So it's been long rumored that the Astros were stealing signs. So much so that the Yankees went to this thing where they kept changing the signs based on signals in their hat (and shut out the Astros in Game 1 of the ALCS).
The Athletic had an article about the Astros sign stealing in 2017.
Anyway, the Astros are an unlikeable group of dicks before this and even moreso now. Jomboy had a good example of it on his twitter. Take a look. As he says, screw AJ Hinch.
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1194348775965437952?s=20 - (
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and he wants to complain about home runs down the line and off of foul poles....
Is anyone surprised by the Astros' doing this? They are the Patriots of MLB.
@jmjones
Houston is one of three teams I’ve had multiple players identify to me as the most egregious with electronic sign stealing. The others: Milwaukee and Texas.
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Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
· 3h
The #Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball. Story with @EvanDrellich. https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/
2:42 PM · Nov 12, 2019
Now, take a wild guess what organization hired their GM, David Stearns from? Right, he was an assistant GM with Astros when Milwaukee hired him.
Yeah I guess that would work. Someone hidden from sight, even in the clubhouse watching on a monitor. There is probably something "there" and again i realize Verlander almost certainly was cheating as well but the idea isn't an awful one.
Every team needs to pitch. The Owners/GMs should all be able to look at one another in the eye once and for all and agree that the bullshit stops. It isn't good for the game, either from a purist perspective or a financial perspective.
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Think back to 2017 though - Yankee pitchers dominated the three middle games in the Bronx. The Astros had just eleven hits in those three games and scored 5 runs - 2 of them unearned via errors. Then, when the series returned to Houston, their bats came alive and scored 11 runs on 18 hits in Games 6 and 7.
What’s interesting is there seems to be a general acceptance of pitchers using pine tar now - plenty of pictures/video evidence of pitchers or catchers having pine tar on their hats, arms, wherever, but you rarely see opposing teams object
To wit:
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They should be punished, like losing draft picks or forfeiting IFA money. These fuckers need to pay.
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And who knows if they were doing it this year but when Altuve crushed a bad slider for that final homer vs the Yankees... I knew it was a bad pitch, but the guy still throws 101 mph. To be that ON that pitch was stunning to me. I’d love for this “investigation” to lead to more than a slap on the wrist fine.
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Either enforce the rule or eliminate the rule. I can't stand when the league tacitly allows it, but only if it's not too obvious.
They had no problem enforcing the pine tar rule when it was Severino.
You mean Pineda.
Regarding Nolan Ryan, I had read somewhere that he was angry about someone he liked in the front office being let go, and that's why he quit.
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In comment 14677804 Greg from LI said:
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Either enforce the rule or eliminate the rule. I can't stand when the league tacitly allows it, but only if it's not too obvious.
They had no problem enforcing the pine tar rule when it was Severino.
You mean Pineda.
Regarding Nolan Ryan, I had read somewhere that he was angry about someone he liked in the front office being let go, and that's why he quit.
His son was replaced by Jim Crane's son. Nepotism for nepotism.
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Those are clear as day and there's no disputing the pattern. loud bang for offspeed, nothing for fastballs.
Only thing I'd like to see is a) make sure these videos are not doctored (I don't think they are, but they should be authenticated in the investigation) and b) how do these bangs sound to the batter. Where was this recording done, these bangs sound so disruptive in an MLB stadium, how does everyone not notice?
I don't see how players are even ok with this. It's worse than spy gate in theory because who knows how much the players even knew about spy gate. that could (in theory) have been all on Belichick and his staff.
What the Astros were doing every single player who had an at-bat and had the change up/off speed pitch communicated to them was directly cheating.
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Only thing I'd like to see is a) make sure these videos are not doctored (I don't think they are, but they should be authenticated in the investigation) and b) how do these bangs sound to the batter. Where was this recording done, these bangs sound so disruptive in an MLB stadium, how does everyone not notice?
I don't see how players are even ok with this. It's worse than spy gate in theory because who knows how much the players even knew about spy gate. that could (in theory) have been all on Belichick and his staff.
What the Astros were doing every single player who had an at-bat and had the change up/off speed pitch communicated to them was directly cheating.
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Good point. Every player found to play a role should be suspended the equivalent of a PED suspension. They can stagger when the players serve so that no more than 3 are suspended at a time!
They didn't do it all the time. Speculation is that a)some games, they couldn't decode the signs b)they kept it around for when they felt like they needed the help c)they thought it would be much harder to prove if it wasn't too often.
I mean, teams were on to them. The Red Sox and Indians both accused them of it, and the Yankees this year said they were whistling to indicate pitches to the batter.
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LOL, that's the smoking gun. Need to take all of them out back and shoot them.
A lot of what I've read says they may not have even broken any official rule. Using video surveilance to steal signs was not made illegal until this past February.
I doubt anyone gets a lifetime ban, definitely shady shit and unethical (and illegal now), but you don't get lifetime bans for that IMO. I read the commissioner has latitude to dole out punishments at his discretion based on some vague league discipline policies and would probably use that, but IMO not as severe as you are insinuating.
unless the people I've read with that opinion are wrong.
Yep...
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they'll be punished - but mostly because of the optics, I'm just saying I wouldn't expect multiple lifetime bans like the other poster suggested.
it's sort of like PEDs in baseball pre 1998, there was no official rule against using electronic surveillance until February 2019.
This is from an SI article in November 2018, so right after last years world series:
Among the developments that are slowing baseball games to a crawl: the proliferation of electronic surveillance. Many clubs now have as many as six high magnification cameras installed in their home ballpark specifically designed to steal signs from opponents.
Here’s how quickly things have changed, according to a Dodgers source. Three years ago, if you walked into the Dodgers’ video room behind their Dodger Stadium dugout you would likely have found Zack Greinke pouring over video of opposing hitters, looking for any edge he could find to match up his stuff against their weakness. This year, if you walked into the same room you would have found a small army of 20-something analysts in polo shirts and slacks pouring over video from the in-house cameras, like the security room at a Vegas casino. Most teams train their cameras on the catcher, the pitcher (from several angles), the third base coach and the dugout.
These cameras are not used for training purposes. They are used expressly for stealing signs and deciphering “tells” from pitchers.
“We’ve reached a point,” said one club executive, “where the attractiveness of the sport as an entertainment option has been lost in the quest to find every incremental edge. And video has changed things rapidly. I’m increasingly thinking something has to be done.”...
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they were using the electronic devices (apple watches) in the dugout which was already prohibited.
I don't think the Astros used the video in the dugout.
It's sort of funny if you read articles about this, like I said it reminds me of the PED era. everyone felt like "yeah you shouldn't do that" but there was no official rule against it.
from a NY times article about the Yankees accusations against the Red Sox from September 2017:
But such information has to be rushed to the dugout on foot so it can be relayed to players on the field — a runner on second, the batter at the plate — while the information is still relevant. The Red Sox admitted to league investigators that they were able to significantly shorten this communications chain by using electronics. In what mimicked the rhythm of a double play, the information would rapidly go from video personnel to a trainer to the players....
exactly. Not illegal.