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Sign Clowney and Draft Chase Young

CMicks3110 : 11/12/2019 2:39 pm
and draft Kenneth Murray or Dylan Moses at the top of Round 2 and our defense is set for years.

And the heck with the OL  
BillT : 11/12/2019 2:42 pm : link
Good plan.
And  
AcesUp : 11/12/2019 2:43 pm : link
Our extremely promising 22 year old franchise QB and All Pro caliber young RB will spend their entire rookie contracts on the IR.
We’ve got some depth for a forceful rotation at DL  
Saos1n : 11/12/2019 2:45 pm : link
Need an impact edge, probably 2 and an instinctive ILB to pair with Connelly.

Couple that with a rangy FS and some CBs who actually give a shit (looking at you Baker)

5-7 pieces away from competing on that side of the ball, unfortunately
address o-line through free agency  
CMicks3110 : 11/12/2019 2:45 pm : link
and next year's draft. We can be conservative next year on offense, but the defense will be so young in powerful, we can stand 1 year with a mediocre o-line for the sake of creating an elite defense. Our core offensive players are incredibly young.
Clowney will be Vernon 2.0  
Go Terps : 11/12/2019 2:46 pm : link
No thanks.
If you give out  
AcesUp : 11/12/2019 2:47 pm : link
15M/yr+ to Leonard Williams and about 20M/yr to Clowney + leave money aside for 1 year stop gap vets and rookies...there isn't much left to work with on the OL.
cut Kareem Martin  
CMicks3110 : 11/12/2019 2:49 pm : link
cut Bethea, cut Alec Ogletree, and there should be plenty of room
Change - Chase Young to Andrew Thomas  
90.Cal : 11/12/2019 2:50 pm : link
And re-sign Markus Golden to pair with Clowney and boom... i also kind of hope we can scoop up Moses at the top of RD 2 like Dallas did Jaylon and Jacksonville did Jack a few years back... still jealous we dont have a guy like that at LB
RE: cut Kareem Martin  
AcesUp : 11/12/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14677526 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
cut Bethea, cut Alec Ogletree, and there should be plenty of room


You have to replace those guys with other short term veteran contracts.
if you cut those 3 and pulley  
CMicks3110 : 11/12/2019 2:53 pm : link
we have about $80 million in cap room with no major free agents to re-sign. That would give us the 4th most cap room in the NFL, behind colts, dolphins, texans, and bills, and with the exception of Dolphins, those teams have some free agents to re-sign.
I'm not against spending money either  
AcesUp : 11/12/2019 2:53 pm : link
If Conklin hits the market, sign the guy. But they desperately need to get that line sorted out or the 2nd and 6th picks from the previous two drafts will go to waste.
RE: If you give out  
Doubledeuce22 : 11/12/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14677519 AcesUp said:
Quote:
15M/yr+ to Leonard Williams and about 20M/yr to Clowney + leave money aside for 1 year stop gap vets and rookies...there isn't much left to work with on the OL.


Don't the Giants have like $90 million dollars after this season? I'm pretty sure we can address both needs with all of that money and our draft picks even with signing Clowney and Williams which I am onboard for both.
Clowney was insane last night  
Vanzetti : 11/12/2019 3:41 pm : link
Looks like LT out there

Maybe he is finally living up to his hype. Definitely a guy Giants should try to sign

Draft Thomas at LT and sign LW and Clowney
LT could be out there  
Carl in CT : 11/12/2019 3:48 pm : link
And people ok this board will tell you not to sign him because he is not a choir board. No one else has a solution. It’s brutal.
I’ve yet to see  
Spike13 : 11/12/2019 4:32 pm : link
A player, “Look like LT, out there.”
Sorry, but methinks you never had the opportunity to watch 56, change the rhythm of a game. Woe onto those whom had to play against an injured LT. Clowney had a decent game, and made those around him look better; but he didn’t even size up to JPP, against Dallas. LT, against NO’s in 88, best game I’ve ever seen.
RE: RE: If you give out  
AcesUp : 11/12/2019 6:07 pm : link
Quote:


Don't the Giants have like $90 million dollars after this season? I'm pretty sure we can address both needs with all of that money and our draft picks even with signing Clowney and Williams which I am onboard for both.


Giants are middle of the pack in cap space at around 80m. Could they sign all those guys? Absolutely. If they wanted to get weird they could find a way to fit 5-6 mega contracts under the cap next year. That doesn't mean that they should though. All they'll do is eat up all the space in future years and most likely find themselves trying to get out of a couple of those within a couple of years (ala Solder).

