is much more about how I never envisioned Shurmur as a punch you in the mouth, we are going to ram the football down your throat and beat you up in the trenches kind of guy.
Which is odd for Gettleman b/c he strikes me as an old school football guy would be looking for a HC that had more of that type of mind set about how the game should be played.
Ron Rivera fits the mold more to me - which I believe - DG inherited and kept.
Giants won't get better - even with Daniel Jones developing and Saquon Barkley carrying the ball - until they get a good defense and at least an average offensive line.
DL is set with Lawrence, Hill, Tomlinson, and I assume Williams. What this team needs is two OLB edge rushers. That's who traditionally applies pressure in a 3-4. We also need at least two LBs that can cover and run, as well as a free safety, although Love can hopefully fill that latter role. That's a lot to acquire in one offseason. Too much IMO.
On offense, we need two tackles, a center, at least one WR, and possibly a TE. A second WR will be necessary if Shepard can't return next season.
All of this is after two draft and FA classes, and the blockbuster OBJ trade.
DL is set with Lawrence, Hill, Tomlinson, and I assume Williams. What this team needs is two OLB edge rushers. That's who traditionally applies pressure in a 3-4. We also need at least two LBs that can cover and run, as well as a free safety, although Love can hopefully fill that latter role. That's a lot to acquire in one offseason. Too much IMO.
On offense, we need two tackles, a center, at least one WR, and possibly a TE. A second WR will be necessary if Shepard can't return next season.
All of this is after two draft and FA classes, and the blockbuster OBJ trade.
Don't assume that Leonard Williams will want to re-sign here. It's a shit show.
DL is set with Lawrence, Hill, Tomlinson, and I assume Williams. What this team needs is two OLB edge rushers. That's who traditionally applies pressure in a 3-4. We also need at least two LBs that can cover and run, as well as a free safety, although Love can hopefully fill that latter role. That's a lot to acquire in one offseason. Too much IMO.
On offense, we need two tackles, a center, at least one WR, and possibly a TE. A second WR will be necessary if Shepard can't return next season.
All of this is after two draft and FA classes, and the blockbuster OBJ trade.
Acid - I think a second draft WR is not necessary. You still have Tate, Slayton, and a draft pick. That's w/o Sheppard.
You've got Engram - for better or worse - at TE.
Not that you don't go there, but those are areas that are at least satisfied for 2020.
The Giants have not had any "star quality" assistent coaches or coordinators in years. Have any recent ex-Giant coaches advanced their careers after leaving?
Coaching is critical in the NFL. Our players, as individuals, are not as bad as the results they are getting. As a team, you are what your record says you are.
My thoughts
Gettleman is fine as GM.
Improve pro-personel scouting department to do better in FA evaluation.
Hire and pay for top-notch assistant coaches. Especially at OL and DL. Line coaches are very often the personalities that drive a team's energy.
Improve defensive personnel at LB and S. These positions are tone setters. Think Ray Lewis, LT, Harry Carson, Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed, etc...
Improve OL on offense. Again, they set the tone.
We are not many years away, but I keep seeing the same mistakes. Slow starts (understatement of the year), a lack of discipline. There needs to be more attention to detail. The schemes don't matter if you don't play with passion.
Put simply, the best teams have a swarming defense and a physical offense. We have neither.
But you forgot to credit bw in dc and Daniel in MI as that has pretty much sums up their views :)
I actually think a new head coach with a different play calling/system philosophy will make our current offensive line look a lot better. Combined with a new line coach and strength program.
Barkley's subpar play could be all injury related. Or it may not be. He may simply not trust his offensive line. He may be trying to do too much. He may be suffering from the sophomore jinx.
What we do know is his pass protection has been inexcusable. Parcells would have benched him.
Before you marry a woman, you have to ask yourself, "Is this someone I can envision spending the rest of my life with?" If the answer is no, you move on.
Is your head coach someone you honestly see winning a Super Bowl? If not, you move on.
Shurmur ran the ball almost 50% of the time in Minnesota. Maybe that was Zimmer influenced. He also had way more boots, rolls with the QB. The current offense is nothing like what he ran in Minnesota.
Neither is the talent of a single offensive lineman, WR, or versatile TE - but other than that comparing Shurmur's offense in MIN and his here is completely spot on.
you were doing so well until you just caved to Abrams being the heir apparent.
While I agree that is likely the idiotic plan, that is just more of the same. A guy essentially over-exposed and brain washed to tenets of the "Giants Way".
That is the LAST thing we need if we jettison DG. We need a young, new voice, new ideas with ZERO ties to Jints Central.
