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| Garrett is familiar with the New York/New Jersey market, albeit not as a coach. But he is definitely familiar with coaching under pressure. He plays for an owner/GM, Jones, who is frequently and publicly candid with his analysis of the Cowboys’ performance. Pressure in this market wouldn’t be an issue for Garrett. And it’s not like he’d have to worry about his GM or owner publicly assessing him on a regular basis, since Dave Gettleman and Mara don’t speak to reporters nearly as often as Jones. |
Enough with those fucking narratives.
You of all people shouldn't be accusing others of spinning narratives.
The Giants might be the worst football team in the league right now and Dallas has 2 wins against us and only leads us by 3 wins. they have 5 wins on the season, 2 against the Giants, 1 against Washington, 1 against Miami and 1 against the eagles which was a good win.
They lost to the Jets. They lost to every good team they have played except the Eagles. Shurmur could have 5 wins with that roster and I think he would have more. hard pass.
You have asserted several times that no good coach will work with Gettleman.
And you've been saying it over and over again. This isn't the principle where if you say something over and over again without evidence that it becomes true.
And this isn't just a Gettleman issue. In general, is it attractive to top head coach candidates to have a GM foisted on them?
That's what this organization excels at: creating fall guys.
It's likely the case for 3/4ths of the league because you don't always have dual switches of the positions. In fact, you rarely do.
You think that most NFL teams with separate GM's & HC's also have the same hire date?
I have no statistics but it seems like common sense the majority wouldn't.
The Panthers aren't on the same timeline. Falcons on different timelines. Saints.
But at least there's factual evidence that the timelines often don't mesh. Unlike the assertion that no good coach will work for Gettleman.
Why we should give him the chance to hire another is also something for which we have no evidence.
Why we should give him the chance to hire another is also something for which we have no evidence.
Well, since McDaniel went to Tenn and then quickly quit and went back to daddy in New England and Patricia chose the Lions, I fail to see what option Gettleman had. I don't remember the narrative being that PS was a bad choice being the common thought process. Turns out he is a bad choice, but that is ex post facto.
Why we should give him the chance to hire another is also something for which we have no evidence.
Has every good GM hit on a good HC 100% of the time?
IMO it could do more harm than good to fire a GM after only two seasons only to then have to give the new man brought in the proper time to see his vision through, one which often undoes much of what his predecessor had put into place. That's a formula for a lot more years of losing. GM's need time to see their vision through and in DG's case that is even compounded because not only was he tasked with rebuilding a team left woefully thin of talent, but that he also had to find and replace a franchise QB.
The Giants problem was giving Reese too much time but you can't out of frustration make that worse by not giving the next guy enough time.
He did, or his play caller?
The reason that I'd fire him at the culmination of this season is for the assessment he made either prior to (perhaps as a precedent of being hired) or upon being hired that this team was in a strong enough position heading into the 2018 season that it was advisable to not only commit to Eli at QB, but to make significant short term resource allocations to players like Solder, Ogletree, Omameh, Martin. And then to basically do the same thing over again once 2018 was an abject failure.
The amount of available resources in this upcoming offseason is too significant to be entrusted to someone who made such an assessment of this roster 2 years ago.
Proof?
Gettleman hasn't been a good GM here. He's been terrible. If we're so concerned with evidence, where's the evidence that he will stop being terrible?
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Proof?
Nobody can prove that, and I doubt even Rhule himself would answer either way 100% without first meeting with the organization, and then listing to their offer.
It's a silly comment.
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Proof?
I think he and the Jets hit an impasse over management structure. I don't recall what the specifics were, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he preferred more control over personnel decision than the current process at Jints Central.
Hopefully someone keeps me honest on that thought...
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In comment 14678845 Go Terps said:
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Proof?
I think he and the Jets hit an impasse over management structure. I don't recall what the specifics were, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he preferred more control over personnel decision than the current process at Jints Central.
Hopefully someone keeps me honest on that thought...
I believe it was the hiring of certain assistants.
I don't think DG has that directive.
The reason that I'd fire him at the culmination of this season is for the assessment he made either prior to (perhaps as a precedent of being hired) or upon being hired that this team was in a strong enough position heading into the 2018 season that it was advisable to not only commit to Eli at QB, but to make significant short term resource allocations to players like Solder, Ogletree, Omameh, Martin. And then to basically do the same thing over again once 2018 was an abject failure.
The amount of available resources in this upcoming offseason is too significant to be entrusted to someone who made such an assessment of this roster 2 years ago.
Seems like you are saying that Mara had a hand in hiring Shurmur (I think a big one) but then he told Dave to handle everything else? Really does not make sense. I think it is very likely Mara told Dave and Pat to fix the line as best as possible with Eli the QB. Hence Solder
I fully support the HC and GM hat being worn by one guy. I don't like the division of responsibilities. I think it's ancient.
HCs in college chooses his own players, not the AD. They know exactly what they want to fit their system. Pro game should be the same way. The key there, then, is getting a capable staff of assistant who can on more responsibility so the HC can run the team like a CEO.
I fully support the HC and GM hat being worn by one guy. I don't like the division of responsibilities. I think it's ancient.
