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Lack of Daniel Jones in the Run Game

Young Elijah : 11/13/2019 12:11 pm
I think this needs to go pretty high on the list of Shurmur blunders these last 2 months.

I understand we want to develop Jones as a passer, and he has shown that ability in some bright flashes. But I have noticed too many opportunities for him to use designed runs to move the chains and Shurmur just does not make the call.

From what we have seen from Jones both with his arm and his legs, we should be salivating and the play-calling potential he allows our coaching staff - but the calls are the same vanilla that Kurt Cousins and the likes are running. An additional byproduct is that Barkley has every obvious running lane stuffed, and edge rushers can make backside tackles because they never have to respect the threat of Jones keeping it. All in all, I think this glaring point highlights the ineptitude of the staff, lack of willingness to invoate, and shows that the future with this staff would be bleak if they continue running the show. The game is evolving, we look to have the perfect QB to help us evolve with it, and we don't utilize 50% of his skillset.

Lastly, pls don't give me that "we need him to avoid injury" nonsense, Jones is a sitting duck at the top of his drops if its anything more than a 3 step...so this would actually help protect him because the only thing that could hit him, would be in front of him due to his speed.

What say you...
it makes no sense  
Chip : 11/13/2019 12:14 pm : link
Running QBs don't last in this league.
The lack of [designed] movement in the pocket is mind-blowing  
regulator : 11/13/2019 12:20 pm : link
I don't want him taking unnecessary hits by turning him into a "runner".

But his athleticism needs to be better-utilized, especially in view of the situation with our tackles.
I'm fine with incorporating QB runs into  
Section331 : 11/13/2019 12:21 pm : link
the gameplan, but not when we're 2-8. There is no need to subject DJ to punishment for an extra win or 2 in a lost season.
Agree w young E  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 12:22 pm : link
But, it does not even seem like there's a single run play on the menu even for running backs right now.

They plastered together a few gimmick plays, slayton jet sweep, which worked

But the bread and butter apparently doesn't involve any run blocking whatsoever right now.
it makes a TON of sense  
mattlawson : 11/13/2019 12:23 pm : link
How often are we going to run the RPO and continue to hand it off? Dak, Russel wilson, lamar - they are doing designed plays and winning games this way. It is maddening.

No coaching, no vision, no pulse, no balls.
RE: I'm fine with incorporating QB runs into  
mattlawson : 11/13/2019 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14678735 Section331 said:
Quote:
the gameplan, but not when we're 2-8. There is no need to subject DJ to punishment for an extra win or 2 in a lost season.


it hasnt been there ALL SEASON.
RE: it makes no sense  
Ira : 11/13/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14678723 Chip said:
Quote:
Running QBs don't last in this league.


This.
RE: RE: I'm fine with incorporating QB runs into  
Section331 : 11/13/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14678747 mattlawson said:
Quote:
In comment 14678735 Section331 said:


Quote:


the gameplan, but not when we're 2-8. There is no need to subject DJ to punishment for an extra win or 2 in a lost season.



it hasnt been there ALL SEASON.


Did you miss the TB game?
Running QBs are trouble.  
Red Dog : 11/13/2019 12:29 pm : link
Running QBs get hurt, sometimes with career-shortening consequences.

And running QBs don't win championships.

It's OK to run when the play breaks down, and an occasional QB sneak isn't the end of the world IF you have a big, tough QB, but generally I don't want to see the QB running with the ball.
RE: it makes no sense  
UConn4523 : 11/13/2019 12:32 pm : link
In comment 14678723 Chip said:
Quote:
Running QBs don't last in this league.


It makes plenty of sense. Running doesn't need to equal RG3. Jones should be running more, in a controlled and specific way.

And it would help his passing by buying himself much needed time in the pocket.
RE: RE: it makes no sense  
Young Elijah : 11/13/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14678769 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14678723 Chip said:


Quote:


Running QBs don't last in this league.



It makes plenty of sense. Running doesn't need to equal RG3. Jones should be running more, in a controlled and specific way.

And it would help his passing by buying himself much needed time in the pocket.


This.

I never said I want a running QB. I want a QB that runs - sounds the same, huge difference.

The THREAT of the run alone is a huge assist to the offense.

Also, whoever the next coach is will definitely be implementing more runs and Jones needs to practice sliding and making good decisions outside of the pocket. Now when he runs, its all unscripted and semi-scary because he's a bit wreckless and we need him to improve.
Ravens, 9ers, also rpo teams looking good r.now  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 12:40 pm : link
What gets QBs killed is vanilla drop backs and 100% it's a vanilla pass protection scheme on any 3rd and 8 like clockwork.

Even if 9ers, Ravens, falcons and rpo teams are gimmicky, that success buys you a few years to invest in defense. While that 'gimmick' functions.

Because Macadoo ball, which is what this still looks like, doesn't help the OL develop one bit and has led to 22 sack for Jones already not counting Manning
Russell Wilson  
UConn4523 : 11/13/2019 12:41 pm : link
just beat the best defense in the league, on the road, essentially due to his mobility. That long run on 3rd and 3 with a minute left in OT put them in FG range.
Remember  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 12:42 pm : link
"progression not revolution"

Bad fucking idea.
I have genuine fear of DJ fumbling when he takes off and runs  
penkap75 : 11/13/2019 12:47 pm : link
Especially when he doesn't slide and decides to fight for yards.
The ideal comp might be more matt Ryan  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 12:57 pm : link
400 rushes so far, 1,225 yards, averaged 3.1 career do far

But it's part of what makes his system function, plus the counter side roll out passes coupled with a burst type rb to the other edge.

