Status of the Giants moving forward

Maybe 5-6 plays a game which is huge.
When you think about it we have not lost a lot of close games this year at all, unlike last year where we had a few heart breakers.
The only close game this year was the one we won against Tampa.
I tend to be optimistic, i think the head coaches game management struggles are overblown a bit(always trailing easy to make bad decisions). But still he cant seem to put the players in the best spot possible. We are a really bad team. Bad talent bad coaching

If 5 to 6 plays, I want some of what you are taking....

5 to 6 players.....i tend to agree.

A stud Edge/DE....Chase Young would be only satisfaction for living through another disaster season.

2 Good OT and Center....not sure this can be accomplished in one season... but The Guards are the only long term solution. Expect better from DG.

A true centerfield FS.....not sure if he is on roster....but Hopefully A.Beathea sits...to check out youngsters.

Now, LBers and WRs....can always be upgraded....I like both rookies.

...nicely written. I sure would like to see things unfold as you have stated here.

But I see at least one issue! As you stated:

"I really do feel we are 5-6 plays away from being a playoff contentions and lets give Gettleman and Shurmur a chance."

I've been watching football for over half a century, and I played football many, many years ago, and I can state with some confidence that we are not 5-6 plays away from playoff contention.

At present, we are the worst the NFL has to offer up on Sundays, and you may be disappointed in how things shake out in the near future.

We need at least a tackle (Lets see how Soldier does at right tackle), we need a deep threat receiver (even though Slayton has gotten better), Middle Linebacker, Edge Rusher to pair with Golden, Safety, and maybe corner if Jenkin isn't here. I do feel Baker will be a much better corner.

I meant to write players, my bad

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I really do feel we are 5-6 plays away from being a playoff contentions

No. You're wrong. They're one 34-yard FG away from being 1-8.

Even if that's true, how many other teams are 5-6 plays away from playoff contention? Good teams make plays, bad teams don't. The Giants are a bad team, and a poorly coached one.

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We don't want Daniel Jones (a rookie) to learn another system; let's see how he does his 2nd year.

I don't want to waste the 2nd year of Daniel Jones on a coach who has never and will never be a winner.

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Gettleman has done well the past 2 draft

Has he? Surely by now there must be some results to go along with that.

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he try to do what he can in free agency (he wasn't working with much money

He had enough money to give OBJ a contract extension, sign the highest priced OL on the market, and trade picks to acquire Alec Ogletree and his contract.

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Of course when we sign players in free agency, sometime they don't pan out, it happens.

It's the GM's job to have his moves pan out. Gettleman made a ludicrous assessment of the roster in 2018, thinking the Giants were a few players away from getting to the playoffs. He had money to spend, and he spent it. He drafted a RB #2 overall.

Gettleman has done a poor job. Shurmur has done a poor job. The Giants are a bad team that still has holes everywhere on the roster.

"hear's why"

In comment 14678386 M.S. said:

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...nicely written. I sure would like to see things unfold as you have stated here. But I see at least one issue! As you stated: "I really do feel we are 5-6 plays away from being a playoff contentions and lets give Gettleman and Shurmur a chance." I've been watching football for over half a century, and I played football many, many years ago, and I can state with some confidence that we are not 5-6 plays away from playoff contention. At present, we are the worst the NFL has to offer up on Sundays, and you may be disappointed in how things shake out in the near future.

Player by player, compare this team to the 2007-8 team.

Name a player from the current team you'd take over their 2007 counterpart.

I come up empty. Barkley maybe, but those backs were all 4.5ypc+. Engram can't block. On D... maybe Lawrence. Maybe Peppers?

The problem is it isn't just about starters. I said at the beginning of the season that the Giants could win some games with the opening day roster, but what about O-line injuries? Linebacker injuries? What then? Well, then you lose to the fucking Jets, that's what.

The Giants need 3 Starting OL, 2 feasible backup OL. They need a playmaking WR, they need a good 2-way TE. They need at LEAST 3 good-very good LB's, they need a good safety to retire the number 41 forever.

It comes from great drafting, great FA acquisitions, and shithouse luck.

The only hope I have is last years draft. If that can become a trend, the rest will work itself out.

Ignores the fact that this team has zero depth

I think it’s more accurate to say we need 15 or so better players, of which 5-6 are legit starters before we can consider ourselves contenders

I meant to say players, not plays.

During the rebuilding year, teams will struggle and lose, but how do you know we won't have success next year?

Dave Gettleman has done a better job drafting than Jerry Reese, more players on the team than all of Jerry's Reese. Maybe Carter, Hill, and Hernandez are not having a year we thought and not use right, but i think they will be better. We got Daniel Jones so we don't need Kyle Lauletta and Beal didn't play yet.

This offseason we have more money to spend than the last 2 offseason; not saying Gettleman didn't do anything, just saying we would be able to sign more players now than before.

In 2018, I think Gettleman thought we were a few player away and he did try to address the issue, but it didn't pan out. These things happen sometime. The giants are a bad team now, but that doesn't mean we cant be a good team next year.

