little engine that could argument is BS when half our payroll spends the year on the IL.

There was no doubt in my mind that Baldelli would win - just because he wasn't managing the Yankees...he is worthy because he did a great job with the Twins. But did he manage better than Boone with 30 starters on IL(well you know the story.

In comment 14677885 section125 said:

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In comment 14677862 Stu11 said: Quote: Why give it to the manager that handed the other his lunch all year(I know PS doesn't count). And the small market little engine that could argument is BS when half our payroll spends the year on the IL. There was no doubt in my mind that Baldelli would win - just because he wasn't managing the Yankees...he is worthy because he did a great job with the Twins. But did he manage better than Boone with 30 starters8 on IL(well you know the story.

Absolutely. In my life I can't remember a Yankee winning a post season award that was tightly contested. Ever.

Judge is the real MLB as far as I'm concerned. He should have won in the first damned place.

In comment 14677919 Greg from LI said:

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Judge is the real MLB as far as I'm concerned. He should have won in the first damned place.

Damned right. Not only should they force that cheating scum to hand over the award, they should make him do it on national television

from the Reds

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Tesla and Homer - the Yanks have a good system, even after all the trades because they were smart with their trades and protected their draft slots.

That's just not true. The Yankees farm system was not based on the success of their first round picks. It was based on guys they signed internationally, mid-round picks that developed and guys they traded for. In fact with one notable exception the Yankees have gotten nothing from their first round picks:

Take a look at their first round picks going back to 1995.

2018 Anthony Seigler catcher Cartersville high school
2017 Clark Schmidt RHP Chaminade College Prep
2016 Blake Rutherford OF Chaminade College Prep (West Hills, Calif.) 18
2015 James Kaprielian RHP UCLA 16
2015 Kyle Holder SS San Diego 30
2013 Aaron Judge OF Fresno State 32
2013 Ian Clarkin LHP Madison High School, San Diego, Calif. 33
2013 Eric Jagielo 3B Notre Dame 26
2012 Ty Hensley RHP Edmond Santa Fe (Okla.) High School 30
2010 Cito Culver SS Irondequoit HS, Rochester, N.Y. 32
2009 Slade Heathcott OF Texas HS, Texarkana, Texas 29
2008 Gerrit Cole RHP Orange (Calif.) Lutheran H.S. 28
2007 Andrew Brackman RHP North Carolina State 30
2006 Ian Kennedy RHP Southern California 21
2005 Carl Henry SS Putnam City HS (OK) 17
2004 Philip Hughes RHP Foothill HS, Santa Ana, CA 23
2003 Eric Duncan 3B Seton Hall Prep (NJ) 27
2001 John-Ford Griffin OF Florida State U 23
2000 David Parrish C Yorba Linda, CA 28
1999 David Walling RHP U. of Arkansas 27
1998 Andrew Brown OF Richmond, IN 24
1997 *-Tyrell Godwin OF Elizabethtown, NC 24
1996 Eric Milton LHP U of Maryland 20
1995 Shea Morenz OF U of Texas 27

In comment 14677025 Matt in SGS said:

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and the Yankees are not run the way the George did it in the past, but I have a feeling the Yankees are going to be very aggressive this offseason because they know they are in their championship window right now. I think they will land one of Cole or Strausburg and will start to trade off some of their other prospects who are on the cusp of losing value for other pieces in the pen. If the Yankees are able to land Cole or Strausburg (particularly Cole because he would take him from Houston), they are the prohibitive favorites to win the World Series.

My thoughts as well.

from the Tampa Bay writers.

In fact, he only got 2 of a possible 8 first place votes from writers of the other AL East teams.

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In comment 14678055 Tesla said:

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Quote: Tesla and Homer - the Yanks have a good system, even after all the trades because they were smart with their trades and protected their draft slots. That's just not true. The Yankees farm system was not based on the success of their first round picks. It was based on guys they signed internationally, mid-round picks that developed and guys they traded for. In fact with one notable exception the Yankees have gotten nothing from their first round picks: Take a look at their first round picks going back to 1995. 2018 Anthony Seigler catcher Cartersville high school 2017 Clark Schmidt RHP Chaminade College Prep 2016 Blake Rutherford OF Chaminade College Prep (West Hills, Calif.) 18 2015 James Kaprielian RHP UCLA 16 2015 Kyle Holder SS San Diego 30 2013 Aaron Judge OF Fresno State 32 2013 Ian Clarkin LHP Madison High School, San Diego, Calif. 33 2013 Eric Jagielo 3B Notre Dame 26 2012 Ty Hensley RHP Edmond Santa Fe (Okla.) High School 30 2010 Cito Culver SS Irondequoit HS, Rochester, N.Y. 32 2009 Slade Heathcott OF Texas HS, Texarkana, Texas 29 2008 Gerrit Cole RHP Orange (Calif.) Lutheran H.S. 28 2007 Andrew Brackman RHP North Carolina State 30 2006 Ian Kennedy RHP Southern California 21 2005 Carl Henry SS Putnam City HS (OK) 17 2004 Philip Hughes RHP Foothill HS, Santa Ana, CA 23

Thanks for that. Now, how many of those guys were traded for players that were either MLB players or played part in trades that brought players that played on the Yankees.

