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Rewatched the Jets game - Keyed in on LWill and Gates

Saos1n : 11/12/2019 11:34 am
I’m almost done with the 1st half. Really impressive displays by both, thus far.

Nick Gates didn’t disappoint in his first start. I expected him to look out of place and look small. While the Jets edge rushers aren’t overly impressive, he played stout at the point of attack. Handled the bull rush really well. I’m guessing PFF is crediting him with a pressure on the Daniel Jones fumble in the 2nd quarter, but that wasn’t really on Gates. The ball rolled back to a spot where Gates wasn’t really blocking for. If the snap was handled properly, Gates had his edge blocked well, to create a clean pocket.

Seem to be a few miscommunication issues between he and Zietler, but that’s to be expected. He also had some good hustle plays where he continued to block his man in the ground.

There were a few plays late in the 1st half that he started to lose his technique when the defender got inside of his pads. Seemed to dip his head a bit, like flowers used to. Those breakdowns seemed to be few and far between, though.

Really hope they allow him to start the rest of the season. Let him get some reps and see what we have in him.

Leonard Williams is really impressive. He’s got a great first step. Really quick. Can’t really be blocked 1on1, either. Shows good hand placement and quickly adjusts from beating his man, to finding out the ball and gets after it, nicely. He and Lawrence are going to be a lot of fun to watch, going forward, if the Giants lock him up long term.

Anyone else have any thoughts?
Williams is our best DLmen....and good get, if we can keep  
George from PA : 11/12/2019 11:37 am : link
OL is a mess.....i expected so much better
I didn't key on Gates too much  
Johnny5 : 11/12/2019 11:38 am : link
But I liked what I saw. Except I did feel bad when he tried to celebrate with Tate on his TD and Tate basically ignored him... lol

I watch the Jets a bit and I have always liked Williams. I was surprised when the move got killed here. I thought he had a very good game, Darnold was under a ton of pressure. The whole DL looked really good to my eyes.

If only our back 7 (especially the LBs and Bethea and Baker) didn't suck, this defense might actually look OK.
I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 11:39 am : link
against the sorryass Jets.
As I continue watching, Gates seems to get winded late  
Saos1n : 11/12/2019 11:40 am : link
He continued to allow late rushers inside his pads, instead of him initiating contact. Seemed to try and over power people late in the game, as mechanics broke down
RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
Saos1n : 11/12/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
against the sorryass Jets.


It wasn’t just the Jets. He was impressive in his first start with us, last week, against the cowboys.
Thanks for the analysis. I was very interested in reading opinions on  
Ira : 11/12/2019 11:44 am : link
Gates as I always find myself focusing on the skill positions during the games. I take it he's at least as good as Remmers. I hope he continues to start after the bye and see what he looks like after he gets used to working next to Zeitler.
Also in his defense - Based on backup o-line  
Bob in Newburgh : 11/12/2019 11:44 am : link
Gates would have gotten most of his reps at LT prior to last week.
RE: RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
jcn56 : 11/12/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14677165 Saos1n said:
Quote:
In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


against the sorryass Jets.



It wasn’t just the Jets. He was impressive in his first start with us, last week, against the cowboys.


That's funny, Ezekiel Elliot thought otherwise.
Just finished  
Saos1n : 11/12/2019 11:56 am : link
He continued to break down as the game wore on. He looked gassed. He should get better in that regard as he continues to play entire games. Seemed to get lost in space a bit. Hernandez, Pulley and Smith (rightfully so) weren’t doing the offense any favors. Wow.

Also, Barkley cannot be healthy. Obviously, but his breakdowns in blitz pick up were alarming. You can add Gallman to that as well, although I didn’t watch him much.
Thanks Saos...  
Chris in Philly : 11/12/2019 11:57 am : link
Good thread...
RE: RE: RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
crick n NC : 11/12/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14677182 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14677165 Saos1n said:


Quote:


In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


against the sorryass Jets.



It wasn’t just the Jets. He was impressive in his first start with us, last week, against the cowboys.



That's funny, Ezekiel Elliot thought otherwise.


A player can play well in a unit that didn't. The unit as a whole stunk vs Dallas. It's lazy to assume that every single player stunk.
RE: RE: RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
Saos1n : 11/12/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14677182 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14677165 Saos1n said:


Quote:


In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


against the sorryass Jets.



It wasn’t just the Jets. He was impressive in his first start with us, last week, against the cowboys.



That's funny, Ezekiel Elliot thought otherwise.


He rush defense wasn’t good. I’ll give you that, but in his first game with us, he showed some decent pressure, against a stout offensive line. It wasn’t a world beater showing, but he was far from the problem, in my eyes
Positive thoughts-thank you.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/12/2019 12:08 pm : link
I think 2021 it very well could be Hernandez and four new starters. We really need one and hopefully two of these guys developing on the roster to become good starters (Gates may be one). By 2021 season this is going to be a very good line imo and they will add two good players next year from the draft and keep adding in years after for depth/competition.

People are down on Hill but he will be good depth/rotation with the three starters two of which will be plus players (those you mentioned). If they can add three plus players (Safety, Edge, ILB) the D will be on its way with good coaching.

I think we can all agree that a player like Williams  
cosmicj : 11/12/2019 12:12 pm : link
Who has been on the team for a week deserves a bit of a gimme when he starts the next game. That seems fair, doesn’t it?
RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
bw in dc : 11/12/2019 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
against the sorryass Jets.