Our frustrations as Giant fans go way deep because we have been losing for 7 years. But 2013-2017 are not the fault of DG and Coach Shurmur. They are in year 2 of a complete rebuild. We'll be a better team next year and a good team in 2021. The team has many good/promising players that are in year 1, 2 or 3. They found our future QB, which is huge. Agree, the OL is crucial. I think DG has the talent to fix it, especially with a big step forward via the 2020 draft. Agree, OL talent in FA this year will be costly and competitive, so the Giants must be careful there. Would like to see the Giants search for the best possible OL coach. Hunter has coached NFL OL's for 10 years, but we can do better. Shurmur is such a good dude, I would like to see him get every opportunity to succeed. Defensively, a couple of linebackers and improvement from the young DB's can transform the defense.
Our frustrations as Giant fans go way deep because we have been losing for 7 years. But 2013-2017 are not the fault of DG and Coach Shurmur. They are in year 2 of a complete rebuild. We'll be a better team next year and a good team in 2021. The team has many good/promising players that are in year 1, 2 or 3. They found our future QB, which is huge. Agree, the OL is crucial. I think DG has the talent to fix it, especially with a big step forward via the 2020 draft. Agree, OL talent in FA this year will be costly and competitive, so the Giants must be careful there. Would like to see the Giants search for the best possible OL coach. Hunter has coached NFL OL's for 10 years, but we can do better. Shurmur is such a good dude, I would like to see him get every opportunity to succeed. Defensively, a couple of linebackers and improvement from the young DB's can transform the defense.
Yes and no. Figureheads have changed and some small changes to scouting staff. But for the most part, the organizational structure is the same with many of the same players doing the same things they've always done.
you were doing so well until you just caved to Abrams being the heir apparent.
While I agree that is likely the idiotic plan, that is just more of the same. A guy essentially over-exposed and brain washed to tenets of the "Giants Way".
That is the LAST thing we need if we jettison DG. We need a young, new voice, new ideas with ZERO ties to Jints Central.
Otherwise, this insanity ain't changin'...
bw, we knew Gettleman was going to be the GM. Abrams is going to be the next guy. It is what it is.
There's no doubt that we need one that's a helluva lot better than the one we have.
Ditto for the OL.
At this point, I'd settle for marginally better for either.
If I used the word "great", I didn't mean to (I don't think I did). Asking for "greatness" gets into the fanciful thinking area. I am simply asking for a good, solid defense that beats up the other team.
How long are you going to give the new regime? You think they can fix all this in a year? A year and a half? Two?
Because I think anything less than three years is absurd, yet that's exactly what you're expecting from this current regime - and this current regime will have left the team in MUCH better shape than did the regime before it.
What you need to see is progress. There is not a date by which the club is "fixed." The alternative is you guarantee them three years and essentially there is no accountability for the first few.
I would disagree that DG/PS are leaving this team better than they found it. The inherited a mess and they still have a mess.
Barkley's subpar play could be all injury related. Or it may not be. He may simply not trust his offensive line. He may be trying to do too much. He may be suffering from the sophomore jinx.
What we do know is his pass protection has been inexcusable. Parcells would have benched him.
Agreed. I think Parcells would have benched him. He's being run over, and not just by DL, but also by safeties.
promise as a CF type FS that would be a huge + for this defense.
That's why they have to play him - any young player that can show something is one less piece they have to address in the draft or FA during the off season. They don't have to start - they just have to show that they are roster worthy. Create competition at every position during camp - get some real game tape on these guys so they can improve - start freakin building a team for next year now so we aren't behind the 8 ball all the time.
Play Gates - if he shows he can hang at RT - GREAT if not, we know it needs addressing.
Play Gallman - SB is hurting - is Gallman the answer as #2 back if so GREAT - if not - let's address it
Play Ballentine, play Beal, and anyone else that might be part of the future and let's see what they can do.
Activate some of these guys off the practice squad. They're going to need a 4th and 5th WR next year - is that guy on the roster now? Maybe - but we'll never freakin' know if they don't play. They're going to need guys that can play ST.
Don't give another freakin minute to JAGS like Bethea, Michael Thomas, Cody Latimer, Mike Remmers, Bennie Freakin' Fowler (are you serious - dude is 28 yrs old - why is he playing at all?).
The Giants season is over - let's be forward thinking NOW and see what else is on this roster can/wants to play.
Oh by the way - they haven't done this ANY of the last two years when they sucked just as bad.
there's something else bubbling beneath the surface: The Giants Way. Almost like they want to say it but can't.
What does that mean exactly? A general strategy that is asked of whoever is coaching the team? Sure seems that way. The Giants D is a perfect example: Spags is a blitz happy aggressive guy from the JJ tree and gets here and drops 7 much of the time. Bettcher is a blitz happy guy from AZ who plays press man. Gets here and does the exact same thing Spags did.
