Constant turnover is a nightmare and totally impedes success. IF IF IF either of these guys has it in them to become good coaches of a good team they have to skin their knees, take their lumps and learn as they go and grow with the team. I don't love it, I think SHurmur should go but I get the idea of letting them see if they can right this thing and not reboot every 2 years.
RE: i was going to start a separate thread on this Â
Do these owners, as wealthy as they are, simply not want to pay these guys out when firing them so they opt to keep them instead?
I have asked this as well and the only response I saw was "absolutely no bearing". I think with Mara it is a consideration. Firing Shumur is probably a 25 million plus expense with all the assistants. I know Mara is the "owner" but I thought Wellington had 11 kids. Aren't they each a owner as well?
They just brought him over right before training camp started and he's friends with Gase. The thing is if Gase was out there and available and you let Joe Douglas (the new GM) hire his own coach...he'd probably have hired Gase.
My guess is the owner decided they say they will work well together and have the same opinions on things so lets give both of them an offseason together to see what happens in 2020.
The Jets are paying Bowles through 2020. If they let Gase go, not only would they be giving up on him, but they would be paying THREE head coaches next year.
RE: Shurmur has been a head coach for four seasons Â
He’s 17-42 and has never led a remotely competitive team. How much runway does he need?
We need to stop quoting what Shurmur's record was in Cleveland (i.e. career coaching totals) for 2 reasons:
1. They hired him knowing that record.
2. The circumstances in Cleveland were horrific at the time he was there, and I don't believe anyone was going to win in that situation.
I am more concerned about his 7-19 record with the Giants, a record that will probably be dramatically worse by season's end. That would be enough evidence that it's time to move on from him.
BTW, I liked the hire of Shurmur at the time, and going into this season supported him. I now believe he's had the chance to show what he can do, but it's probably best to cut bait now so Jones can have the next 3-10 years in one system and coach.
We need to stop quoting what Shurmur's record was in Cleveland (i.e. career coaching totals) for 2 reasons:
1. They hired him knowing that record.
2. The circumstances in Cleveland were horrific at the time he was there, and I don't believe anyone was going to win in that situation.
1. His Browns record is part of his head coaching career. It's fair game, and it was a valid concern many had when the Giants hired him. Shurmur demonstrated in Cleveland that he couldn't improve a bad situation. So...the Giants hire him to improve their bad situation?
2. Were the "horrific circumstances" in Cleveland the reason for the terrible game/clock management skills he exhibited over those two seasons? The 2011-2012 Browns didn't lose a lot more than they won solely because of a dearth in roster talent. Shurmur being in-over-his-head was a big part of it, too. He didn't coach up the players he had, and he didn't put them in game situations that would keep them competitive.
I don't get all the Gase hate, albeit I don't see that much of the Â
Jets, but I never thought he was a bad coach for the Dolphins. Had a QB that was constantly injured, and when he wasn't he was barely starter level quality. His record sucks this year, but his starting QB had mono, and he has a RB contract that he doesn't even want. The GM and him were not on the same page at all.
RE: I don't get all the Gase hate, albeit I don't see that much of the Â
Jets, but I never thought he was a bad coach for the Dolphins. Had a QB that was constantly injured, and when he wasn't he was barely starter level quality. His record sucks this year, but his starting QB had mono, and he has a RB contract that he doesn't even want. The GM and him were not on the same page at all.
Every year in Miami he found a way to compete against the Pats with far inferior talent.. I don't think he is half as bad as PS..
It is worth quoting Shurmur's record in Cleveland Â
Because he said he learned from the mistakes he made while coaching there. There's no evidence that is true however as he continues to make similar mistakes he made there. In fact one could even potentially argue he did a better job coaching there than he has here so far. A thought that is impossible to even fathom.
one less team to compete with in our (hopefully) coaching search... Â
Jets, but I never thought he was a bad coach for the Dolphins. Had a QB that was constantly injured, and when he wasn't he was barely starter level quality. His record sucks this year, but his starting QB had mono, and he has a RB contract that he doesn't even want. The GM and him were not on the same page at all.
Gase is soundly criticized because he's never once developed an NFL quarterback to overachieve, despite some odd perception of being a "QB guru." His teams don't just lose a lot, but get blown out a lot. He has basically admitted that his focus is on his passing offense, despite being a head coach. He has a history of alienating players, and he's also arrogant and opportunistic, despite never accomplishing anything of merit as an NFL head coach.
Outside of all that, he's just swell otherwise.
I'm as down on Shurmur as anyone on this board. But the next time Gase does something with a QB like Shurmur did with Case Keenum in 2017 will be the first time.
Constant turnover is a nightmare and totally impedes success. IF IF IF either of these guys has it in them to become good coaches of a good team they have to skin their knees, take their lumps and learn as they go and grow with the team. I don't love it, I think SHurmur should go but I get the idea of letting them see if they can right this thing and not reboot every 2 years.