Clowney is a bigtime buyer's remorse candidate. He's been a pretty inconsistent player outside of these stretches where he looks All World...he never keeps it up.
People need to take context into shit, that was the first game  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/12/2019 6:26 pm : link
McGlinchey came back from a knee injury. Maybe, just maybe, he rushed back for a big game. Crazy I know, but Clowney has been a big time disappointment for them.
Excuse me Joe Staley, who was coming off a broken leg, and broke  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/12/2019 6:29 pm : link
his finger last night. I bet dollars to donuts you don't see a game like that from him again.
I'd be interested in a conversation...  
bw in dc : 11/12/2019 6:31 pm : link
for Clowney if we didn't do this bizarre, dumbfounding move for LW. At least Clowney is a DE and he absolutely will create a trickle down effect because he's a massive disruptor.

Clowney you saw last night  
JonC : 11/12/2019 7:13 pm : link
is rarely ever seen. Buyer beware and then some.
RE: Clowney you saw last night  
section125 : 11/12/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14677886 JonC said:
Quote:
is rarely ever seen. Buyer beware and then some.


Took the words out of my computer. I had never seen Clowney play that well ever. If he had, he'd still be in Houston.
Clowney has been great...  
bw in dc : 11/12/2019 7:16 pm : link
for Seattle. He was awesome last night, but it's not like he broke some slump.
RE: Clowney you saw last night  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/12/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14677886 JonC said:
Quote:
is rarely ever seen. Buyer beware and then some.


All he needs is one desperate team to overpay him that is looking to save face and pull a get-rich-quick scheme to save their jobs.

Hmmm...I wonder who that gullible team will be (wink, wink)

Then, they will be surprised when he under performs and only shows up to play the way he did Monday night once every four or five games if that.

He would be the perfect symbol of this Giants 10 year run. Then the excuse will be, "We signed the best pass rusher! What else could we have done?"

BUYER BEWARE
He was a monster last night for certain  
Jimmy Googs : 11/12/2019 7:47 pm : link
versus both run and pass. As good as a DE fan play.

But agree that effort was not there in Houston consistently nor towards the end of his South Carolina days. I think it was SC...
I prefer Yannick from Jax, younger and more  
Danny Dimes : 11/12/2019 8:13 pm : link
Consistent then Clowney but either one is better then what Giants got now.
RE: address o-line through free agency  
Klaatu : 11/12/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14677510 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
and next year's draft. We can be conservative next year on offense, but the defense will be so young in powerful, we can stand 1 year with a mediocre o-line for the sake of creating an elite defense. Our core offensive players are incredibly young.


Great plan.

Find your savior(s) here, throw good money after bad on ageing, or oft-injured, or underachieving players, and forget about how good this OT class looks, not to mention good OC prospects like Biadasz and Humphrey.

You want to go defense in Round 1? Fine. No problem. God knows we could use the help. But you'd better use the bulk of your remaining picks on getting some young OL talent in the pipeline ASAP.
Sign me up.  
MtDizzle : 11/12/2019 11:01 pm : link
Yes we need to fix the OL but we equally as bad need a pass rush. This defense has been our Achilles heel for far too long. We need someone to put fear into opposing offenses. We have a lot of nice little pieces but no game wreckers. These two fit the bill.
Clowney smells the money  
widmerseyebrow : 11/12/2019 11:11 pm : link
He'll revert back to the mean after he gets paid.
RE: Change - Chase Young to Andrew Thomas  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 11/12/2019 11:34 pm : link
In comment 14677528 90.Cal said:
Quote:
And re-sign Markus Golden to pair with Clowney and boom... i also kind of hope we can scoop up Moses at the top of RD 2 like Dallas did Jaylon and Jacksonville did Jack a few years back... still jealous we dont have a guy like that at LB


Not sure why so many of you expect Thomas to be some lockdown LT. Tremendous in the running game, yes, but how is he going to do against NFL speed rushers?

Also, we are back to our usual draft bullshit already, "draft the position we needs hero derp". How's that work out with Flowers? Pugh?

Young is quite possibly the best player in the draft, and it's not like we are stacked at edge anyway.
RE: Sign me up.  
BigBlueinChicago : 11/12/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14678154 MtDizzle said:
Quote:
Yes we need to fix the OL but we equally as bad need a pass rush. This defense has been our Achilles heel for far too long. We need someone to put fear into opposing offenses. We have a lot of nice little pieces but no game wreckers. These two fit the bill.


The issue that I see is that we have a young QB and the #1, #2 and #3 priority should be to ensure he is properly protected.

If we also have an offensive line that is not quality enough to make Barkley worthy of the #2 over all selection, than we have to make sure that happens.

The whole patchwork o-line stuff where we bring in dudes that maybe have one season left and we say, "If they can just hold up..."

I love Young. Giants need a defensive anchor in the worst way. But its almost like we need to get this o-line thing fixed once and for all.
RE: Clowney will be Vernon 2.0  
Ned In Atlanta : 11/13/2019 3:26 am : link
In comment 14677515 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No thanks.