Are these guys being told to play the Rod Rust bend don't break style? We've been watching the Giants Way recipe for years, heard Tom & Eli say it many times: Keep the game close and try to win in the 4th quarter. Bend don't break plays right into it. I even remember Coughlin talking about a New York Giants Playbook that seems to transcend coaches.
I see much more fault with Shurmur than I do Gettleman but since Gettleman picked Shurmur, I guess you have to start there.
I don't see how the next GM isn't Abrams so given that and Gettleman's age, they may as well make the switch next year and focus on the new head coach.
Everything below assumes I can't get BB, Saban or John Harbaugh. If I could, I would move heaven and earth to do so.
I don't lean offense or defense but if we're talking about coordinators, I'd take a long look at the crop of special teams coordinators. Their jobs most closely resemble the head coach role in managing multiple units rather than a singular focus. I don't want another "QB guru" to come in and miss the big picture like Shurmur has.
My Head Coach search would include 3 special teams coordinators, a couple who have great reputations with units that perform year in and year out, and another we are more familiar with from his time as a player here and has his unit in the top 10 according to football outsiders. I think this is a really interesting group.
Dave Toub
John Fassel
Chase Blackburn
I would also love to talk to Kris Richard.
He has an excellent body of work in both Seattle and Dallas and seems to have really taken over the majority of the calls from Marinelli for a terrific Dallas defense. Taking from Dallas is another obvious benefit here.
My top choice however is probably Dan Campbell. Has played for Parcells and coached next to Payton for years now. I like the idea of Parcells>>Payton>>Campbell and I have to believe a lot of the football philosophies are in line. If you can get a guy like Payton without his douche personality you've got a hell of a football coach.
Lots of opinion that folks of like minded opinion Â
Since I disagree with a lot of the opinions stated above, like that the online of Solder, Hernandez, Pio, Zeitler and Remmers is no better than the Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart line was.
Points like that OL of 2017 giving up instant sacks, sacks that poured through the A gaps, and this line operates in front of a QB who's still in diapers reading the field and often holds the ball too long, details like that matter and make the arguments like "the OL still sucks" disingenuous.
Dangerously disingenuous. Or that pulling the plug on DG after 2 seasons is ridiculous when to many eyes the drafts look much much better than Reese's Ross's were...
So Carter and Hill haven't lived up to our hopes? Again how do they compare with Jerrel Jernigan and Ramses Barden?
Two of those 4 guys are indeed NFL players and the other two were not!
Finding the biggest pitchfork and taking a stance at the front of the mob isn't exactly a heroic act IMO, and I neither laud nor agree with it.
Even if I'm seriously concerned about Pat Shurmer as HC.
Aside from the mixed metaphor (treading water and being a Â
bottom feeder), this is a perfect analysis. Unfortunately, in terms of the central problems -- leadership, coaching, evaluating talent at key positions other than QB, WR and D-line -- you could have cut-and-pasted it from similar pieces you've written for years. That's quite an indictment of things at the top.
RE: Aside from the mixed metaphor (treading water and being a Â
bottom feeder), this is a perfect analysis. Unfortunately, in terms of the central problems -- leadership, coaching, evaluating talent at key positions other than QB, WR and D-line -- you could have cut-and-pasted it from similar pieces you've written for years. That's quite an indictment of things at the top.
LOL on the mixed metaphor... I should have caught that.
I hope someone from management reads this and brings it to Mara's Â
attention.. Contents of how to fix it may or may not be perfect but bald statements were made and those are the statements of majority of the fans here..
My biggest disappointment is the Defense, I still can’t figure out exactly what defense scheme he is trying to run, nothing is working. Halfway through yr 2 and it’s worse. If over the next 3 games Danny can stop fumbling and Saquan can avoid getting killed , I’ll consider that a success.
assessments are more than warranted. We're tired of 4-12 seasons that are over before Halloween. The biggest concern is that no progress has been made to solving long standing problems despite a huge expenditure of resources, with the OL being the prime example.
Repeating the same action and expecting different results.
The Giants are stuck in a time warp. The best teams in the NFL are not run by powerful all knowing GMs who shape and mold championship teams from the cushy confines of the front office. The best teams are run by Head Coaches that dictate the culture of the entire organization from staff, to scouts, to players and salaries. Belicheck does not answer to a GM. Neither does Sean Payton Andy Reid or Pete Carroll.
In my mind the best thing that Mara/Tisch can do to modernize the team is hire the best HC available that can come in immediately and develop Jones, while at the same time installing a relentless work ethic and hungry attitude throughout the entire organization to find, train and develop the best players at every level. In my mind that would be someone like Josh McDaniels or Lincoln Riley, but regardless the HC needs to have input on whover is running the front office.
Putzing around with another life-long Giants front office suit as GM would just be another couple years wasted expecting different results.