As to the Yanks, Judge, Kennedy, Hughes played for the Yanks. Kaprielian, Clarkin, Jagielo and Rutherford were pieces in trades. Schmidt and Siegler are still in the system with a future.

And those are the ones I know about. And for whatever reason some of the pitchers did not develop because of a weakness in the system. Some teams are better at developing players(Rays, Dodgers, Braves). I think Cash is working hard to improve the system.
But I'm not dismissing your point, it has some merit. Bird in hand is worth two or three in the farm system .

In comment 14678230 section125 said:

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Bird in hand is worth two or three in the farm system .

Bird hasn't worked out as hoped, but injuries are unpredictable.

their track record with first rounders is pretty bad. Only a handful have made it to the bigs and in the last ten years only one (Judge) has done anything once he got there. But their overall track record with draft picks is pretty solid, comparable to or better than teams picking higher with more picks and pool money. And that's the other thing worth remembering about first rounders, the pool money they bring with them is very useful. 2013, the year of three first rounders, brought Judge of course, but it also brought Caleb Smith, Dustin Fowler, Nestor Cortes, Nick Rumbelow, Tyler Webb, and Tyler Wade as big leaguers. Even if nobody else makes the bigs (and a handful of other guys have at least a fighting chance), seven big leaguers from one draft is a very good outcome.

In comment 14678271 Milton said:

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In comment 14678230 section125 said: Quote: Bird in hand is worth two or three in the farm system . Bird hasn't worked out as hoped, but injuries are unpredictable.

Milton, it is a saying, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush....

but BA's NYY Top 10 is always a good read. A few surprises as to who is in (Peraza, for one) and who isn't (Florial in particular) but the scouting reports are impressive.
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hitting coach last year. I guess he didn’t bring the trash can and video camera with him. Most of the IFA’s had a bad year last year.

Heard some of Cashman’s comment on Fatso’s show, lots of touch and feelie stuff, and doesn’t sound like he intends on making big splashes.

In comment 14679155 Jim in Hoboken said:

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hitting coach last year. I guess he didn’t bring the trash can and video camera with him. Most of the IFA’s had a bad year last year. Heard some of Cashman’s comment on Fatso’s show, lots of touch and feelie stuff, and doesn’t sound like he intends on making big splashes.

I got a different impression. He sounded more to me like he was reluctantly ready to say goodbye to guys like Didi and Gardner, which tells me that he plans on accepting some austerity in filling out the lineup in order to make an earnest attempt at Cole.

Just my read.

That was discussed, and it seems to have paid SOME dividends (Canaan Smith, for one). But exactly what it means for hitting development is as much educated guess as anything else. Virtually no hitters had in-season promotions last year (contra pitchers, where several advanced one or even two levels). Presumably that's a function of the hitting coordinator, but who knows?

In comment 14679179 Dunedin81 said:

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That was discussed, and it seems to have paid SOME dividends (Canaan Smith, for one). But exactly what it means for hitting development is as much educated guess as anything else. Virtually no hitters had in-season promotions last year (contra pitchers, where several advanced one or even two levels). Presumably that's a function of the hitting coordinator, but who knows?

I think it's also a function of the fact that the hitters in the system are almost exclusively J2 kids that they challenge with some (appropriately, IMV) aggressive assignments. These are really young kids, and 2018 could easily be just a bump in the road, non-linear progression, etc.

Norris was using new hitting instructions as an excuse for a lot of the hitters.

Granted, Dune is more of the glass is half full guy on the system whereas I am more of where is the fucking glass guy....

It’s mighty interesting they’ve made a lot of changes to the coaching staff. Maybe they should look at Oppenheimer and the scouts instead.

Who are in the BA top 10 for us BTW?

Manager of the Year since Torre won in 1998. (125 wins total that year).
I actually thought Cash was going to win this year.

I've complained about hitting development (or at least pointed out the stark difference in outcomes) for a couple years. A lot of stagnation, even among some of the elite guys like Florial but especially among middling or carrying tool guys.

Cole, I doubt he shows enthusiasm. I just don't see it happening as much as I'd like it.

depending on a few players

I think balance and tons of depth are what we are going to see for the next five years.

Balance as in contact and power hitters. Fastball and variety pitchers in the starting ranks. Lots more emphasis on defensively capable players.

And patience. Lots of Yankee "names" at all levels need to re prove in late spring and up until the deadline.

I don't think we see this years Death Star until July