Any of those 3 in any given formation and any given down and distance ..keep the lbs moving east or west
As someone said  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 1:01 pm : link
Designed counter side runs can be safer than scrambles or sacks due to space has been cleared and defenders momentum is going away from the play.
Maybe mastering the ball security part of the game  
John In CO : 11/13/2019 1:06 pm : link
might be in order before more runs are drawn up for DJ.
The planned runs that Jones has executed  
Section331 : 11/13/2019 1:08 pm : link
were QB option plays, so we don't know how often that play was called and DJ handed off. I can think of a number of planned run by DJ, including one in the Jets game. You don't need to call many, just enough to make the defense think about it.
I don't like  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/13/2019 1:09 pm : link
tall QB's with designed runs. Get him rolled out with pass first option but the threat to make a SAFE run if he has daylight. This would really pressure LB's and secondary and assist in giving more separation for the receivers.
RE: I'm fine with incorporating QB runs into  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 11/13/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14678735 Section331 said:
Quote:
the gameplan, but not when we're 2-8. There is no need to subject DJ to punishment for an extra win or 2 in a lost season.

He's going to take a lot more abuse in the pocket with this coaching scheme and blockers.

Another sigh of Shroomer's inability to adjust to context and situation. Yes you don't wan't your QB getting killed running all day, but what is the alternative, which is worse? 8 and 6 sacks against the Cards and Jets respectively?
He is getting killed in the pocket, so running might be a better optio  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/13/2019 1:16 pm : link
that being said I was watching the DE on those zone reads and the DE on the Jets did not crash down, they kept their eye on JOnes until he gave the ball away.

And they STILL stoned the run.
RE: I have genuine fear of DJ fumbling when he takes off and runs  
Young Elijah : 11/13/2019 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14678795 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Especially when he doesn't slide and decides to fight for yards.


Right, because the pocket has proven a safe haven of ball security lol
.  
moespree : 11/13/2019 1:21 pm : link
It's true running QBs appear to be more prone to injury but Jones doesn't need to run around like Michael Vick either. I agree with the OP that Jones has not used his legs enough. There's been a number of occasions since he started playing this season where the play winds up for either no gain or a sack loss where Jones could have stepped up and ran 4 or 5 yards.

That's better than no gain or a loss. And that's also not the equivalent of running around in circles and getting tossed around like the injury prone running QBs do.
RE: RE: I have genuine fear of DJ fumbling when he takes off and runs  
penkap75 : 11/13/2019 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14678857 Young Elijah said:
Quote:
In comment 14678795 penkap75 said:


Quote:


Especially when he doesn't slide and decides to fight for yards.



Right, because the pocket has proven a safe haven of ball security lol


I also have genuine fear when he holds on to the ball too long in the pocket and has zero awareness of the rush thats about to strip sack him.
I'm really not worried abuot fumbles  
UConn4523 : 11/13/2019 1:22 pm : link
they suck but so do INT's and not moving the ball at all. So i'm fine designing runs for Jones to get the offense moving. If he fumbles, so bet it.
Mobile and Running  
richinpa : 11/13/2019 1:23 pm : link

We don't need a running QB or would need to keep Eli around for 20M as our backup as Jones won't make it with the amount of record sacks we give up , hits and also making him a running QB

Whats smart to do is some designed roll outs when its needed! Element of surprise in 2nd and 6 when Saquan is finally steam rolling and ya go hard right with the fake handoff and he scoots left for 10 yarda AND LEARNS HOW TO SLIDE

On mobility- he needs to use his feet more to get to a mental clock of 3 or 4 and then move out of harms way if possible. That mobility +sliding is what we have been after for years . (see Eli, kerry collins etc..)
Fumbles are worse than ints  
giants_10_88 : 11/13/2019 3:14 pm : link
imo. Fumbles in your own territory leads to points for the opposing team. Fumbles in the other teams territory takes points off the board. But a lot of ints just end up being like punts.
In his first game  
Matt M. : 11/13/2019 5:02 pm : link
there were a couple of designed runs via RPO, with one resulting in a tD. Since then, it is all scrambles. A designed run or run option wouldn't be a terrible idea a couple of times a game.
RE: Fumbles are worse than ints  
UConn4523 : 11/13/2019 5:04 pm : link
In comment 14679051 giants_10_88 said:
Quote:
imo. Fumbles in your own territory leads to points for the opposing team. Fumbles in the other teams territory takes points off the board. But a lot of ints just end up being like punts.


Sure but many happen in the pocket. I feel better about him in the open as he's able to prep for and hopefully avoid contact.
I keep saying matt Ryan, falcons , shanny jr  
idiotsavant : 11/13/2019 5:21 pm : link
Folks act as if we are too blue chip an organization to settle for such a base low hanging fruit concept.

But really? Are we though?

And those quicky outside zone runs. 10 in a row by vikes vs cowholders.

Those are nifty for counter side roll outs and designed qb counter runs.

It's not wild scramblings.
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