In comment 14678409 giantsfanforlife said:

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I meant to say players, not plays. During the rebuilding year, teams will struggle and lose, but how do you know we won't have success next year? Dave Gettleman has done a better job drafting than Jerry Reese, more players on the team than all of Jerry's Reese. Maybe Carter, Hill, and Hernandez are not having a year we thought and not use right, but i think they will be better. We got Daniel Jones so we don't need Kyle Lauletta and Beal didn't play yet. This offseason we have more money to spend than the last 2 offseason; not saying Gettleman didn't do anything, just saying we would be able to sign more players now than before. In 2018, I think Gettleman thought we were a few player away and he did try to address the issue, but it didn't pan out. These things happen sometime. The giants are a bad team now, but that doesn't mean we cant be a good team next year.

FWIW, nobody in the Giants organization, Gettleman included, is currently in a position to gloat.

Better than Reese? I *think* so, but there's literally zero success to base that on. Remember, Reese's first draft looked like a great one too.

In comment 14678409 giantsfanforlife said:

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I meant to say players, not plays. During the rebuilding year, teams will struggle and lose, but how do you know we won't have success next year? Dave Gettleman has done a better job drafting than Jerry Reese, more players on the team than all of Jerry's Reese. Maybe Carter, Hill, and Hernandez are not having a year we thought and not use right, but i think they will be better. We got Daniel Jones so we don't need Kyle Lauletta and Beal didn't play yet. This offseason we have more money to spend than the last 2 offseason; not saying Gettleman didn't do anything, just saying we would be able to sign more players now than before. In 2018, I think Gettleman thought we were a few player away and he did try to address the issue, but it didn't pan out. These things happen sometime. The giants are a bad team now, but that doesn't mean we cant be a good team next year.

To the OP, I appreciate your optimism, but even if you meant we are 5-6 "players" away from being playoff contenders, that is a large distance in today's NFL.

So many players have regressed as well; who's to say more won't regress next year?

The argument that "The giants are a bad team now, but that doesn't mean we cant be a good team next year" is blind optimism that can be said for any team in any sport.

Bottom line is, people on this forum are frustrated. I live in ATL and have still managed to watch all but two of the Giants games. We are big fans and are sick of having our weekends ruined by this team. Whether its the GM, coaching, or players, hopefully someone will find answers fast instead of silver linings.

5-6 starters, but of course we need depth in every position, due to injuries and the more we have the better. It can be done, but who know what will happen.

Do you think we can do this in 1 offseason? If not, then how many?

I agree, everyone in the organization is accountable for how the Giants are, including Dave Gettleman.

Couple of draft Reese did were very good, but he was very inconsistent.

All I am saying is let give Gettleman 1 more year and if they don't make the playoffs next season, then he should be gone.

I just don't think firing people after 2 years is the answer. I think we need to give another year.

In comment 14678392 rsjem1979 said:

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It's the GM's job to have his moves pan out. Gettleman made a ludicrous assessment of the roster in 2018, thinking the Giants were a few players away from getting to the playoffs. He had money to spend, and he spent it. He drafted a RB #2 overall.

but maybe we want to move down to grab and OT and get a center like Biadsz. We could sign Shaq Barett in FA for pass rush.

Use the second round pick on a big WR.

Use our fourth rounder on a big TE.

I think what you wrote will probably happen.....that is no firing of Shurmur and certainly not of Gettleman will take place this offseason.

I’m sure every important person who makes decisions can see the Giants have two things holding them back this year:

1. Playing a lot of youth, and youth make mistakes
2. Injuries, especially on offense, but don’t forget Connelly

Because of these two things, I have a strong feeling grace will be extended to coach Shurmur. I also agree with you, they may also want to keep the continuity for Jones’ benefit as well.

I’ve become indifferent to our coach, so I really don’t care one way or the other. We shall see.

...now that you clarified "players", by my count we could probably use at least 5-6 productive starters not on the current roster. (Could be as high as 8.) And that says nothing about a "decent" level of depth as others have pointed out on this thread.

Translation: We are nearly at the very start of a re-build. This will take several years IMO.

In comment 14678409 giantsfanforlife said:

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I meant to say players, not plays. During the rebuilding year, teams will struggle and lose, but how do you know we won't have success next year? Dave Gettleman has done a better job drafting than Jerry Reese, more players on the team than all of Jerry's Reese. Maybe Carter, Hill, and Hernandez are not having a year we thought and not use right, but i think they will be better. We got Daniel Jones so we don't need Kyle Lauletta and Beal didn't play yet. This offseason we have more money to spend than the last 2 offseason; not saying Gettleman didn't do anything, just saying we would be able to sign more players now than before. In 2018, I think Gettleman thought we were a few player away and he did try to address the issue, but it didn't pan out. These things happen sometime. The giants are a bad team now, but that doesn't mean we cant be a good team next year.

I'm not here to tell you how to root for your team, but your entire premise is based on the hope that things will just work out.