HCs in college chooses his own players, not the AD. They know exactly what they want to fit their system. Pro game should be the same way. The key there, then, is getting a capable staff of assistant who can on more responsibility so the HC can run the team like a CEO.
It's a ton of responsibility, and not many teams are doing it in the NFL.
Plus..the college game and NFL game, in terms of preparation.......it's night and day.
I agree. It's bucking a lot of the accepted practices in the NFL.
But what we are doing now it's working. So I think it would be worth the stretch with the right candidate to try it.
Look, it's all academic because I know Mara would never adjust his thinking to move in this direction.
judging anytype of sucess on SBs is silly.
The pats winning every other year skews everything.
FYI to the earlier point - the seahawks coach and GM were on the same time line
Reid and Dorsey both started in KC at the same time but dorsey was later canned
I just don't want him as the head coach of the Giants.
So then don't fucking read it.
I first mentioned Garrett as the most likely next coach months ago. Here we are.
I'm done rationalizing and making excuses for the pathetic way this team is run. Sorry if it hurts the delicate sensibilities of some here that want to lie to themselves about things like Gettleman being a good GM.
Im sure if Rex Ryan were offered a Dc coach for giants we could turn the d around. Ryan had good defenses just garbage on offense with the Jets. OC and HC I wouldnt mind McDaniels or someone with a better sense of mind calling plays
In comment 14678942 section125 said:
Quote:
Gettleman had only had to hire one coach, and that hire has been a catastrophic failure.
Why we should give him the chance to hire another is also something for which we have no evidence.
Well, since McDaniel went to Tenn and then quickly quit and went back to daddy in New England and Patricia chose the Lions, I fail to see what option Gettleman had. I don't remember the narrative being that PS was a bad choice being the common thought process. Turns out he is a bad choice, but that is ex post facto.
That would put him in tune with DG but not in a good way.
Also recall that Louis Riddick made a comment after his GM interview with NYG that he got the impression that his prospective employers wanted the Giants to be a running team.
In the room would have been the Maras, Abrams and Accorsi.
Link is to SB Nation site criticism of Garrett.
blogging the boys - ( New Window )
b goff - ( New Window )
I'm not in favor of Garrett, but if that's the past, ill take it!
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for the Shurmur hire since we know what a significant role ownership insists on playing in that regard.
The reason that I'd fire him at the culmination of this season is for the assessment he made either prior to (perhaps as a precedent of being hired) or upon being hired that this team was in a strong enough position heading into the 2018 season that it was advisable to not only commit to Eli at QB, but to make significant short term resource allocations to players like Solder, Ogletree, Omameh, Martin. And then to basically do the same thing over again once 2018 was an abject failure.
The amount of available resources in this upcoming offseason is too significant to be entrusted to someone who made such an assessment of this roster 2 years ago.
Seems like you are saying that Mara had a hand in hiring Shurmur (I think a big one) but then he told Dave to handle everything else? Really does not make sense. I think it is very likely Mara told Dave and Pat to fix the line as best as possible with Eli the QB. Hence Solder
I don't think Mara "meddles" as everyone suggests.
But we know for a fact that he is heavily involved in the head coach selection.
It is also my personal belief that keeping Eli as the QB for 2018 was a pre-requisite in the GM/HC selection process. But there is nothing to prove that (or disprove, that, I might add), so I won't insist on that.
But either way my take is he should be fired.
If he was just the figurehead to carry out what Mara decided and build the rest of the roster --> plan failed, short-term roster build-out failed, opportunity of offseason 2020 is too big to risk on a regime that has given little reason for hope.
If it was his own judgement that 'spend $ now to try and win with Eli' was a realistic approach --> gross miscalculation and cannot be entrusted with the opportunity of the 2020 offseason.
I'm not in favor of Garrett, but if that's the past, ill take it!
Given the rapidity of your posting, I'm sure you didn't take the time to read.
The Forbes article criticizes Garrett's unwillingness to recognize and adapt to the relative strengths of the weapons available to him on a given team in a given year. It contrasts that with the Patriots' success under BB with a variety of approaches.
The SB nation article praises the Vikings use of Cook while criticizing Garrett's stubbornness in the use of Elliott.
They don't need a milquetoast coach like Garrett, they need someone who's going to get in the players faces and demand perfection.
I'd also consider hiring Tom Coughlin as the next GM.
I trust his evaluations about players, and I like how strict TC and BC both are when dealing with their players.
I want Giants Pride to return, right now is buried under bulls**t!
Thanks Mara! Shut up, stay out of the way....just sign the checks and sit in the background.
They don't need a milquetoast coach like Garrett, they need someone who's going to get in the players faces and demand perfection.
I'd also consider hiring Tom Coughlin as the next GM.
I trust his evaluations about players, and I like how strict TC and BC both are when dealing with their players.
I want Giants Pride to return, right now is buried under bulls**t!
Thanks Mara! Shut up, stay out of the way....just sign the checks and sit in the background.
I do wonder if Cowher looks at Gruden is doing and gets an itch.
Link - ( New Window )
Yes, agree it goes: BB, Payton, Fox then Garrett last.
agree completely with you about a hard ass teacher type coach..