Sadly, I don't see Mara taking a honest look at what is wrong. He strikes me as too afraid to think outside the box & bring in people who aren't part of the Giants 'family'.
This is top of the problem, unless Mara breaks this, all the rest of the piece will just be the same sputtering process. Change your ways and we might see things change for the better. Period
Your frustration is clearly with the Previous GM and roster he built Â
This GM has had 2 yrs to fully rebuild a broken system.
Eli carried this team on his back during the erosion of talent. Now we are headed in the right direction. some of the needed parts are on the roster and most certainly some are not.
This will be addressed thru free agency and draft again. What I like is the team does seem to have a good attitude on the field and even though they constantly shoot themselves in the foot -rookies mistakes mostly and a serious lack of talent at linebacker and edge rushers they keep fighting to win. You don't pull the plug on that -even if the record is horrid.
In fact im glad we will be getting another high draft pick.. another potential blue chip to add. One of the frustrating things for me was team stayed middle of field for drafts when they really needed to be at the top.
I do agree that we need to rebuild our scouting system especially when it comes to the line and linebackers but they did a much better the last 2 years. So chill relax and don't let the frustrations of the last regime upset you.
About Betcher -everyone wanted him and Arians said he was a stud D coach. I believe him. He too needs time
Shurmur needs to get a team together before he can be judged.
Don't forget most of you hated Accorsi, Young, Parcells, Belichek, Coughlin Spags too. It takes time.
The offensive line and defense are getting worse with each game. Saquon is already affected. Soon Daniel Jones will be impacted too (folks are legitimately concerned about the fumbles, but he's getting clobbered back there).
Gettleman said his #1 priority was Hog Mollies. He's failed miserably.
Since I disagree with a lot of the opinions stated above, like that the online of Solder, Hernandez, Pio, Zeitler and Remmers is no better than the Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart line was.
Points like that OL of 2017 giving up instant sacks, sacks that poured through the A gaps, and this line operates in front of a QB who's still in diapers reading the field and often holds the ball too long, details like that matter and make the arguments like "the OL still sucks" disingenuous.
Dangerously disingenuous. Or that pulling the plug on DG after 2 seasons is ridiculous when to many eyes the drafts look much much better than Reese's Ross's were...
So Carter and Hill haven't lived up to our hopes? Again how do they compare with Jerrel Jernigan and Ramses Barden?
Two of those 4 guys are indeed NFL players and the other two were not!
Finding the biggest pitchfork and taking a stance at the front of the mob isn't exactly a heroic act IMO, and I neither laud nor agree with it.
Even if I'm seriously concerned about Pat Shurmer as HC.
The offensive line and defense are getting worse with each game. Saquon is already affected. Soon Daniel Jones will be impacted too (folks are legitimately concerned about the fumbles, but he's getting clobbered back there).
Gettleman said his #1 priority was Hog Mollies. He's failed miserably.
It looks better to me. First we are NOT getting blown off the field as soon as the game starts. This QB has had time to scan the field much more than ELi the last 2 yrs. The hog mollies -we drafted 2 one is playing and looks the part the other we traded for -a very unpopular trade but has now been proven to be correct same with drafting QB DJ. Solder was a stop gap that was needed -Flowers was getting killed. Omemah was a cheap shot that didn't worked -but he wanted Norwell who went to Jax instead. Kid looked pretty good last week at RT and Id like to see some playing time for big George too -but that's for next year.
Saquon is hurt -he is playing hurt he doesn't have the burst or strength he had before the injury -he will be fine but it might be awhile.
The DL played well and I like the parts added Williams was a good get. Our LBrs are trash. Ogletree was a need for someone in the middle to call out the Defense. I would have rather gone a different direction but Betcher needed someone. Same reason why sign Bethea. The Rookies tho look ok -growing pains sure but not getting blown off the field. We need LBrs!!!! We have needed them since Gettleman signed Antonio Pierce.
But expecting this team to quickly become a playyyyyoff team is unrealistic.
Sadly, it makes no difference to the owners. I thought Wellington was bad but John is much worse. He is not going to listen to thoughtful advice from anyone except his crony friends.
The offensive line and defense are getting worse with each game. Saquon is already affected. Soon Daniel Jones will be impacted too (folks are legitimately concerned about the fumbles, but he's getting clobbered back there).
Gettleman said his #1 priority was Hog Mollies. He's failed miserably.
It looks better to me. First we are NOT getting blown off the field as soon as the game starts. This QB has had time to scan the field much more than ELi the last 2 yrs. The hog mollies -we drafted 2 one is playing and looks the part the other we traded for -a very unpopular trade but has now been proven to be correct same with drafting QB DJ. Solder was a stop gap that was needed -Flowers was getting killed. Omemah was a cheap shot that didn't worked -but he wanted Norwell who went to Jax instead. Kid looked pretty good last week at RT and Id like to see some playing time for big George too -but that's for next year.