BJ Hill (3rd Rd Pick) has been on the field for less than 40% of the defensive snaps over the last 4 weeks. He's been on the field for only 35 defensive plays in the last two.

Carter has made a minimal impact. Beal hasn't played, as you pointed out. Lauletta was a wasted pick. Two more picks were wasted trading for pending UFA Leonard Williams.

Gettleman stinks at this.

I am hoping we are in contend for playoffs next year, but you never know.

If we don't make the playoff next year, I think we will be back to rebuilding mode, but I think we been in that mode since Gettleman got here.

We just got to hope for the best and see what happens. I honestly don't mind being in a rebuilding process because once we become a playoff teams, I see the giants being contenders every season like the packers.

These guys are young and I think they can develop into their 3rd year. I can be wrong, but we just got to hope for the best, have a good offseason/draft, and one day the Giants will be a good team and win another super bowl.

Leonard Williams actually had a better game against the Jets than against the cowboys. I think he will get better as the season goes.

In comment 14678439 giantsfanforlife said:

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5-6 starters, but of course we need depth in every position, due to injuries and the more we have the better. It can be done, but who know what will happen. Do you think we can do this in 1 offseason? If not, then how many?

No way in one season. I don’t see this team making the playoffs next year without a tremendous amount of good fortune.

2 years to be a legit playoff contender if all breaks mostly right.

This organisation hired Shurmur as a replacement for McAdoo, and those two coaches will go down in history as two of the worst head coaches to ever stand on the sidelines of an NFL team.
Although they have a supremely talented running back, they are extremely deficient at the position of wide receiver.
They have a decent replacement quarterback to take the place of a two-time Super Bowl winning QB who will wind up in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Their offensive line, which has been a problem for a decade, is still as weak as balsa, and the defense is an even bigger joke.
The owner is committed to the mistake he hired as GM, and the GM is committed to the mistake he hired as coach.
This is a severely mismanaged organisation from top to bottom, and the projections for improvement are at the very least 5 to 10 year away, thanks to the stupidity in the front office and ownership.
Every time I see people complain about the annoying owners like Jeffrey Laurey in Philly, or that troll in Dallas, I have to point out that we Giants fans have the worst toolbag in the NFL as an owner. He allowed Jerry Reese ruin this franchise since the last Super Bowl victory against a team that is still competing for the trophy we won from them.
Mara is an awful owner, and moving forward for this franchise will happen when he simply stays in his office and signs the checks. Mara should stay out of all decisions about players, coaches, and managing.

we will be in a perpetual state of mediocrity until Gettleman and Shurmer are out. They also need to bring someone outside the Org. with a fresh perspective. Until then , I have no hope for this franchise. And the only interest I have for the season is rooting for draft position now , which frankly sucks.

with some of what you wrote, but have some doubts. For Gettleman, what I agree with is that I think he was brought in with a bit of an double mandate and that has made things more confusing. The first mandate was try and get another playoff run with Eli. That's short term thinking and they made some moves that didn't pan out. They got him a prize RB, they got the best OLT they could afford, this year they tried to solidify the OL further and add some pieces on D, but they also had to address the QB position due to the 2nd mandate: build to the future post-Eli. This next one will be the first draft fully post Eli when they are now building around the new QB and not trying to get one more playoff run out of Eli.

Now, as for Shurmur, the only thing that argues for keeping him is that he HAS put together good Os in the past. Plus he's apparently good at QB development and DJ doesn't have to learn a 3rd system in 2 years (counting college). I honestly don't love a coach keeping his play calling OC duties. The tendency is to fall back on what you know and are comfortable with, and that means other stuff isn't getting equal HC attention. Like, say, the D. Moreover, the question is are we getting the most out of players we have. Are we happy with the schemes, do we feel like we're putting DJ and SB in position to succeed? I was neutral on PS but after seeing the lack of rollouts, the lack of creativity in the run game, the inability to get the ball to SB in space, the in ability to find a way to run the football even reasonably, its hard to argue we're maximizing what we do have. When it was clear what we were doing in the run game wasn't working vs the Jets, could we not have tried something else? Watching other games, I think it was Sunday night I saw a team that tries to get the edge but couldn't adjust to have the FB kick out and the RB cut up. And then keep changing things up. We just don't seem to adjust so well. Hearing our backup LT had no experience there only compounds the issue.

As I said on a thread elsewhere, I think maybe the time is to build the OL and focus on building a team identity around the D, which at this point is just a disaster with no identity.

The problem is we're 5-6 players away from being average, not good. To be good we had to build depth because injuries will happen. 5-6 players gets rid of our glaring weaknesses at LB, edge, WR, and OL and FS (maybe). It doesn't solidify everything into a coherent whole, and provide depth to be consistent. That's going to take another 5-6 players after that. And only if we are coached better than we have been to date.

In comment 14678397 rmc3981 said:

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"hear's why"

I'm going to assume by the competent writing before and after this was a rogue typo or iPhone correction.

This roster sucks and is not 5 or 6 players away from anything worth having. This team flat sucks.