So you think Shurmur can change his ways and turn into a winning hc? He just needs time, right? Right?
RE: It is worth quoting Shurmur's record in Cleveland Â
Because he said he learned from the mistakes he made while coaching there. There's no evidence that is true however as he continues to make similar mistakes he made there. In fact one could even potentially argue he did a better job coaching there than he has here so far. A thought that is impossible to even fathom.
If you assume he had an awful roster there, and an awful roster here - then you can reach the conclusion that he's a lousy coach, since the results were basically the same (worse here thus far). If either location had some talent or if he did noticably better in one of the stops you might be able to draw other conclusions.
RE: I think deciding to keep Gase has to do with the new GM Â
They just brought him over right before training camp started and he's friends with Gase. The thing is if Gase was out there and available and you let Joe Douglas (the new GM) hire his own coach...he'd probably have hired Gase.
My guess is the owner decided they say they will work well together and have the same opinions on things so lets give both of them an offseason together to see what happens in 2020.
I agree - not that I think Gase is any great shakes, but the coach recommended the GM and they have a relationship, in this case given the roster they inherited predated both of them you can realistically give them a shot. That, and Darnold going into yet another new system only 4 years into his career wouldn't do him any favors.
If it were me, though - I'd have both of them on a short leash. If they didn't show some signs of improvement, or worse, if they pulled a Giants and actually regressed, I'd consider flushing the whole tandem right down the drain.
Do these owners, as wealthy as they are, simply not want to pay these guys out when firing them so they opt to keep them instead?
Do these owners, as wealthy as they are, simply not want to pay these guys out when firing them so they opt to keep them instead?
I have asked this as well and the only response I saw was "absolutely no bearing". I think with Mara it is a consideration. Firing Shumur is probably a 25 million plus expense with all the assistants. I know Mara is the "owner" but I thought Wellington had 11 kids. Aren't they each a owner as well?
My guess is the owner decided they say they will work well together and have the same opinions on things so lets give both of them an offseason together to see what happens in 2020.
We need to stop quoting what Shurmur's record was in Cleveland (i.e. career coaching totals) for 2 reasons:
1. They hired him knowing that record.
2. The circumstances in Cleveland were horrific at the time he was there, and I don't believe anyone was going to win in that situation.
I am more concerned about his 7-19 record with the Giants, a record that will probably be dramatically worse by season's end. That would be enough evidence that it's time to move on from him.
BTW, I liked the hire of Shurmur at the time, and going into this season supported him. I now believe he's had the chance to show what he can do, but it's probably best to cut bait now so Jones can have the next 3-10 years in one system and coach.
1. They hired him knowing that record.
2. The circumstances in Cleveland were horrific at the time he was there, and I don't believe anyone was going to win in that situation.
1. His Browns record is part of his head coaching career. It's fair game, and it was a valid concern many had when the Giants hired him. Shurmur demonstrated in Cleveland that he couldn't improve a bad situation. So...the Giants hire him to improve their bad situation?
2. Were the "horrific circumstances" in Cleveland the reason for the terrible game/clock management skills he exhibited over those two seasons? The 2011-2012 Browns didn't lose a lot more than they won solely because of a dearth in roster talent. Shurmur being in-over-his-head was a big part of it, too. He didn't coach up the players he had, and he didn't put them in game situations that would keep them competitive.
Every year in Miami he found a way to compete against the Pats with far inferior talent.. I don't think he is half as bad as PS..
Gase is soundly criticized because he's never once developed an NFL quarterback to overachieve, despite some odd perception of being a "QB guru." His teams don't just lose a lot, but get blown out a lot. He has basically admitted that his focus is on his passing offense, despite being a head coach. He has a history of alienating players, and he's also arrogant and opportunistic, despite never accomplishing anything of merit as an NFL head coach.
Outside of all that, he's just swell otherwise.
I'm as down on Shurmur as anyone on this board. But the next time Gase does something with a QB like Shurmur did with Case Keenum in 2017 will be the first time.
So you think Shurmur can change his ways and turn into a winning hc? He just needs time, right? Right?
If you assume he had an awful roster there, and an awful roster here - then you can reach the conclusion that he's a lousy coach, since the results were basically the same (worse here thus far). If either location had some talent or if he did noticably better in one of the stops you might be able to draw other conclusions.
My guess is the owner decided they say they will work well together and have the same opinions on things so lets give both of them an offseason together to see what happens in 2020.
I agree - not that I think Gase is any great shakes, but the coach recommended the GM and they have a relationship, in this case given the roster they inherited predated both of them you can realistically give them a shot. That, and Darnold going into yet another new system only 4 years into his career wouldn't do him any favors.
If it were me, though - I'd have both of them on a short leash. If they didn't show some signs of improvement, or worse, if they pulled a Giants and actually regressed, I'd consider flushing the whole tandem right down the drain.