Agreed. I want NO part of clown after he gets $60 million guaranteed
M
RE: I'd be interested in a conversation...  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/13/2019 5:45 am : link
In comment 14677861 bw in dc said:
Quote:
for Clowney if we didn't do this bizarre, dumbfounding move for LW. At least Clowney is a DE and he absolutely will create a trickle down effect because he's a massive disruptor.


This is so offbase, the Seahawks pass rush has been abysmal with Clowney and Ansah.
RE: And  
5BowlsSoon : 11/13/2019 7:44 am : link
In comment 14677505 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Our extremely promising 22 year old franchise QB and All Pro caliber young RB will spend their entire rookie contracts on the IR.


You make a good point but.......if we can somehow buy two OL guys in free agency who have proven to be good solid players, that might work too. I know, I know......buying these guys is not easy, and you are correct, they are not easy to buy.....so maybe one is more realistic. So even if we get one premium OLT and who knows, maybe NICK GATES shows us he can handle the ORT position, then all we need is a center. It is very possible we can draft a decent center prospect with a comp pick in the third round, or if we trade down and pick up another 3rd round pick. Centers don’t usually fly off the board.

Conclusion:
1. Pick up best OLT available in free agency
2. Coach up Nick Gates
3. Draft a center in round 3
4. Draft th3 two best defensive players in rounds 1-2
Free agent priorities should be ILB and FS.  
Klaatu : 11/13/2019 8:09 am : link
Not on a DE who may or may not show up on gameday, and who's going to cost a small fortune to sign. Besides don't we have one of those already? You want to "back up the truck?" Do it for guys who show up every game and get the job done, like Corey Littleton, Patrick Onwuasor, or Blake Martinez, not for someone like Clowney.
RE: RE: And  
Klaatu : 11/13/2019 8:35 am : link
In comment 14678251 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 14677505 AcesUp said:


Quote:


Our extremely promising 22 year old franchise QB and All Pro caliber young RB will spend their entire rookie contracts on the IR.



You make a good point but.......if we can somehow buy two OL guys in free agency who have proven to be good solid players, that might work too. I know, I know......buying these guys is not easy, and you are correct, they are not easy to buy.....so maybe one is more realistic. So even if we get one premium OLT and who knows, maybe NICK GATES shows us he can handle the ORT position, then all we need is a center. It is very possible we can draft a decent center prospect with a comp pick in the third round, or if we trade down and pick up another 3rd round pick. Centers don’t usually fly off the board.

Conclusion:
1. Pick up best OLT available in free agency
2. Coach up Nick Gates
3. Draft a center in round 3
4. Draft th3 two best defensive players in rounds 1-2


Posts like this drive me up a fucking wall.

How the hell can you call for signing free agent OLT's without naming any? Have you even looked at who'll be available? I've linked to spotrac's list several times, most recently a few posts up from this one, just to show how lousy the market is. Have you even looked at it?

"Coach up Nick Gates." Oh, well, if it's that easy, why bother to sign or draft anyone? Why not simply "coach up" everybody? Problems solved!

"Draft a Center in Round 3." Can you guarantee that a good Center prospect will even be there when we're up? A guy who can step in and start right away? Why relegate what is arguably the most important position on the O-Line - yes, even more important than LT - to a late Day 2 pick?

"Draft the two best defensive players in rounds 1-2" Suppose the best defensive player in either round isn't graded as highly as the best offensive player available? Should we just forget about the O-Line or a top-tier WR? I think it's safe to say that we're not going to go QB or RB there, and probably not TE, either, but the draft looks to be stacked with OL and WR, and as pathetic as our defense is we can certainly fill up a hole or two in free agency, and not resort to reaching/passing on offensive talent because of it.
Sign or extend Marcus Golden and draft Chase Young,  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/15/2019 9:52 am : link
instead. That's a serious plan, and presumably Golden costs about half, or at most 2/3rds of what Clowney will command from a team that sees him as the missing piece.

Maybe sign an OT like Conklin or Williams as well.

Obviously Leonard Williams should be re-signed / extended.

Pray for a good ILB again somewhere in this draft and that between Love and Ballentine we already have Bethea's replacement on the roster.

Honestly looking at all the Giants' needs, it's unlikely we will field a contender until 2021.
But after watching some Chase Young tape, he's the type of true  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/15/2019 9:58 am : link
quick twitch player the Giants haven't had in quite some time, and he has the length and power they covet as well in a premium edge rusher.

He's Leonard Floyd on super food or steroids as raw material.

Not convinced he's much developed yet like the Bosa brothers. He seems to rely more on his G-d given talent (speed and extreme freaky get off at the snap.)

High motor guy, extremely high motor off the snap.
And first of all!  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/15/2019 10:00 am : link
Pray Chase Young is still available at the Giants' slot in round 1.