Right. A team he has practiced against for a few years, too. And as recently as three weeks ago. He knows the guys on that hideous OL inside/out.
RE: RE: RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
mfsd : 11/12/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14677182 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14677165 Saos1n said:


Quote:


In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


against the sorryass Jets.



It wasn’t just the Jets. He was impressive in his first start with us, last week, against the cowboys.



That's funny, Ezekiel Elliot thought otherwise.


I think that had more to do with our mostly shit LBs
RE: RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
Saos1n : 11/12/2019 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14677213 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14677159 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


against the sorryass Jets.



Right. A team he has practiced against for a few years, too. And as recently as three weeks ago. He knows the guys on that hideous OL inside/out.


Well, imagine if he played poorly against them? The fact is, he didn’t. He was stout. Give credit for play where it’s due, I suppose.

Instead of nitpicking Williams’ 2nd start for us, I’d figure most would rather bash the trash displays that were on the field on Sunday. Like Ogletree and Baker
We're going to pay Williams a shit ton of $$$$...  
Tesla : 11/12/2019 12:47 pm : link
and in two years we'll all be talking about how much of a dead cap hit we'll take to get rid fo him.
Who cares about paying Williams  
mittenedman : 11/12/2019 2:12 pm : link
a shit ton of $$$?

Good lord, this crap about never paying anyone has to stop. If I hear one more person suggest the Patriots way without Bill Belichick and Ernie Adams running the show...

Leonard Williams is an outstanding player. Very disruptive to both the run and pass game. They need a few more DLs like him to start stopping offenses, not less. These guys are hard to get.
We need LWilliams  
5BowlsSoon : 11/12/2019 2:15 pm : link
Great big men on both lines are essential. It would be nice to know we don’t have to worry about the DL and just concentrate on the OL instead.
Mitt....  
Tesla : 11/12/2019 2:15 pm : link
there's this thing that NFL has called a salary cap. It's a pretty big deal. You should read about it sometime. That's why fans care about overpaying for mediocre talent.

Second, Williams is not an "outstanding" player. Nobody thinks that. He's between mediocre and good. If here were Aaron Donald for Khalil Mack then sure, pay him what he wants, but he's not, and it's not close. He's got one sack in 9 games this year. One.
Tesla  
mittenedman : 11/12/2019 2:20 pm : link
I've heard of the cap.

I'm OK putting the cap dollars on the trenches.

Williams is a mediocre talent?

You're lost.
Leonard Williams is "outstanding", huh?  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 2:22 pm : link
Sure he is.
RE: RE: RE: I think I wouldn't put a lot of stock into how Williams looked  
bw in dc : 11/12/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14677225 Saos1n said:
Quote:


Well, imagine if he played poorly against them? The fact is, he didn’t. He was stout. Give credit for play where it’s due, I suppose.

Instead of nitpicking Williams’ 2nd start for us, I’d figure most would rather bash the trash displays that were on the field on Sunday. Like Ogletree and Baker


It's just context. That's all.

I'm just not sure LW is really, really good. Our OL is certainly not great, but without LW the Jets DL hummed right along without LW. Absolutely pounded us. Maybe Jets Central looked at LW and saw redundancies with him, wasn't a force multiplier, and weren't going to lay out $15-17M in cap money for a solid, inconsistent player...

Greg  
Johnny5 : 11/12/2019 2:28 pm : link
Williams is a good player. He and Adams were the two best players on that defense. He's not JJ Watt but he is a good player.
Gates is yet another example of why  
arniefez : 11/12/2019 2:32 pm : link
it's idiotic to say well the coaches see the guys everyday in practice so they know who should play.

Remmers has a bad back so maybe that's why he's one of the worst OT's in the NFL but that's what he is now. One of the worst OT's in the NFL.

Gates might be too but he's still better than Remmers.

Always remember Tom Coughlin who is worshipped here by many tried to cut Victor Cruz before the 2011 season and only played him when he was literally the last WR left who wasn't injured.

And while Tom Coughlin isn't what many here think he is (HOF elite level HC) he sure was a very good NFL coach by every measure so what was he missing?

Coaches have their own preconceived bias and some like Coughlin always want to play Vets even when the Vets are absolutely horrible like Bethea and Ogletree on the current Giants defense.
Williams is the best DL the Giants have  
arniefez : 11/12/2019 2:36 pm : link
better than Lawrence better than any of them. Is he worth 15 million a year? Probably not but that's where this is going. Considering the last 10 years of Giants 3rd round draft picks maybe it's for the best. Have you looked at that list?
I never said he wasn't a good player  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 2:38 pm : link
But is he good enough to merit a)giving up draft picks b)signing him to a lucrative contract? If you're going to make that kind of investment in a player, he had better be pretty damned good. Don't think Williams has been that kind of guy to this point in his career.
Greg  
Johnny5 : 11/12/2019 2:51 pm : link
Can't argue your points there. I guess it depends how much he commands. I am hoping we sign him long term but only at a reasonable price.
well, Randal, he may be better than Lawrence today  
Greg from LI : 11/12/2019 2:56 pm : link
But will he be better than Lawrence in a year or two? He almost certainly won't provide the same value.
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