Saquon is hurt -he is playing hurt he doesn't have the burst or strength he had before the injury -he will be fine but it might be awhile.
The DL played well and I like the parts added Williams was a good get. Our LBrs are trash. Ogletree was a need for someone in the middle to call out the Defense. I would have rather gone a different direction but Betcher needed someone. Same reason why sign Bethea. The Rookies tho look ok -growing pains sure but not getting blown off the field. We need LBrs!!!! We have needed them since Gettleman signed Antonio Pierce.
But expecting this team to quickly become a playyyyyoff team is unrealistic.
All I can say is HUH? We are not getting blown off the field at the start of the game? The Jets drove down the field to open the game as if we weren't there. Then we went 3 and out, including a fumble, and they drove the field again. This was how many games in a row where we gave up a TD to open the game? And how many in a row where we did not score?
As for the OL, Solder has not been better than Flowers, which is saying a lot. But, we are paying him as a top OL. Hernandez seems to have regressed, or at the very least not gotten any better. We have no viable OC, Zeitler is a good, but not special RG, and Remmers is as bad as Solder at RT. We have no viable depth to replace the 3 stiffs.
This has contributed greatly to Barkley doing nothing for a few weeks and Jones continually under pressure.
The D is absolutely putrid. There is no better way to describe them. And trading a 3rd round pick (assuming we re-sign him) for a FA who has underwhelmed the team that traded him at #6 was beyond stupid. If he plays decently for us, it drives up his asking price, which is already high, without having any real impact on the outcome of this season. If they liked him so much, they should have allowed him to continue to get double teamed on the Jets and pay less for him in FA.
Which is odd for Gettleman b/c he strikes me as an old school football guy would be looking for a HC that had more of that type of mind set about how the game should be played.
Ron Rivera fits the mold more to me - which I believe - DG inherited and kept.
Right now, we have neither.
That's why we are 2-8.
Look at the last game, Saquon never had a chance. He was hit repeatedly in the backfield.
This is really the most confusing part of the NYG this season.
I would have bet the OL to be significantly better. On paper, it should be. The majority of this board thought the same too.
My only answer: coaching and scheme.
That is the biggest issue with NYG right now.
On offense, we need two tackles, a center, at least one WR, and possibly a TE. A second WR will be necessary if Shepard can't return next season.
All of this is after two draft and FA classes, and the blockbuster OBJ trade.
On offense, we need two tackles, a center, at least one WR, and possibly a TE. A second WR will be necessary if Shepard can't return next season.
All of this is after two draft and FA classes, and the blockbuster OBJ trade.
Don't assume that Leonard Williams will want to re-sign here. It's a shit show.
On offense, we need two tackles, a center, at least one WR, and possibly a TE. A second WR will be necessary if Shepard can't return next season.
All of this is after two draft and FA classes, and the blockbuster OBJ trade.
Acid - I think a second draft WR is not necessary. You still have Tate, Slayton, and a draft pick. That's w/o Sheppard.
You've got Engram - for better or worse - at TE.
Not that you don't go there, but those are areas that are at least satisfied for 2020.
Coaching is critical in the NFL. Our players, as individuals, are not as bad as the results they are getting. As a team, you are what your record says you are.
My thoughts
Gettleman is fine as GM.
Improve pro-personel scouting department to do better in FA evaluation.
Hire and pay for top-notch assistant coaches. Especially at OL and DL. Line coaches are very often the personalities that drive a team's energy.
Improve defensive personnel at LB and S. These positions are tone setters. Think Ray Lewis, LT, Harry Carson, Ronnie Lott, Ed Reed, etc...
Improve OL on offense. Again, they set the tone.
We are not many years away, but I keep seeing the same mistakes. Slow starts (understatement of the year), a lack of discipline. There needs to be more attention to detail. The schemes don't matter if you don't play with passion.
Put simply, the best teams have a swarming defense and a physical offense. We have neither.
I actually think a new head coach with a different play calling/system philosophy will make our current offensive line look a lot better. Combined with a new line coach and strength program.
You guys are going to hear me harp on these things until I'm blue in the face: defense... offensive line.
Fix those two.
Eric, I agree, the OL needs to be fixed. But Barkley is not the same guy post injury as I'm sure you can see.
What we do know is his pass protection has been inexcusable. Parcells would have benched him.
Is your head coach someone you honestly see winning a Super Bowl? If not, you move on.
Shurmur ran the ball almost 50% of the time in Minnesota. Maybe that was Zimmer influenced. He also had way more boots, rolls with the QB. The current offense is nothing like what he ran in Minnesota.
