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Sacrilegious thought

George : 11/12/2019 9:04 pm
Reading Sy'56's brutally honest review of Sunday's disaster, I came across this nugget:

"Barkley allowed two more sacks and a pressure. We can now rightfully say he is a liability in pass protection. Just terrible."

Then I read some BBI commentary about the wisdom of Bill Parcells as a coach, which was pretty accurate for the most part, and that got me thinking about one of his primary rules when it came to playing time: Running Backs Play Only When They Learn How to Pass Protect. This kept some pretty good backs (a-hem; Rodney Hampton) off the field when they first came into the league, but forced them to be better all around players for years thereafter.

Given the fact that he's injured, is playing behind an atrocious offensive line, and can do nothing to salvage anything of value during yet another uncompetitive season for the Giants, Saquon Barkley doesn't have much to offer the team in 2019. 1 yard on 13 carries doesn't seem like a very good return on a guy who's supposed to be the building block of our offense long term. Those are good reasons for shutting him down.

But given his regression as a pass blocker - allowing sacks and pressures at alarming rates - maybe it might be time to (gasp) bench him, a la Parcells, in favor of Wayne Gallman until Barkley learns how to block for his Franchise Quarterback. I think this is probably what Tuna would've done back in 1988. It would be wildly unpopular and piss off a team captain, but maybe that isn't such a bad thing in the long run.

I know; crazy.

Fire away.

While I agree that players need to be held accountable,  
robbieballs2003 : 11/12/2019 9:16 pm : link
Something more glaring is obvious. This is just another example in a long line of ineptitude that Shurmur doesn't put his players in position to succeed. When asked why he hasn't given help to his OTs he said he did on other plays but now when it mattered. He rolled Eli out way more than he is rolling Jones out. He rarely has Jones under center. He went a long time last year without getting Barkley involved. This year when Barkley is obviously still not healthy he barely takes him off the field. Why not put Barkley in a position to succeed and have someone like Penny in the backfield on obvious passing situations? Why is Gallman playing less when Barkley is banged up. It is just mind numbing.
I absolutely agree  
markky : 11/12/2019 9:17 pm : link
Whether he’s blocking poorly because of injury or lack of skill, either way he should be on the bench
You can’t do that  
JoeyBigBlue : 11/12/2019 9:18 pm : link
To the guy that is basically the face of the franchise. Shurmur needs to find ways to protect Barkley. Why can’t he play Barkley and Gallman in 2 back sets where Gallman is the primary blocker. Or have Barkley come off on obvious passing situations.
The truisms of the old era of football  
bradshaw44 : 11/12/2019 9:18 pm : link
Are dead. Players are now valuable assets that put asses in the seats. They would never bench a healthy Barkley. They would also be widely criticized. Even though I agree with the idea of making players earn their position regardless of draft position, that is seldom the case in today’s NFL.

They should just sit him down because he’s not healthy and we aren’t going anywhere this season besides the top of the draft.
I think sitting him down  
Giant John : 11/12/2019 9:22 pm : link
Is q good idea. I’d first want him to get healthy before I worried about blocking though.
Excellent thinking.  
Red Dog : 11/12/2019 9:26 pm : link
Parcells had it right.

Barkley isn't contributing much now. Sit him, let him get healthy, and work on his run blocking.

Oh, and fire Shurmur and all his staff except maybe McGaughey.
You guys give up on young players way to quickly  
PatersonPlank : 11/12/2019 9:26 pm : link
.
No one's giving up on anyone  
George : 11/12/2019 9:29 pm : link
Instead, I'm wondering if maybe, just maybe, SB hasn't learned everything he needs to know to be a complete player just yet.
Wasn’t Saquon  
Payasdaddy : 11/12/2019 9:30 pm : link
An excellent pass blocker last yr and in college?
Tuna..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 11/12/2019 9:31 pm : link
wouldn't have done that and I'm curious how the memory of him has faded so quickly.

He'd have cut Hilliman to prove a point to the RB's. Maybe a player like Haley.

He let the stars get away with whatever they wanted to. But it was also a time when the locker room could police itself and keep things under wraps.
All players have something to work on  
Rjanyg : 11/12/2019 9:32 pm : link
Barkley is no different. He shouldn’t be benched. He is our most explosive player. Our coach needs to do a better job of play calling, personnel grouping, and play design. The assistant coaches need to be teaching Barkley his position and preparing him for blitz pick up.

1 yard on 13 carries is not on the RB. Sorry. I was at the game with endzone seats. We have a rookie QB staying with a run play with 8 in the box. An audible needs to be called.