Cuz he could go #1 overall.
Got some scouting to do on Young  
JonC : 11/15/2019 10:03 am : link
to ensure he can play in a 3-4, because he looks more like a 4-3 DE to me.

I highly doubt we're spending open market UFA dollars on Clowney, or any player in their later 20s. We shouldn't be.
agree strongly with Klaatu's last post  
JonC : 11/15/2019 10:05 am : link
that's not how the draft should be utilized.
RE: Got some scouting to do on Young  
bigbluehoya : 11/15/2019 10:07 am : link
In comment 14680084 JonC said:
Quote:
to ensure he can play in a 3-4, because he looks more like a 4-3 DE to me.

I highly doubt we're spending open market UFA dollars on Clowney, or any player in their later 20s. We shouldn't be.


Jon - in your estimation, are we pigeon-holed in a 3-4 at this point (from a personnel standpoint) even if there's a coaching change?

Seems like Lawrence is versatile enough to play either system and there are few, if any, other front 7 players under contract worth scheming around.
They're clearly investing in 3-4 talent  
JonC : 11/15/2019 10:19 am : link
up front, as well as LB. While the entire LB unit needs talent across the board, it would take time to change schemes as the 4-3 requires different body types and SPEED at LB.
RE: Got some scouting to do on Young  
Klaatu : 11/15/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14680084 JonC said:
Quote:
to ensure he can play in a 3-4, because he looks more like a 4-3 DE to me.

I highly doubt we're spending open market UFA dollars on Clowney, or any player in their later 20s. We shouldn't be.


What attributes are you looking for in making your determination about Young?

Just for the hell of it, here are some highlights of Young and A.J. Epenesa, two kids I've seen projected to go to the Giants.

Chase Young

A.J. Epenesa
Time to watch film  
JonC : 11/15/2019 12:22 pm : link
I have none these days.

Look for quick twitch, bend angles as he engages a blocker, can he create the correct angles to explode and move the blocker in front of him so he can capture the edge and clear a path to the QB, downhill closing burst, does he pursue plays and hustle from the backside or downfield, what does his footwork and hand technique look like, how does he play in space, can he cover any routes in the first two levels of the defense, etc.
RE: Time to watch film  
Klaatu : 11/15/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14680270 JonC said:
Quote:
I have none these days.

Look for quick twitch, bend angles as he engages a blocker, can he create the correct angles to explode and move the blocker in front of him so he can capture the edge and clear a path to the QB, downhill closing burst, does he pursue plays and hustle from the backside or downfield, what does his footwork and hand technique look like, how does he play in space, can he cover any routes in the first two levels of the defense, etc.


Fatherhood interfering with your scouting? Well, that's a good problem to have.

And thanks for the overview.
Work  
JonC : 11/15/2019 1:51 pm : link
fatherhood, and I lost my father unexpectedly last week. Rough seas of late.
RE: Work  
Klaatu : 11/15/2019 1:56 pm : link
In comment 14680363 JonC said:
Quote:
fatherhood, and I lost my father unexpectedly last week. Rough seas of late.


Oh, hell. Sorry to hear that, Jon. My condolences.
Jon  
cosmicj : 11/15/2019 1:56 pm : link
Condolences on your father’s passing.
RE: Work  
Go Terps : 11/15/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14680363 JonC said:
Quote:
fatherhood, and I lost my father unexpectedly last week. Rough seas of late.


Sorry, man.
RE: Time to watch film  
JonC : 11/15/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14680270 JonC said:
Quote:
I have none these days.

Look for quick twitch, bend angles as he engages a blocker, can he create the correct angles to explode and move the blocker in front of him so he can capture the edge and clear a path to the QB, downhill closing burst, does he pursue plays and hustle from the backside or downfield, what does his footwork and hand technique look like, how does he play in space, can he cover any routes in the first two levels of the defense, etc.


Also, is he physical in setting the edge and attacking both blockers and the ball. Does he process read recognition and find the ball quickly, is he disciplined in his assignments, etc.
Thanks dudes  
JonC : 11/15/2019 2:58 pm : link
.
RE: Time to watch film  
BlueLou'sBack : 11/16/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14680270 JonC said:
Quote:
I have none these days.

Look for quick twitch, bend angles as he engages a blocker, can he create the correct angles to explode and move the blocker in front of him so he can capture the edge and clear a path to the QB, downhill closing burst, does he pursue plays and hustle from the backside or downfield, what does his footwork and hand technique look like, how does he play in space, can he cover any routes in the first two levels of the defense, etc.


First of all condolences on the loss of your dad, and for your son's premature loss (got that right, boy?) of his grandpa. Very sad to hear.

Re Young, I haven't watched many snaps so far, but at least once, when asked to cover a route in the flat, a short square out, Young was all over the receiver "like white on rice". I mean he was glued to the guy and with his length there was no way in hell that pass was gonna get completed.
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