Neither is the talent of a single offensive lineman, WR, or versatile TE - but other than that comparing Shurmur's offense in MIN and his here is completely spot on.
There's no doubt that we need one that's a helluva lot better than the one we have.
Ditto for the OL.
At this point, I'd settle for marginally better for either.
While I agree that is likely the idiotic plan, that is just more of the same. A guy essentially over-exposed and brain washed to tenets of the "Giants Way".
That is the LAST thing we need if we jettison DG. We need a young, new voice, new ideas with ZERO ties to Jints Central.
Otherwise, this insanity ain't changin'...
And I love how the recommendations are broken down.
This article reminds me yesteryear sports stories that CBS and NYDN would have on occasion. Not just angry posts or stupid tweets.
I would hope the organization has the sense to see their problems. But these days I don't know.
Yes and no. Figureheads have changed and some small changes to scouting staff. But for the most part, the organizational structure is the same with many of the same players doing the same things they've always done.
While I agree that is likely the idiotic plan, that is just more of the same. A guy essentially over-exposed and brain washed to tenets of the "Giants Way".
That is the LAST thing we need if we jettison DG. We need a young, new voice, new ideas with ZERO ties to Jints Central.
Otherwise, this insanity ain't changin'...
bw, we knew Gettleman was going to be the GM. Abrams is going to be the next guy. It is what it is.
There's no doubt that we need one that's a helluva lot better than the one we have.
Ditto for the OL.
At this point, I'd settle for marginally better for either.
If I used the word "great", I didn't mean to (I don't think I did). Asking for "greatness" gets into the fanciful thinking area. I am simply asking for a good, solid defense that beats up the other team.
How long are you going to give the new regime? You think they can fix all this in a year? A year and a half? Two?
Because I think anything less than three years is absurd, yet that's exactly what you're expecting from this current regime - and this current regime will have left the team in MUCH better shape than did the regime before it.
What you need to see is progress. There is not a date by which the club is "fixed." The alternative is you guarantee them three years and essentially there is no accountability for the first few.
I would disagree that DG/PS are leaving this team better than they found it. The inherited a mess and they still have a mess.
What we do know is his pass protection has been inexcusable. Parcells would have benched him.
Agreed. I think Parcells would have benched him. He's being run over, and not just by DL, but also by safeties.
That's why they have to play him - any young player that can show something is one less piece they have to address in the draft or FA during the off season. They don't have to start - they just have to show that they are roster worthy. Create competition at every position during camp - get some real game tape on these guys so they can improve - start freakin building a team for next year now so we aren't behind the 8 ball all the time.
Play Gates - if he shows he can hang at RT - GREAT if not, we know it needs addressing.
Play Gallman - SB is hurting - is Gallman the answer as #2 back if so GREAT - if not - let's address it
Play Ballentine, play Beal, and anyone else that might be part of the future and let's see what they can do.
Activate some of these guys off the practice squad. They're going to need a 4th and 5th WR next year - is that guy on the roster now? Maybe - but we'll never freakin' know if they don't play. They're going to need guys that can play ST.
Don't give another freakin minute to JAGS like Bethea, Michael Thomas, Cody Latimer, Mike Remmers, Bennie Freakin' Fowler (are you serious - dude is 28 yrs old - why is he playing at all?).
The Giants season is over - let's be forward thinking NOW and see what else is on this roster can/wants to play.
Oh by the way - they haven't done this ANY of the last two years when they sucked just as bad.
FRUSTRATION.
What does that mean exactly? A general strategy that is asked of whoever is coaching the team? Sure seems that way. The Giants D is a perfect example: Spags is a blitz happy aggressive guy from the JJ tree and gets here and drops 7 much of the time. Bettcher is a blitz happy guy from AZ who plays press man. Gets here and does the exact same thing Spags did.
Are these guys being told to play the Rod Rust bend don't break style? We've been watching the Giants Way recipe for years, heard Tom & Eli say it many times: Keep the game close and try to win in the 4th quarter. Bend don't break plays right into it. I even remember Coughlin talking about a New York Giants Playbook that seems to transcend coaches.
I don't see how the next GM isn't Abrams so given that and Gettleman's age, they may as well make the switch next year and focus on the new head coach.
Everything below assumes I can't get BB, Saban or John Harbaugh. If I could, I would move heaven and earth to do so.
I don't lean offense or defense but if we're talking about coordinators, I'd take a long look at the crop of special teams coordinators. Their jobs most closely resemble the head coach role in managing multiple units rather than a singular focus. I don't want another "QB guru" to come in and miss the big picture like Shurmur has.
My Head Coach search would include 3 special teams coordinators, a couple who have great reputations with units that perform year in and year out, and another we are more familiar with from his time as a player here and has his unit in the top 10 according to football outsiders. I think this is a really interesting group.