It’s like some of you didn’t watch last season. The kid is a stud and has an injury.
This team is a reflection of its head coach.....  
thrunthrublue : 11/12/2019 9:59 pm : link
Dim witted, clueless, out of position, out coached, out played, out matched......2 and 14 for shurmur, is a winning season to build on.....ask his accountant if they have ever seen a playoff check for head coach shurmur go past their desk......please, clean house!
Bradshaw was a liability, Eli got frustrated with him  
mattlawson : 11/12/2019 10:15 pm : link
Then became one of the best. I saw Barkley adjust and start going low to take out rushers - exactly what AB used to do. Give him time
I respect Sy56  
Tuckrule : 11/13/2019 5:32 am : link
I re watch the games I listen to big blue banter podcast. One of the sacks credited to Barkley’s mistake was not accurate. It was a slide protection that slid the wrong way and made it seem like it Barkley’s fault. It was not. It was Ellisons mistake. This is why you can’t just look at who appeared to make the error you need to dissect the play and look at the slides and look at the design of the play.
They should take him off the field in passing downs.  
St. Jimmy : 11/13/2019 5:42 am : link
The only thing he needed to improve on was pass blocking last offseason. That didn't happen. Maybe not being in on obvious passing situations will result pass blocking becoming priority.

There is no way Shurmur would do this because he needs to win games.
Shurmur  
Les in TO : 11/13/2019 5:45 am : link
Is too meek and mild to do something like that. He doesn’t hold fringe players accountable for mistakes let alone RBs.maybe that’s why the players like him so much.
Pass pro  
joeinpa : 11/13/2019 6:43 am : link
Was not a prob at Penn State for Barkley, and unless I m mistaken it wasn’t last season either.

The guy is hurt. But Shurmur, as demonstrated by Smith s performance Sunday often calls the plays he wants making no allowances for deficiencies in his players.

Papa said it best: Maybe it s time to stop calling the plays you want to call and begin calling something that works.
I don't recall him being a liability in pass pro  
Blue21 : 11/13/2019 7:17 am : link
last year
RE: Pass pro  
Rjanyg : 11/13/2019 7:27 am : link
In comment 14678223 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Was not a prob at Penn State for Barkley, and unless I m mistaken it wasn’t last season either.

The guy is hurt. But Shurmur, as demonstrated by Smith s performance Sunday often calls the plays he wants making no allowances for deficiencies in his players.

Papa said it best: Maybe it s time to stop calling the plays you want to call and begin calling something that works.


Amen. Think back to the first drive of our first 2 games this year when Eli was playing. 2 decisive TD drives that featured the running game. And Eli was doing too much RPO.
And the way BBIers pissed on David Wilson...  
M.S. : 11/13/2019 8:28 am : link

...because of his pass-blocking!
Joe,  
RollBlue : 11/13/2019 8:28 am : link
Barkley sucked at blocking last year too.
We do not have a coach  
cjac : 11/13/2019 8:36 am : link
with the nutsack to be able to hold anyone accountable
RE: I respect Sy56  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/13/2019 8:36 am : link
In comment 14678210 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
I re watch the games I listen to big blue banter podcast. One of the sacks credited to Barkley’s mistake was not accurate. It was a slide protection that slid the wrong way and made it seem like it Barkley’s fault. It was not. It was Ellisons mistake. This is why you can’t just look at who appeared to make the error you need to dissect the play and look at the slides and look at the design of the play.


Yeah I didn't get that either. You don't draw up the blocking like that, I figured DJ probably forgot to put Barkley on the right side.
Usually, young RB's struggle in pass pro  
Section331 : 11/13/2019 9:53 am : link
due to not recognizing blitz schemes. Saquon seems to make the right decisions, but is getting blown up. If it's a DL or LB, that's understandable, but Jamal Adams just kicked his ass on Sunday. If it's technique, it's correctable, but that was disconcerting.
And the only argument I can see for benching Barkley  
Section331 : 11/13/2019 9:56 am : link
is that he appears to still be favoring his ankle. For purely performance-related issues, let him play his way out of it, but if it is injury, sit him until it is fully healed.
Whereas it's probably true but also  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 10:01 am : link
It's been glaring for years:

-that nobody on this teams staff has come up through 'run to pass'.

That they came from programs where others had laid the groundwork in the run game, and that our O fronts schematically are not doable in pass protection for the linesmen,the rbs, the TEs or anyone .
People say  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 10:06 am : link
"but the Pats and the Packers do it"

Well. They do . But If you saw a Roman legion at the end of the Roman empire . You might say, "shit, we can do that".

No you cannot. They can, you cannot .

Just accept that the barbarian way is more replicable (falcons, 9ers, Ravens) and try for that.

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