Dave Toub
John Fassel
Chase Blackburn
I would also love to talk to Kris Richard.
He has an excellent body of work in both Seattle and Dallas and seems to have really taken over the majority of the calls from Marinelli for a terrific Dallas defense. Taking from Dallas is another obvious benefit here.
My top choice however is probably Dan Campbell. Has played for Parcells and coached next to Payton for years now. I like the idea of Parcells>>Payton>>Campbell and I have to believe a lot of the football philosophies are in line. If you can get a guy like Payton without his douche personality you've got a hell of a football coach.
Since I disagree with a lot of the opinions stated above, like that the online of Solder, Hernandez, Pio, Zeitler and Remmers is no better than the Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart line was.
Points like that OL of 2017 giving up instant sacks, sacks that poured through the A gaps, and this line operates in front of a QB who's still in diapers reading the field and often holds the ball too long, details like that matter and make the arguments like "the OL still sucks" disingenuous.
Dangerously disingenuous. Or that pulling the plug on DG after 2 seasons is ridiculous when to many eyes the drafts look much much better than Reese's Ross's were...
So Carter and Hill haven't lived up to our hopes? Again how do they compare with Jerrel Jernigan and Ramses Barden?
Two of those 4 guys are indeed NFL players and the other two were not!
Finding the biggest pitchfork and taking a stance at the front of the mob isn't exactly a heroic act IMO, and I neither laud nor agree with it.
Even if I'm seriously concerned about Pat Shurmer as HC.
LOL on the mixed metaphor... I should have caught that.
The Giants are stuck in a time warp. The best teams in the NFL are not run by powerful all knowing GMs who shape and mold championship teams from the cushy confines of the front office. The best teams are run by Head Coaches that dictate the culture of the entire organization from staff, to scouts, to players and salaries. Belicheck does not answer to a GM. Neither does Sean Payton Andy Reid or Pete Carroll.
In my mind the best thing that Mara/Tisch can do to modernize the team is hire the best HC available that can come in immediately and develop Jones, while at the same time installing a relentless work ethic and hungry attitude throughout the entire organization to find, train and develop the best players at every level. In my mind that would be someone like Josh McDaniels or Lincoln Riley, but regardless the HC needs to have input on whover is running the front office.
Putzing around with another life-long Giants front office suit as GM would just be another couple years wasted expecting different results.
This is top of the problem, unless Mara breaks this, all the rest of the piece will just be the same sputtering process. Change your ways and we might see things change for the better. Period
Eli carried this team on his back during the erosion of talent. Now we are headed in the right direction. some of the needed parts are on the roster and most certainly some are not.
This will be addressed thru free agency and draft again. What I like is the team does seem to have a good attitude on the field and even though they constantly shoot themselves in the foot -rookies mistakes mostly and a serious lack of talent at linebacker and edge rushers they keep fighting to win. You don't pull the plug on that -even if the record is horrid.
In fact im glad we will be getting another high draft pick.. another potential blue chip to add. One of the frustrating things for me was team stayed middle of field for drafts when they really needed to be at the top.
I do agree that we need to rebuild our scouting system especially when it comes to the line and linebackers but they did a much better the last 2 years. So chill relax and don't let the frustrations of the last regime upset you.
About Betcher -everyone wanted him and Arians said he was a stud D coach. I believe him. He too needs time
Shurmur needs to get a team together before he can be judged.
Don't forget most of you hated Accorsi, Young, Parcells, Belichek, Coughlin Spags too. It takes time.
But it's not getting better.
The offensive line and defense are getting worse with each game. Saquon is already affected. Soon Daniel Jones will be impacted too (folks are legitimately concerned about the fumbles, but he's getting clobbered back there).
Gettleman said his #1 priority was Hog Mollies. He's failed miserably.
Since I disagree with a lot of the opinions stated above, like that the online of Solder, Hernandez, Pio, Zeitler and Remmers is no better than the Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry, Hart line was.
Points like that OL of 2017 giving up instant sacks, sacks that poured through the A gaps, and this line operates in front of a QB who's still in diapers reading the field and often holds the ball too long, details like that matter and make the arguments like "the OL still sucks" disingenuous.
Dangerously disingenuous. Or that pulling the plug on DG after 2 seasons is ridiculous when to many eyes the drafts look much much better than Reese's Ross's were...
So Carter and Hill haven't lived up to our hopes? Again how do they compare with Jerrel Jernigan and Ramses Barden?
Two of those 4 guys are indeed NFL players and the other two were not!
Finding the biggest pitchfork and taking a stance at the front of the mob isn't exactly a heroic act IMO, and I neither laud nor agree with it.
Even if I'm seriously concerned about Pat Shurmer as HC.
Excellent points
But it's not getting better.
The offensive line and defense are getting worse with each game. Saquon is already affected. Soon Daniel Jones will be impacted too (folks are legitimately concerned about the fumbles, but he's getting clobbered back there).
Gettleman said his #1 priority was Hog Mollies. He's failed miserably.
It looks better to me. First we are NOT getting blown off the field as soon as the game starts. This QB has had time to scan the field much more than ELi the last 2 yrs. The hog mollies -we drafted 2 one is playing and looks the part the other we traded for -a very unpopular trade but has now been proven to be correct same with drafting QB DJ. Solder was a stop gap that was needed -Flowers was getting killed. Omemah was a cheap shot that didn't worked -but he wanted Norwell who went to Jax instead. Kid looked pretty good last week at RT and Id like to see some playing time for big George too -but that's for next year.
Saquon is hurt -he is playing hurt he doesn't have the burst or strength he had before the injury -he will be fine but it might be awhile.
The DL played well and I like the parts added Williams was a good get. Our LBrs are trash. Ogletree was a need for someone in the middle to call out the Defense. I would have rather gone a different direction but Betcher needed someone. Same reason why sign Bethea. The Rookies tho look ok -growing pains sure but not getting blown off the field. We need LBrs!!!! We have needed them since Gettleman signed Antonio Pierce.
But expecting this team to quickly become a playyyyyoff team is unrealistic.
The Jets - who were averaging about 12 points per game - just marched and down the field against the Giants.
Barkley got one yard on 13 carries. Gallman had two yards.
And it arrow has been pointing down the past six games in both of these areas.
I don't want any parts of Matt Rhule or Robert Saleh or Kris Richard.
No up and coming hot commodity coordinator or college coach non-sense.
Grow a set and hire a legend.
Do everything you can to lure Saban to the Giants. Do everything you can to convince Bill Cowher to come out of retirement.
Get a guy that you KNOW will win. Do it right this time.
Wake up.
They trade for and use picks on the DL, Lawrence, Williams, Tomlinson, Hill. But it's not fixed.
Because these things are never fixed, they have to keep spending more and more resources which further neglects other positions. Resources are finite.
It's a real problem for this team. Every year is like groundhogs day.
Wake up.
And without - supposedly - their best pass rusher, LW.
Who we stupidly, and that can't be underscored enough, traded for.
As great as the Steelers trade was for Fitzpatrick, our trade for LW was the complete opposite - tragically dumb.
Quote:
26 games is not a lot of time.
But it's not getting better.
The offensive line and defense are getting worse with each game. Saquon is already affected. Soon Daniel Jones will be impacted too (folks are legitimately concerned about the fumbles, but he's getting clobbered back there).
Gettleman said his #1 priority was Hog Mollies. He's failed miserably.
It looks better to me. First we are NOT getting blown off the field as soon as the game starts. This QB has had time to scan the field much more than ELi the last 2 yrs. The hog mollies -we drafted 2 one is playing and looks the part the other we traded for -a very unpopular trade but has now been proven to be correct same with drafting QB DJ. Solder was a stop gap that was needed -Flowers was getting killed. Omemah was a cheap shot that didn't worked -but he wanted Norwell who went to Jax instead. Kid looked pretty good last week at RT and Id like to see some playing time for big George too -but that's for next year.
Saquon is hurt -he is playing hurt he doesn't have the burst or strength he had before the injury -he will be fine but it might be awhile.
The DL played well and I like the parts added Williams was a good get. Our LBrs are trash. Ogletree was a need for someone in the middle to call out the Defense. I would have rather gone a different direction but Betcher needed someone. Same reason why sign Bethea. The Rookies tho look ok -growing pains sure but not getting blown off the field. We need LBrs!!!! We have needed them since Gettleman signed Antonio Pierce.
But expecting this team to quickly become a playyyyyoff team is unrealistic.
As for the OL, Solder has not been better than Flowers, which is saying a lot. But, we are paying him as a top OL. Hernandez seems to have regressed, or at the very least not gotten any better. We have no viable OC, Zeitler is a good, but not special RG, and Remmers is as bad as Solder at RT. We have no viable depth to replace the 3 stiffs.
This has contributed greatly to Barkley doing nothing for a few weeks and Jones continually under pressure.
The D is absolutely putrid. There is no better way to describe them. And trading a 3rd round pick (assuming we re-sign him) for a FA who has underwhelmed the team that traded him at #6 was beyond stupid. If he plays decently for us, it drives up his asking price, which is already high, without having any real impact on the outcome of this season. If they liked him so much, they should have allowed him to continue to get double teamed on the Jets and pay less for him in FA.
I want to say yes. But that would create a lot of acrimony.
He's going to want $17M+.